Fathers Of Prog Metal
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16800
Printed Date: March 06 2025 at 11:52
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Topic: Fathers Of Prog Metal
Posted By: Yito
Subject: Fathers Of Prog Metal
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:29
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Yes - Heart Of The Sunrise, South Side Of The Skies, Machine Messiah e.t.c Genesis - The Knife, The Return Of The Giant Hogweed, Firth Of Fifth e.t.c King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man, The Great Deceiver, Red e.t.c Gentle Giant - Why Not?, Wreck, Giant e.t.c Kansas - Carry On Wayward Son, The Wall, Magnum Opus e.t.c Deep Purple - Child In Time, Pictures Of Home, Burn e.t.c Comments of oder bands are welcome ------------- Psalm 96 1 Sing to the LORD a new song; sing to the LORD, all the earth. |
Replies:
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:30
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King Crimson But what do they have to do with prog metal ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:40
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These band did NOT invent prog metal! Prog metal evolved from music by Watchtower, Fates Warning and Queensryche!! But If I had to pick one that influenced progressive metal bands the most then that would be King Crimson... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:44
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have seen Uriah Heep mentioned as a founding father of prog metal. Agree or disagree?
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:47
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I see fathers as those that actually created the genre... So why aren't Uriah Heep classified under prog metal? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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micky wrote:Posted By: Nazgul
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:52
Voivod 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:53
a mistake, perhaps? Why isn't ELO included on this site... anywhere... including even under the 'big umbrella' of prog related. Just because they aren't 'classified' as prog metal, doesn't mean that they weren't, or may have been, a father of it. Some bands are rather hard to classify, Gentle Giant for example. Symphonic?... but where else to put them. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:55
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I think that Rush are the Fathers of Prog Metal. Early King Crimson are heavy at times, but their songwriting is not very similar to common prog metal structures ... combine Rush with Judas Priest, and you get an idea of Proto Prog Metal. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 11:58
isn't it true that Rush's style was influenced by what Uriah Heep had been doing years earlier? Rush may have popularized it, but were they the fathers of it? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 12:08
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The thing is,I find Deep Purple and Uriah Heep to be very similar,yet they both are classified under different sub-genres.Heep=Art Rock and DP=Proto prog. As for the question,the roots of prog-metal goes back to the early 70's:Heep,DP,Zeppelin,UFO,Rainbow,Whitesnake,Sabbath,Mountai n,Thin Lizzy,and yes,the 72-74 Crimson. ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 12:22
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It has to be King Crimson....and I dont see Yes, Gentle Giant or Genesis anywhere near metal...maybe Jethro Tull! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 12:28
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Of that list, Deep Purple, obviously. However, bands like Judas Priest, (Dio) Rainbow, (Dio) Black Sabbath, Diamond Head and Metallica (not to mention a host of NWOBHM bands for whom progressive was just a part of the whole thing) did far more to progress metal as a genre before Queensryche came along and claimed the mantle. P.S. ...is that a touch of Marillion I hear on "The Warning"? "Punch, punch, punch..."
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 12:52
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IMO Rush, Deep Purple, King Crimson have influenced prog metal from a prog side of view
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 13:03
21st Century Schizoid Man... it is the root of Metal ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: ChadFromCanada
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 13:17
That's a reasonable statement. A lot of their stuff is "heavy metal". |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 13:29
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I agree albums like A Farewell to Kings and Moving Pictures have a lot of influence on Progressive Metal. I could easily see a band like Dream Theater writing a song very similar to YYZ. Primus even played YYZ live, well more like half of it, but hey they tried. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 13:37
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Out of the bands in your list,definitely King Crimson. Including those other bands in a poll that states..."fathers of prog metal" is laughable. EDIT-I totally missed Deep Purple in the list of choices...gotta change my vote to DP. -------------  |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: December 31 2005 at 13:41
Out of that list, King Crimson of course, but where is the all mighty Rush? 
