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Trickster F. View Drop Down
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 14:07
I don't know, Superztar and Symptom Of The Universe from the Sabotage album seem like a definition of Progressive Metal atmospheres and fundamentels a decade before it was actually born!
 
 -- Ivan
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 13:35
^ if such a thing as proto-prog-metal exists, Black Sabbath don't qualify for it. At the very most they are proto-metal ... prog metal came to be in the 80s, and a typical proto-prog-metal album could be Master of Puppets ... 
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Points: 6699 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 13:06
My personal opinion on Black Sabbath being progressive: ABSOLUTELY NOT!  I'm not going to dispute Sabbath was innovative and important to developing musical genres we know today. This however does not make a band progressive.  Should we add Miles Davis because his type of jazz was smoother and slower that lead to a new division of jazz? 
 
About Proto-Prog Metal
I don't think such a thing really exists, but with few exceptions.  There are metal bands that have influences on progressive metal bands that's for sure, but I don't think many were the reason for the development of progressive metal.  Metallica, Megadeth, and Iron Maiden would be possible exceptions to this.  Those three bands were actually making music with a progressive element.  Look at Metallica's epic instrumental tracks, look at Megadeth's virtuosity (from all members), and look at Maiden's variant career.  Black Sabbath career didn't have epic instrumental tracks, didn't have virtuoso musicians, and didn't have a very variant career.  Not everything Sabbath did was the same, but nothing really broke away from the original formula.
 
We need Mike's genre by album classification to sort out a mess like proto-prog metal.  We could say an album like The World Needs a Hero or Youthanasia by Megadeth is proto-prog metal, but we definatley can't say that about Killing Is My Buisness. 

"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Trickster F. View Drop Down
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 12:37
I agree with putting Sabbath to Prog-Related actually. SBS, Sabotage, Technical Ecstacy and Never Say Die are quite proggy albums in their discography, and so can be called Master Of Reality too.
 
I'm not the one making a decision though, and I wasn't there during their Prog-Metal addition.
 
 -- Ivan
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Points: 2664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2006 at 06:46
They'll probably get terminated in the next collaborator poolLOL
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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 22 2006 at 09:38
I think in the future Black Sabbath will have to be at least considered Prog Related.
Apart from being the pioneers of heavy metal they have put the metal into Prog Metal .
Some stuff on Never say Die is quite progressive like the song Airdance.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:53
Originally posted by Tristan Mulders Tristan Mulders wrote:

Still not thinking about a topic or something else to let people know what bands are rejected, before they decide to post about that band??? Embarrassed

Would save us a lot of time Approve

Not sure it would...wouldn't every trjection just start far morre "outreaged" threads?
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Tristan Mulders View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 18:48
Still not thinking about a topic or something else to let people know what bands are rejected, before they decide to post about that band??? Embarrassed

Would save us a lot of time Approve


Edited by Tristan Mulders - May 20 2006 at 18:49
Interested in my reviews?
You can find them HERE

"...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..."
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:32
^ LOL I listened to it and played it countless times. Still I don't think it's prog. Tempo changes don't make a prog song (IMO, as always).
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Points: 4309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:19
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

What's so progressive about War Pigs? It's one of the most simple songs that I ever heard (and played).
 
NO !! Obvioulsy not !! "War Pigs" IS a prog song, it has tempo changes and a prog feeling, just listen to the amazing istrumental part, and you'll realise that song IS prog ...
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Points: 2664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:08
I'd like to see Sabbath in as well, but we must accept the decision made, Ozzy would probably swear his guts out if he saw them hereLOL
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Points: 2664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 16:05
I wonder what Ozzy would say if someone asked him or the rest of Sabbath if they were Prog
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 11:03
Of course War Pigs can be regarded as somewhat genre defining (Stoner Rock) - but that's about it. It's basically one great, simplistic riff, another cool (but not as majestic) one, and a blues solo.
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Points: 606 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 10:44
WOW...MELODY CHANGES impressive

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Points: 13536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 09:02
Melody changes, singing almost a capella   in parts of it...   Hmmm...   Maybe you're right...
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 08:53
What's so progressive about War Pigs? It's one of the most simple songs that I ever heard (and played).
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Points: 13536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 08:48
Well, the song Paranoid isn't too proggy indeed . But if any band had made a song smilar to, let's say, War Pigs or Spiral Architect...
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 08:42
^ that would be stretching it quite a bit. Maybe we'll add some proto prog metal stuff, but personally I would like to wait until we have genre per album. So only selected albums of these artists would be called "proto-prog" or "prog-related", which would make things much more clear. That's also the problem with the current prog-related bands - many people claim that band XYZ should be here because they are similar to what Deep Purple did in the 70s. But DP are here because of their early albums of the 60s ...
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 08:37
Think about what would happen if Black Sabbath were added. Where should it end? The next band would be Steppenwolf, who made a song similar to Paranoid ... LOL
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Points: 13536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 08:31

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Many things are progressive - although they're not prog. We have to find a balance between progressiveness and "prog" as a genre. I'd be more than happy to add Metallica, Megadeth, Diamond Head - and maybe even Black Sabbath, if "prog" was all about innovation and pioneering new genres.


I expected such a reply...   
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski
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