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Earendil 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 17 2008 Location: Indiana, USA Status: Offline Points: 1584 |
 Topic: A Beginner's Guide to Proto-ProgPosted: January 23 2011 at 19:09 |
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What I meant was, do you have the title of the partial prog from those 19th century composers? I'd like to give it a listen. |
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earlyprog
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Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: January 22 2011 at 11:27 |
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^Examples of "partial prog" songs are the intros, outros and mid-sections of Beatles (Lennon) songs like A Hard Days Night, Every Little Thing, I Feel Fine, Ticket To Ride and their mixing in of e.g. classical and polka: In My Life, Girl.
The Beach Boys also did it in California Girls, The Little Girl I Once Knew, Good Vibrations and Here Today.
- not full prog but they appear to be important stepping stones pre-Freak Out!.
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Earendil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2008 Location: Indiana, USA Status: Offline Points: 1584 |
Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:59 |
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Would you mind explaining how those first few composers have partial prog songs and what they are?
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earlyprog
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Posted: January 21 2011 at 08:48 |
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In terms of "partial prog songs" and number of artists, proto-prog peaked in 1967, see the table below. This was the essential year to the development of prog, both cross-over prog, prog folk, symphonic prog, space rock and other prog genres. The year after, artists decided to leave the genre (e.g. Rolling Stones, Byrds, Pretty Things, Cream) while others stayed or where attracted to realise the genre (Moody Blues, Traffic, Pink Floyd, The Nice, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull).
Proto-prog is the result of the ideation, conceptualization and development phases of prog - either on a song or an album basis - on either of the prog genres.
Please discuss the development of the first prog song within each of the prog genres, such as:
Proto-prog songs (on the example of Cross-Over Prog)
Ideation years: 1950's, 1960-1964 ("Not a second time" Beatles; "California Girls" Beach Boys; "From the Bottom of my Heart" Moody Blues; "The little Girl I once knew" Beach Boys)
Conceptualization: 1965 ("In My Life" Beatles)
Development: 1966-1967 (e.g. "Pet Sounds"; "Strawberry Fields Forever"; Beach Boys; Moody Blues; Nirvana)
Realization: "The Afternoon" (Moody Blues) ?
Space Rock
Ideation: electro-acoustic music (Ussachecsky)
Conceptualization: Joe Meek
Development: "The Lear Jet Song"; "C.T.A. - 102" (Byrds); "Third Stone from the Sun" (Jimi Hendrix); "I can see for Miles" The Who; "Flying" Beatles)
Realization: "Astronomy Domine" Pink Floyd.
Edited by earlyprog - January 22 2011 at 11:44 |
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earlyprog
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Posted: May 16 2010 at 07:28 |
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Thanks mate.
Accompanying analyses are initiated here on proto-prog's experiments with the harpsichord and mellotron, respectively:
I hope as additional threads are revealed that I will be able to gather the information in a sort of guide to proto-prog.
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
Posted: May 14 2010 at 09:50 |
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Exhaustive but helpful
Cheers
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earlyprog
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Posted: April 09 2010 at 11:49 |
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1969 completes the list of references. This year's list of references is complete except for a few additions that will follow shortly, so here goes: Song Artist (recorded/released) Time Is Tight Booker T. & the MG's (?/Feb '69) Fault Line Deep Purple (Jan-Mar/June '69) April Deep Purple (Jan-Mar/June '69) (Love Song) For Annie Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) If You So Wish Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) Music Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) The Week Looked Good on Paper [*] The Battered Ornaments (?/Spring '69) Space Oddity David Bowie (?/July '69) Shaman's Blues The Doors (?/July '69) Do It The Doors (?/July '69) The Soft Parade The Doors (?/July '69) Drivin' Bachwards Bakerloo (?/July '69) Big Bear Folly Bakerloo (?/July '69) Last Blues Bakerloo (?/July '69) She Belongs to Me Nice (April '69/Sept '69) Hang on to a Dream Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) Diary of an Empty Day Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) For Example Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) I Want You (She's So Heavy) The Beatles (Jan-Aug/Sept '69) Cygnet Committee David Bowie (June-Sept '69/Nov '69) Wild Eyed Boy from Freecloud David Bowie (June-Sept '69/Nov '69) Leaping Beauties for Rudy/Marcus Junior East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Xhorkom/Ramadhan/In the Snow for a…/Better… East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Gum Arabic/Confucius East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Nymphenburger East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Habibi Baby/Beast of Sweden/Boehm Constrictor East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Sun King