The New Age (Jordan Oliver)

darqDean wrote: I believe the issue of Jordan Oliver with respect to Symphonic is now concluded and further discussion along those lines is pointless.   If he or The New Age Neptuned album needs to be assessed by more than one of the other Genre teams then I suggest either the Band Submission or Site Monitor Team should take over the 'management' of this submission.

I have hidden a post in this thread for infringing forum rules in quoting from a Private Message:

Ivan, you've known me for almost two years, so I hope you don't believe for a second that I would do anything in order to disrespect you or your work. I only suggested Alain he contact another team - as I would have done with anyone else. I PM'd him in order to avoid the discussion turning into an argument. Do you really think that, if I had anything to hide, I would have admitted so readily to having contacted him?

I repeat, I told him to contact the Xover or Eclectic team in order to get the artist accepted in one of those subs, not in Symphonic. I thought it was clear, but perhaps I've become unable to make myself understood.

OK, the person who told him to submit Oliver to another team was me... So, unfortunately, it is not a case of being a man! Obviously, I hope it is clear that my advice wasn't based on any desire to put Ivan or his team down. Having been here for a long time, I know the inner workings of several teams, and I knew what was coming - that is, an argument, with unpleasant words thrown around, and the Admins being forced to take action.

That said, it has happened in other teams too that a suggestion from some member was rejected without appeal, and the person who made the suggestion took offense to that. This is why I took the liberty of contacting Alain myself and telling him to try with another team. Seen as there are people who believe that this artist should be included in our DB, I don't see why he shouldn't get a second or third chance.

Sorry for not having 'been a man' earlier... I go to bed very early in the evening, since these past few days I haven't felt my best. I just want it to be clear that there was NO malicious intent whatsoever, on the contrary.

The Rock wrote: bhikkhu wrote: Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously. That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.   Sorry for the elitists accusations,but I still beleive that there are many of those polluting the prog world presently.They hae this idea that THEY know what is and what is not this and that,and that THEY decide what is or isn't prog.   As long as I will plug on to PA and read reviews of  A hard Day's night and Killers by Iron Maiden,I will always find it paradoxal all this reticence and hostility towards an album that is 100% proggier than those-and I could mention many many other bands and albums that are far less prog that Neptued by The New Age. Forget the Jordan Oliver moniker and at least consider the act as The New Age as it was originally released in 1982.

I have my own issues with seeing the same well known things getting discussed to death, but that has nothing to do with this particular case. And the only hostility I see is coming from you.

E-Dub wrote: The Rock wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The Rock wrote:   And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.   Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:   Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course. Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely. The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track Just as a reference I did a search in all known Prog sites and he's not mentioned in anyone, something odd for an album released his album 26 years ago, but had access to a release done Live in Venezuela. Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.   Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.   The short links in the page don't give a clear idea of his music, if you don't have a legal download site, please go to CD Baby, their samples are more descriptive, I would dare to say that Prog Related if too much would be my choice.   Iván   I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???   Prog related?   Come on!!!   That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.   To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR? Pul-eeeze! The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.   Now when I read reviews of A hard Days Night,Maiden's Killers and Queen's Flash Gordon on a PROG site and I compare these to Jordan Oliver's Neptune,I think I may be biased but Neptuned is far more than just prog related.SYMPHO PROG.     America's answer to YAWN-ni, in my opinion. That aside, he doesn't belong in symph. Ivan's a team member of mine and you're going to have to do a better job with your rebuttals because he will shred you. He's tenacious at researching and will back it up with pinpoint accuracy. To assume that he'll not look at it from different angles to see if an artist will fit is a premature judgment on your part. Ivan just doesn't operate like that. Prog-related gets my vote. E

bhikkhu wrote: Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously. That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously.

That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

The Rock wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The Rock wrote:   And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.   Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:   Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course. Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely. The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track Just as a reference I did a search in all known Prog sites and he's not mentioned in anyone, something odd for an album released his album 26 years ago, but had access to a release done Live in Venezuela. Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.   Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.   The short links in the page don't give a clear idea of his music, if you don't have a legal download site, please go to CD Baby, their samples are more descriptive, I would dare to say that Prog Related if too much would be my choice.   Iván   I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???   Prog related?   Come on!!!   That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.   To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR? Pul-eeeze! The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.   Now when I read reviews of A hard Days Night,Maiden's Killers and Queen's Flash Gordon on a PROG site and I compare these to Jordan Oliver's Neptune,I think I may be biased but Neptuned is far more than just prog related.SYMPHO PROG.

America's answer to YAWN-ni, in my opinion. That aside, he doesn't belong in symph.

Ivan's a team member of mine and you're going to have to do a better job with your rebuttals because he will shred you. He's tenacious at researching and will back it up with pinpoint accuracy. To assume that he'll not look at it from different angles to see if an artist will fit is a premature judgment on your part. Ivan just doesn't operate like that.

Prog-related gets my vote.

E


Edited by E-Dub - February 22 2008 at 20:15

The point is clear here: Jordan Oliver is not, and will not, be accepted for inclusion in Symphonic, so this discussion ends here.  It should have ended earlier, given that I had to hide one post just now.
Forum members are free to express your opinions on this forum, but personal attacks and setting up people (both regular members and collaborators) against each other is not tolerated. Please be constructive and accept proper arguments, and the fact that we all have our own opinions.

According to standard procedures, other teams may consider the suggestion. They are hereby invited to do so. It may not be to everybody's liking, but this is how ProgArchives works.

Closing note: if the tone of discussion becomes similar to what has gone before - this thread will be closed.






Edited by Angelo - February 22 2008 at 18:15