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TheMadCap
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Joined: September 17 2007
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Topic: Steely Dan Posted: September 23 2007 at 19:05 |
I'm not one-hundred percent sure about this but I noticed that Steely Dan is not one this website. I think that they would fit into Jazz/Rock Fusion. Their music has a very Jazzy sound to it while still being great rock music. I was wondering if that is what other people thought about this.
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pepefloyd
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Posted: September 23 2007 at 19:47 |
i agree steely dan should be here
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Gentle Tull
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Posted: September 23 2007 at 22:33 |
I also agree
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pero
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Joined: July 11 2005
Location: Croatia
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 05:31 |
Mee too.
as jazz/rock related
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Raff
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 05:36 |
There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes. BTW, there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the matter to their attention.
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chopper
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 08:44 |
I'm not an expert on the Dan but I've never heard them described as a prog rock band.
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mystic fred
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:04 |
I doubt if they're Prog, they are a very good rock band.
(steely smile)
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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Chicapah
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Joined: February 14 2006
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:04 |
I will advocate their inclusion each and every time the subject comes up. I think they'd fit into the eclectic category very nicely.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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jimidom
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:36 |
While the quality and musicianship in Steely Dan's music are undeniable, to include them in PA would be a tricky proposition, and it most likely could not be done without creating a whole new subgenre (i.e. jazz-fusion related) because their music does not truly fit into any of the current subgenres. However, any band that does an impromptu Q&A session with the audience during their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, where the first question was, "Who can tell me who was the original drummer in the Mothers of Invention?" is pretty cool in my book and worthy of inclusion in PA!
Edited by jimidom - September 24 2007 at 14:23
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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Dalezilla
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 11:40 |
I love them, but no.
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ghost_of_morphy
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 15:58 |
Defintely not prog, but "My Old School" is a work of geniuses!!!!
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Dean
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:05 |
I won a Steely Dan single (Dallas) at an Emperor Rosko roadshow in the 70's. I played it once hoping it was like Steeleye Span - it wasn't... I never played it again.
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What?
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micky
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:45 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 16:50 |
I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion. The song King of the World is one of my favorites.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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micky
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 17:01 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
I've always considered them Jazz-Rock/Fusion. |
fused with popular music....Xover most likely...
off the top of my head... you have to go to some heavy hitters
like Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/RIchards, Neil Young, Roger
Waters etc.. to find a better songwriter than Donald Fagen.
Again... judged solely on the basis of their work, and done in a
bubble.. .yeah they should probably be here. But artists... well
known ones.. are not judged strictly on the music here...
history/perception is... hell... has to be taken into
account. It is with well known groups already here.. and those on
the outside looking in. Where it becomes interesting is when
artists are known for something... yet their career, is in fact,
far more than that and touches HARD upon prog. That is where
additions get tricky... and yes ...I refer to a particular artist
hahahhaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 17:11 |
just for sh*ts and giggles.... I am going to see what others think of this....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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debrewguy
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:37 |
micky wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
There are at least three threads on the some subject.. Using the search function could be useful sometimes.
BTW,
there is no such category as Jazz-Rock-Related... The Admin team is
responsible for additions to Prog-Related, so you should bring the
matter to their attention.
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exactly... I'll sum up my feelings.... like I did in the last thread that dealt with Steely Dan... last week.
micky wrote:
cymbaline777 wrote:
Steely Dan definitely belongs on the sight, the
quality of production and musicianship on their albums warrants it.
There are already quite a few bands that are a lot less
"progressive" then Steely Dan on this site, so why not? |
you know... to be honest..... they are, and if we judged SOLELY
upon the music they would, they could be a textbook example of
Crossover Prog....but like some other bands... they are too well known
to be fairly judged on just their work alone. They have several
strikes against them.... they are american and not european... STRIKE
1... they were active in the 70's and not generally
associated with prog..or even with Art Rock.... STRIKE 2...
have several prominent fans and supporter here who don't want to push
this for appearing to be fanboys.. STRIKE 3...
the music itself out-progs prog in many aspects... the lyrical artiness
trumps some of the sophomoric or just plain nebulous matter of some
other groups.. Want some virtuosos? Steely Dan were
the best band money could buy...
anyhow... just do what I do..and enjoy the HELL out of the albums.. whether they are here or not.
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Just a note re : the 3 strikes - it is true that being american & popular is a great disadvantage when it comes to some PA members accepting that a group may be progressive. Even in their heyday, the only genre that would have fit them was the "Rolling Stone" artificial construct - Rock music, that great aggregation of pop music that wasn't 4/4 time all the time or pop culture disposable top 40, i.e. serious music. As for the lyrics & the instrumental virtuosity, one could also say the same for Stevie Wonder's output during roughly the same period. There are great lyricists in many genres (for example Steve Earle in country, Joe Strummer in punk), and prog does not really have a lock on musical virtuosos, again with many examples to be found in claasical, country, jazz, bluegrass et al. But they are one of those bands whose music will last for generations. By their second album, they had hit their groove & never looked back.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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micky
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:48 |
^ exactly.... I am playing both sides of the fence here... do I
think they belong in a prog subgenre.. no I don't. They simply
have no association with prog... and even if I am American... you have
to acknowledge that prog during that time WAS primarily European.
Of course that doesn't wash now... but history is history. Yet I
understand completely why so many DO think they do belong here. I
think the middle ground should be found.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Peter
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:48 |
Not unless "prog" just means "good."
Damn, but turning to the dictionary to define what "progressive" means, music-wise, leads to a LOT of confusion here!
Too bad the original "progressive" rock artists and critics hadn't coined an entirely new word for the stuff....
And don't give me that tired old "anti-American" Archives thing again. Country of origin is totally irrelevant. Here's a prog compilation I made, guys: first up is Echoes, then Close to the Edge, then Karn Evil 9, then Hey Nineteen....
Whoops!
Final thought: Steely Dan makes for good seduction music -- VDGG and Gentle Giant decidedly do not!
(Not even for me....)
Edited by Peter - September 24 2007 at 18:53
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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micky
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Posted: September 24 2007 at 18:53 |
Peter wrote:
Not unless "prog" just means good.
Damn, but turning to the dictionary to define what "progressive" means, music-wise, leads to a LOT of confusion here!
Too bad the original "progressive" rock artists and critics hadn't coined an entirely new word for the stuff....
And don't give me that tired old "anti-American" Archives thing
again. Country of origin is totally irrelevant. Here's a prog
compilation I made, guys: first up is Echoes, then Close to the Edge,
then Karn Evil 9, then Hey Nineteen....
Whoops!
Final thought: Steely Dan makes for good seduction music -- VDGG and Gentle Giant decidedly do not! |
hahahhaha... that is does not...
let me say though Peter.. .that anti American thing is is not
irrelevant, is alive, and always will be... in the larger umbrellla
of 'not being known or considered as prog' Simple as
that. I'd bet my paycheck.... that if Steely Dan were
English.... they'd have been here since the day you joined.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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