The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Mean Mr. Mustard The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Polythene Pam The Beatles (July/Sept '69) She Came in Through the Bathroom Window The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Golden Slumbers The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Carry That Weight The Beatles (July/Sept '69) The End The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Because The Beatles (Aug/Sept '69) Child In Time Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sept/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Third Movement: Vivace – Presto Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sep/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Encore: Third Movement (part) Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sep/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Late into the Night The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Straggered The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Smoke Rings The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Mediaeval Masquerade [Released as 'I Luv Wight Kaleidoscope (?/? '70?) Prelude Man (?/? '69) The Storm Man (?/? '69) Parchment and Candles Man (?/? '69) Walking Down Their Outlook High Tide (?/? '69) Nowhere High Tide (?/? '69) Kanaan Amon Düül II (?) Luzifers Ghilom Amon Düül II (?) Freak Out Requiem II Amon Düül II (?) Freak Out Requiem III Amon Düül II (?) Turns to Dust: Discovery/Sanctuary/Determination Andromeda (?/? '69) Return to Sanity: Breakdown/Hope/Conclusion Andromeda (?/? '69) When to Stop: the Traveller/Turning Point/Journey's End Andromeda (?/? '69) Return to Exoduss Andromeda (?/? '69) Living Wreck Deep Purple (Oct '69/June '70) Prelude The Collectors ((?/? '69) Things I Remember The Collectors ((?/? '69) Teletype Click The Collectors ((?/? '69) Seventeenth Summer The Collectors ((?/? '69) The Long Rain The Collectors ((?/? '69) Kings and Queens Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Innocence Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Island Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Wanderer Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Bullet Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Drowned in Wine Family (? '69/Jan '70) Love Is a Sleeper Family (? '69/Jan '70) Wheels Family (? '69/Jan '70) Song for Sinking Lovers Family (? '69/Jan '70) 93's Ok J Family (? '69/Jan '70) Beautiful Daughter The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) Cherry Blossom Clinic Revisited The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) Fields of People The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) To Cry You a Song Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) A Time for Everything? Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) Sossity; You're a Woman Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) Homeland Gentle Giant (? '69?/? 04?) Slaughter on Tenth Avenue The Shadows ('69) Otherness Blue Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '69) Fingal's Cave Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) Rain in the Country Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) Love Scene Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) The Sicilian Clan Ennio Morricone ('69) Child in Time Deep Purple (Nov-Dec? '69/June '70) Edited by earlyprog - April 09 2010 at 12:01 |
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 4287 |
Posted: March 31 2010 at 08:48 |
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ROLF - if this is the beginners guide - the advanced guide must be terrible.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 20 2010 at 12:54 |
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Ok, I'm nearing completion of my references. Here's the year 1968 in Prog.
Comments on whatever you fell like much appreciated!
Song Artist (recorded/released) Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun Pink Floyd (Aug '67-Jan '68/June '68) Legend of a Mind The Moody Blues (Jan/July '68) The Inner Light The Beatles (Jan-Feb '68/Mar '68) Forty Thousand Headmen Traffic (?/Feb '68) Rainbow Chaser Nirvana (?/March '68) Not to Touch the Earth The Doors (Feb/July '68) Spanish Caravan The Doors (Feb-May/July '68) Let There Be More Light Pink Floyd (Jan-May/June '68) A Saucerful of Secrets Pink Floyd (April/June '68) Journey to the Center of the Mind The Amboy Dukes (?/May '68) Soul-Limbo Booker T. & the MG's (?/May '68) Faintly Blowing Kaleidoscope (May '68/April '69) The Actor The Moody Blues (May/July '68) Prelude: Happiness/I'm So Glad Deep Purple (May/July '68) Mandrake Root Deep Purple (May/July '68) Termination Iron Butterfly (Early/July '68) In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida Iron Butterfly (Early/July '68) The Sky Cried- When I Was a Boy Vanilla Fudge (?/June '68) Faceless People Vanilla Fudge (?/June '68) Panis et Circenses Os Mutantes (?/June '68) O Relógio Os Mutantes (?/June '68) Trem Fantasma Os Mutantes (?/June '68) Ave Genghis Khan Os Mutantes (?/June '68) House of Four Doors, Pt. 1 The Moody Blues (Jan-June/July '68) House of Four Doors, Pt. 2 The Moody Blues (Jan-June/July '68) Visions of Paradise The Moody Blues (June/July '68) Om The Moody Blues (June/July '68) Lather Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) Chushingura Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) House at Pooneil Corners Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) Prelude – Nightmare Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) Fanfare - Fire Poem Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) Come and Buy Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) It's About Time H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Electrollentando H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) At the Mountains of Madness H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Mobius Trip H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Waterways (Demo) East of Eden (July '68/2004) In the Stable of the Sphinx (Demo) East of Eden (July '68/2004) Down at Circe's Place Touch (Summer '68/? '69) Seventy-Five Touch (Summer '68/? '69) Withering Tree Traffic (?/Sept '68) Beggar's Farm Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Serenade to a Cuckoo Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Dharma for One Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Cat's Squirrel Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) A Song for Jeffrey Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Round Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Looking Glass The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) Plastic Horizon The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) I Never Know The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) Hard Road (Wring That Neck) Deep Purple (Aug/Sep '68) Anthem Deep Purple (Aug/Sep '68) The Show Must Go On Nirvana (?/Sept '68) Trapeze Nirvana (?/Sept '68) Miami Masquerade Nirvana (?/Sept '68) C Side of Ocho Rios Nirvana (?/? 68) Requiem to John Coltrane Nirvana (?/? 68) Wild Honey Pie The Beatles (Aug/Nov '68) What's the New Mary Jane? The Beatles (Aug '68/'96) Glass Onion The Beatles (Sept/Nov '68) Happiness Is a Warm Gun The Beatles (Sept/Nov '68) ...And the Gods Made Love The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) Moon, Turn the Tides...Gently Gently Away The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) Hang 'Em High Booker T. & the MG's (?/Oct '68) Cryin' to Be Heard Traffic (?/Oct '68) No Time to Live Traffic (?/Oct '68) Place of My Own Caravan (Oct/? '68) Ride Caravan (Oct/? '68) Intermezzo from the Karelia Suite The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: Prelude The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 2nd Movement – Realisation The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 3rd Mvmnt - Acceptance "Brandenburger" The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 4th Movement – Denial The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: Coda - Extension to the Big Note The Nice (?/Nov '68) For Pete's Sake Sweet**ter (?/? '68) My Cyrstal Spider Sweet**ter (?/? '68) Through an Old Storybook Sweet**ter (?/? '68) Isadora East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Bathers East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Moth East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Little Fly Group 1850 (?/? '68) A Point In This Life Group 1850 (?/? '68) Refound Group 1850 (?/? '68) The World Will End Yesterday Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) Mainliner Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) Reality Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) The Day of the Change Andromeda ('68/?) Acidus Andromeda ('67? '68?/?) The Weaver's Answer Family (? '68?/Feb '69) The Battle The Strawbs (? '68/?) Once Upon A Time In The West Ennio Morricone ('68) The Man With The Harmonica Ennio Morricone ('68) Silver Apples of the Moon~Part 1 Morton Subotnick ('68) |
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earlyprog
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Posted: March 12 2010 at 13:49 |
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References of 1967:
(In hindsight the list makes me wonder if proto-prog can be explained without using Cream as a reference. Your views?) Is Cream proto-prog?
Song Artist (recorded/released) No Time Like the Right Time The Blues Project (?/Feb '67) Johnny Was a Good Boy Mystery Trend (?/March '67) Get Me to the World on Time Electric Prunes (?/March '67) A Day in the Life The Beatles (Jan/June '67) Only a Northern Song The Beatles (Feb '67/Jan '69) I Don't Live Today The Jimi Hendrix Experience (Feb/May '67) Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! The Beatles (Feb-Mar/June '67) A Whiter Shade of Pale Procol Harum (Mar?/May '67) Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds The Beatles (Mar/June '67) Within You Without You The Beatles (Mar-Apr/June '67) Incense and Peppermints Strawberry Alarm Clock (?/Apr '67) My World Fell Down Sagittarius (?/May '67) Optical Sound The Human Expression (?/May '67) I Live in the Springtime Lemon Drops (?/May '67) Are You Experienced? The Jimi Hendrix Experience (Apr/May '67) Lady Friend The Byrds (Apr/July '67) Astronomy Domine Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) Dropout Boogie Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67) Electricity Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67) Abba Zaba Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67)It's Mindrocker Fenwyck (?/July '67) It’s All Too Much The Beatles (May '67/Jan '69) Baby You're a Rich Man The Beatles (May/July '67) Tiny Goddess Nirvana (?/July '67) Sunshine of Your Love Cream (May/Nov '67) Dance the Night Away Cream (May/Nov '67) Tales of Brave Ulysses Cream (May/Nov '67) We're Going Wrong Cream (May/Nov '67) You Know My Name (Look Up the Number) The Beatles (May-June '67, Apr '69/Mar '70) Pow R. Toc H. Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) Interstellar Overdrive Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) EXP The Jimi Hendrix Experience (May-June/Dec '67) If 6 Was 9 The Jimi Hendrix Experience (May-June/Dec '67) Strange Days The Doors (Feb-Aug/Sept '67) When the Music's Over The Doors (Feb-Aug/Sept '67) Bang Bang Vanilla Fudge (?/Aug '67) Stra (Illusions of My Childhood, Pt. 1)/You Keep Me Hangin' ... Vanilla Fudge (?/Aug '67) Old John Robertson The Byrds (June/July '67) Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) She's Goin' Bald The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Vegetables The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Little Pad The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Wonderful The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Conquistador Procol Harum (June? '67/Jan '68) Repent Walpurgis Procol Harum (June? '67/Jan '68) Homburg Procol Harum (June?/Oct '67) Shine on Brightly Procol Harum (June? '67/1997) Burning of the Midnight Lamp The Jimi Hendrix Experience (July/Aug '67) Love and Beauty The Moody Blues (July/Sept '67) Rael 1 The Who (July/Dec '67) Rael 2 The Who (July '67/1994) 2000 Light Years from Home The Rolling Stones (July/Dec '67) Beechwood Park The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Brief Candles The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Hung Up on a Dream The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Butcher's Tale (Western Front 1914) The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Time of the Season The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Are You Gonna Be There (At the Love-In) Chocolate Watchband (?/Sept '67) Wings of Love Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Lonely Boy Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) In the Courtyard of the Stars Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Pentecost Hotel Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Take This Hand Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Life Ain't Easy Nirvana (?/? '67?) The Red Telephone Love (June-Sept/Nov '67) Private Sorrow The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Balloon Burning The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Death The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Well of Destiny The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Defecting Grey The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Late? '67) Talkin' About the Good Times The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/? '68) That's How Much I Love You Baby (More or Less) H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) Let's Get Together H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) The White Ship H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) Save Yourself Soft Machine (? '67/2001) Lullaby Letter Soft Machine (? '67/2001) Bossa Nova Express Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Hope for Happiness Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Disorganisation Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) I Should've Known Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Why Are We Sleeping? Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) I Can See for Miles The Who (Sept/Oct '67) Spazz The Elastik Band (?/Nov '67) I Am the Walrus The Beatles (Sep/Nov '67) Blue Jay Way The Beatles (Sep/Dec '67) Flying The Beatles (Sep/Dec '67) Veruska Spirit (Sept '67/1996) Sing This All Together (See What Happens) The Rolling Stones (Feb-Oct/Dec '67) Gomper The Rolling Stones (Feb-Oct/Dec '67) A Small Package of Value Will Come to You, Shortly Jefferson Airplane (June-Oct/Nov '67) Spare Chaynge Jefferson Airplane (June-Oct/Nov '67) Who Needs the Peace Corps? The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Mom & Dad The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Absolutely Free The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Flower Punk The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Mother People The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Dest The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Hall of the Mountain King The Who (Oct '67/1994) Lunch Break: Peak Hour The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) The Afternoon: Forever Afternoon (Tuesday?)/Time.. The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) The Night: Nights in White Satin The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) Here We Go 'Round the Mulberry Bush Traffic (?/Nov '67) Heaven Is in Your Mind Traffic (?/Dec '67) No Face, No Name, No Number Traffic (?/Dec '67) Giving to You Traffic (?/Dec '67) Hole in My Shoe Traffic (?/Dec '67) Rondo The Nice (?/Dec '67) War and Peace The Nice (?/Dec '67) Tantalising Maggie The Nice (?/Dec '67) Dawn The Nice (?/Dec '67) If Not This Time Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Fantasy Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Cauldron Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Possession Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) You Can't Win Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) So-Lo Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) Fields of Sun Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) Iron Butterfly Theme Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) On Tomorrow Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Flower Pot Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Dirty Blue Gene Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Korn Ring Finger Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Fresh-Garbage Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Mechanical World Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Elijah Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Free Spirit Spirit (Nov '67/1996) Changes The Zombies (Nov '67/April '68) The American Metaphysical Circus The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Hard Coming Love The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) The Garden of Earthly Delights The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Coming Down The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Love Song for the Dead Ché The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Shine on Brightly Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) Skip Softly (My Moonbeams) Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) In Held Twas in I Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) Flight from Ashiya Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) A Lesson Perhaps Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) The Sky Children Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) H-O-P-P-Why? Hapshash & The Coloured Coat (?/? '67) Reborn Group 1850 (?/? '67) Mother No-Head Group 1850 (?/? '67) What Love (Suite) The Collectors (?/? '67) Yucatan Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '67) A Rainbow in Curved Air Terry Riley (?/? '67) Due Contro Cinque Ennio Morricone (?/? '67) Il Triello (The Trio) (Main Title) Ennio Morricone (?/? '67) Spacecraft~Edit MEV (?/? '67) Alice's Restaurant Massacree Arlo Guthrie (?/? '67) Walter Sly Meets Bill Bailey Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) What's the Point of Leaving Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) Reactions of a Young Man Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) Edited by earlyprog - March 12 2010 at 14:11 |
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earlyprog
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Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: February 22 2010 at 15:47 |
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.........and a list of references from 1966:
Song Artist (recorded/released) Eight Miles High Byrds (Jan/March '66) Why? Byrds (Jan/March '66) You Still Believe in Me The Beach Boys (Jan/May '66) Good Vibrations The Beach Boys (Feb/Oct '66) Pop Art Goes Mozart The Tornados (?/March '66) Tobacco Road Jefferson Airplane (Feb/Sept '66) Blues from an Airplane Jefferson Airplane (March/Sept '66) Come Up the Years Jefferson Airplane (March/Sept '66) I Ain't Got No Heart Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Who Are the Brain Police? Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Help, I'm a Rock Frank Zappa (March/June '66) The Return of the Son of Monster Magnet Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Seven & Seven Is Love (?/June '66) Psychotic Reaction The Count Five (?/June '66) Here Today The Beach Boys (March/May '66) Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) The Beach Boys (April/May '66) Rain Beatles (April/June '66) Tomorrow Never Knows Beatles (April/June '66) Eleanor Rigby Beatles (April/Aug '66) I'm Only Sleeping Beatles (April/Aug '66) Love You To Beatles (April/Aug '66) And Your Bird Can Sing Beatles (April/Aug '66) Doctor Robert Beatles (April/Aug '66) Yellow Submarine Beatles (May '66/Aug '66) I See You Byrds (May/July '66) What's Happening?!?! Byrds (May/July '66) 2-4-2 Fox Trot (The Lear Jet Song) Byrds (May/July '66) Bad Little Woman Shadows Of Knight (?/July '66) For No One Beatles (May/Aug '66) Over Under Sideways Down The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Hot House of Omagarishid The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Turn into Earth The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Ever Since the World Began The Yardbirds (?/July '66) She Said She Said Beatles (June/Aug '66) Break on Through (To the Other Side) Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) Soul Kitchen Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) Light My Fire Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) A Quick One, While He's Away Who (Sept/Dec '66) Boris the Spider Who (Oct/Dec '66) Cobwebs and Strange Who (Oct/Dec '66) Third Stone from the Sun Jimi Hendrix (Oct '66/May '67) Happy Jack Who (Nov/Dec '66) Mind Gardens Byrds (Nov '66/Feb '67) Today Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Comin' Back to Me Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) White Rabbit Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Plastic Fantastic Lover Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) The Duke of Prunes Frank Zappa (Nov '66/May '67) Invocation and Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin Frank Zappa (Nov '66/May '67) Is That a Ship I Hear? The Tornados (?/Aug '66) I Had Too Much to Dream (Last Night) The Electric Prunes (?/Nov '66) Blues' Theme Davie Allen & The Arrows (?/Dec '66) Strawberry Fields Forever Beatles (Nov-Dec '66/Feb '67) Everybody's Been Burned Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) Renaissance Fair Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) C.T.A. – 102 Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) Man from U.N.C.L.E. The Ventures (?/? '66) Hot Line The Ventures (?/? '66) The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Ennio Morricone (?/? ’66) The Candle Burns Beatles (?/? ’66) The Nonesuch Guide To Electronic Music Beaver & Krause (?/? ’66) |
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earlyprog
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Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: February 22 2010 at 10:02 |
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For easy reference - and as a basis for the subsequent analysis - here's a list of references for the years 1960-1965: Song Artist (recorded/released) Interlude Stan Kenton ?/1966 Malaguena Stan Kenton ?/1966 Dragonwyck Stan Kenton ?/1966 Angels and Demons at Play (album) Sun Ra (1960) Glob Waterfall Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Magnetic Field Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Dribcots Space Boat Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Apache The Shadows (1960) Man of Mystery The Shadows (1960) Lonely And Blue (album) Roy Orbison (1960) Wooden Heart Elvis Presley (‘60/’61) Wireless Fantasy for tape Vladimir Ussachevsky (1960) Apocalypse~Part 2 Tod Dockstader (1961) Olé John Coltrane (1961) Cresent John Coltrane (1961) Runaway (w/ clavioline) Del Shannon (?/? '61)
Hats Off To Larry (w/ clavioline) Del Shannon (?/? '61) Last Night Mar-Keys (?/? ’61) Nivram The Shadows (1961) Wonderful Land The Shadows (1962) Guitar Tango The Shadows (1962) Perfidia The Shadows (1962) This Is It Alan Watts (1962) Twist Uptown The Crystals (1962) Time Beat b/w Waltz In Orbit Ray Cathode (Maddalena Fagandini & George Martin) (?/? ’62) Man In Space With Sounds Attilio Mineo (?/? ’62) Ridin' the Wind The Tornados (July?/? '62) Telstar The Tornados (?/Aug '62) Green Onions Booker T. & the MG's (June?/Aug '62) We Travel the Spaceways Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '62) Percolator The Ventures (? '62/Jan '63) Robot The Tornados (?/March '63) Costa Monger The Tornados (?/? '63) All the Stars in the Sky The Tornados (?/? '63) Foot Tapper The Shadows (1963) Atlantis The Shadows (1963) Pipeline Chantays (?/? '63) ? Rebels (?/? '63?) More (w/French electronic music instrument Ondioline) Kai Winding (?/Aug ’63) Chinese Checkers Booker T. & the MG's (?/June '63) Mo' Onions Booker T. & the MG's (?/Dec '63) Dear Olde Benny Green Is A-Turning in His Grave Soft Machine (? '63/2001) Man in a Deaf Corner Soft Machine (? '63/2001) Thither and Yon Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '63) Not a Second Time The Beatles (Sept/Nov '63) Glad All Over The Dave Clark Five (?/Jan ’64) The House of the Rising Sun The Animals (Feb/June '64) I Call Your Name The Beatles (March/June '64) A Hard Day's Night The Beatles (April/July '64) She's Not There The Zombies (?/July? '64) Cantaloupe Island Herbie Hancock (June/? '64) The Egg Herbie Hancock (June/? '64) Exodus The Tornados (?/Aug '64) Things We Said Today The Beatles (2 June/10 July '64) Zoot Suit The Who (The High Numbers) (June/July '64) I'm the Face The Who (The High Numbers) (June/July '64) She Knows Me Too Well The Beach Boys (June/Sept '64) I'm Crying The Animals (July/? '64) When I Grow Up (To Be a Man) The Beach Boys (Aug/Sept '64) Wine and Roses John Fahey (Aug '64/'64) What the Sun Said John Fahey (Aug '64/'64) Run Run Run The Gestures (?/Oct '64) I Feel Fine The Beatles (Oct/Nov '64) Go Now The Moody Blues (?/Nov '64) Tell Her No The Zombies (?/Dec? '64) I Can't Explain The Who (Nov '64/Jan '65) A Love Supreme, Pt. 1: Acknowledgement John Coltrane (Dec '64/Feb '65) A Love Supreme, Pt. 4: Psalm John Coltrane (Dec '64/Feb '65) The Indians Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Almost Dead Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) The Result Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Sixty Seconds to What? Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) The Showdown Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) For a Few Dollars More Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Raga Seventh Sons (? '64/'68) For Your Love The Yardbirds (?/Feb '65) In the Back of My Mind The Beach Boys (Jan/March '65) Bull Session with "Big Daddy" The Beach Boys (Jan/March '65) Subterranean Homesick Blues Bob Dylan (Jan/April ’65) Play with Fire Rolling Stones (Jan-Feb/Feb '65) I Knew I'd Want You The Byrds (Jan/April '65) Ticket to Ride The Beatles (15 Feb/9 April '65) You've Got to Hide Your Love Away The Beatles (18 Feb/6 Aug '65 Here Without You The Byrds (April/June '65) Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere The Who (April/May '65) California Girls The Beach Boys (April/July '65) Summer Means New Love The Beach Boys (May/June '65) And Your Dream Comes True The Beach Boys (May/June '65) Heart Full of Soul The Yardbirds (?/June '65) Out of Our Tree The Wailers (?/Oct '65) Like a Rolling Stone Bob Dylan (June/July '65) Desolation Row Bob Dylan (June/Aug '65) Yesterday The Beatles (14 June/6 Aug '65) See My Friends The Kinks (?/July '65) We Gotta Get Out of This Place The Animals (?/July '65) It's My Life The Animals (?/? '65) I'm Gonna Change the World The Animals (?/? '65) From the Bottom of My Heart (I Love You) The Moody Blues (?/? '65) Still I'm Sad The Yardbirds (?/Oct '65) It Won't Be Wrong The Byrds (Sept/Dec '65) Stranger in a Strange Land The Byrds (Sept '65/1996) The Little Girl I Once Knew The Beach Boys (Oct/Nov '65) Stingray The Tornados (?/? '65) My Generation The Who (Oct/Nov '65) I Ain't No Miracle Worker The Brogues (?/Nov '65) I See the Light The Five Americans (?/Nov '65) Dirty Water The Standells (?/Nov '65) Just Like Me Paul Revere & The Raiders (?/Nov '65) You Ain't Tuff The Uniques (?/Dec '65) The Good's Gone The Who (?/Dec '65) The Ox The Who (?/Dec '65) Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) The Beatles (12 Oct/Dec '65) If I Needed Someone The Beatles (16 Oct/Dec '65) In My Life The Beatles (18 Oct/Dec '65) We Can Work It Out The Beatles (20 Oct/3 Dec '65) Nowhere Man The Beatles (21 Oct/Dec '65) The Word The Beatles (Nov/Dec '65) Think for Yourself The Beatles (8 Nov/3 Dec '65) Girl The Beatles (11 Nov/3 Dec '65) He Was a Friend of Mine The Byrds (Nov/Dec '65 Pet Sounds The Beach Boys (Nov '65/May '66) It's No Secret Jefferson Airplane (Dec '65/Sept '66) High Flyin' Bird Jefferson Airplane (Dec '65/?) Shapes of Things The Yardbirds (? '65/Feb '66) Orientasian Soft Machine (? '65/2001) The War Lord The Shadows (?/? '65) Bye bye butterfly Pauline Oliveros (?/? '65) Need further research: ? The Dave Clark Five (?/? ’64) Live at Klooks Kleek Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’64) There's a Bond Between Us Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’65) The Sound of 65 Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’65) Seal of the Blue Lotus Robbie Basho (?/? ’65) The Magic City (album) + Heliocentric Worlds (album) w/clavioline Sun Ra (?/? ’65)
The Voice of the Turtle John Fahey (?/? ’65 (68?))
A&M sessions Captain Beefheart (?/? ’65 (’66?)) Bare Hugg Manfred Mann (?/? ‘65) Crescent John Coltrane (?/?) "Mixtur" and "Mikrophonie I" Karlheinz Stockhausen (?/?) ? Terry Riley (?/?) ? Steve Reich (?/?) Out to Lunch Eric Dolphy ? Skatellites PROJECT 1 Gottfried Michael Koenig ? Georgie Fame ? Alan Price ? Zoot Money ? Dick Hyman The crying game Dave Berry Terry Twinkle Laugh Laugh The Beau Brummels ? The Lovin' Spoonful Everyone’s Gone to the Moon Sara Hickman I Can't Get no Satisfaction Manfred Mann (?/? ‘66) Edited by earlyprog - February 23 2010 at 09:31 |
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earlyprog
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Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: February 18 2010 at 04:31 |
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In agreement with the aforementioned model, modern prog is Prog in the Operation stage ("business as usual")...lacking the progressive aspects of the Development stage.
Truly progressive acts are in the Development stage.
When a Prog sub-genre is realized (see Realization stage), the music in the genre can no longer be progressive ?
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earlyprog
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Neo / PSIKE / Heavy Teams Joined: March 05 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 2133 |
Posted: February 15 2010 at 08:28 |
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Thanks for your input ProgressiveAttic and others.
I feel it's time to continue my work on the subject.
I have briefly scanned some of the music that lead up to proto-prog and thought about how to present it. Rather than doing it chronologically I will attack the development of proto-prog by this process model:
Research --> Ideation --> Conceptualization --> Development --> Realization --> Commercialization --> Operation
Re. "Conceptualization": KC conceptualizes Prog with ItCotCK in other words Prog was born as a concept; proto-prog had reached the album stage rather than just a few Prog songs scattered on an album - Prog becomes an album genre! Prior to this Prog was conceptualized on the song (or even parts of songs) basis only and eventually developed and realized as many of the Prog sub-genres (Prog Folk, Space Rock, Symphonic Prog, Eclectic). On the album level entire albums of Prog Folk, Symphonic Prog etc. emerged after ItCotCK. After these genres were realized, they were commercialized in the early 70's.
On the song level, many Prog genres were successfully commercialized in '67 (Doors, Pink Floyd, Procol Harum etc.).
Re. "Ideation" and "Research": think pre-'66 (pre-) Proto-prog, see http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56103
Reseach (pre-1960):
Printemps, symphonic suite for chorus, piano & orchestra, L. 61: Movement 1 Claude Debussy (1882) Printemps, symphonic suite for chorus, piano & orchestra, L. 61: Movement 2 Claude Debussy (1882) Verklärte Nacht: Grave Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Molto rallentando Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Pesante Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Adagio (229) Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verlärte Nacht: Adagio (370) Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Central Park in the Dark, for orchestra, Kv 23 Charles Ives (1906) Tone Roads for orchestra No. 1, 'All Roads Lead To the Center' KkV38 Charles Ives (1911) Parade, ballet Erik Satie (1917-1919) Hyperprisme Edgar Varèse (1923) Goodnight Irene John A. Lomax; Leadbelly (1932) Oraison, for ondes martenot Olivier Messiaen (1937) Imaginary Landscape John Cage (1939) ?? (pioneer of electronic music) Raymond Scott (40’s) This Land Is Your Land Woody Guthrie (1947) Music Out Of The Moon Les Baxter (?/? 1947) (electric guitars and multi-track recording techniques) Les Paul (1947) Étude Pathétique Pierre Schaeffer (1948) Cinq Études de Brutis Pierre Schaeffer (1948-50) Symphonie Pour un Homme Seul Pierre Schaeffer (1950) ??? (Bach + jazz) Jaques Loussier (?) Williams Mix, for 8 channels of pre-recorded tape John Cage (1952) Mess Around Ahmet Ertegun; Jesse Stone (1953) Déserts Edgar Varèse (1954) Gesang Der Jünglinge Karlheinz Stockhausen (1955-56) Forbidden Planet Louis and Bebe Barron (1956) ? Lennie Tristano (?) Poème électronique, for tape Edgard Varèse (1958) Kontakte Karlheinz Stockhausen (1955) Milestones Miles Davis (Feb-March/Sep '58) So What Miles Davis (March/Aug '59) All Blues Miles Davis (April/Aug '59) Take Five Paul Desmond (July '59/? '59) Blue Rondo a La Turk Dave Brubeck (Aug '59/? '59) Cindy Electronium Raymond Scott (1959) Thousand guitars Tracey Pendarvis (?/? 1959) The Big Hurt Miss Toni Fisher (1959) Drums of Passion Babatunde Olatunji (1959) Edited by earlyprog - February 17 2010 at 16:16 |
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ProgressiveAttic
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 05 2008 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 1243 |
Posted: February 14 2010 at 10:19 |
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I've been listening to lots of early Israeli prog and I've noticed that ther are some bands that could be considered under the proto-prog label because of their style and influence on the developing scene.
This may seem odd becaouse some of this bands where around dourin the 70's but Israeli prog developed rather late in comparison with other countries. Some examples: The Churchills: Behind the Sounds: Arik Einstein: Arik Einstein & Shalom Hanoch: Shalom Hanoch: Matti Caspi: |
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Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009 Location: Montréal Status: Offline Points: 8321 |
Posted: December 13 2009 at 18:18 |
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You beat me to it!
 Totally agree with that. Totally.
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12813 |
Posted: October 08 2009 at 10:35 |
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Clearly in the UK: Joe Boyd's Middle Earth, with regulars like Machine, Floyd, Tomorrow, Incredible String Band. other London venues in London would have included 100 Club, 12 Bar Club, Ronnie Scott's Club Upstairs, (put onbands like Soft Machine), Tiles.
There was a blues club circuit in the home counties - which slowly changed from being all blues rock and straight blues to more prog and underground bands more between 1967 and 1972. I regularly went to the Toby Jug at Tolworth one club on this circuit for 3 to 4 years (gigs Wednesdays and Sundays) and it was clearly from the and in Melody Maker, that bands like Timebox, Spooky Tooth, Edgar Broughton were following each round the circuit. Aylesbury was renown for a club putting on prog bands, such as Genesis. Without the album in front of me, i.e. Machine's Third, one track was recorded at a club in Birmingham - clearly there were venues well out of London too .
However, the university and colleges student union circuit in the UK probably was as influential as anything at promoting established and new prog bands from 1967 through to 1977/8 - when students seemed to go for punk. My university, Loughborough had Barclay James Harvest as early as 1968 or 9, one of the Nucleus live albums was recorded here, I saw Babe Ruth, Kevin Ayers, Beck Bogert Appice, Flash, Sweet, Just Us, Isotope, etc. etc. here - the Bonzo's last gig was here. One of the Soft Machine live albums was recorded at Nottingham SU. I saw Traffic at Central Middlesex Poly in 1970 (part of Welcome to The Canteen was recorded then), my brother caught T2 and (actually booked) John Martin at Middlesex Teaching Hospital SU in 70-72 period. Obviously Leeds SU is renown for The Who Live At Leeds as well as John Martyn Live At Leeds. Steve Hillage came out of U of Kent, whilst Van Der Graaf out of Manchester U.
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: September 22 2009 at 20:43 |
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Add Clark Hutchiston.
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SgtRock
Forum Newbie 
Joined: February 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: September 22 2009 at 16:41 |
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Excellent resource...wow! I dove right in and keep coming back to this.
Love that Miles Davis is considered to be not just jazz but prog! |
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008 Location: Là, sui monti. Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
Posted: July 22 2009 at 16:30 |
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My own reflections on this project: be careful.
This project has a "intelligent design" flavour: the idea that popular music "progresses" leads to the idea that progressive rock is neither a genre, nor a MOMENT in the history of Rock music, but the logical conclusion of the history of popular music. Reading "Prog was initiated as a cultural phenomenon" is historically wrong: it was A PART of the counter culture, not a whole phenomenon. Elsewhere, how could we explain the split evolutions of jazz-rock, psychaedelic, R.I.O....? Just as moshkito wrote it, you have to point the connections between music, cinema, literature (SF?) and even comics. Moreover, there are some elements in your sketch you should have corrected: the sole jazz artist you mention are Miles Davis and Sun Ra, and you seem to ignore free jazz, the "third stream" and other subgenres in jazz. Some sentences are also to be corrected: ItCotCK is not a concept-album. Quoting Miles Davis' "Porgy and Bess" as a concept album is also an error: it was an opera written by Gershwin. Saying Pink Floyd and Soft Machine had "entire prog gigs" is inaccurate: I guess you wanted to say that they were some of the first Pop bands improvising on stage. A last thing: creating a historical diagramm about progressive music that goes to the 30's... Two decades before Rock'n'Roll??? Innacurate again! At this rate, you could also add operas. |
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A Beginner's Guide to Proto-Prog
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earlyprog wrote: