QUESTION about King Crimson's no video policy
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Topic: QUESTION about King Crimson's no video policy
Posted By: DBJetsman
Subject: QUESTION about King Crimson's no video policy
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 02:31
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Although Fripp is a musical genius, I'm pretty surprised that these guys are like the only band that gives a crap if they're videoed. I'm going to the Los Angeles show on October 1st and was wondering if security at the venues actually patrol Fripp's "video with your eyes and record with your ears" BS statement, because I really wanna video like 1 or 2 songs without getting thrown out or pissing Fripp off enough to leave lol.
I really understand the "enjoy the show in the moment and not on a phone screen", as I'm not filming probably 90% of concerts. But these guys need to understand that they wouldn't be where they are without us fans attending shows. As long as the filmers aren't blocking others' views and their phones aren't on full-brightness or accidentally snapping flash photos, how can that really be a "distraction" for the band or even audience? Anyways, just wanted to get a quick question answered from someone who went to a Crimson show this year :) ------------- "...we hope to give you something far more substantial and fulfilling. All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - Gentle Giant |
Replies:
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 05:26
| The same thing was said at the recent Kate Bush shows and I didn't see anyone trying to video it. I guess they're just trying to stop crap videos of them being uploaded to YouTube. Just wait for the DVD. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 05:51
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Yes the ushers patrol the floor and stop people recording and I've been at gigs where Fripp has stopped a gig due to photograhy. Put the camera away and respect the artists wishes and the terms of sales of the ticket. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: PabstRibbon
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 06:54
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Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 07:25
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Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: September 30 2014 at 07:27
Well said...
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Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: October 01 2014 at 08:05
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The latest KC tour is so good, I don't see why anyone would waste time trying to record it. If Fripp would guarantee at the beginning of the show that some sort of video/audio recollection of the show was forthcoming it would probably keep people from feeling the necessity to record the show. He makes things more difficult for himself by omitting this reassurance. If he doesn't release a DVD/video of this tour he is shooting himself in the foot. This tour was such a fantastic listening AND VIEWING experience, he'd be a fool not to release some retrospective of it. If you enjoy WATCHING and hearing musicians manipulate their tools of the trade, this is the show to see. Considering that, I can totally understand how fans would be tempted to record it. RELEASE THE DAMN SHOW ON DVD, FRIPP! (or at least mention that it will be considered). This will make your fans happy and maybe you can concentrate on the show and not worry about people trying to record. ------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 01 2014 at 08:30
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Modern fans don't care what the artist wants they just think its their right to do as they like. I think the only way Fripp gets his message across is by using a heavy handed approach. Fortunately so far it sounds like most fans are respecting it. With regard to camera being the same as people jumping up and down thats clearly not Fripp's experience. I've seen him walk off stage due to photography but never due to people having a good time. Clearly he finds it distracting.
I'm hoping they release a dvd & an album of the tour but mainly I'm hoping they enjoy this so much they decide to record new material. Whether or not they do any of those things should not impact the patrons respecting the artists wishes. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: October 01 2014 at 17:06
| Sorry to break it to you all, but it has nothing to do with Fripp being a delicate genius who's afraid of cameras. It's all about the money. I don't blame him though. He works too hard and kicks too much butt to not be making money from people who want the live experience for free. At least he finally realized that, practically speaking, he'd be better off selling songs on itunes than giving lazy internet junkies an excuse to illegally download 21st Century Schizoid Man anywhere else. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 01 2014 at 19:26
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So glad you know Fripp so well & you decided to share, we'd never have worked it out without you.
------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Gully Foyle
Date Posted: October 01 2014 at 19:26
Well, Fripp is pretty focused on not getting screwed financially, which is fine and right for an artist, but i have to disagree on the photos thing. I think the thing is that not only is he just an insane musician and guitarist, but he is batsh*t crazy in lots of other ways too. I am fully convinced that he 100% believes that taking photos or recording messes with the metaphysical connection with the platonic ideals of music he seeks. Take it or leave it, but i dig his stuff, so i'll take it.
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Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: October 23 2014 at 14:28
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In the 90's and 2000's, I read everything that Robert Fripp wrote, on the web and in his liner notes. Fripp has a spirituality of music in which the act of performance is like an act of worship. He believes that Music, the Performer, and the Audience form a sacred triangle where each side has to do its part. When the Audience decides to record, photograph, or video the performance, they are removing themselves from the event. They are no longer participating as an active listener. Instead, they are present as an observer, or a collector of something to be enjoyed later. Fripp compares this to "Pissing in the Communion Wine." A sacred event is ruined by an individual's thoughtless, selfish act. Whether or not you accept his view on the matter, it should at least be clear that for him, this is about more than money or just being a fussy diva. ------------- sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 08:31
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Fripp has always been a tight-assed prig.....still, I respect what he's done and (having never owned a cell phone, video camera, still camera, or portable taping device) would have no problem abiding by his wishes. Just wish the tour hit more than NYC, LA and Chicago/Milwaukee. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 08:36
Fripp is grumpy that's his problem and Bruford is hot  plus he is funny too  
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Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 15:57
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I went to the 1st night of the SF shows and had an AMAZING experience. I was staring at the band the entire time. That being said, I totally snapped a few pictures during the first few minutes of the show because it's Fripp & King Crimson... OF COURSE I want a picture of that experience. But to be respectful I took a few at the beginning of the set and put my phone away for the rest of the night... Except to take a short video during the climax of Starless... again... it's KING CRIMSON!!! I've gone back and watched that video so many times now to relive that amazing concert and to show my friends who were not able to attend. The memories are forever in my brain, but I've also got tangible memories of this show with a few pictures and short video. I did not ruin the show for myself, the band, or anyone in attendance. I have such respect for Fripp & KC... and I think it's fine to snap a few pics and still enjoy the show with your eyes and ears. ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 06:14
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Bootleg videos are inherently crappy and making one means that you are being distracted and likely interrupting others if you are getting in the way. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 07:55
You have such respect that you ignored his specific and repeated requests for your personal gratification?  ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: November 12 2014 at 08:12
 ------------- |
Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: November 26 2014 at 16:21
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If I had been busy trying to take a "viddie" at the Albany shows in September, I wouldn't have been able to grab Pat's broken stick that he slid across the stage floor to me on the 2nd night. I'll wait for the official video release(s) of this tour - I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Fripp will be releasing a DVD/Bluray of one or more nights of this tour. How could he not? I've seen Crim on every US tour since 1995, this tour was by far the most pleasing. |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: November 26 2014 at 19:38
lol ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: November 27 2014 at 03:58
| As I understand it, there will be no DVD release of the King Crimson 2014 shows, especially the California performances. To the best of my knowledge, no official video recorders were present. Robert and Jakko have announced that the Los Angeles Orpheum performance(s) WILL be released in audio form in January 2015. They were that good. DGM on Twitter should keep you updated. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 13 2014 at 17:42
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Hi,
I'm not sure a DVD would make this band sound/look any better than what they just did.
There is, really, nothing to see and us keeping our fan-hats on the person we like, means we're not really listening, or closing our eyes, and just flying with the music.
I agree with the no DVD thing ... but I would like to see more of the stuff they did released on CD ... but it is Robert's choice, not mine and I will accept that as the artist's right to do so with his work! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: December 13 2014 at 18:49
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No offense to Fripp, whom I have immense respect for, but it seems rather entitled to have such a petty rule enforced, and very strictly, no doubt. Fripp has absolutely earned his respect and success, but even if I knew I was the world's greatest guitarist, I would have the up most respect and thanks for my fans. This includes wanting them to have the best time possible at my shows (especially if tickets are upwards of a hundred dollars!!!), and if that means them taking some pictures and/or video, that's no skin off my back. Now, if people are constantly shoving a camera in your face, I can see having those people warned and/or removed, but that's certainly no reason to ban it outright. Still, if I went to a KC concert, I'd much rather sit and enjoy the show than risk getting kicked out for a few measly, probably blurry pictures. |
Posted By: puma
Date Posted: December 22 2014 at 11:51
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It's so simple. Just don't do it! Start your own band and tell everyone to film and photo the whole thing. Maybe you'll start a cool culture of a ton of fans actively sharing the experiences and enriching new and old fans alike. Maybe you'll end up with a bunch of people crowded in a room staring at gadgets and ignoring your music. I saw http://bentknee.bandcamp.com/album/shiny-eyed-babies" rel="nofollow - Bent Knee perform in Boston a few weeks ago, and intermittently between their emotional, delicate, complex arrangements, three or four photographers were elbowing past me to take photos of "moments" they thought were important to capture. It was distracting because this music involves a lot of attention to appreciate, and the presence of photographers made it hard for those of us who were actually there to let the music sink in as deeply as I know it can. Just don't take any darn pictures of King Crimson. They go out of their way to ask you not to do it.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: December 22 2014 at 12:36
The (single) word you're looking for is utmost. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: December 22 2014 at 13:51
I saw Bent Knee earlier this year supporting Mike Keneally, they were great. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 24 2014 at 14:01
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They've put out some really decent official videos, I see no need to waste money on bootlegs... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 26 2014 at 09:27
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Hi,
So weird to see folks "demanding" something from Fripp ... he's not a cow for you to milk!!!!!
It's just sick!
Funny thing, we don't go see Stravinsky with the local orchestra and then go home and demand a DVD!
Totally bizarre and so out of line it's not funny! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 26 2014 at 16:23
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I think that Fripp's "no photos, no videos" policy is on the money. His recording, played before the show in Chicago, had him encouraging us to use our memories and senses, rather than recording technology, to keep the concert memory fresh. Personally, I'm burned out at going to concerts and having the glowing screens of cell phones flashing back at me! Very visually distracting. The Chicago show did require some concentration in order to hear all the nuances of the percussion and instrumental passages. I did see the LTIA tour in Chicago in 1973, but Jamie Muir wasn't with the band, so I missed out on his amazing contributions on percussion. Pat Mastelotto did a fantastic job with these very subtle passages, and I am glad that I listened and remembered as RF had urged! As far as concert DVDs....my guess is that something will show up by DGM. Let's wait and see, Fripp is pretty savvy about the new marketing techniques for rock. Porcupine Tree is one band that has done very well with the concert DVD model, and he has surely learned much from his interactions with that band. Happy Holidays, Chuck  |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 28 2014 at 12:26
The Grateful Dead DID this and they made more money than most other bands!
It's up to Robert. If it is an ego thing, then his work will suffer after he departs. The same thing is happening right now with the sad state of the Zappa estate and its trustees. They don't know music, and fans just want the solos released, so the star stays born and alive! This is also the sad state of my family's affairs, where the "star" is going to kill everything that will be left behind and the children will get nothing for it at all. As I said before, in every house and country there is a God and the children (or fan in this case) don't always mean anything! PERIOD!
This, is definitly what Robert is not interested in, but after he's gone, 10/20 years later, not everyone thinks the same thing, and times change.
Even though I would not purchase it all, it would be best for it all to be out there. And Robert should know that there are no "mistakes" and no such thing as "perfection" ... since each day is different, and it becomes nothing but a mind exercise that thinks one day is better than the other.
The show in Seattle was right after LA, and it was magnificent. And I, would find it hard to believe that anywhere else could have had it any better, so saying LA was better, than the Seattle show makes it hard to swallow. Well, we know that Tony had a cold ... but we didn't see the snot run down his bass guitar during the show, though I think his energy level was a bit low, but I doubt that anyone could see the music suffer on that account. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: December 28 2014 at 14:33
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 18 2015 at 12:30
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As should be. An experience is not something that you need to have a recording of. Like time with your favorite person, and memory!
I'm positive that it was the same in all the other shows. The Seattle show had my ol'e roomie saying how any other music sounded so bland by comparison!
There are things that need a DVD. Mostly because no one else will ever have any idea of what it is that you can experience, and find out what it means to so many of us. The folks in Montana and Dakotas, can not see a show by KC, and will never have that pleasure, and what we, in a way very ellitist btw, are saying is that ... too bad ... I got to experience it and you didn't. But a DVD, at that point would be as good as a CD for me, although I do not exactly need the visual to keep me going, specially when the camera work and directing is so bad and ridiculous, and a total waste of the music and its special moments! Almost everyone of those folks doing these shows, do not know what "directing" is, and will lose special moments, because they do not know the music, and switch visual to someone else, when another person is actually doing a solo. This happened, for example with Gong, when one of the camera folks was on Daevid, and he played up to it, and as soon as he got started the camera light went off and to someone else, taking the focus off the words and his expressions ... what a f**king waste! And I would have fired that director on the spot! And worse ... they had no idea how to film Magma! Other examples: There are other moments ... when you see something ... and it is good ... but it's missing a spark. This was the case with Nektar's DVD ... and I was sad, because I saw them in their glory days, and the energy and love for it was gone. It felt like it had to be done for a new audience, or a bunch of geriatric hippies left over ... and by the end, I was not enjoying it. GONG dvd's are frustrating to the max ... horribly photographed and no sense of what the music is about anyway! I've always told Johnny Green (Gas) to stop hiring morons and get someone serious and I would do it for free ... get me on the plane ... but that lousy directing concept from MTV has been dead for 30 years! Zappa ... 3 DVD's. Exhilerating, because you know the guy is very good conductor with his band and he knows what he is doing ... and some musicians are giving it back to him! But I bet he told some of the camera folks that you can't move beyond that spot and such, to prevent distractions that shouldn't be there! KC ... I probably would have done this, as I would a serious concert by an orchestra. But, knowing the music has to be a serious requirement by the camera folks and director, and this is where things fail 99/100 times. A camera, nowadays, has enough lens capability to make closeups and not be intimidating or abusive, and these could be used to perfection to examine the ability of some of the folks in the band. The problem is, that you will have to , to split the screen so you can see 6 folks soloing together! Now ... I LIKE THAT CHALLENGE! Up yours Marty! Hammill/VdGG ... Probably the least important grouping to create a DVD on, but a design of the concept of the shoot would be important without the MTV sequence of shots to help Peter bring out the band, and the band to bring out Peter. And his solo moments, on piano, for example, need to be shot very tight, carefully and with total respect, by not switching shots and distracting it from the piece itself. all in all, ELP would have been a nice shoot for a DVD, except that they wasted it. The musicianship is a natural for the camera, except that it was destroyed by bad directing and lousy concept design. Genesis, would have been great during the costume days, but MTV was still asleep in those days, and we had not learned anything from Betamax and Deep Throat, yet! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |