...And Then There Were Three...
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Topic: ...And Then There Were Three...
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Subject: ...And Then There Were Three...
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 23:48
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So, most seem to think that And Then There Were Three was Genesis's first album where they went pop. To my ears, it sounds like a more condensed Wind and Wuthering. I feel bad for those who haven't given it a listen but liked Wind and Wuthering. I feel as if most would really like this album as well.
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Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 23:53
| No because Wind and Wuthering at least has a couple passable songs on it |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: August 14 2014 at 23:58
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I like ...And Then There Were Three, but I would be only fooling myself if I claimed to love it. Down And Out, Undertow, Deep In The Motherlode, and Snowbound are my favorites, but little else has touched me. For me, Hackett's departure is where I personally step foot off the grand ship Genesis and bid farewell to one of my favorite bands.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 00:23
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It shares similarities, sure, it is the same band, sort of, but the two are very different albums. Genesis has nothing in their catalogue that sounds quite like ATTWT. Without Hackett, the remaining three were exploring new sounds, and soon opted for the more commercial sound we hear the first inkling of on this album. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 01:03
| A big YES without question. Short-song format notwithstanding, (most of) these songs fit the Prog bill quite nicely..... |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 01:14
| It's a good album but lacks the Hackett magic---and Hackett could have made this a great album by adding his thing to it had he still been in the group. So, it doesn't sound like WandW --which I think is a great album. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 01:34
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Voted NO W&W is quite messy and disjointed . ATTWT is a very nicely ordered album with some very punchy (if short) prog tracks mixed in with commercial ballads that were pointing the direction they were going in. I prefer it to W&W which was an attempt to cling on to former glories and only succeeded with One For The Vine and Blood On The Rooftops. Hackett leaving brought the best out of the others I believe. Collins drumming went up a notch compared to his generally uninspired efforts on W&W and Banks synth work is amongst his very best..
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Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 02:13
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An interesting perspective, richardh. I will agree the drumming on this album is absolutely stellar and if you like Banks keyboards, this album is absolutely essential.
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Posted By: snowsnow
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 02:21
+1 |
twosteves wrote:Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 02:25
| I always thought that regarding Phil's drumming on this album, he injected a bit of that Brand X technicality to the proceedings. Not to mention that Banks is on fire.....that ARP of his may well have packed it in after this album...... |
Posted By: JesusisLord
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 02:31
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Lacked the Hackett Magic for sure, but a very good album ….. The follow up, Duke was even better…After Duke, I lost all interest….. ------------- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:11 |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 02:40
| ^ After Duke, most Proggers must've been up the creek without a paddle (so they say). Coming into this whole Genesis-Prog affair after the fact (late 80's), I do respect these crossover attempts during their later career, but nothing compares to their 70's output. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 03:09
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I'd say yes, though W&W is way better and Steve Hackett's departure is a sore loss. But there are some similarities in atmosphere. ------------- 
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 03:19
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Wind and Wuthering marked the start of the decrease in prog content of albums by Genesis - the start of the slippery slope, so to speak. ATTWT just carried it on. The main difference is the much lower quality of the guitar playing, but in other areas, it's pretty similar - just a bit worse. After that, the wheels came right off the Genesis juggernaut for me and it ploughed completely out of control into pop rock territory.
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Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 05:19
I see what you mean and I put yes. You can track the band's change with each album really (except maybe the debut to Trespass), and on ATTWT, they sounded a bit lost without Hackett... Couple of good songs though, but on the whole weak for a Genesis album and I much prefer Duke! 
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Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 05:47
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Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 07:22
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not familiar with it as much, though i like Down and Out and am a big fan of the hit (you know it, now don't make fun of me lol). so no vote here. ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 07:22
I highly disagree that Wind & Wuthering is messy and disjointed. I think it's one of their best post-Gabriel attempts along with A Trick of the Tail. Two very fine albums. Sure, Wind & Wuthering isn't perfect, but no album is actually perfect. I could do without All In A Mouse's Night and Your Own Special Way, but even these songs have their redeeming qualities. The 'trilogy' of Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers/...In That Quiet Earth/Afterglow is one of the greatest things they've done IMHO. Anyway, like I said, I lost interest once Hackett abandoned ship. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 07:30
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Voted yes, with a little reluctance. It's closer to WAW in feel than it is to Duke imo. In places at least. Both albums have weak points..
However, ATTWT is still one my favourite Genesis albums. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 08:19
I'd illustrate your comment pointing out that the three W&W instrumentals (Wot Gorilla?, …in That Quiet Earth and Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers…) clearly show their 'conservative' attempt. I like these three pieces but I think ATTWT more clearly shows Phil's new ideas. -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: Hans il mercante
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 09:55
| I can't vote, but I think Yes and No, it's a fine album, and for me ATTWT works more a a whole, W&W shines from time to time, I think they where trying to hard to keep the pace and do what they have done, instead ATTWT it's a clean cut from the past glory, and by the way, I prefer to listen to it on vinyl, it sound so much better that my cd version, it has more punch, something that the cd does not reproduce pretty well, listen to the drums on that one, even on the ballads will put a smile on your face. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 11:33
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Not really. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 13:14
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No, two very different albums. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 13:24
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W & W was the start of Poppy Genesis with 'Your Own Special Way' or maybe it was 'Ripples' or was it 'Carpet Crawlers' oh sorry I don't remember. But, just to say that ATTWT was not the beginning of Pop Genesis Stylie. The two albums have similarities of course ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 15:32
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Yes, it still has that warm, overwhelming prog sound and story telling qualities. But of course, there are great differences too.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 15:48
| ATTWT is a big step up from the back peddling W&W with Collins indeed coming alive and David Henschel's production really put the icing on the cake. I'm still not sure what their beef was with him over their studio sound. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 16:49
You forgot just one thing: during the middle seventies the first two Genesis songs which I enjoyed (I Know What I like ...In Your Wardrobe and Follow You Follow Me) were also responsible for making so many fans at that times. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 17:10
You are right Rick, I know what I like is the song that even Genesis musicians took as their first pseudo pop attempt. Which this song they were invited to Top of the Pops and they refused to go. In any case Your own special way is a stunning ballad with great lyrics for a ballad, and Ripples it is not a pop song IMO.
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Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 17:15
| I find similarities, mainly because the main songwritters are still the same, Banks and Rutherford, specially Banks. Of course that there are less lead guitar solos (Rutherford and Banks always said that about ATTWT as a negative point). IMO Wind & wuthering is a masterpice, and ATTWT an almost 5 stars album. The atmosphere on both two has similarities too. There is an important difference in the lyrics, though ATTWT has great prog lyrics too. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 18:01
Anyway, my point was just that 'And then there were Three wasn't Genesis' first venture into popular music. And not to provide a comprehensive list of their 'pop' songs... (I still think Ripples is a pop song). And I realise that I Know WHat I Like introduced many to their music and I was not being critical (I like the song). ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 18:18
That's ok, sorry about my misunderstanding. Agree with you that ATTWT was not their first ventue into popular music. In an interview that I read many years ago, Banks said that they tried to do pop songs in those times, but they didn't know well how to do them, and he mentioned as example Counting out time and Carpet crawlers.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 22:21
| Of course they will have some similarities, since they are the same band, but taking that in consideration I think they made a rather big change in their sound. And, at least in some of the songs from ATTWT, I think they went in a proggier direction than before (despite the fact that they only had shorter tracks on this one)... something like Genesis meets ELP (of course, having ended up with a trio - perhaps even power trio - line-up lead by keyboards). |
Posted By: claugroi
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 22:41
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Totally. When I first heard Burning Rope I thought "Wait a minute, didn't I hear this on Wind and Wuthering ??". I think the period of a year was too short for the band to change very much. They only began to change from Duke on. There are some obvious differences like the very pop Follow You Follow Me and the more direct, straightforward rock Deep in the Motherlode, but, in general, I think both albums have a similar atmosphere, with ATTWT being a little darker. ------------- Symphonic Prog Master |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: August 15 2014 at 22:55
 Wind & Wuthering was released in December of 1976 while ...And Then There Were Three was released in March of 1978.------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 03:12
A Trick Of The Tail is superb and amongst my favourite prog albums Wind and Wuthering sounds like about 3 different prog albums mashed together. I think the band didn't know what to do at this point direction wise. ATTWT has a much nicer flow to my ears. I like the mix of commercial and prog material. I'm not averse to a bit of 'crossover' and essentially this is what Genesis were becoming. What can I say? I just enjoy it more and Collins drumming on the heavier tracks like Down and Out and Burning Rope is an absolute treat .Hackett is an exceptional artist of course but it was not a deal breaker for me that he left Genesis. Duke was another album I enjoy and the live show they did around that time at the Lyceum is the best I've ever heard by any prog band.
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Posted By: Kazza3
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 04:33
| Of course they share many similarities, but there are, of course, many differences. I love Wind & Wuthering, the whole album sounds like a beautiful painting. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 13:18
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No...they're not that simliar to me and I feel that Wind is the last really good album they did.
All the rest have some decent tracks but they don't have that Genesis magic for me.
But then I have always been a fan of the Gabriel years and then after Hackett left they were never the same and the music changed too much for my taste. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 18:02
| We forget that when Hackett departed our beloved Genesis, we did get a 'different' Genesis, but we also got an amazing stream of Hackett solo albums to indulge in. And even he wasn't immune to cheezy trends either. |
Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 18:10
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Posted By: claugroi
Date Posted: August 16 2014 at 22:51
Well, a little more than a year, but less than a year and a half. You get the idea... ------------- Symphonic Prog Master |
Posted By: Billy Pilgrim
Date Posted: August 17 2014 at 02:42
| Burning Rope is my favorite post Gabriel Genesis song. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 17 2014 at 03:25
Calling All Stations should've been called .....And Then There Were Two...... 
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 17 2014 at 19:42
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |