A Beginner's Guide to Proto-Prog
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Topic: A Beginner's Guide to Proto-Prog
Posted By: earlyprog
Subject: A Beginner's Guide to Proto-Prog
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 08:53
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Introductory Remarks
This is a work in progress appearing extremely sketchy/premature at this stage.
Purpose
Establish the time-dependency (history / development) of prog i.e. the relationship of R&B/pop/rock with the variables jazz, classical, space music and psyche over time. The first prog genres reach a stable stage circa 1970. Thus, the development of prog up to 1970 is established. The subgenres of prog studied include symphonic prog, space rock, heavy prog, Canterbury...
Problem formulation: prog rock genres = f {rock AND (jazz OR R&B OR classical OR psyche OR...)}.
Establishment of a system of (qualitative) governing relations i.e. relations that govern the formulation of a prog rock genre
Heuristic / phenomenological solving of the system of qualitative relations.
Approach
Analytic Tool
Classification (prog/texture/density achieved by means of "instrumentation")
Classification by means of style
Quantification
Resources
Processes & Knowledge (of how to combine / composition of the resources into a musical piece)
Organization (of resources and processes into a musical product)
Musical product
Recording studios
Producers
Instruments (introduced in R&B/rock/...)
Skills (virtuosity)
Processes
Genres, styles
Market (e.g. culture).
Record labels
Clubs
Concert venues, festivals
Charts
Societal changes
The Development of Proto-Prog (introduction(background)
Prog was initiated as a cultural phenomenon. It was expressed in music, first (circa 1964) via segments of songs (Animals, Beatles, Yardbirds, Who, Beach Boys), then (circa 1966) entire songs (Soft Machine, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Doors) and finally (1968) via entire albums (possibly, Ars longa vita Brevis, East Of Eden 'Mercator Projected', Vanilla Fudge 'Renaissance', The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, HP Lovecraft II, Touch, Soft Machine). But it seems that prog rock as an album concept was introduced on ItCotCK. On the live scene, possibly Soft Machine and Pink Floyd were playing entire gigs of 'prog' in 1966. The variables of prog (jazz, R&B, folk, rock, psyche) are chosen by establishing links with proto-prog bands. For instance,
In 1966-1968 most (all?) proto-prog bands experimented with a mix of rock, jazz, psyche, raga, space rock. This suggests that prog = f(rock,psyche, space rock, jazz, raga).
By definition, a prog genre is fully developed when the first album containing (nearly) 100% music in the genre was released. This applies to most of the first wave of prog genres around 1970. Therefore, the present study covers the development of prog up to circa 1970.
Year Number of prog songs/albums Length
Partial prog songs Full prog songs Full prog albums (min)
Total/Classical/Jazz/Space oriented/Raga/US psyche/UK psyche/Space Rock
30's 1
40's 3
'53 1
'56 1
'58 1
'59 4
50's 7
'60 0
'61 4
'62 3
'63 7
'64 20
'65 40
'66 47
'67 132
'68
'69
Part 1: Pre-1960
Part 2: The instrumental years: 1960-1963
Pre British Invasion: Jazz, space music, avant, R&B and early rock
(see Captain Capricorn in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56498" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56498 )
This period laid the foundation for the development of space rock (Joe Meek 1960), avant prog (Sun Ra 1962; Sun Ra 1963) and jazz inspired prog (Soft Machine 1963a; 1963b). Also notable for the emergence of the("Emerson like") piano (Stan Kenton 1960), the organ (Booker T & The MG's 1962; 1963a; 1963b) and the clavioline (Joe Meek 1960; The Tornados 1962a-b; 1963a-c) as a lead instrument since the non-use of singing left more room for the instruments. Moreover, genre mixing emerged (Elvis Presley 1960; Stan Kenton 1960b).
The space music of Joe Meek had a clear relationship with the early electronic music (Ussachevsky 1960).
At the same time The Shadows contributed to the development of rock (Shadows 1960b) with bass solo (Shadows 1960c) and bolero (Shadows 1960e). Andy Latimer of Camel seems influenced by Hank Marvin's guitar.
Soft Machine influenced by Sun Ra?
Booker T & The MG's: new sound ahead of it's time.
Use of instruments: introduction of clavioline (Joe Meek, The Tornados), bas solo ("Nivram")
From Ray Charles, Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck and Sun Ra over the Shadows, the Tornados, the Ventures and Booker T, & the MG's to proto-Soft Machine and Beatles ("Not A Second Time").
Other: soundtracks, classical ingredients (Elvis)...
Characteristics (mixing styles, instrumentation, song length etc)
Mix, result: Jazz (brass, long tracks) + R&B (organ, guitar) = Soft Machine.
Other (non-jazz) route: x + y = Beatles ("Not A Second Time").
Part 3: Beatles give progressive music a voice: 1964-1966 Raga, psyche, space rock
Including birth of rock (Revolver, Cream).
Not A Second Time (Beatles 1963a) signalled a different approach to the development of prog.
Influences from R&B (Animals, Hancock), folk (Dylan, Byrds, Beatles), raga (Seventh Sons, Yardbirds, Kinks, Beatles).
Development of psych (Animals/R&B, Byrds, Jefferson Airplane).
Development on instrumental front: introduction of harmonium (Beatles "We an work it out", "The Word"), acoustic (Beatles "You've got to hide your love away" (12-string acoustic), "Yesterday", "We can work it out", "Girl"; Dylan "Suterranean Homesick Blues"), Twelve-string guitar (A Hard Day's Night, Things We said Today, Hide your Love Away, Ticket to Ride, If I Needed Someone; Leadbelly; the Byrds), organ (Animals)
Partial prog songs
Part 4: 1967 Proto-prog: classical, jazz
Full prog songs
Part 5: 1968-69 Prog
Full prog albums (incomplete)
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Replies:
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 10:10
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Good effort i think that you have to cover the entire Vertigo swirl label and the Dandelion label.
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 21 2009 at 10:12
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here's a link that will serve your effort:
http://www.vertigoswirl.com/ - http://www.vertigoswirl.com/
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 04:29
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Feel free to list clubs, concert venues and labels that were important in the development of proto-prog. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 05:03
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excellent, looks like you're on the right track.. also perhaps lesser artists as Beaver & Krause who did some early pioneering with synth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_&_Krause - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_&_Krause ..and works as Time Beat by George Martin (1962); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Beat - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Beat |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 13:00
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Here's the dandelion history:
http://www.trevormidgley.com/Dandelion.html - http://www.trevormidgley.com/Dandelion.html ------------- |
Posted By: sealchan
Date Posted: May 22 2009 at 17:22
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Will you be defining (or sketching a definition) for prog and explaining how proto-prog relates to that definition? |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 24 2009 at 07:26
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Sealchan, the study will be based on an assumed relationship for prog that describes the mixing of R&B/pop/rock with jazz, space music and psyche. Proto-prog is an inmature stage of prog, its maturity indicated by its time-dependency or development over time until full-blown prog albums circa 1969-1970.
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 25 2009 at 05:28
| Interestingly, in the years 1960-1965 the number of proto prog songs nearly doubled each year but the rate of increase appears to reduce after that.. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 03 2009 at 01:32
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I would definitely add the Matrix to the US clubs (home of Jefferson Airplane et al), and the Newport Folk and Jazz festivals. Newport 1965 is, I believe, the point at which prog really got kicked off, with Dylan proving that electric rock music could be just as "serious" and viable as the hallowed jazz and folk idioms. Dylan was, of course, a major mover in 1965 (not to mention other years, but in '65, he met up with the Byrds and the Beatles, and both changed dramatically stylistically, and the rest is history).
In 1962, Alan Watts released the first psychedelic release that I'm aware of, called "This Is It" (later parodied on "A Child's Garden of Grass - A Pre-Legalisation Comedy" in 1970). This contains psychedelic music as well as a lot of spoken philosophical stuff, so is of great interest,
Before Miles and Coltrane, there was the great pianist Lennie Tristano, whose modern jazz approach is not credited often enough - despite the fact he taught the likes of Joe Satriani and Bill Evans.
Before Lennie, was the jazz arranger, Stan Kenton, who is the first I know of to come up with the phrase "Progressive" in relation to music. He released an album in 1947 called "A Presentation of Progressive Jazz".
The first concept album I know of is Frank Sinatra's "The Wee Small Hours", in 1957. Having heard it, the stunning arrangements by Nelson Riddle are pretty progressive, IMO.
One important aspect is the integration of classical music - and you might be surprised at how early in rock's formative years this happened. Elvis Presley's song "Muss I Den" (Wooden Heart) incorporates a piece of classical music, for example.
In jazz, the pianist Jaques Loussier famously incorporated Bach with jazz - and I'd suspect he was influenced by Tristano's complex counterpoint. I haven't explored the jazz/classical integration history fully - but Loussier would be a good start. He must have been an influence on at least some of the early prog musicians. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 06:29
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Most recent addition: an incomplete list of the first 'full' prog albums.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 15:57
Another couple of reasonable contenders are
Chrysalis "Definition" (although many might argue this as a proggish psyche folk album - and who am I to disagree?) - 1968
Clouds "Scrapbook" - 1968 (Now in the archives! You can hear some tracks from this album (and others) and make your own mind up, now that Tony has added the streaming mp3s).
White Noise "An Electric Storm" - 1969
Fifty Foot Hose - Cauldron - 1968. Definitely not your average US psyche.
To the record labels list, you'll want to add Manticore, Neon, Charisma, Chrysalis (Island), Virgin and german label Brain.
Admittedly, neither Chrysalis nor Virgin remained "pure" prog...
There's probably loads I've forgotten - these are just off the top of my head.
As far as instruments go, I think that the Graham Bond Organisation were first to use the Mellotron - and they certainly had a proggy sound, especially later on albums like We Put Our Magick on You (1971 - Vertigo) - nice link to the R&B scene. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
earlyprog wrote:Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: June 09 2009 at 16:31
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Lee Hazelwood's highly reccomended Trouble is a Lonesome Town
from 1963 is a selfpenned concept/storytelleralbum about a town
(Trouble) and all its citizens (loosely based on his childhood
memories). Its the first real conceptalbum I know of with a storyline in the SF Sorrow / The Wall / Lamb Lies Down... (or Sinatras stunning Watertown)-vein, and not a collection of songs or ballads in a similar mood, like Wee Small Hours'. Imo its one of the best conceptalbums ever made too. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 03:22
Back to basics:
1. Melody. Characteristics - long flowing phrases as opposed to short repetitive phrases. Wild leaps, awkward intervals, techniques that show some mastery of the instrument (including voice!). Multiple simultaneous melody lines or even counterpoint.
2. Harmony. Characteristics - breaking away from standard progressions, e.g. I-IV-V, I-VI-IV-V or predictable diatonic variants, and more usage of jazz flavoured chords, integrating 6ths, minor 7ths, 9ths or other interval to build chord texture. Multiple simultaneous melody lines or even counterpoint.
3. Rhythm. Characteristics - could be time signatures other than 2 or 4/4, or, more frequently, unusual ways of using 4/4 so that the time signature becomes harder to identify, frequent breaks from steady rhythms rather than a continual beat, tempo changes, cross-rhythms between various instrumental parts.
4. Timbre - pretty much covered already, although also consider how the combined instrumental and musical textures go together to make proggy sounds - the technique of layering was quite often used. Not to be forgotten is vocal textures, e.g. Ian Anderson's simultaneous vocalisations over his flute playing and Peter Hammill's famous sounds.
5. Form - the best analytical POV, IMO. Characteristics - non standard song structure (A-B-A-B-C-A-B). The more complex the structure, and the better you feel it works to deliver a natural sounding piece of music, the greater chance that you are listening to a great piece of Prog that will only improve with further listening.
Not sure that this is a good way to measure prog - successful prog is not the same as good prog.
Clubs
Scenes
There was a Heavy/Space Prog/Rock scene in the Ladbroke Grove area of London which spawned bands such as The Pretty Things, Tomorrow, Sam Gopal, The Deviants, The Pink Fairies, Twink, Hawkwind, Motorhead and a number of others - it's well worth noting and exploring as the birthplace of Space Rock, although it's neither a Club nor a venue.
Check out particularly Sam Gopal's "Escalator" (1968) and Twink's "Think Pink" (1969) - and prepare to have your mind blown!
If you can handle punk (the attitude, not the "style"), check out The Deviants - but be prepared to have your mind blown for completely the wrong reasons if punk repels you!
Another album worth checking out, even though it's a bit late, is Glastonbury Fayre (1971), the famous triple album that was limited to 5000 pressings and was released in a HUGE gatefold sleeve packed with goodies including a DIY pyramid. It features the Fairies, Gong and a number of other great early Prog/Rock/Underground acts.
Most of it was't actually recorded at Glastonbury however...  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 03:53
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Sooner or later timbre, rhythm, harmony, form and melody would be mentioned as tools to analyse the music. I left it out initially as I have no prior theoretical knowledge on these parameters (one of the reasons why I chose to prepare a beginner's guide).
On the other hand, I also saw this blog as a great opportunity for me to get acquainted with the parameters, especially during the accompanying album reviews.
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Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 09 2009 at 14:28
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San Francisco's concert scene started at the Avalon Ballroom before the Fillmore and later Winterland for more popular artists. You might find someway to list promoters like the Family Dog and Bill Graham productions for the concerts that went on. I also see you have Zappa listed in British Psyche and where is Touch? John Anderson and Kerry Livgren list that album as a major influence in their writing. ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 09:47
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Hi,
I'm not sure there is an "easy" reply to this. I myself am working on a book on this stuff but am not going to go to the academic extent that you have demonstrated thie work.
However, I find one fault in it ... and I think that it is a drastic fault, that will have an immense influence in the way you do this and possibly improve your analysis to a better degree.
!st and foremost is film, and it's use of music ... there is very little music in ALL of film that is as experimental and different than the work of Bernard Herrman ... from the odd combinations of instruments that he used for many Alfred Hitchcock films to his own compositions and eventually soundtracks for fantasy films, which are by far and away some of the most powerful and expressive film scores ever done.
Along with film, comes something that does not have "direct" influence in music but is the grandfather of rock music ... in attitude!
And it probably starts in the late 40's and 50's and with the advent of the Elia Kazan, the NY theater scene and the London theater scene that went on to create "the angry young men" ... of which Harold Pinter, Joe Orton and many others came out of. In America the Kazan influence extended to bringing Arthur Miller, Tennessee Williams and later Edward Albee to the mix.
It might not be obvious, but Elvis was a veritable musical impersonation of Marlon Brando ,,, and you must see this connection and how American media was actually afraid of even allowing him shown on TV from his waist down ... and how american TV still to this day disrespects and trashes the value of all this theater and creativity in favor of a star system that protects their profits and bottom lines ... another story!)
Towards the 60's the major events are VietNam and television ... and these made the world "visible" ... and as such, the Beatles took on the visual side of themselves only to find fame and fortune that far exceeded their expectations or hopes ... but also added a lot more ... musical influences were now becoming international instead of just local. And this is important!
Other important movements would be the Kurt Weill and Bertold Brecht camp, that although not quite visible in rock music per se, it can be seen in the Velvet Underground, Talking Heads and a hand full of bands that tend to be somewhat more literary than most rock/pop music ... which has very little literary and artistic value in general. A lot of today's "prog" or "metal" music is just that ... extended pop music. Because someone likes a book, does not art make!
Paris has one of the most experimental and weird music and art scenes. You can do weird stuff and experiments in there. The likes of Heldon/Pinhas and that family are but an extension of that school, that almost fits the "avant-garde" mode of the arts than it does a "prog" discussion. Jacques Brel fits into this area and below with the German scene as well.
Germany in the early 60's had a very vibrant theater and film scene. One such example was Peter Handke, whose word plays were a word'y living theater (after Julian Beck !!!) ... and the Living Theater itself had a major influence in the performance art, much of which was undertaken by many musicians ... this was an influence to Damo Suzuki and his style that went on to flavor Can. It is also visible in the "acting style" that came out of the Amon Duul camp ... whose commune, according to Peter Michael Hamel's book had actually been led and run by an american actor in the first place ... so it was no surprise to find acting exercises being mixed up with music experimentation. It also becomes a very important element in the early Ash Ra Tempel material and then Cosmic Couriers with its theatrical style and floating voices and comments. That was not "lyrics" ... it was "live theater" or "live performance", not just singing! And this is a perfect and best example of how you can mix disciplines and make them improve each other ... it's just sad that theater itself has not improved and has fallen behind many of these arts.
This is not something that is usally thought of and is one of the most important pick ups of the music in the 60's ... it's getting away from "singing" into more performance oriented styles of saying things that could be considered catered to a movie or story ... other than operas, most music was NOT a "story" or a "symphony" ... and to me, the likes of Topographic Oceans, Tommy, Passion Play, Echoes, Atom Heart Mother ... and such were the first rock "symphonies" and they deserve that credit!
And there is a lot more that I am missing, and I can only reference my own experience ... one still needs to evaluate The Doors ... and the fact that they are all film majors ... and it is quite obvious to me how influenced by the likes of Bunuel/Dali, the writing of Jim Morrison is and how he uses the film imagery in the music ... he does the same thing a really good cinematographer will do ... make you remember the moment! ... and for music history purposes, specially what we want to call "progressive" ... this is massive, and one of the greatest influences out there ... not the only one. Others included Burroughs (Naked Lunch/NY/Warhol/Bowie/Reed) and how words were being thrown up in the air and then written as they fell as lyrics, which Bowie, Talking Heads and many other bands embraced on the spot.
All in all, there is no "progressive" music ... it is all a continual development of music ... the main difference that you are not mentioning is that radio/vinyl/tv changed what music WAS ... we never gave popular music and jazz and any other more popular idioms any credit and these were never considered "music" ... and all of a sudden ... guess what ... that line as to what is music and is not music is so blurred that many modern composers are all of a sudden really weak and just academic exercises compared to many rock musicians, jazz artists and other musicians out there ... and if you ask me ... that needed to happen ... it is progress ... in that more music can now be evaluated ... but it will require that the music concepts and thinking also change.... you can not rate the music of today with the "tools" of the past ... music has changed forever!
So, in essense, the history of "progressive music" is the history of the ultimate, and final, acceptance and combination of any and all popular music idioms into the history of music ... and as such a viable and important theme. However, most academia will not recognize progression in music ... specially stuff that comes off popular idioms.
And it is your turn and mine to make sure that people understand that.
I would re-write what you did with a more quotidian value ... but if you are around people that think that Mozart is music and the rest is not ... you are in the wrong place and need to go to school in Berkeley, where this study would make sense!
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 11:38
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Hi,
More on your dissertation ....
Guitar oriented --
I would remove this ... I do not think that this is as important as the music itself ... a different chapter should be made. The "electric" guitar is the violin of the 20th century ... plain and simple. There is nothing a violin can do that the guitar can not and vice versa ...
There are elements in electric guitar that don't even fit jazz ... listen to Terje Rypdal/David Darling (EOS -- skip the first cut) and you will find the best chamber music you have ever heard ... !!!
The breaking down into various idioms is almost ... not as important if you study the performance aspect.
Also not listed (haven't seen it yet) is the discussion about Woodstock and the most important symbol of this generation that was wasted ... one man trying to lift us out of all this trash and sh*t ... and we can not even see it and admire the inteligence the beauty and the love and the effort ... that it took to make it stand out ... and even the folks associated with it do not understand it and in the redo to come, it is still not mentioned. I have mentioned this to Mr. Scorcese, who was a cameraman in that film ... and told him just that and he has never replied ... I think he knows ... and I like to think to myself ... it's our secret. But that event needs to be magnified so the music can gain some more respect, instead of the continual rap by many Jimi fans that still think that's not blues or any other crap that he was forced to play!
Keyboard oriented
I don't think that a keyboard or a player doing a version of Griegg or Mussorgsky, is any more of a musician than one that never had any classical training whatsoever. To be fair, and honest I really think this is one of the worst definitions and things ever said about music and an insult.
Brass oriented
I would consider 2 schools of brass ... the jazz side and the soul/blues side. Both of which were progressive in their way. I would say that Miles Davis wrote the book on the jazz side, but he was doing something that most classically trained people can not do ... improvise as he felt like it, and he was not classically trained.
Violin oriented (It's A Beautiful Day, High Tide)
Orchestra/strings oriented (Nirvana, Moody Blues, Beatles, Doors, Nice, Deep Purple, Yes)
These are, for the most part, musicians that were influenced by classical music and wanted to use that inspiration within the rock context. What's so big about a teacher and school telling you about Beethoven and Mozart that you would not want to do with your guitar just for fun, and in some cases ... more than just fun?
Give the public and regular people some credit plz ...
Quantification
I think this would have to be put in perspective ... otherwise the majority of "prog" will never be here or discussed! But again, they are also less known than a lot of other musicians, and to me, this is the biggest thing about "prog"
As an example, around my roomie when he was playing Golden Earring at that time, the other dj nosed in and said "it's not rock'n'roll" ... to which my roomie immediately said ... "who cares! It's great music!"
You need to take the same stand!
And this is what you have to do ... you can not elevate prog because of a guitarist ... or a keyboard or Keith Emerson, or some other idiocy. But you can elevate a lot of music and redefine the concepts of "music" including the addition and advent of popular music into the definitions ... of which those we consider prog are a lot more aligned with the history of the arts and it's development than anything else ...
Recording studios
Definitly, although I think that the advent of tape improvements (from an inch to 2 and then 3 and more) for recording was the one thing that allowed a lot more to be done ... and have the fidelity to be able to showcase it.
Producers
Not always as important although it's hard not to consider George Martin, but he added a lot of musical knowledge and history to the Beatles and helped the music seem larger than just a couple of pop songs. There are other more important producers out there that added much more important elements to the development of music, and one should even consider Motown in the history.
Instruments (introduced in R&B/rock/...)
I would consider the Theremin important only in that it helped define a lot of synthesizers. However it was not, and still isn't, quite accepted as a classic instrument, and/or a part of an orchestra. Moog is a no brainer, and B&K is a great story. George was playing with the toys after he met these guys. Nothing major there. Sadly enough, the free form stuff that John did with Yoko would be more progressive and appropriate here were it not for the hate people have for Yoko. Which is not fair to John himself!
All other instruments were used and are quite conventional in their use in most work.
Skills (virtuosity)
The point of view here, should be "individuality" ... not skill. Skill is not exactly a measurable qantitative anything ... and should be dropped. But the individuality added to many compositions by each and every one of these people made the work they did quite historic and helped put music on the map ... again, the popular movement is blowing out the "classical" and creating more experimental and new pieces than the modernistic period ever did.
I would consider Miles, Jimi, Ian Anderson is a maybe ... and he could blow Rampal into the next country ... (as Herbie Flowers did!) ... but a point must be made clear that the rigid'ness of classical music concepts make it impossible for any virtuosi to flourish and grow ... and the pop/rock/jazz elements have embraced that spirit, which most academic and classic environments reject. And this is the single greatest factor in ALL of our discussion and music development!
Genres, styles
Raga .. needs to be developed more as there are many european bands that blatantly took this concept to heart, and you should discuss Agitation Free as an example. If you do not know/understand what a raga is and what it is designed to do, then any music that employs this concept is wasted. In general a lot of long cuts and improvisations have a lot more to thank a raga for than anything else, the musical elements (sonata, etc etc ) notwithstanding, as they can be a meeting point at any time in the music itself to help the musicians come together in the end, for example.
US psyche ... definitly more radio oriented.
UK psyche ... more composition oriented
French/German psyche ... more complete exploration oriented
Italian psyche ... almost exclusively influenced by classical music
Folk ... there really should be a section that helps define folk better. The english scene in folk in its variations and combinations is far more progressive and experimental than we give them credit for.
Record labels
You have got to have the ECM label here ... there is no one more progressive and experimental than the close the door in the room and play mentality of that group ... it's exclusion is a perfect example of how we lavel things and do not credit "musicians" for their work.
One other mention ... you do not have the 3 greatest composers of your time and mine ...
Vangelis, Mike Oldfield and Klaus Schulze ... end of story!
Clubs
Not as important today as it might have been 50 years ago ... but worth of mentioning that they created scenes related to their areas and arts. But Fillmore was not removed from the hippie scene and neither was the UFO removed from the London scene ... they were an extension of the scene! Discuss that plz.
Charts
I would not discuss charts ... they are about "top of the pops" not music and never have been ... but they are important in helping the demise of classical music and the rise of popular music ... albeit not the standards, in lieu of the fame content!
Societal changes
I would discuss these as a part of the world scene and changes. Drugs in SF were a completely different story than they were in France, or London!
Year Number of prog songs/albums Length
This should be done only as a reference to see changes in history of music ... otherwise not really important, albeit I do not think some things would have been done without A or B ...
Thx
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Posted By: Lodij van der Graaf
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 12:50
You even study it!  You know, it's quite mesmerizing to -almost- everyone to see this thread... A post could be a set of paragraphs. My first impression about this is: Geez, the heck! :close the window: But, when I try to look it once again, I found interesting things. Thanks for everyone above! ------------- Grace is a name, like Chastity, like Lucifer, like mine!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 13:31
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HI,
Born in Portugal, went to Brazil and then came to America ... when it comes to music, there is not a whole lot of variation that bothers me, be it cultural, weird or just plain plutonean!
But in travelling and reading different periodicals than the no-news American news, it something that one remembers and can take with their life. In America this is hard, specially when the media is also controlled/owned by the same people making the money in the blockbusters.
As such, the chance that something will be discussed, or shown on TV or appearing on radio are not very good. For the most part, the history of american arts is in a horrible sad state because of the business interests.
The 20th century is trying to change this and the internet is also helping massively, not to mention the rest of the world ... but the old world is still alive ... look at folks in this board ... treating 9 out of 10 threads based on their favorites and what they know ... and getting them to listen to something they don't know ... not gonna happen ... otherwise you would get a nice comment like ... I listened to this album yesterday and thought this and that ... but you only get ... hated it. You know why? 2 minutes of it off iTunes or a quick sample and it did not trigger their ear.
Simplistic notion ... but if we are going to elevate music, that notion has to change some.
There are some really nice and intelligent folks here that know their stuff ... and are studying this stuff. Hopefully they can help make a difference, but calling it "prog" something that the very instruments that we consider prog deny ... is what is bizarre to me!
It's not even about the music and the day and space anymore ... it's about my idea of what "prog" is supposed to be?
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 15:37
Very interesting observation
There are more interesting and very valid observations in the other paragraphs - but that is one that I've overlooked.
Totally agree with this.
Disagee with this. Some music is progressive, some is just a continuation of what went before, and some is just a poor money-spinning regurgitation.
Music is still changing, but any music that is rooted in the Western diatonic traditions can be assessed with the tools of that tradition.
This definitely isn't true - at college I was set the task to write a dissertation on Progressive Rock. Analysing music through the ages gives an understanding of how it literally progresses - and it's widely recognised that popular music is at the heart of much "artistic" music (for want of a better term).
Or you could go to Leicester or a huge number of other places - academia is nowhere near as blinkered as you think. On the contrary, those who have not been through a musical course at degree level tend to be very suspicious of people who have - as if the learning counts for nothing, and is merely "academic"! This is patently not true. We go to college to learn about music - not sit there and theoreticise about it. One guy in my class gave a presentation on U2, and another on Punk Rock - and this qas quite a while ago. Give up the stereotypes - colleges are halls of learning, which keep a close eye on the "real world".
Hang on a moment 
Umm, I think some people should give academia a little more credit
There are ways of measuring whether the music is in some way "superior" or not, thanks to music theory - but, as has been pointed out, this requires a framework. You can't just say, "Oh, it's great music, let's include it in Prog Archives" - or what would be the point of having a site dedicated to Prog (and related) music? Keep the right prespective here, is all I'm saying!
Fair point
Yes it is and no it shouldn't 
Not really - there were plenty of people who just happened to be in the right place at the right time with an instrument. "Each and every one...." is a bit of an exaggeration, is my point.
That's quite an assumption. Mozart was a virtuoso, and so was Beethoven - and Bach, and so on and so on... People forget that all the greatest composers were also incredible improvisors - and that improvisation was key during performances, and key to great compositions. True, there are large sections where everybody has to pull together in symphonies and the like, but in concerti, improvisation by a star performer is the point of the piece, and in small chamber groups, improvisation was all part of the fun. It's probably more true to say that improvisation isn't taught as much as it should be - but how can you teach it? Who taught Miles?
Not any that I've ever encountered - maybe things are different in your country. This is a baseless assumption - both Debussy and Stravinsky embraced jazz techniques in their music, and Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" is way ahead of its time.
The point is not so much using the technique, as using the technique to create new sounding music. Does Agitation Free's music sound unique or fresh in some way? Listen to Turangalila Symphonie by Olivier Messiaen - a composer who used raga extensively. To me it sounds fresh and free-flowing - not like you'd expect "Classical" music to sound at all. It's the music that matters to the general listener, not how its created. That is the domain of the composer and the analytical listener. Advanced or unusual technique utilisation is not "a waste", but a useful way of writing progressive sounding music - and if the technique is used well, will create bona fide progressive music.
True - and not just the English folk scene, but folk scenes around the world. Some good points and some incorrect assumptions - and some very astute observations. Nice one! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 16:30
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My own reflections on this project: be careful. This project has a "intelligent design" flavour: the idea that popular music "progresses" leads to the idea that progressive rock is neither a genre, nor a MOMENT in the history of Rock music, but the logical conclusion of the history of popular music. Reading "Prog was initiated as a cultural phenomenon" is historically wrong: it was A PART of the counter culture, not a whole phenomenon. Elsewhere, how could we explain the split evolutions of jazz-rock, psychaedelic, R.I.O....? Just as moshkito wrote it, you have to point the connections between music, cinema, literature (SF?) and even comics. Moreover, there are some elements in your sketch you should have corrected: the sole jazz artist you mention are Miles Davis and Sun Ra, and you seem to ignore free jazz, the "third stream" and other subgenres in jazz. Some sentences are also to be corrected: ItCotCK is not a concept-album. Quoting Miles Davis' "Porgy and Bess" as a concept album is also an error: it was an opera written by Gershwin. Saying Pink Floyd and Soft Machine had "entire prog gigs" is inaccurate: I guess you wanted to say that they were some of the first Pop bands improvising on stage. A last thing: creating a historical diagramm about progressive music that goes to the 30's... Two decades before Rock'n'Roll??? Innacurate again! At this rate, you could also add operas. |
Posted By: SgtRock
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 16:41
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Excellent resource...wow! I dove right in and keep coming back to this. Love that Miles Davis is considered to be not just jazz but prog! |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 22 2009 at 20:43
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Add Clark Hutchiston. ------------- |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 08 2009 at 10:35
Clearly in the UK: Joe Boyd's Middle Earth, with regulars like Machine, Floyd, Tomorrow, Incredible String Band. other London venues in London would have included 100 Club, 12 Bar Club, Ronnie Scott's Club Upstairs, (put onbands like Soft Machine), Tiles.
There was a blues club circuit in the home counties - which slowly changed from being all blues rock and straight blues to more prog and underground bands more between 1967 and 1972. I regularly went to the Toby Jug at Tolworth one club on this circuit for 3 to 4 years (gigs Wednesdays and Sundays) and it was clearly from the and in Melody Maker, that bands like Timebox, Spooky Tooth, Edgar Broughton were following each round the circuit. Aylesbury was renown for a club putting on prog bands, such as Genesis. Without the album in front of me, i.e. Machine's Third, one track was recorded at a club in Birmingham - clearly there were venues well out of London too .
However, the university and colleges student union circuit in the UK probably was as influential as anything at promoting established and new prog bands from 1967 through to 1977/8 - when students seemed to go for punk. My university, Loughborough had Barclay James Harvest as early as 1968 or 9, one of the Nucleus live albums was recorded here, I saw Babe Ruth, Kevin Ayers, Beck Bogert Appice, Flash, Sweet, Just Us, Isotope, etc. etc. here - the Bonzo's last gig was here. One of the Soft Machine live albums was recorded at Nottingham SU. I saw Traffic at Central Middlesex Poly in 1970 (part of Welcome to The Canteen was recorded then), my brother caught T2 and (actually booked) John Martin at Middlesex Teaching Hospital SU in 70-72 period. Obviously Leeds SU is renown for The Who Live At Leeds as well as John Martyn Live At Leeds. Steve Hillage came out of U of Kent, whilst Van Der Graaf out of Manchester U. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: December 13 2009 at 18:18
You beat me to it!
 Totally agree with that. Totally. ------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: February 14 2010 at 10:19
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I've been listening to lots of early Israeli prog and I've noticed that ther are some bands that could be considered under the proto-prog label because of their style and influence on the developing scene.
This may seem odd becaouse some of this bands where around dourin the 70's but Israeli prog developed rather late in comparison with other countries. Some examples: The Churchills: Behind the Sounds: Arik Einstein: Arik Einstein & Shalom Hanoch: Shalom Hanoch: Matti Caspi: ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 15 2010 at 08:28
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Thanks for your input ProgressiveAttic and others.
I feel it's time to continue my work on the subject.
I have briefly scanned some of the music that lead up to proto-prog and thought about how to present it. Rather than doing it chronologically I will attack the development of proto-prog by this process model:
Research --> Ideation --> Conceptualization --> Development --> Realization --> Commercialization --> Operation
Re. "Conceptualization": KC conceptualizes Prog with ItCotCK in other words Prog was born as a concept; proto-prog had reached the album stage rather than just a few Prog songs scattered on an album - Prog becomes an album genre! Prior to this Prog was conceptualized on the song (or even parts of songs) basis only and eventually developed and realized as many of the Prog sub-genres (Prog Folk, Space Rock, Symphonic Prog, Eclectic). On the album level entire albums of Prog Folk, Symphonic Prog etc. emerged after ItCotCK. After these genres were realized, they were commercialized in the early 70's.
On the song level, many Prog genres were successfully commercialized in '67 (Doors, Pink Floyd, Procol Harum etc.).
Re. "Ideation" and "Research": think pre-'66 (pre-) Proto-prog, see http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56103 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56103
Reseach (pre-1960):
Printemps, symphonic suite for chorus, piano & orchestra, L. 61: Movement 1 Claude Debussy (1882) Printemps, symphonic suite for chorus, piano & orchestra, L. 61: Movement 2 Claude Debussy (1882) Verklärte Nacht: Grave Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Molto rallentando Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Pesante Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verklärte Nacht: Adagio (229) Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Verlärte Nacht: Adagio (370) Arnold Schoenberg (1899) Central Park in the Dark, for orchestra, Kv 23 Charles Ives (1906) Tone Roads for orchestra No. 1, 'All Roads Lead To the Center' KkV38 Charles Ives (1911) Parade, ballet Erik Satie (1917-1919) Hyperprisme Edgar Varèse (1923) Goodnight Irene John A. Lomax; Leadbelly (1932) Oraison, for ondes martenot Olivier Messiaen (1937) Imaginary Landscape John Cage (1939) ?? (pioneer of electronic music) Raymond Scott (40’s) This Land Is Your Land Woody Guthrie (1947) Music Out Of The Moon Les Baxter (?/? 1947) (electric guitars and multi-track recording techniques) Les Paul (1947) Étude Pathétique Pierre Schaeffer (1948) Cinq Études de Brutis Pierre Schaeffer (1948-50) Symphonie Pour un Homme Seul Pierre Schaeffer (1950) ??? (Bach + jazz) Jaques Loussier (?) Williams Mix, for 8 channels of pre-recorded tape John Cage (1952) Mess Around Ahmet Ertegun; Jesse Stone (1953) Déserts Edgar Varèse (1954) Gesang Der Jünglinge Karlheinz Stockhausen (1955-56) Forbidden Planet Louis and Bebe Barron (1956) ? Lennie Tristano (?) Poème électronique, for tape Edgard Varèse (1958) Kontakte Karlheinz Stockhausen (1955) Milestones Miles Davis (Feb-March/Sep '58) So What Miles Davis (March/Aug '59) All Blues Miles Davis (April/Aug '59) Take Five Paul Desmond (July '59/? '59) Blue Rondo a La Turk Dave Brubeck (Aug '59/? '59) Cindy Electronium Raymond Scott (1959) Thousand guitars Tracey Pendarvis (?/? 1959) The Big Hurt Miss Toni Fisher (1959) Drums of Passion Babatunde Olatunji (1959) |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 04:31
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In agreement with the aforementioned model, modern prog is Prog in the Operation stage ("business as usual")...lacking the progressive aspects of the Development stage.
Truly progressive acts are in the Development stage.
When a Prog sub-genre is realized (see Realization stage), the music in the genre can no longer be progressive ?
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 22 2010 at 10:02
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For easy reference - and as a basis for the subsequent analysis - here's a list of references for the years 1960-1965: Song Artist (recorded/released) Interlude Stan Kenton ?/1966 Malaguena Stan Kenton ?/1966 Dragonwyck Stan Kenton ?/1966 Angels and Demons at Play (album) Sun Ra (1960) Glob Waterfall Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Magnetic Field Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Dribcots Space Boat Joe Meek & the Blue Men (1960) Apache The Shadows (1960) Man of Mystery The Shadows (1960) Lonely And Blue (album) Roy Orbison (1960) Wooden Heart Elvis Presley (‘60/’61) Wireless Fantasy for tape Vladimir Ussachevsky (1960) Apocalypse~Part 2 Tod Dockstader (1961) Olé John Coltrane (1961) Cresent John Coltrane (1961) Runaway (w/ clavioline) Del Shannon (?/? '61)
Hats Off To Larry (w/ clavioline) Del Shannon (?/? '61) Last Night Mar-Keys (?/? ’61) Nivram The Shadows (1961) Wonderful Land The Shadows (1962) Guitar Tango The Shadows (1962) Perfidia The Shadows (1962) This Is It Alan Watts (1962) Twist Uptown The Crystals (1962) Time Beat b/w Waltz In Orbit Ray Cathode (Maddalena Fagandini & George Martin) (?/? ’62) Man In Space With Sounds Attilio Mineo (?/? ’62) Ridin' the Wind The Tornados (July?/? '62) Telstar The Tornados (?/Aug '62) Green Onions Booker T. & the MG's (June?/Aug '62) We Travel the Spaceways Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '62) Percolator The Ventures (? '62/Jan '63) Robot The Tornados (?/March '63) Costa Monger The Tornados (?/? '63) All the Stars in the Sky The Tornados (?/? '63) Foot Tapper The Shadows (1963) Atlantis The Shadows (1963) Pipeline Chantays (?/? '63) ? Rebels (?/? '63?) More (w/French electronic music instrument Ondioline) Kai Winding (?/Aug ’63) Chinese Checkers Booker T. & the MG's (?/June '63) Mo' Onions Booker T. & the MG's (?/Dec '63) Dear Olde Benny Green Is A-Turning in His Grave Soft Machine (? '63/2001) Man in a Deaf Corner Soft Machine (? '63/2001) Thither and Yon Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '63) Not a Second Time The Beatles (Sept/Nov '63) Glad All Over The Dave Clark Five (?/Jan ’64) The House of the Rising Sun The Animals (Feb/June '64) I Call Your Name The Beatles (March/June '64) A Hard Day's Night The Beatles (April/July '64) She's Not There The Zombies (?/July? '64) Cantaloupe Island Herbie Hancock (June/? '64) The Egg Herbie Hancock (June/? '64) Exodus The Tornados (?/Aug '64) Things We Said Today The Beatles (2 June/10 July '64) Zoot Suit The Who (The High Numbers) (June/July '64) I'm the Face The Who (The High Numbers) (June/July '64) She Knows Me Too Well The Beach Boys (June/Sept '64) I'm Crying The Animals (July/? '64) When I Grow Up (To Be a Man) The Beach Boys (Aug/Sept '64) Wine and Roses John Fahey (Aug '64/'64) What the Sun Said John Fahey (Aug '64/'64) Run Run Run The Gestures (?/Oct '64) I Feel Fine The Beatles (Oct/Nov '64) Go Now The Moody Blues (?/Nov '64) Tell Her No The Zombies (?/Dec? '64) I Can't Explain The Who (Nov '64/Jan '65) A Love Supreme, Pt. 1: Acknowledgement John Coltrane (Dec '64/Feb '65) A Love Supreme, Pt. 4: Psalm John Coltrane (Dec '64/Feb '65) The Indians Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Almost Dead Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) The Result Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Sixty Seconds to What? Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) The Showdown Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) For a Few Dollars More Ennio Morricone (?/? ’64) Raga Seventh Sons (? '64/'68) For Your Love The Yardbirds (?/Feb '65) In the Back of My Mind The Beach Boys (Jan/March '65) Bull Session with "Big Daddy" The Beach Boys (Jan/March '65) Subterranean Homesick Blues Bob Dylan (Jan/April ’65) Play with Fire Rolling Stones (Jan-Feb/Feb '65) I Knew I'd Want You The Byrds (Jan/April '65) Ticket to Ride The Beatles (15 Feb/9 April '65) You've Got to Hide Your Love Away The Beatles (18 Feb/6 Aug '65 Here Without You The Byrds (April/June '65) Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere The Who (April/May '65) California Girls The Beach Boys (April/July '65) Summer Means New Love The Beach Boys (May/June '65) And Your Dream Comes True The Beach Boys (May/June '65) Heart Full of Soul The Yardbirds (?/June '65) Out of Our Tree The Wailers (?/Oct '65) Like a Rolling Stone Bob Dylan (June/July '65) Desolation Row Bob Dylan (June/Aug '65) Yesterday The Beatles (14 June/6 Aug '65) See My Friends The Kinks (?/July '65) We Gotta Get Out of This Place The Animals (?/July '65) It's My Life The Animals (?/? '65) I'm Gonna Change the World The Animals (?/? '65) From the Bottom of My Heart (I Love You) The Moody Blues (?/? '65) Still I'm Sad The Yardbirds (?/Oct '65) It Won't Be Wrong The Byrds (Sept/Dec '65) Stranger in a Strange Land The Byrds (Sept '65/1996) The Little Girl I Once Knew The Beach Boys (Oct/Nov '65) Stingray The Tornados (?/? '65) My Generation The Who (Oct/Nov '65) I Ain't No Miracle Worker The Brogues (?/Nov '65) I See the Light The Five Americans (?/Nov '65) Dirty Water The Standells (?/Nov '65) Just Like Me Paul Revere & The Raiders (?/Nov '65) You Ain't Tuff The Uniques (?/Dec '65) The Good's Gone The Who (?/Dec '65) The Ox The Who (?/Dec '65) Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown) The Beatles (12 Oct/Dec '65) If I Needed Someone The Beatles (16 Oct/Dec '65) In My Life The Beatles (18 Oct/Dec '65) We Can Work It Out The Beatles (20 Oct/3 Dec '65) Nowhere Man The Beatles (21 Oct/Dec '65) The Word The Beatles (Nov/Dec '65) Think for Yourself The Beatles (8 Nov/3 Dec '65) Girl The Beatles (11 Nov/3 Dec '65) He Was a Friend of Mine The Byrds (Nov/Dec '65 Pet Sounds The Beach Boys (Nov '65/May '66) It's No Secret Jefferson Airplane (Dec '65/Sept '66) High Flyin' Bird Jefferson Airplane (Dec '65/?) Shapes of Things The Yardbirds (? '65/Feb '66) Orientasian Soft Machine (? '65/2001) The War Lord The Shadows (?/? '65) Bye bye butterfly Pauline Oliveros (?/? '65) Need further research: ? The Dave Clark Five (?/? ’64) Live at Klooks Kleek Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’64) There's a Bond Between Us Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’65) The Sound of 65 Graham Bond Organisation (?/? ’65) Seal of the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56103&PN=2 - Blue Lotus Robbie Basho (?/? ’65) The Magic City (album) + Heliocentric Worlds (album) w/clavioline Sun Ra (?/? ’65)
The Voice of the Turtle John Fahey (?/? ’65 (68?))
A&M sessions Captain Beefheart (?/? ’65 (’66?)) Bare Hugg Manfred Mann (?/? ‘65) Crescent John Coltrane (?/?) "Mixtur" and "Mikrophonie I" Karlheinz Stockhausen (?/?) ? Terry Riley (?/?) ? Steve Reich (?/?) Out to Lunch Eric Dolphy ? Skatellites PROJECT 1 Gottfried Michael Koenig ? Georgie Fame ? Alan Price ? Zoot Money ? Dick Hyman The crying game Dave Berry Terry Twinkle Laugh Laugh The Beau Brummels ? The Lovin' Spoonful Everyone’s Gone to the Moon Sara Hickman I Can't Get no Satisfaction Manfred Mann (?/? ‘66) |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 22 2010 at 15:47
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.........and a list of references from 1966:
Song Artist (recorded/released) Eight Miles High Byrds (Jan/March '66) Why? Byrds (Jan/March '66) You Still Believe in Me The Beach Boys (Jan/May '66) Good Vibrations The Beach Boys (Feb/Oct '66) Pop Art Goes Mozart The Tornados (?/March '66) Tobacco Road Jefferson Airplane (Feb/Sept '66) Blues from an Airplane Jefferson Airplane (March/Sept '66) Come Up the Years Jefferson Airplane (March/Sept '66) I Ain't Got No Heart Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Who Are the Brain Police? Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Help, I'm a Rock Frank Zappa (March/June '66) The Return of the Son of Monster Magnet Frank Zappa (March/June '66) Seven & Seven Is Love (?/June '66) Psychotic Reaction The Count Five (?/June '66) Here Today The Beach Boys (March/May '66) Don't Talk (Put Your Head on My Shoulder) The Beach Boys (April/May '66) Rain Beatles (April/June '66) Tomorrow Never Knows Beatles (April/June '66) Eleanor Rigby Beatles (April/Aug '66) I'm Only Sleeping Beatles (April/Aug '66) Love You To Beatles (April/Aug '66) And Your Bird Can Sing Beatles (April/Aug '66) Doctor Robert Beatles (April/Aug '66) Yellow Submarine Beatles (May '66/Aug '66) I See You Byrds (May/July '66) What's Happening?!?! Byrds (May/July '66) 2-4-2 Fox Trot (The Lear Jet Song) Byrds (May/July '66) Bad Little Woman Shadows Of Knight (?/July '66) For No One Beatles (May/Aug '66) Over Under Sideways Down The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Hot House of Omagarishid The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Turn into Earth The Yardbirds (?/July '66) Ever Since the World Began The Yardbirds (?/July '66) She Said She Said Beatles (June/Aug '66) Break on Through (To the Other Side) Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) Soul Kitchen Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) Light My Fire Doors (Aug '66/Jan '67) A Quick One, While He's Away Who (Sept/Dec '66) Boris the Spider Who (Oct/Dec '66) Cobwebs and Strange Who (Oct/Dec '66) Third Stone from the Sun Jimi Hendrix (Oct '66/May '67) Happy Jack Who (Nov/Dec '66) Mind Gardens Byrds (Nov '66/Feb '67) Today Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Comin' Back to Me Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Embryonic Journey Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) White Rabbit Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) Plastic Fantastic Lover Jefferson Airplane (Nov '66/Feb '67) The Duke of Prunes Frank Zappa (Nov '66/May '67) Invocation and Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin Frank Zappa (Nov '66/May '67) Is That a Ship I Hear? The Tornados (?/Aug '66) I Had Too Much to Dream (Last Night) The Electric Prunes (?/Nov '66) Blues' Theme Davie Allen & The Arrows (?/Dec '66) Strawberry Fields Forever Beatles (Nov-Dec '66/Feb '67) Everybody's Been Burned Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) Renaissance Fair Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) C.T.A. – 102 Byrds (Dec '66/Jan '67) Man from U.N.C.L.E. The Ventures (?/? '66) Hot Line The Ventures (?/? '66) The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Ennio Morricone (?/? ’66) The Candle Burns Beatles (?/? ’66) The Nonesuch Guide To Electronic Music Beaver & Krause (?/? ’66) |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: March 12 2010 at 13:49
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References of 1967:
(In hindsight the list makes me wonder if proto-prog can be explained without using Cream as a reference. Your views?) Is Cream proto-prog?
Song Artist (recorded/released) No Time Like the Right Time The Blues Project (?/Feb '67) Johnny Was a Good Boy Mystery Trend (?/March '67) Get Me to the World on Time Electric Prunes (?/March '67) A Day in the Life The Beatles (Jan/June '67) Only a Northern Song The Beatles (Feb '67/Jan '69) I Don't Live Today The Jimi Hendrix Experience (Feb/May '67) Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! The Beatles (Feb-Mar/June '67) A Whiter Shade of Pale Procol Harum (Mar?/May '67) Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds The Beatles (Mar/June '67) Within You Without You The Beatles (Mar-Apr/June '67) Incense and Peppermints Strawberry Alarm Clock (?/Apr '67) My World Fell Down Sagittarius (?/May '67) Optical Sound The Human Expression (?/May '67) I Live in the Springtime Lemon Drops (?/May '67) Are You Experienced? The Jimi Hendrix Experience (Apr/May '67) Lady Friend The Byrds (Apr/July '67) Astronomy Domine Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) Dropout Boogie Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67) Electricity Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67) Abba Zaba Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Apr/Sep '67)It's Mindrocker Fenwyck (?/July '67) It’s All Too Much The Beatles (May '67/Jan '69) Baby You're a Rich Man The Beatles (May/July '67) Tiny Goddess Nirvana (?/July '67) Sunshine of Your Love Cream (May/Nov '67) Dance the Night Away Cream (May/Nov '67) Tales of Brave Ulysses Cream (May/Nov '67) We're Going Wrong Cream (May/Nov '67) You Know My Name (Look Up the Number) The Beatles (May-June '67, Apr '69/Mar '70) Pow R. Toc H. Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) Interstellar Overdrive Pink Floyd (Apr/Aug '67) EXP The Jimi Hendrix Experience (May-June/Dec '67) If 6 Was 9 The Jimi Hendrix Experience (May-June/Dec '67) Strange Days The Doors (Feb-Aug/Sept '67) When the Music's Over The Doors (Feb-Aug/Sept '67) Bang Bang Vanilla Fudge (?/Aug '67) Stra (Illusions of My Childhood, Pt. 1)/You Keep Me Hangin' ... Vanilla Fudge (?/Aug '67) Old John Robertson The Byrds (June/July '67) Fall Breaks and Back to Winter (W. Woodpecker Symphony) The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) She's Goin' Bald The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Vegetables The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Little Pad The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Wonderful The Beach Boys (June/Sep '67) Conquistador Procol Harum (June? '67/Jan '68) Repent Walpurgis Procol Harum (June? '67/Jan '68) Homburg Procol Harum (June?/Oct '67) Shine on Brightly Procol Harum (June? '67/1997) Burning of the Midnight Lamp The Jimi Hendrix Experience (July/Aug '67) Love and Beauty The Moody Blues (July/Sept '67) Rael 1 The Who (July/Dec '67) Rael 2 The Who (July '67/1994) 2000 Light Years from Home The Rolling Stones (July/Dec '67) Beechwood Park The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Brief Candles The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Hung Up on a Dream The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Butcher's Tale (Western Front 1914) The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Time of the Season The Zombies (June-Aug '67/April '68) Are You Gonna Be There (At the Love-In) Chocolate Watchband (?/Sept '67) Wings of Love Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Lonely Boy Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) In the Courtyard of the Stars Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Pentecost Hotel Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Take This Hand Nirvana (July?/Oct? '67) Life Ain't Easy Nirvana (?/? '67?) The Red Telephone Love (June-Sept/Nov '67) Private Sorrow The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Balloon Burning The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Death The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Well of Destiny The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Dec '68) Defecting Grey The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/Late? '67) Talkin' About the Good Times The Pretty Things (Mid-Late '67/? '68) That's How Much I Love You Baby (More or Less) H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) Let's Get Together H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) The White Ship H.P. Lovecraft (Aug?/Nov '67) Save Yourself Soft Machine (? '67/2001) Lullaby Letter Soft Machine (? '67/2001) Bossa Nova Express Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Hope for Happiness Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Disorganisation Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) I Should've Known Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) Why Are We Sleeping? Soft Machine (Sept '67/2006) I Can See for Miles The Who (Sept/Oct '67) Spazz The Elastik Band (?/Nov '67) I Am the Walrus The Beatles (Sep/Nov '67) Blue Jay Way The Beatles (Sep/Dec '67) Flying The Beatles (Sep/Dec '67) Veruska Spirit (Sept '67/1996) Sing This All Together (See What Happens) The Rolling Stones (Feb-Oct/Dec '67) Gomper The Rolling Stones (Feb-Oct/Dec '67) A Small Package of Value Will Come to You, Shortly Jefferson Airplane (June-Oct/Nov '67) Spare Chaynge Jefferson Airplane (June-Oct/Nov '67) Who Needs the Peace Corps? The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Mom & Dad The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Absolutely Free The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Flower Punk The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Mother People The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Dest The Mothers of Invention (Aug-Oct '67/March '68) Hall of the Mountain King The Who (Oct '67/1994) Lunch Break: Peak Hour The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) The Afternoon: Forever Afternoon (Tuesday?)/Time.. The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) The Night: Nights in White Satin The Moody Blues (Oct/Nov '67) Here We Go 'Round the Mulberry Bush Traffic (?/Nov '67) Heaven Is in Your Mind Traffic (?/Dec '67) No Face, No Name, No Number Traffic (?/Dec '67) Giving to You Traffic (?/Dec '67) Hole in My Shoe Traffic (?/Dec '67) Rondo The Nice (?/Dec '67) War and Peace The Nice (?/Dec '67) Tantalising Maggie The Nice (?/Dec '67) Dawn The Nice (?/Dec '67) If Not This Time Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Fantasy Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Cauldron Fifty Foot Hose (?/Dec '67) Possession Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) You Can't Win Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) So-Lo Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) Fields of Sun Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) Iron Butterfly Theme Iron Butterfly (Oct '67/Jan '68) On Tomorrow Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Flower Pot Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Dirty Blue Gene Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Korn Ring Finger Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band (Oct-Nov '67/? '99) Fresh-Garbage Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Mechanical World Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Elijah Spirit (Nov '67/Jan '68) Free Spirit Spirit (Nov '67/1996) Changes The Zombies (Nov '67/April '68) The American Metaphysical Circus The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Hard Coming Love The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) The Garden of Earthly Delights The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Coming Down The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Love Song for the Dead Ché The United States of America (Dec '67/March '68) Shine on Brightly Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) Skip Softly (My Moonbeams) Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) In Held Twas in I Procol Harum (? '67?/? '68) Flight from Ashiya Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) A Lesson Perhaps Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) The Sky Children Kaleidoscope (?/? '67) H-O-P-P-Why? Hapshash & The Coloured Coat (?/? '67) Reborn Group 1850 (?/? '67) Mother No-Head Group 1850 (?/? '67) What Love (Suite) The Collectors (?/? '67) Yucatan Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '67) A Rainbow in Curved Air Terry Riley (?/? '67) Due Contro Cinque Ennio Morricone (?/? '67) Il Triello (The Trio) (Main Title) Ennio Morricone (?/? '67) Spacecraft~Edit MEV (?/? '67) Alice's Restaurant Massacree Arlo Guthrie (?/? '67) Walter Sly Meets Bill Bailey Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) What's the Point of Leaving Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) Reactions of a Young Man Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera (? '67?/? '68) |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: March 20 2010 at 12:54
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Ok, I'm nearing completion of my references. Here's the year 1968 in Prog.
Comments on whatever you fell like much appreciated!
Song Artist (recorded/released) Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun Pink Floyd (Aug '67-Jan '68/June '68) Legend of a Mind The Moody Blues (Jan/July '68) The Inner Light The Beatles (Jan-Feb '68/Mar '68) Forty Thousand Headmen Traffic (?/Feb '68) Rainbow Chaser Nirvana (?/March '68) Not to Touch the Earth The Doors (Feb/July '68) Spanish Caravan The Doors (Feb-May/July '68) Let There Be More Light Pink Floyd (Jan-May/June '68) A Saucerful of Secrets Pink Floyd (April/June '68) Journey to the Center of the Mind The Amboy Dukes (?/May '68) Soul-Limbo Booker T. & the MG's (?/May '68) Faintly Blowing Kaleidoscope (May '68/April '69) The Actor The Moody Blues (May/July '68) Prelude: Happiness/I'm So Glad Deep Purple (May/July '68) Mandrake Root Deep Purple (May/July '68) Termination Iron Butterfly (Early/July '68) In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida Iron Butterfly (Early/July '68) The Sky Cried- When I Was a Boy Vanilla Fudge (?/June '68) Faceless People Vanilla Fudge (?/June '68) Panis et Circenses Os Mutantes (?/June '68) O Relógio Os Mutantes (?/June '68) Trem Fantasma Os Mutantes (?/June '68) Ave Genghis Khan Os Mutantes (?/June '68) House of Four Doors, Pt. 1 The Moody Blues (Jan-June/July '68) House of Four Doors, Pt. 2 The Moody Blues (Jan-June/July '68) Visions of Paradise The Moody Blues (June/July '68) Om The Moody Blues (June/July '68) Lather Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) Chushingura Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) House at Pooneil Corners Jefferson Airplane (Feb-June '68/Sept '68) Prelude – Nightmare Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) Fanfare - Fire Poem Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) Come and Buy Arthur Brown (June/Aug? '68) It's About Time H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Electrollentando H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) At the Mountains of Madness H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Mobius Trip H.P. Lovecraft (June-July/Sept '68) Waterways (Demo) East of Eden (July '68/2004) In the Stable of the Sphinx (Demo) East of Eden (July '68/2004) Down at Circe's Place Touch (Summer '68/? '69) Seventy-Five Touch (Summer '68/? '69) Withering Tree Traffic (?/Sept '68) Beggar's Farm Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Serenade to a Cuckoo Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Dharma for One Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Cat's Squirrel Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) A Song for Jeffrey Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Round Jethro Tull (June-Aug/Oct '68) Looking Glass The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) Plastic Horizon The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) I Never Know The Gods (Medio '68/? '68) Hard Road (Wring That Neck) Deep Purple (Aug/Sep '68) Anthem Deep Purple (Aug/Sep '68) The Show Must Go On Nirvana (?/Sept '68) Trapeze Nirvana (?/Sept '68) Miami Masquerade Nirvana (?/Sept '68) C Side of Ocho Rios Nirvana (?/? 68) Requiem to John Coltrane Nirvana (?/? 68) Wild Honey Pie The Beatles (Aug/Nov '68) What's the New Mary Jane? The Beatles (Aug '68/'96) Glass Onion The Beatles (Sept/Nov '68) Happiness Is a Warm Gun The Beatles (Sept/Nov '68) ...And the Gods Made Love The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) Moon, Turn the Tides...Gently Gently Away The Jimi Hendrix Experience (?/Oct '68) Hang 'Em High Booker T. & the MG's (?/Oct '68) Cryin' to Be Heard Traffic (?/Oct '68) No Time to Live Traffic (?/Oct '68) Place of My Own Caravan (Oct/? '68) Ride Caravan (Oct/? '68) Intermezzo from the Karelia Suite The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: Prelude The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 2nd Movement – Realisation The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 3rd Mvmnt - Acceptance "Brandenburger" The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: 4th Movement – Denial The Nice (?/Nov '68) Ars Longa Vita Brevis: Coda - Extension to the Big Note The Nice (?/Nov '68) For Pete's Sake Sweet**ter (?/? '68) My Cyrstal Spider Sweet**ter (?/? '68) Through an Old Storybook Sweet**ter (?/? '68) Isadora East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Bathers East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Moth East of Eden (Dec '68/Feb '69) Little Fly Group 1850 (?/? '68) A Point In This Life Group 1850 (?/? '68) Refound Group 1850 (?/? '68) The World Will End Yesterday Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) Mainliner Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) Reality Second Hand (?/Dec? '68) The Day of the Change Andromeda ('68/?) Acidus Andromeda ('67? '68?/?) The Weaver's Answer Family (? '68?/Feb '69) The Battle The Strawbs (? '68/?) Once Upon A Time In The West Ennio Morricone ('68) The Man With The Harmonica Ennio Morricone ('68) Silver Apples of the Moon~Part 1 Morton Subotnick ('68) |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: March 31 2010 at 08:48
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ROLF - if this is the beginners guide - the advanced guide must be terrible. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: April 09 2010 at 11:49
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1969 completes the list of references. This year's list of references is complete except for a few additions that will follow shortly, so here goes: Song Artist (recorded/released) Time Is Tight Booker T. & the MG's (?/Feb '69) Fault Line Deep Purple (Jan-Mar/June '69) April Deep Purple (Jan-Mar/June '69) (Love Song) For Annie Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) If You So Wish Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) Music Kaleidoscope (?/April '69) The Week Looked Good on Paper [*] The Battered Ornaments (?/Spring '69) Space Oddity David Bowie (?/July '69) Shaman's Blues The Doors (?/July '69) Do It The Doors (?/July '69) The Soft Parade The Doors (?/July '69) Drivin' Bachwards Bakerloo (?/July '69) Big Bear Folly Bakerloo (?/July '69) Last Blues Bakerloo (?/July '69) She Belongs to Me Nice (April '69/Sept '69) Hang on to a Dream Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) Diary of an Empty Day Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) For Example Nice (Mid '69/Sept '69) I Want You (She's So Heavy) The Beatles (Jan-Aug/Sept '69) Cygnet Committee David Bowie (June-Sept '69/Nov '69) Wild Eyed Boy from Freecloud David Bowie (June-Sept '69/Nov '69) Leaping Beauties for Rudy/Marcus Junior East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Xhorkom/Ramadhan/In the Snow for a…/Better… East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Gum Arabic/Confucius East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Nymphenburger East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Habibi Baby/Beast of Sweden/Boehm Constrictor East of Eden (June-Sept '69/Feb '70) Sun King The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Mean Mr. Mustard The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Polythene Pam The Beatles (July/Sept '69) She Came in Through the Bathroom Window The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Golden Slumbers The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Carry That Weight The Beatles (July/Sept '69) The End The Beatles (July/Sept '69) Because The Beatles (Aug/Sept '69) Child In Time Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sept/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Third Movement: Vivace – Presto Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sep/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Encore: Third Movement (part) Deep P & the R’l P Or (Sep/Dec '69 (US) Jan '70 (UK)) Late into the Night The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Straggered The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Smoke Rings The Battered Ornaments (?/Autumn? '69) Mediaeval Masquerade [Released as 'I Luv Wight Kaleidoscope (?/? '70?) Prelude Man (?/? '69) The Storm Man (?/? '69) Parchment and Candles Man (?/? '69) Walking Down Their Outlook High Tide (?/? '69) Nowhere High Tide (?/? '69) Kanaan Amon Düül II (?) Luzifers Ghilom Amon Düül II (?) Freak Out Requiem II Amon Düül II (?) Freak Out Requiem III Amon Düül II (?) Turns to Dust: Discovery/Sanctuary/Determination Andromeda (?/? '69) Return to Sanity: Breakdown/Hope/Conclusion Andromeda (?/? '69) When to Stop: the Traveller/Turning Point/Journey's End Andromeda (?/? '69) Return to Exoduss Andromeda (?/? '69) Living Wreck Deep Purple (Oct '69/June '70) Prelude The Collectors ((?/? '69) Things I Remember The Collectors ((?/? '69) Teletype Click The Collectors ((?/? '69) Seventeenth Summer The Collectors ((?/? '69) The Long Rain The Collectors ((?/? '69) Kings and Queens Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Innocence Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Island Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Wanderer Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Bullet Renaissance (?/Dec? '69) Drowned in Wine Family (? '69/Jan '70) Love Is a Sleeper Family (? '69/Jan '70) Wheels Family (? '69/Jan '70) Song for Sinking Lovers Family (? '69/Jan '70) 93's Ok J Family (? '69/Jan '70) Beautiful Daughter The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) Cherry Blossom Clinic Revisited The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) Fields of People The Move (? '69?/Feb '70) To Cry You a Song Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) A Time for Everything? Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) Sossity; You're a Woman Jethro Tull (Dec '69/April '70) Homeland Gentle Giant (? '69?/? 04?) Slaughter on Tenth Avenue The Shadows ('69) Otherness Blue Sun Ra & His Arkestra (?/? '69) Fingal's Cave Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) Rain in the Country Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) Love Scene Pink Floyd (Nov-Dec '69/unreleased) The Sicilian Clan Ennio Morricone ('69) Child in Time Deep Purple (Nov-Dec? '69/June '70) |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: May 14 2010 at 09:50
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Exhaustive but helpful
Cheers ------------- 
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: May 16 2010 at 07:28
Thanks mate.
Accompanying analyses are initiated here on proto-prog's experiments with the harpsichord and mellotron, respectively:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66066 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66066
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66558 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66558
I hope as additional threads are revealed that I will be able to gather the information in a sort of guide to proto-prog.
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 08:48
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In terms of "partial prog songs" and number of artists, proto-prog peaked in 1967, see the table below. This was the essential year to the development of prog, both cross-over prog, prog folk, symphonic prog, space rock and other prog genres. The year after, artists decided to leave the genre (e.g. Rolling Stones, Byrds, Pretty Things, Cream) while others stayed or where attracted to realise the genre (Moody Blues, Traffic, Pink Floyd, The Nice, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull).
Proto-prog is the result of the ideation, conceptualization and development phases of prog - either on a song or an album basis - on either of the prog genres.
Please discuss the development of the first prog song within each of the prog genres, such as:
Proto-prog songs (on the example of Cross-Over Prog)
Ideation years: 1950's, 1960-1964 ("Not a second time" Beatles; "California Girls" Beach Boys; "From the Bottom of my Heart" Moody Blues; "The little Girl I once knew" Beach Boys)
Conceptualization: 1965 ("In My Life" Beatles)
Development: 1966-1967 (e.g. "Pet Sounds"; "Strawberry Fields Forever"; Beach Boys; Moody Blues; Nirvana)
Realization: "The Afternoon" (Moody Blues) ?
Space Rock
Ideation: electro-acoustic music (Ussachecsky)
Conceptualization: Joe Meek
Development: "The Lear Jet Song"; "C.T.A. - 102" (Byrds); "Third Stone from the Sun" (Jimi Hendrix); "I can see for Miles" The Who; "Flying" Beatles)
Realization: "Astronomy Domine" Pink Floyd.
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Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:59
| Would you mind explaining how those first few composers have partial prog songs and what they are? |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 11:27
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^Examples of "partial prog" songs are the intros, outros and mid-sections of Beatles (Lennon) songs like A Hard Days Night, Every Little Thing, I Feel Fine, Ticket To Ride and their mixing in of e.g. classical and polka: In My Life, Girl.
The Beach Boys also did it in California Girls, The Little Girl I Once Knew, Good Vibrations and Here Today.
- not full prog but they appear to be important stepping stones pre-Freak Out!.
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Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 23 2011 at 19:09
What I meant was, do you have the title of the partial prog from those 19th century composers? I'd like to give it a listen. |