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What ever happened to E.L.P.?
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Rick1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 1 hour 21 minutes ago at 03:08
ELP illustrate the life cycle of bands who all go through a creative peak for a few years but can never recapture it, no matter how hard they try. They certainly find it hard over the course of an album. I am a huge ELP fan and I am used to defending them but what ELP had was the ability to put on great live performances right up until their final concert in 2010, which I was lucky enough to be at. Forget this album and that album...
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

agreed on all points. Black Moon seemed okay when it came out but has not aged well, the band had lost all its dynamics and it was not helped either by Mancina's over production (versions of the tracks off the album played live were better at least).


The issue with Black Moon is that there's not enough material on par with the two instrumentals (both of which enjoy better versions on Keith's solo album/compilation issued three years later) and the title track. And, as we know, Greg's voice had already degraded a bit.

"Burning Bridges" isn't bad, but it sounds unfinished to me. "Paper Blood" is an enjoyable tune, tailored to airplay. The ballads are where the album loses me. I keep it for the upbeat tracks.

The less said about Black Moon's successor, the better.
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Originally posted by kirk782 kirk782 wrote:

Edit: Works is a better album than Love Beach and whatever they were trying with Black Moon. The latter was ghastly


To the Power of Three by 3 makes Black Moon sound like Trilogy.
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by kirk782 kirk782 wrote:

Yes, Maybe I do need to re-listen to the album in a quiet place
again. I would probably appreciate it slightly more maybe. I do like
atleast couple of ELP's albums very much [debut and Tarkus],so I am
atleast a partial fan :p. The album does have some bloat and can do with
some toning down, as you said.

Edit: Works is a better album than Love Beach and whatever they were trying with Black Moon. The latter was ghastly



agreed on all points. Black Moon seemed okay when it came out but has not aged well, the band had lost all its dynamics and it was not helped either by Mancina's over production (versions of the tracks off the album played live were better at least). Lake insisted on producing potentially another album around the time they came off their South America tour (97?) but Emerson said 'no' and that was that.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Works is a slow burner but you probably need to be a fan. Back in the day I played Tarkus to death to the point that I started to listen to Works more and realised it was actually a good album. Closer To Believing in fact became a favourite track of mine and still is for me one of Lake's best songs (with help from Peter Sinfield) but like a lot of doubles maybe it could have done with a bit of fat trimming. Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto obviously belonged on a solo album more than anything else on the album that was potentially more adaptable to the band as a whole.
< defer=""


Lake's side is my favorite.  Closer To Believing, Hallowed Be Thy Name, <span style="font-family: " sans", sans-serif;">C'est La Vie...the highlights for me. I like all the compositions.   Side four is my second favorite side. Wink  

Edited by omphaloskepsis - 17 hours 34 minutes ago at 10:55
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Yes, Maybe I do need to re-listen to the album in a quiet place again. I would probably appreciate it slightly more maybe. I do like atleast couple of ELP's albums very much [debut and Tarkus],so I am atleast a partial fan :p. The album does have some bloat and can do with some toning down, as you said.

Edit: Works is a better album than Love Beach and whatever they were trying with Black Moon. The latter was ghastly
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Works is a slow burner but you probably need to be a fan. Back in the day I played Tarkus to death to the point that I started to listen to Works more and realised it was actually a good album. Closer To Believing in fact became a favourite track of mine and still is for me one of Lake's best songs (with help from Peter Sinfield) but like a lot of doubles maybe it could have done with a bit of fat trimming. Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto obviously belonged on a solo album more than anything else on the album that was potentially more adaptable to the band as a whole.
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Points: 239 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2025 at 18:55
I listened to Works Volume 1 yesterday again [the cover of Fanfare for Common Man is on it only, right?] and while the album does has it's moments; honestly,  I only liked two/three songs overall from it's dozen or so selections including the cover mentioned before. The highs of their debut and Tarkus [even some of the shorter songs on that LP appealed to me] seemed to have gone. I think I now have "Love Beach" and their off shoot Emerson, Lake and Powell to listen to apart from archival live recordings which I will get to in due time.
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Humor used to be part of prog.   Not so much anymore.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ELP never get any credit for being eclectic. Other bands can do 'silly songs' (ie Caravan with Golf Girl, Genesis with More Fool Me, Gentle Giant with Dog's Life) and seemingly get away with it. Oh well.
I mean not necessarily disagreeing with you but... based on reviews from this site I think most people don't let Genesis "get away" with that one. 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ELP never get any credit for being eclectic. Other bands can do 'silly songs' (ie Caravan with Golf Girl, Genesis with More Fool Me, Gentle Giant with Dog's Life) and seemingly get away with it. Oh well.


You don't see me complaining about "Benny the Bouncer," do you?

"Hoedown" is one of my favorite ELP compositions, too. Anyone who doesn't like it is off their axis.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ELP never get any credit for being eclectic. Other bands can do 'silly songs' (ie Caravan with Golf Girl, Genesis with More Fool Me, Gentle Giant with Dog's Life) and seemingly get away with it. Oh well.

Hi,

My guess is that Keith's words and comments about serious music, and attempts at being classical, were trashed by a lot of rock critics, that enjoyed the musicianship, but hated the "ditties". And it became fair game, and Keith should have told them all to ... as Frank Zappa did right from the start ... he never had to apologize for his music ... and folks, and reviewers stopped harassing him on it. But, then, it wasn't until "Overnight Sensation" that the rock folks immediately jumped in and started saying what a genius Frank was. So Frank flipped them all off again ... and sold out many places non-stop for several years to his end.

You have to stand up for your music, and not doubt it ... and I think that ELP felt they had to excuse themselves for doing this or that ... and they should have told many of those ... farts ... where to go stuff it! They did not need those goons, not to mention that none of them ever bought an album, either!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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ELP never get any credit for being eclectic. Other bands can do 'silly songs' (ie Caravan with Golf Girl, Genesis with More Fool Me, Gentle Giant with Dog's Life) and seemingly get away with it. Oh well.
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Originally posted by Lobster77 Lobster77 wrote:

like Fuxi said Tarkus, BSS, and Trilogy are all great but their debut is worth a listen too

The debut is my personal favorite. I find it to be the most consistent plus no silly cowboy songs.
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^ Neo prog I agree (although only Marillion's albums from that decade are placed high so it's a moot point) but if ELP had done Works a few years earlier it would not have been received the same backlash that happened in 1977. That and the collapse of the Works orchestral tour and the joke album Love Beach killed them, all happening when the music landscape was changing dramatically. They indeed looked out of place, out of touch and desperately short of ideas. Anyway whatever. ELP had their day, I just wished they hadn't tarnished their legacy and reputations the way they did. Works was just the natural end of things. What came after was entirely pointless and did way more damage imo.

Edited by richardh - March 01 2025 at 01:39
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like Fuxi said Tarkus, BSS, and Trilogy are all great but their debut is worth a listen too
"i'm the average height for my time!!! - Napoleon Bonaparte
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Emerson had force of personality though. That made him a bit different until Rick Wakeman came long then there was that 'fake' rivalry to keep things bubbling along. Remerber Wakeman saying 'Keith Who?' when he was asked his opinion? LMAO!!
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You also forget how so-called punks still loved prog.  For instance, Danny Baker, founder of 'Sniffin' Glue' remains a huge ELP fan.  One point he makes lost in all the noise about ELP albums is their greatness as a live band with Emerson constantly improvising.  Particularly impressive are the trio performances of Pirates after the band were forced to ditch the orchestra on the Works tour. Keep telling me Emerson was just a prog-rock keyboard player...

Edited by Rick1 - February 28 2025 at 05:45
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richardh View Drop Down
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That was all based on either intertia or the ability of the bands to change and adapt at least a little. 1977 was still a good year for prog as the bands were still massive and selling out arenas, yep I know that. I mean these bands still sold loads in the 1980's making some real crap. I'm not sure what your point is? By 1980 it seemed everyone who was anyone was being interviewed in music magazines and were busy apoligising for the 'bad' albums they made with those long self indulgent suites and silly lyrics. That was the problem, the great prog revisionism had begun in 1977 and by the 1980's was stinking up the place to high heaven. I suppose with ELP and many bands it's only the legacy that really matters. Protect that at all cost or pay the price. I'm guessing that ELP sold a lot less later on. ELPowell barely cracked the top 40 in the UK but it was way better than Love Beach (not that that was hard to do) 
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Originally posted by meAsoi meAsoi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

People are too often lead by journalistic opinion but then ELP did bring a lot on themselves, ie touring with a 60 piece orchestra during the summer of punk, losing a million dollars a show (as estimated by Greg Lake at the time) and then deciding to do a commercial album with a dreadful cover. This was a band unhinged and scoring several own goals (to use soccer parlance). It was a long road to recovery .. but then they do In The Hot Seat. In truth they should have stopped after the live triple album and then we would probbaly not even be having this debate.
In the summer of punk, the punk-rock movement, limited to a few London streets and hysteria in a certain music press, was no competition for Keith Emerson. That year, a competition for him could have been, say, Kansas, with their album "Point of Know Return." Or Yes, with their also successful album "Going for the One." But they weren't a problem for Keith Emerson either. The biggest "problem" for him was the fact that he was not Rachmaninoff; the late Keith Emerson was, let's face it, "only" a prog rock keyboardist, and "Piano Concerto No. 1" was still too much for him.

It had nothing to do with competition. ELP were already labelled 'Dinosaurs' as were many other bands in the mainstream rock press. Prog rock had thrived when there was a base of music critics who took them seriously. When that changed it was the beginning of the end. Punk Rock was a much more serious thing than you are crediting it for being and a lot of those guys were well aware of prog bands and even liked them. But too many prog artists were stuck up their own bums and were unable to change. Also plain fact of it is that ELP, Yes, Genesis, Supertramp and many more bands of the classic era were running on fumes and their glory days were in the past. Pink Floyd were always a bit late to the party but kind of adapted because they could see what was happening. ELP should have been too big to fail but history tells us otherwise. His Piano Concerto was indeed a step too far but not because it was bad but because of perception (up own arse and all that). Maybe Love Beach was an attempt to look relaxed and 'hey look at us guys we can get down with the kids etc' . It was utterly unconvincing and actually terrible in a very real way. At least with the Piano Concerto, Keith was being authentic and true to himself. Don't ever lose that or you have nothing.
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