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TheMadCap View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Steely Dan
    Posted: September 23 2007 at 19:05
I'm not one-hundred percent sure about this but I noticed that Steely Dan is not one this website. I think that they would fit into Jazz/Rock Fusion. Their music has a very Jazzy sound to it while still being great rock music. I was wondering if that is what other people thought about this. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2007 at 19:47
i agree steely dan should be here Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2007 at 22:33
I also agree
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 05:31
Mee too.
 
as jazz/rock related
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 05:36
There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes.Unhappy

BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 08:44
I'm not an expert on the Dan but I've never heard them described as a prog rock band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:04
I doubt if they're Prog, they are a very good rock band.
 
Stern%20Smile  (steely smile)
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:04
I will advocate their inclusion each and every time the subject comes up.  I think they'd fit into the eclectic category very nicely.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:36
While the quality and musicianship in Steely Dan's music are undeniable, to include them in PA would be a tricky proposition, and it most likely could not be done without creating a whole new subgenre (i.e. jazz-fusion related) because their music does not truly fit into any of the current subgenres. However, any band that does an impromptu Q&A session with the audience during their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, where the first question was, "Who can tell me who was the original drummer in the Mothers of Invention?" is pretty cool in my book and worthy of inclusion in PA! Cool 

Edited by jimidom - September 24 2007 at 14:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:40
I love them, but no.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 15:58
Defintely not prog, but "My Old School" is a work of geniuses!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:05
I won a Steely Dan single (Dallas) at an Emperor Rosko roadshow in the 70's. I played it once hoping it was like Steeleye Span - it wasn't... I never played it again.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:45
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes.Unhappy

BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention.


exactly... I'll sum up my feelings.... like I did in the last thread that dealt with Steely Dan... last week.

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by cymbaline777 cymbaline777 wrote:

Steely Dan definitely belongs on the sight, the quality of production and musicianship on their albums warrants it. There are already quite a few bands that are a lot less "progressive" then Steely Dan on this site, so why not?


you know... to be honest.....  they are, and if we judged SOLELY upon the music they would, they could be a textbook example of Crossover Prog....but like some other bands... they are too well known to be fairly judged on just their work alone.  They have several strikes against them.... they are american and not european... STRIKE 1...   they were active in the 70's and not generally associated with prog..or even with Art Rock.... STRIKE 2...   have several prominent fans and supporter here who don't want to push this for appearing to be fanboys..  STRIKE 3...

the music itself out-progs prog in many aspects... the lyrical artiness trumps some of the sophomoric or just plain nebulous matter of some other groups..  Want some virtuosos?   Steely Dan were the best band money could buy... 

anyhow...   just do what I do..and enjoy the HELL out of the albums.. whether they are here or not.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:50
I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion.  The song King of the World is one of my favorites.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 17:01
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion. 


fused with popular music....Xover most likely...

  off the top of my head... you have to go to some heavy hitters like Lennon/McCartney,  Jagger/RIchards,  Neil Young, Roger Waters etc.. to find a better songwriter than Donald Fagen.   Again...  judged solely on the basis of their work, and done in a bubble.. .yeah they should probably be here.  But artists... well known ones.. are not judged strictly on the music here... history/perception  is... hell... has to be taken into account.  It is with well known groups already here.. and those on the outside looking in.  Where it becomes interesting is when artists are known for something... yet their career, is in fact,  far more than that and touches HARD upon prog.  That is where additions get tricky... and yes ...I refer to a particular artist hahahhaha Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 17:11
just for sh*ts and giggles.... I am going to see what others think of this.... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:37
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes.Unhappy

BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention.


exactly... I'll sum up my feelings.... like I did in the last thread that dealt with Steely Dan... last week.

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by cymbaline777 cymbaline777 wrote:

Steely Dan definitely belongs on the sight, the quality of production and musicianship on their albums warrants it. There are already quite a few bands that are a lot less "progressive" then Steely Dan on this site, so why not?


you know... to be honest.....  they are, and if we judged SOLELY upon the music they would, they could be a textbook example of Crossover Prog....but like some other bands... they are too well known to be fairly judged on just their work alone.  They have several strikes against them.... they are american and not european... STRIKE 1...   they were active in the 70's and not generally associated with prog..or even with Art Rock.... STRIKE 2...   have several prominent fans and supporter here who don't want to push this for appearing to be fanboys..  STRIKE 3...

the music itself out-progs prog in many aspects... the lyrical artiness trumps some of the sophomoric or just plain nebulous matter of some other groups..  Want some virtuosos?   Steely Dan were the best band money could buy... 

anyhow...   just do what I do..and enjoy the HELL out of the albums.. whether they are here or not.


Just a note re : the 3 strikes - it is true that being american & popular is a great disadvantage when it comes to some PA members accepting that a group may be progressive. Even in their heyday, the only genre that would have fit them was the "Rolling Stone" artificial construct - Rock music, that great aggregation of pop music that wasn't 4/4 time all the time or pop culture disposable top 40, i.e. serious music. As for the lyrics & the instrumental virtuosity, one could also say the same for Stevie Wonder's output during roughly the same period. There are great lyricists in many genres (for example Steve Earle in country, Joe Strummer in punk), and prog does not really have a lock on musical virtuosos, again with many examples to be found in claasical, country, jazz, bluegrass et al.
But they are one of those bands whose music will last for generations. By their second album, they had hit their groove & never looked back.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:48
^ exactly....   I am playing both sides of the fence here... do I think they belong in a prog subgenre.. no I don't.  They simply have no association with prog... and even if I am American... you have to acknowledge that prog during that time WAS primarily European.  Of course that doesn't wash now... but history is history.  Yet I understand completely why so many DO think they do belong here.  I think the middle ground should be found. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:48
Not unless "prog" just means "good." Confused
 
Damn, but turning to the dictionary to define what "progressive" means, music-wise, leads to a LOT of confusion here!
 
Too bad the original "progressive" rock artists and critics hadn't coined an entirely new word for the stuff....
 
 
 
And don't give me that tired old "anti-American" Archives thing again. Country of origin is totally irrelevant. Here's a prog compilation I made, guys: first up is Echoes, then Close to the Edge, then Karn Evil 9, then Hey Nineteen....Wacko
 
Whoops! Stern%20Smile
 
Final thought: Steely Dan makes for good seduction music -- VDGG and Gentle Giant decidedly do not! Pinch
 
(Not even for me....) Wink


Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 18:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:53
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Not unless "prog" just means good.Confused
 
Damn, but turning to the dictionary to define what "progressive" means, music-wise, leads to a LOT of confusion here!
 
Too bad the original "progressive" rock artists and critics hadn't coined an entirely new word for the stuff....
 
 
 
And don't give me that tired old "anti-American" Archives thing again. Country of origin is totally irrelevant. Here's a prog compilation I made, guys: first up is Echoes, then Close to the Edge, then Karn Evil 9, then Hey Nineteen....Wacko
 
Whoops! Stern%20Smile
 
Final thought: Steely Dan makes for good seduction music -- VDGG and Gentle Giant decidedly do not! Pinch


hahahhaha... that is does not... 

let me say though Peter.. .that  anti American thing is is not irrelevant, is alive, and always will be... in the larger umbrellla of  'not being known or considered as prog'  Simple as that.   I'd bet my paycheck.... that if Steely Dan were English....  they'd have been here since the day you joined.  LOLWink
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