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 00:56
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Since the question says "Which of this bands do you like the most?", I voted Yes ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 01:02
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Deep Purple are the only metal band on that list, and they definately had some progressive aspects so they win easily. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 12:57
what's more heavy metal than the occult, sci-fi, D&D themes that both groups shared. Add that Uriah Heep were prog...... hense prog metal. Add in Uriah Heep predated Rush.... hense a father of prog metal. More so than Deep Purple who had the heavy nature but not the defining characteristic IMO of metal which are dark brooding themes and lyrics. More so than Sabbath... who sure as hell were metal but without a shred of prog in them IMO. King Crimson... close but no cigar, I just don't equate them at all with metal, not in the early to mid 70's. Heaviness =/ metal alone. Just my two cents. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 13:01
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Uriah Heep, Prog Metal? That's funnier than calling Symphony X "Prog" metal... Prog Metal nowadays sounds about 10000000000000000000 x more different than Uriah Sheep |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 13:05
nowadays..... what is your point? I believe we are talking about the founding fathers of prog metal. I'd hope, if that stuff is to be considered prog, that it would share some part of what prog is about, which is about not sitting on your ass and expanding the boundries and moving forward. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 13:13
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The true father of Prog Metal is Iron Butterfly. You can't tell me that In-a-gadda-da-vida isn't the starting point. 18 minutes of long keyboard, guitar and drum solos. Shifting and changing meters and moods. It is the blueprint for everything that comes after!
------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 13:53
hmmm interesting I guess I will hahahahh . sounds like like what you have described is a psychedelic jam session hahahah. I've heard it of course and long extended jam sessions like that are more indicative of blues based rock and roll which is what exactly I believe prog was trying to get away from, proto-prog perhaps, but metal?...... more a psychedelic classic than metal. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 14:00
Uriah Heep is no more than a plain old Hard Rock band, I wouldn't even call them Prog. |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 14:15
I thought you said you had listened to it. ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: Rockin' Chair
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:05
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I would say RUSH
However I voted K.C. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:40
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Just because Slayer covered it don't mean it's metal... It's just a simple song with a long psychedelic jam - nothing more or less. There were plenty of these before IAGDV, one example being Love's "Revelations" - the B side of Da Capo, released one year earlier. Iron Butterfly were no heavier than the Doors at their heaviest, and in no way "as metal" as Blue Cheer or Spooky Tooth. Heavy metal is more structured, and typically does not have themes of love, which IAGDV does. The riffs of heavy metal also typically avoid the "swing" that is inherent in the main riff of IAGDV. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 16:55
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From the list IMO the most influential for prog-metal is King Crimson but I wouldn't say that they are "fathers" of the genre... ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 18:53
| URIAH HEEP! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 18:58
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How are they Metal, if at all???? |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:29
I agree!  These two were the first and the most similar to todays prog metal. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:43
of course I've heard it, I've owned copies on LPl and CD for 20+ years. It's a classic album. Obviously you feel it is prog metal, I don't. It is surely not prog, and is borderline metal. I don't normally quote other people's thoughts, but this says it better than I could on short notice considering I haven't given much thought to Iron Butterfly since I was a teenager... " Iron Butterfly are often said to be one of the first pioneers of 'heavy metal'. This is certainly not true: Iron Butterfly never were a huge influence on later metallic bands, and their sound, while heavy enough, was never really similar to, say, Led Zeppelin (although the names of both bands fit the same pattern: the contrast between 'heaviness' - iron, lead - and 'flying, lightweightness' - butterfly, zeppelin). Not true, that is, if one limits the term 'heavy metal' to the kind of heavy riff tunes played in unison with the bass, etc., etc., developed by Led Zep and Black Sabbath: the bands that inspired generations of metal musicians that came after them. This is the main difference: Led Zeppelin and Sabbath, who themselves took their inspiration from Cream and the Who, were followed; Iron Butterfly, who drew their inspiration from seemingly nowhere, were not, and the kind of 'acid hard rock' that they dabbled in was never repeated." ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: transend
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 19:44
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Jeez.. i would have said Iron Maiden or Rush... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 21:03
hmm, your opinion I guess. For the sake of this PA's considers them such and other references to them being prog abound on the net, so I guess an explanation as to why you think they aren't prog might be in order. I'll spare you the standard question as to if you have actually own a Uriah Heep album or not, that could be construed as insultiing. So I'll assume you have, and can answer that question. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 21:10
I don't own any Uriah Heep albums, but I have downloaded them. Overall, they are not very heavy at all enough to be considered Metal by a long shot, I mean, bands like Spock's Beard are heavier than them and not even considered Metal, then why consider them Prog Metal? Actually, I think they do have some Prog tints and dashes in between, but not enough to be considered full-blown Prog. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 22:06
not to come across as an ass (if not already too late hahahah) but I think you are missing the point. I'm not claiming they were metal, all I'm saying is they could be considered as a founding father of prog metal that took elements of metal and fused them with prog. Their lyrical themes are Picture perfect examples of the metal genre, yet they have some of the classic prog signatures... grandiose epics, and excellent keyboardist, an up front and aggressive bassist in the grand prog tradition. Not to mention, I believe I have read in the past of Uriah Heeps influence on Rush, who generally seem to get credited for prog-metal. I know Uriah Heep sound nothiing like what prog-metal sounds like today, it progressed and evolved but the origens have to be traced somewhere and I think Uriah Heep is as good as any, and worth bringing up. The more so since, in this poll, an option was ..... Gentle Giant.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 22:12
Your opinion is good as any, except the fact that a lot of Uriah Heep's stuff weren't really responsible for the birth of Prog Metal. I look at the earlier Prog Metal bands like Watchtower, Queensryche, Fates Warning and (even Dream Theater). I don't believe you really can associate a band so un-Metal like with the "creation" of Prog Metal. 
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Posted By: R_DeNIRO
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 23:09
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I think that three are the bands really important to the cretation of Prog-Metal: Rush, Metallica and Iron Maiden. ------------- We were always be much human than we whish to be. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: January 01 2006 at 23:10
Agree! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Lateralus_66
Date Posted: January 02 2006 at 00:36
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King Crimson are the seeders. However, nowadays many bands are very influenced by them, plus Pink Floyd.
------------- "A mind is like a parachute. It does'nt work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa |
Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: January 02 2006 at 18:16
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Prog Metal developed from metal bands like IRON MAIDEN, PANTERA, KISS blended with the complexity of the old prog-bands [Every band on that list (not deep purple)]! ------------- 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 03 2006 at 15:48
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Actually, Prog Metal has very little to do with the old Prog Bands - that much is obvious, surely. Where are the Jethro Tull influences? Genesis? Gentle Giant? ELP? And I'd say that Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Diamond Head and Metallica originated far more of the style than either Pantera or Kiss. Kiss, particularly, contributed a spectacularly small amount towards progressive metal, IMHO. |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: January 03 2006 at 16:01
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Pantera is anti-progressive. I don't see elements of Pantera in Progressive Metal. Iron Maiden had a small impact on the more metal side of Progressive Metal and the Prog-Power Metal. Kiss, what is remotely progressive about Kiss? I think Progressive Metal takes a lot of influence from Rush, King Crimson, along with some Yes. Progressive Metal bands have more Progressive influence than Metal influence. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: January 03 2006 at 16:40
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BLACK SABBATH created prog metal!!!! just listen to Sabotage or Technical Ecstasy. Heavily experimental with extensive use of keyboards in new and different ways. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: terramystic
Date Posted: January 03 2006 at 18:09
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Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: January 03 2006 at 20:14
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BLUE OYSTER CULT ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 12:48
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I said a blend! Pantera are on of Symphony X's Influences and Kiss is a influence of many prog-metal bands
I just named a few metal-bands and blended with the characteristics of prog rock. And RUSH is also a father of prog-metal. It depends on the prog-metal band...there are so many different styles, so every style direction has different influences. -------------
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Posted By: Flip_Stone
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 12:56
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Weird post. None of those classic bands seem to be related to prog. metal. Probably more likely: Iron Maiden, Mercyful Fate, and Dream Theater (bands that started in the 80's).
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 13:29
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King Crimson started that heavy sound especially on Lark's Tongues. LTIA
Part 2 sounds like it could be a Dream Theater instrumental (though Dream Theater's would probably be a lot faster.) Rush than started to amplify a metal-type progressive sound. But it's King Crimson that started it in my book. EDIT: But why does this poll say which of these bands do you like better? That's probably why Genesis has 20 votes. They have no relation to prog metal whatsoever. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 13:31
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Kansas also wrote some full out prog metal songs back in the day such as
Lightning's Hand. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 13:36
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Well maybe Peter Gabriel's voice had some influence had some influence on prog-metal bands, but that's the only things that could maybe have influenced prog-metal. -------------
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Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 17:07
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do I need to say anything else? ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: Prog_Bassist
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 17:35
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you definetly should have included rush in this poll.
RUSH. but out of the listed ones I'd say King Crimson. ------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhuxaD8NzaY |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 17:36
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I agree about Rush. But I don't think that Pantera are an influence. Pantera were influenced by Metallica, as were many prog metal bands. And Kiss ... sorry, don't see that. In my opinion the NWOBHM gave birth to what I call "Modern Metal" in the beginning/middle of the 80s. And the first prog metal bands emerged right during this time, so although possible it is not very likely that modern metal bands like Pantera influenced bands which were active at the same time. Needless to say that Dimebag surely influenced many guitarists regardless of genre ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: January 04 2006 at 17:40
| atomic rooster |
Posted By: Legoman
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 03:00
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Historically Deep Purple is the most influentual to metal but King Crimson definately sounds more metal sometimes. And... hahahah! Gentle Giant doesn't have a single vote... as it should be. :) |
Posted By: vogre
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 03:25
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If we look at prog-metal as Dream Theater a very big influence would be Yes and Rush. The first technical metal bands(i.e. Queensryche, Fates Warning, Voivod, Watchtower etc.) are influenced by obviously Rush. To answer the poll question : Which band is your favorite : King Crimson  |
Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 10:40
Just look at the influences of some prog-metal-bands/their members, as I said it depends on the kind of prog-metal! Bands like Evergrey have other influences than Pain of Salvation, etc. There are also new prog-metal bands which have other influences, so time is senseless, except you reduce your choice to the older rog-metal bands. And Pantera, I said it before..., Michael Romeo names than as an influence of him, especially on The Odyssey! -------------
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Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 11:15
Yeah but I feel that Crimson's Lark's Tongues in Aspic was the birth of prog metal. Lark's Tongues part 2 sounds similar to something Dream Theater would write (but a bit more interesting.) ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 11:41
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Sure. IMO these influences on the Odyssey - and also Train of Thought for that matter - can be traced back "through" Pantera to Metallica. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 11:44
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Incidentally: I don't think that any of the bands which were labelled "Heavy Metal" in the early 70s have much to do with Prog Metal specifically. Show me a prog metal band which sounds like Deep Purple, but not like any modern Metal band. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: W.Chuck
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 12:59
Metallica, too, I just noticed it. I listened to ENTER SANDMAN by Metallica and you can easily notice the similarities to Dream Theater's AS I AM. This question can't be really generalized, there are too many different bands and on every new album, taking influences of every band they like and this can be new bands as well! -------------
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 05 2006 at 16:37
Heh! It's not just Enter Sandman by Metallica that has *influenced* Prog Metal... or Dream Theater specifically... |