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AtLossForWords 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 11 2005
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Points: 6699
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 Posted: January 03 2006 at 16:01 |
 W.Chuck wrote:
Prog Metal developed from metal bands like IRON MAIDEN, PANTERA, KISS blended with the complexity of the old prog-bands [Every band on that list (not deep purple)]! |
Pantera is anti-progressive. I don't see elements of Pantera in Progressive Metal. Iron Maiden had a small impact on the more metal side of Progressive Metal and the Prog-Power Metal. Kiss, what is remotely progressive about Kiss?
I think Progressive Metal takes a lot of influence from Rush, King Crimson, along with some Yes. Progressive Metal bands have more Progressive influence than Metal influence.
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls."
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Certif1ed
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Posted: January 03 2006 at 15:48 |
W.Chuck wrote:
Prog Metal developed from metal bands like IRON MAIDEN, PANTERA, KISS blended with the complexity of the old prog-bands [Every band on that list (not deep purple)]! |
Actually, Prog Metal has very little to do with the old Prog Bands - that much is obvious, surely. Where are the Jethro Tull influences? Genesis? Gentle Giant? ELP?
And I'd say that Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Diamond Head and Metallica originated far more of the style than either Pantera or Kiss. Kiss, particularly, contributed a spectacularly small amount towards progressive metal, IMHO.
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W.Chuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005
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Points: 606
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Posted: January 02 2006 at 18:16 |
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Prog Metal developed from metal bands like IRON MAIDEN, PANTERA, KISS blended with the complexity of the old prog-bands [Every band on that list (not deep purple)]!
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Lateralus_66
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Joined: May 03 2005
Location: Fiji
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Points: 118
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Posted: January 02 2006 at 00:36 |
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King Crimson are the seeders. However, nowadays many bands are very influenced by them, plus Pink Floyd.
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"A mind is like a parachute. It does'nt work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa
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Bj-1
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 23:10 |
Ed_The_Dead wrote:
These band did NOT invent prog metal!
Prog metal evolved from music by Watchtower, Fates Warning and Queensryche!!
But If I had to pick one that influenced progressive metal bands the most then that would be King Crimson...
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Agree!
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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R_DeNIRO
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005
Location: Spain
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Points: 431
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 23:09 |
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I think that three are the bands really important to the cretation of Prog-Metal: Rush, Metallica and Iron Maiden.
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We were always be much human than we whish to be.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16916
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 22:12 |
Your opinion is good as any, except the fact that a lot of Uriah Heep's stuff weren't really responsible for the birth of Prog Metal. I look at the earlier Prog Metal bands like Watchtower, Queensryche, Fates Warning and (even Dream Theater). I don't believe you really can associate a band so un-Metal like with the "creation" of Prog Metal. 
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micky
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 22:06 |
King of Loss wrote:
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Uriah Heep, Prog Metal? That's funnier than calling Symphony X "Prog" metal... 
Prog Metal nowadays sounds about 10000000000000000000 x more different than Uriah Sheep
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nowadays..... what is your point? I believe we
are talking about the founding fathers of prog metal. I'd
hope, if that stuff is to be considered prog, that it would share
some part of what prog is about, which is about not sitting on your ass
and expanding the boundries and moving forward.
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Uriah Heep is no more than a plain old Hard Rock band, I wouldn't even call them Prog.
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hmm, your opinion I guess. For the sake of
this PA's considers them such and other references to them being prog
abound on the net, so I guess an explanation as to why you think they
aren't prog might be in order. I'll spare you the standard
question as to if you have actually own a Uriah Heep album or
not, that could be construed as insultiing. So I'll assume
you have, and can answer that question.
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I don't own any Uriah Heep albums, but I have downloaded them.
Overall, they are not very heavy at all enough to be considered Metal
by a long shot, I mean, bands like Spock's Beard are heavier than them
and not even considered Metal, then why consider them Prog Metal?
Actually, I think they do have some Prog tints and dashes in between,
but not enough to be considered full-blown Prog. |
not to come across as an ass (if not already too late hahahah) but I
think you are missing the point. I'm not claiming they were metal, all
I'm saying is they could be considered as a founding father of prog
metal that took elements of metal and fused them with prog. Their
lyrical themes are Picture perfect examples of the metal genre, yet
they have some of the classic prog signatures... grandiose epics, and
excellent keyboardist, an up front and aggressive bassist in the grand
prog tradition. Not to mention, I believe I have read in the past
of Uriah Heeps influence on Rush, who generally seem to get credited
for prog-metal. I know Uriah Heep sound nothiing like what
prog-metal sounds like today, it progressed and evolved but the origens
have to be traced somewhere and I think Uriah Heep is as good as
any, and worth bringing up. The more so since, in this poll, an option
was ..... Gentle Giant.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16916
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 21:10 |
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Uriah Heep, Prog Metal? That's funnier than calling Symphony X "Prog" metal...
Prog Metal nowadays sounds about 10000000000000000000 x more different than Uriah Sheep
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nowadays..... what is your point? I believe we are talking about the founding fathers of prog metal. I'd hope, if that stuff is to be considered prog, that it would share some part of what prog is about, which is about not sitting on your ass and expanding the boundries and moving forward.
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Uriah Heep is no more than a plain old Hard Rock band, I wouldn't even call them Prog.
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hmm, your opinion I guess. For the sake of this PA's considers them such and other references to them being prog abound on the net, so I guess an explanation as to why you think they aren't prog might be in order. I'll spare you the standard question as to if you have actually own a Uriah Heep album or not, that could be construed as insultiing. So I'll assume you have, and can answer that question.
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I don't own any Uriah Heep albums, but I have downloaded them. Overall, they are not very heavy at all enough to be considered Metal by a long shot, I mean, bands like Spock's Beard are heavier than them and not even considered Metal, then why consider them Prog Metal? Actually, I think they do have some Prog tints and dashes in between, but not enough to be considered full-blown Prog.
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micky
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 21:03 |
King of Loss wrote:
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Uriah Heep, Prog Metal? That's funnier than calling Symphony X "Prog" metal...
Prog Metal nowadays sounds about 10000000000000000000 x more different than Uriah Sheep
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nowadays..... what is your point? I believe we
are talking about the founding fathers of prog metal. I'd
hope, if that stuff is to be considered prog, that it would share
some part of what prog is about, which is about not sitting on your ass
and expanding the boundries and moving forward.
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Uriah Heep is no more than a plain old Hard Rock band, I wouldn't even call them Prog. |
hmm, your opinion I guess. For the sake of this PA's considers
them such and other references to them being prog abound on the net, so
I guess an explanation as to why you think they aren't prog might be in
order. I'll spare you the standard question as to if you have
actually own a Uriah Heep album or not, that could be construed
as insultiing. So I'll assume you have, and can answer that
question.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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transend
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 876
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:44 |
Jeez..
i would have said Iron Maiden or Rush...
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:43 |
Catholic Flame wrote:
micky wrote:
Catholic Flame wrote:
The true father of Prog Metal is Iron Butterfly.
You can't tell me that In-a-gadda-da-vida isn't the starting point. 18
minutes of long keyboard, guitar and drum solos. Shifting and changing
meters and moods. It is the blueprint for everything that comes after!
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hmmm interesting I guess I will hahahahh . sounds like like what you
have described is a psychedelic jam session hahahah. I've heard
it of course and long extended jam sessions like that are more
indicative of blues based rock and roll which is what exactly I believe
prog was trying to get away from, proto-prog perhaps, but
metal?...... more a psychedelic classic than metal.
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I thought you said you had listened to it.
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of course I've heard it, I've owned copies on LPl and CD for 20+
years. It's a classic album. Obviously you feel it is prog metal,
I don't. It is surely not prog, and is borderline metal. I don't
normally quote other people's thoughts, but this says it better than I
could on short notice considering I haven't given much thought to Iron
Butterfly since I was a teenager...
"
Iron Butterfly are often said to be one of the first pioneers of 'heavy
metal'. This is certainly not true: Iron Butterfly never were a huge influence
on later metallic bands, and their sound, while heavy enough, was never
really similar to, say, Led Zeppelin (although the names of both bands
fit the same pattern: the contrast between 'heaviness' - iron, lead - and
'flying, lightweightness' - butterfly, zeppelin). Not true, that is, if
one limits the term 'heavy metal' to the kind of heavy riff tunes played
in unison with the bass, etc., etc., developed by Led Zep and Black Sabbath:
the bands that inspired generations of metal musicians that came after
them. This is the main difference: Led Zeppelin and Sabbath, who themselves
took their inspiration from Cream and the Who, were followed; Iron Butterfly,
who drew their inspiration from seemingly nowhere, were not, and the kind
of 'acid hard rock' that they dabbled in was never repeated."
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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terramystic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 781
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:29 |
Rockin' Chair wrote:
I would say RUSH
However I voted K.C. |
I agree!
These two were the first and the most similar to todays prog metal.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16916
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 18:58 |
ANDREW wrote:
URIAH HEEP! |
How are they Metal, if at all???? 
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ANDREW
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 3064
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 18:53 |
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URIAH HEEP!
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:55 |
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From the list IMO the most influential for prog-metal is King Crimson but I wouldn't say that they are "fathers" of the genre...
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Guigo
~~~~~~
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 08 2004
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:40 |
Catholic Flame wrote:
The true father of Prog Metal is Iron Butterfly. You can't tell me that In-a-gadda-da-vida isn't the starting point. 18 minutes of long keyboard, guitar and drum solos. Shifting and changing meters and moods. It is the blueprint for everything that comes after! |
Just because Slayer covered it don't mean it's metal...
It's just a simple song with a long psychedelic jam - nothing more or less.
There were plenty of these before IAGDV, one example being Love's "Revelations" - the B side of Da Capo, released one year earlier. Iron Butterfly were no heavier than the Doors at their heaviest, and in no way "as metal" as Blue Cheer or Spooky Tooth.
Heavy metal is more structured, and typically does not have themes of love, which IAGDV does. The riffs of heavy metal also typically avoid the "swing" that is inherent in the main riff of IAGDV.
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Rockin' Chair
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 153
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:05 |
I would say RUSH
However I voted K.C.
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Catholic Flame
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 295
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 14:15 |
micky wrote:
Catholic Flame wrote:
The true father of Prog Metal is Iron Butterfly.
You can't tell me that In-a-gadda-da-vida isn't the starting point. 18
minutes of long keyboard, guitar and drum solos. Shifting and changing
meters and moods. It is the blueprint for everything that comes after!
|
hmmm interesting I guess I will hahahahh . sounds like like what you
have described is a psychedelic jam session hahahah. I've heard
it of course and long extended jam sessions like that are more
indicative of blues based rock and roll which is what exactly I believe
prog was trying to get away from, proto-prog perhaps, but
metal?...... more a psychedelic classic than metal.
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I thought you said you had listened to it.
Edited by Catholic Flame
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“Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.”
~Jack Kerouac
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16916
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Posted: January 01 2006 at 14:00 |
micky wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
Uriah Heep, Prog Metal? That's funnier than calling Symphony X "Prog" metal...
Prog Metal nowadays sounds about 10000000000000000000 x more different than Uriah Sheep
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nowadays..... what is your point? I believe we are talking about the founding fathers of prog metal. I'd hope, if that stuff is to be considered prog, that it would share some part of what prog is about, which is about not sitting on your ass and expanding the boundries and moving forward.
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Uriah Heep is no more than a plain old Hard Rock band, I wouldn't even call them Prog.
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