Print Page | Close Window

Concept instrumental albums

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=99000
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 20:17
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Concept instrumental albums
Posted By: aapatsos
Subject: Concept instrumental albums
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 07:17
A Game of Chess

I have been listening to "Red Queen to Gryphon Three" a lot lately, which reminded me that there is another interesting aspect of progressive rock worth exploring: concept instrumental albums.

Although the definition of a concept instrumental album can be more difficult/vague when compared to one backed up with lyrics, there are albums that create this "concept" feeling even if there is no singing going on.

What are some of the "stated" (i.e. the artist has mentioned there is a concept) and "unstated" (left to the understanding of the listener) concept instrumentals you listen to and enjoy?
Have you discovered anything special that draws you back to listening to a specific album?
Do concept instrumental albums have a "kind of magic"?

Big smile



Replies:
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 08:06
haven't heard it but "The Snow Goose"... arguably the most popular of these (ADER!!!)

-------------
Progrockdude


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 11:28
Hi,
 
A lot of Mike Oldfield also fits!
 
But we have to be careful, because we're expecting the instrumentation to "tell us a story" and sometimes we don't get it, and have no idea what it is.
 
So next time you ask that question, ponder the same question for one of Beethoven's 9 Symphonies! All of a sudden your question comes off a bit strange and weird. And then there is Mahler ... his wife walked out on him, and on that day he had just finished a Symphony ... for HER!
 
The concept is an idea. And not everything out there is based on "ideas".


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 12:03
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

A Game of Chess

I have been listening to "Red Queen to Gryphon Three" a lot lately, which reminded me that there is another interesting aspect of progressive rock worth exploring: concept instrumental albums.

Although the definition of a concept instrumental album can be more difficult/vague when compared to one backed up with lyrics, there are albums that create this "concept" feeling even if there is no singing going on.

What are some of the "stated" (i.e. the artist has mentioned there is a concept) and "unstated" (left to the understanding of the listener) concept instrumentals you listen to and enjoy?
Have you discovered anything special that draws you back to listening to a specific album?
Do concept instrumental albums have a "kind of magic"?

Big smile


I don't primarily care much about concepts but if you're looking for a great instrumental album, try Djam Karet's The Trip. It's just one song, very well thought out. And if you're a Floyd fan it's a lot of fun finding all the clues to their albums.
Stellar reviews here  http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=41349


Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 13:21
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

A Game of Chess

I have been listening to "Red Queen to Gryphon Three" a lot lately, which reminded me that there is another interesting aspect of progressive rock worth exploring: concept instrumental albums.


I was just listening to Duke by Genesis and the album starts out in exact the same way.  Duke came
about five years later. 


-------------
--
Robert Pearson
Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net
Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net




Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 15:09
I've been listening to Bo Hanson's `Music Inspired by "Watership Down" lately, possibly one of the loveliest and most gentle instrumental concept albums! Highly recommended!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 19 2014 at 19:05
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
 
A lot of Mike Oldfield also fits!
 
But we have to be careful, because we're expecting the instrumentation to "tell us a story" and sometimes we don't get it, and have no idea what it is.
 
So next time you ask that question, ponder the same question for one of Beethoven's 9 Symphonies! All of a sudden your question comes off a bit strange and weird. And then there is Mahler ... his wife walked out on him, and on that day he had just finished a Symphony ... for HER!
 
The concept is an idea. And not everything out there is based on "ideas".
Would you say then that the musical concepts that work are those where we already know the backstory, ie those that are based upon well-known existing work, such as Watership Down, Lord Of The Rings or The Snow Goose... or those themed albums that are intended to provide instrumental vignettes to characters such as The Six Wives of Henry VIII or inspired on objects such as the cards in a Tarot deck? [no clues... this is a pop quiz - name that album]

Concepts are ideas but not all ideas are not concepts, therefore not all instrumentals are concepts, whether they are based upon an idea or not. Several of Beethoven's symphonies are certainly themed, but they ain't concepts and while Mahler produced two symphonies kinda-inspired by his love for Alma Schindler, neither are concepts and as far as I recall she stayed with him until his death and didn't walk out on him - maybe you're confusing Mahler's biography with Ken Russell's poetically fictionalised film script... (dunno, it's been around 40 years since I saw the film, my memory's good but not that good)

Holst's Planet Suite is most definitely a concept, but Handel's Music For The Royal Fireworks and Tichycoughski's 1812 Overture are commemorative pieces based upon ideas but are not conceptual.


-------------
What?


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 02:15
Incantations is probably my favourite whether it be an 'idea' or a 'concept' or whatever. It works for me and feels very complete. I like the fact that he had this 'idea' and developed it as far as it could go. Many would say it was stretched out but hey ho.

For me Vangelis was brilliant at creating an 'organised' album that stays true to one idea. There are plenty of examples such as Beauborg , China, Soil Festivities but I guess I would end up naming just about every album he's made!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 03:23
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Incantations is probably my favourite whether it be an 'idea' or a 'concept' or whatever. It works for me and feels very complete. I like the fact that he had this 'idea' and developed it as far as it could go. Many would say it was stretched out but hey ho.
For me The Song of Hiawatha and Ode to Cynthia would tend to disqualify Incantations as being an instrumental album and Hiawatha is a little "off topic" for the album's goddess concept. However, I do understand where you are coming from, this was the first Oldfield album that popped into my head when Pedro mentioned that a lot of Oldfield fits (in reality only some of his fits in my estimation but strange as it seems, I'm not here to argue finer details since some of his albums are indeed instrumental concept albums).


-------------
What?


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 03:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Incantations is probably my favourite whether it be an 'idea' or a 'concept' or whatever. It works for me and feels very complete. I like the fact that he had this 'idea' and developed it as far as it could go. Many would say it was stretched out but hey ho.
For me The Song of Hiawatha and Ode to Cynthia would tend to disqualify Incantations as being an instrumental album and Hiawatha is a little "off topic" for the album's goddess concept. However, I do understand where you are coming from, this was the first Oldfield album that popped into my head when Pedro mentioned that a lot of Oldfield fits (in reality only some of his fits in my estimation but strange as it seems, I'm not here to argue finer details since some of his albums are indeed instrumental concept albums).

Also 'Diana' as well I suppose. Does any Oldfield qualify as purely instrumental. I guess if someone is just singing 'Ommadawn' that still using the voice as an instrument rather than singing a song?

BTW Claire Hammill's Voices. Instrumental or not?Smile


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 04:26
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Incantations is probably my favourite whether it be an 'idea' or a 'concept' or whatever. It works for me and feels very complete. I like the fact that he had this 'idea' and developed it as far as it could go. Many would say it was stretched out but hey ho.
For me The Song of Hiawatha and Ode to Cynthia would tend to disqualify Incantations as being an instrumental album and Hiawatha is a little "off topic" for the album's goddess concept. However, I do understand where you are coming from, this was the first Oldfield album that popped into my head when Pedro mentioned that a lot of Oldfield fits (in reality only some of his fits in my estimation but strange as it seems, I'm not here to argue finer details since some of his albums are indeed instrumental concept albums).

Also 'Diana' as well I suppose. Does any Oldfield qualify as purely instrumental. I guess if someone is just singing 'Ommadawn' that still using the voice as an instrument rather than singing a song?

BTW Claire Hammill's Voices. Instrumental or not?Smile
The use of vocalisation and vocable is using the voice as an instrument rather than singing a song so I would consider Claire Hamill's Voices to be an instrumental album and the 'Diana, Luna, Lucina' section of Incantations part one is a rhythmic chant, albeit sung like a synth-pad, so again I would view that as instrumental rather than lyrical. Of course song lyrics do not have to be coherent or make sense to be thought of as songs and many of them form an integral part of the musical content of the tune but I think there is a clear distinction between vocalisation and lyricism that we can recognise even if sometimes vocable seems to be a "place-holder" for a real lyric that failed to materialise (thinking Jon Anderson and Peter Gabriel here where use of vocable is more than just providing a sha-la-la-la type backing vocal - other members of Genesis weren't always impressed by Gabriel's scat vocalisations over instrumental sections on SEbtP).


-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 04:38





Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 04:39










Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 04:49
This whole thread reminds me of the demarcation in classical forms where 'absolute' music that does not purport to represent the external world is contrasted with 'program' music which usually has some sort of textual narrative. No-one 'just hears the notes' in a Mozart, Beethoven or Stravinsky symphony divorced from any subjective aesthetic judgement (that's what a sampler is forWink) I think any instrumental music conjures up imagery and emotional responses just like any other 'song' based music.
Lyrics (and titles) can certainly steer our thinking into areas that perhaps the composer/author intended but as Dean correctly states, calling your instrumental  piece 'Orphaned Fork' does not make it a concept by virtue of your idea for the title. There are clear examples of both types in the work of a single composer like Bartok: Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste, Concerto for Orchestra and the Three Piano Concertos are unequivocally 'absolute' music whereas The Wooden Prince and The Miraculous Mandarin are both clearly 'program' music.
Just an observation: Do we Prog fans feel the need to elevate the music we profess to love above all others by finding a trumping 'concept' card behind everything? Can't it just be great tunes and textures that move us?



-------------


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:19
^ we don't and it can.

Similarly, we also can observe and discuss some aspects and/or trends that we consider interesting or stir our imagination - and this is what this is all about.


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:23
^ I don't share your conviction but don't doubt your sincerity as spokesman for Prog fans for a second. LOL

-------------


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:26


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:28


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:35
I agree with Iain, and I also agree with Athanasios that some of these are stated by the composer/artist but those that are not are open to interpretation due to the imagery they conjure in the listener. The Planet Suite does not invoke imagery of the celestial bodies themselves but of the mythical beings they are named after since that is stated in the track (sub)titles (bringer of Joy, bringer of War etc). 

From my own inept experience of creating instrumental music there is no easy way of telling whether each CD of music was constructed to a theme or whether the titles preceded the musical composition unless I explicitly state the case one way or another. Even when I've composed an album with a lyrical narrative, the music alone without the sung vocal doesn't tell a story as such.

Producing a narrative in instrumental music often relies on placing readily identifiable musical phrases or instrumentation within the melody, as can be heard through-out Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring ... or in the Little April Showers song from Disney's Bambi, where pizzicato notes invokes the sound of dripping water before the vocal starts ... but when you strive to avoid the predictable or shy away from the over-use of cliché-ridden phrasing other clues are often needed, be that a title, a cover picture or by the use of explanatory sleeve notes.


(ps: Svetonio - can you PLEASE easy-up on posting random album covers and tell us why you are selecting these albums - we can all list themed and conceptual instrumental albums)


-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:39


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:39
*sigh*

-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 05:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(ps: Svetonio - can you PLEASE easy-up on posting random album covers and tell us why you are selecting these albums - we can all list themed and conceptual instrumental albums)
First of all, my choice of the covers is not random, and you know it. But I'll tell you briefly what I mean by that is an instrumental concept album; it is album that has a very clear musical direction (following an idea and/or atmosphere).
I hope you're satisfied?


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:03
Every James Last Orchestra album has a clear musical direction that follows a thematic idea but they ain't instrumental concept albums pilgrim. No wait, please don't propose James Last for.....Shocked


-------------


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:04
^^ I, too, would like to see a bit more explanation on those covers - i.e. what is the concept all about?

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I don't share your conviction but don't doubt your sincerity as spokesman for Prog fans for a second. LOL

Maybe if I would rephrase to "we don't (necessarily) and it can", this would reflect reality a bit better Wink.

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I agree with Iain, and I also agree with Athanasios that some of these are stated by the composer/artist but those that are not are open to interpretation due to the imagery they conjure in the listener. The Planet Suite does not invoke imagery of the celestial bodies themselves but of the mythical beings they are named after since that is stated in the track (sub)titles (bringer of Joy, bringer of War etc). 

From my own inept experience of creating instrumental music there is no easy way of telling whether each CD of music was constructed to a theme or whether the titles preceded the musical composition unless I explicitly state the case one way or another. Even when I've composed an album with a lyrical narrative, the music alone without the sung vocal doesn't tell a story as such.

Good points, it is not easy to say with the "open to interpretation" ones but would be interesting to hear  read how some are creating different "pictures" to different people.

On the "stated" ones, Bo Hannson's LOTR came to mind - and despite the fact that the pieces of music don't necessarily flow smoothly from one to the other, there is a variation of moods depending on the theme of each piece (see from relaxed to adventurous etc.), which attempts to portray the themes. Maybe not one of my favourite albums but surely a good example.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:17
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:




^^ I, too, would like to see a bit more explanation on those covers - i.e. what is the concept all about?

Actually, the masterpieces whose jackets I posted here (instead of a list, 'cause I love images) are all very famous instrumental concept albums. Because I have no talent to write a serious analysis (reviews) of what I listen, please go listen to these albums and you will be told by the music


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:19
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

I have no talent for serious analysis of what I listen


Ask me what flavour my tongue is.Confused


-------------


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:24
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

I have no talent for serious analysis of what I listen
Ask me what flavour my tongue is.Confused

If you think you can provoke me with such foolishness, you are sadly mistaken.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:33
No one is asking for a PhD thesis or a dissertation of Proustian proportion. Unless you say why you find these to be good examples of instrumental concept albums they will remain random cover pictures. Your replies here show well enough that you are smarter than this. We ask nicely, we ask curtly and/or we ask bluntly - each time the same excuse and you continue to ignore out pleas. That is rudeness in any language and in any culture.

-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 06:51
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


(...) Unless you say why you find these to be good examples of instrumental concept albums they will remain random cover pictures. (..)

Sorry Dean, but I really do not intend to be here for the hearing of the informations that you already know (e.g. "Albedo 0.39 is about space and space physics"). This is ridiculous.
Information is not knowledge, music is the best - the girl from the bus said.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 07:11
Try Instagram, this is a discussion forum, so let's discuss - If I want to see pretty pictures I'll use Google Image Search, If I want to look at Vangelis album covers I'll got to his artist page. 

We all know what Albedo 0.39 is about - what are your views on how well that is conveyed in the music, if Vangelis had called it "Fluffy Bunny In The Headlights" or "Opus #39" would it have invoked the same feelings in YOU?






-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 07:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...), if Vangelis had called it "Fluffy Bunny In The Headlights" or "Opus #39" would it have invoked the same feelings in YOU?



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 07:58
I honestly don't know why I even try to reason with you. I would dearly love to ignore every post you make here but your breed of spam-trolling is difficult to avoid.

-------------
What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 08:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...) I would dearly love to ignore every post you make here but your breed of spam-trolling is difficult to avoid.

My "breed of spam-trolling"?! No problem Dean, I will ignore your posts from now on. As you do not admin anymore that I have read your posts for notifications, alerts, etc.
Also, you are not a member of any of the Teams that I need to read what you have to say about my suggestions at PA' "Suggest new bands and artists" sub-forum (my favourite one).
Indeed, I really have no reason to read your posts after a series of insults (when you run out of arguments).

e.g. :

Quote Originally posted by Svetonio

Let the reviews speaks for the music.

Quote Originally posted by Dean
Stop being a dick.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95272&PN=2" rel="nofollow - Gravitsapa thread, page 2



Last but not least, I am not interested in your musical philosophy, much less in your erudition. I saw a lot of internet erudits, and you know what - they become boring after a while. So, bye bye Dean!


Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 11:16
If Herbie Hancock is listed on Progarchives, which is the case, would it be appropriate to mention his Maiden Voyage? 

Also - possibly - The Hymn Of The Seventh Galaxy, a space-themed Return To Forever album from the '70s. 

I'm glad the OP started this topic, reminding me of Camel. So I pulled out the Goose and gave it a good listen, and I was well pleased :)


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 11:19
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 Would you say then that the musical concepts that work are those where we already know the backstory, ie those that are based upon well-known existing work, such as Watership Down, Lord Of The Rings or The Snow Goose... or those themed albums that are intended to provide instrumental vignettes to characters such as The Six Wives of Henry VIII or inspired on objects such as the cards in a Tarot deck? [no clues... this is a pop quiz - name that album]
...
 
I don't know how to answer that but I can tell you that I have bits and pieces from everywhere, and one day I write a piece about John Doe, and this bit and piece I had, fits in the middle of it somehow, and becomes a part of it.
 
You play music. You know that happens!
 
I am not sure, or convinced, that we all start with "ideas", similar to a child, just sitting at one keyboard ... and they do this and that, and you look at it. The "sense" that you and I would expect and define for ourselves, when we do something, would be missing ... at least as far as we know, since we do not know what a "child sense" would be other than our own ideas.
 
And there are many artists, that are "very child like" (if you will) in their approach.
 
Sidebar:
Actually "Savage Messiah" and Ken's film on Dante Gabriel Rossetti are my favorite "biographies" of his, and his Isadora Duncan is very nice as well. Mahler's film was very nice, but in some ways ... left me "disconnected" even though I don't know why. Have to see it again.
 
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


...Holst's Planet Suite is most definitely a concept, but Handel's Music For The Royal Fireworks and Tichycoughski's 1812 Overture are commemorative pieces based upon ideas but are not conceptual.
 
Agreed.
 
Tichycoughski's?
 
Hahaha!!!!
 
Oh, btw, I never have names for any poems or things I write, because I have no idea what to use for it. On the poems, I use the first line to identify them!


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 11:47
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...) I would dearly love to ignore every post you make here but your breed of spam-trolling is difficult to avoid.
 
My "breed of spam-trolling"?! No problem Dean, I will ignore your posts from now on. As you do not admin anymore that I have read your posts for notifications, alerts, etc. 
Also, you are not a member of any of the Teams that I need to read what you have to say about my suggestions at PA' "Suggest new bands and artists" sub-forum (my favourite one). 
Indeed, I really have no reason to read your posts after a series of insults (when you run out of arguments). 

e.g. : 

Quote  Originally posted by Svetonio 

Let the reviews speaks for the music.
 
Quote Originally posted by Dean 
Stop being a dick.
 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95272&PN=2" rel="nofollow - Gravitsapa thread, page 2  



Last but not least, I am not interested in your musical philosophy, much less in your erudition. I saw a lot of internet erudits, and you know what - they become boring after a while. So, bye bye Dean!
I had given a curt reply to this but since have changed my mind so have deleted that post in favour of this more considered response:

I've not so much changed my mind as actually looked at the circumstances of my advice to you to "stop being a dick" and the flow of conversation that lead up to it, which I still believe is fully justified. I don't think I could have found a better example of your trollish attitude if I tried.

After some pointed discussion on the nature of unsigned artists with limited web-presence, a member of the Math Rock team voiced an opinion that Gravitsapa could fit in Math Rock, to which you acted as if that was a done-deal- so I posted:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Not so fast - wait for the team to decide, not the opinion of one person. This is a democratic process

to which your snippy retort was "Let the reviews speak for the music" - in light of the previous discussion in that thread I believed then that was a dickish response, and I still do (I'm certainly not going to apologise for saying it - I could have chosen a more erudite wording, but the sentiment remains). Democracy it seems is a vague concept to you, as is the means by which we evaluate and add artists to the Archive. The Suggest New Bands may be your favourite sub-forum, but you are far from our favourite band suggester. You moan that we take so long to evaluate a band yet continue to flood us with more inappropriate suggestions so we can no longer cope with the backlog. Whether you like it or not, we're never going to add every Bandcamp artist you suggest, and given your appalling track record we're never going to add a band based upon your word alone - we listen to every suggestion and evaluate them as teams.

As you so rightly point out, I'm nether an Admin nor on an evaluation team so that's not my responsibility any more - however when you suggested the band it was and it was a role I took very seriously until you turned up.

So after much procrastination and deliberation Gravitsapa was eventually added last month, not in Math Rock as you suggested but to RIO/Avant-Prog. Not a fast response by us by any means and something that perhaps needed to be looked at, (reducing the number of silly suggestions would help), however the Admin team have since promoted Luca to a senior role in the ZART team so things can only improve. 

Since then we have been waiting for these fabled "reviews [to] speak for the music", and to date both their albums have amassed a total of two ratings a piece (and no reviews) - these blistering 5-star review-less ratings have come from yourself and Sasha Jabovsky, guitarist and vocalist of Gravitsapa. There is of course no rule against that, an artist is free to review and rate their own work here and I would be disappointed if the person who suggested the band didn't review at least one of their albums, such is the nature of democracy, but the lack of "fan" reviews does not look good (it looks abysmal to the point of being uncomfortably embarrassing). That is not a situation that makes us happy at all and goes to emphasise the points we have been making regarding unsigned artists and artists with little or no web-presence outside the rarefied atmosphere of Bandcamp. Not every Bandcamp artist is suitable for this site. It's a hard and uncomfortable reality, but a reality none-the-less - we are not here to promote artists, we are here for the fans to write reviews.

So, ignore me all you like, that's nothing new, you've ignored me when I've been polite and you've ignored me on the one occasion I've broken the pretence of polite behaviour and spoken my mind. I will try to ignore you in Band Suggestions and in the Bandcamp Recommendations thread that you've successfully managed to turn into a mockery all by yourself - what was once a decent thread is now one where no one cares what you post. In recent times I've spoke out against your flood of pointless YouTube videos, and now I chose to voice my opinion on your flood of pointless album cover images - whenever I see a succession of posts by you in a thread my heart sinks, for the love of Prog please do not turn every thread into a repeat of the Bandcamp Recommendations thread. Restrain yourself, add an opinion of your own that you didn't read from Wikipedia or Bandcamp description, tell us what YOU think. You're smart and you have a brain, why not use it? Being erudite is not a negative trait, however, having knowledge and not sharing it is.

peace out.

ciao.


-------------
What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 12:37
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I don't know how to answer that but I can tell you that I have bits and pieces from everywhere, and one day I write a piece about John Doe, and this bit and piece I had, fits in the middle of it somehow, and becomes a part of it.
 
You play music. You know that happens!
 
I am not sure, or convinced, that we all start with "ideas", similar to a child, just sitting at one keyboard ... and they do this and that, and you look at it. The "sense" that you and I would expect and define for ourselves, when we do something, would be missing ... at least as far as we know, since we do not know what a "child sense" would be other than our own ideas.
 
And there are many artists, that are "very child like" (if you will) in their approach.

Naivety perhaps, but not child like. As a "composer" (I use that term very loosely)  I may have a melody or hook to play around with but generally start with an idea of where I want to go with it - a game-plan or a story board perhaps. It's like with writing - I have written two novels, both of them episodic in that I wrote them live online, publishing each chapter as I wrote them. Personally I could not have done that without a conceptual story-board and extensive plot and character notes to guide me through the process. The world is full of badly conceived and executed novels without me joining in. I'm sure other authors can do without all that, but when you're working without an editor and/or a proof-reader to keep a sanity check on what you are producing mostly that results in a glorified mess. I guess you like that unstructured approach, but for me it rarely results in a satisfactory novel - I dislike cut-ups and 'stream of unconsciousness' ramblings - it's too hit or miss and often is simply "miss". Gonzo is an amusing character in The Muppets, it's not a writing style that I adhere to or particularly admire. 

Similarly, music has structure for a reason. Too many "bedroom" composers just noodle around on the keyboard and it shows - music that rambles and goes no-where, melodies that fail to develop or resolve and often only end when the tape runs out (so to speak) - that is not even improvisation, it's just noodling. Noodling is for finger and brain exercise and personal amusement, it's something I do when I've a free moment to just play and enjoy myself, it's not for public consumption. The world could be improved if some artists kept their meandering noodling to themselves - we don't need to hear every note they play in their lifetime.

When I produced my " http://www.mediafire.com/download/tal7wsbus61ro8y/Pilgrim.rar" rel="nofollow - Pilgrim " album I developed the initial idea into a concept and spent hours in research long before I wrote a single note. This involved not only re-reading Pilgrim's Progress, but also in researching the history behind it and trying to understand the concepts Bunyan was putting across in the book and my impression of it - so rather than re-tell the story, I took a different tack and tried to convey Mr Valiant-for-Truth's journey to the Celestial Country in music - each part of the journey was carefully considered, I knew the mood and feeling I wanted in each piece even if the tune or melody eluded me until I pressed the first note of the first bar. How successful that was as a finished album is immaterial - it started with the concept and pulled themes from all directions but all with a clear plan of where it was going and how it would end. [As I have said before, it's not one of my favourite albums - it simply strayed too far from the kind of music I set out to create 50 albums earlier - it's pseudo-classical and that's not the music I wanted to make when I started - I don't dislike the music or the finished product, I simply became disillusioned by the style of music my writing developed into - that was the "naked lunch" moment for me if you like]

Of course I cannot say that is how all artists compose because clearly every artist is different and we all have our own preferred way of working, but I would be surprised if the majority just winged-it and made it up as they went along.

So, I've partly explained the backstory to my 50th album and  I have stated was a instrumental concept album by design - it is now impossible for you to listen to it (the name above is a link to a free download if you're interested) without knowing that. You can of course ignore the concept and just listen to the notes, it doesn't change anything.

Wink


-------------
What?


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 13:39
Djam Karet's A Night For Baku

The band's Wiki entry has a line that handily explains the title:

"The title derives from Japanese folklore: the Baku are mythical inhabitants of the dream world, valiant warriors who devour nightmares as the spoils of battle."

-------------
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 20 2014 at 14:21
Love that album.

My favorite concept instrumental album, Marscape!

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=15293" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=15293


-------------
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 01:00
If Pink Floyd will release a new album as an instrumental & "back to basis" album as it was announced as well, it gonna be produced as an instrumental concept album, methinks.


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 01:39
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:





that opens up another can of worms as there is a spoken section (the title track). Also what is the concept? ( I genuinely don't know although I suppose it could just be 'Planet Earth' perhaps?)


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 01:40
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Incantations is probably my favourite whether it be an 'idea' or a 'concept' or whatever. It works for me and feels very complete. I like the fact that he had this 'idea' and developed it as far as it could go. Many would say it was stretched out but hey ho.
For me The Song of Hiawatha and Ode to Cynthia would tend to disqualify Incantations as being an instrumental album and Hiawatha is a little "off topic" for the album's goddess concept. However, I do understand where you are coming from, this was the first Oldfield album that popped into my head when Pedro mentioned that a lot of Oldfield fits (in reality only some of his fits in my estimation but strange as it seems, I'm not here to argue finer details since some of his albums are indeed instrumental concept albums).

Also 'Diana' as well I suppose. Does any Oldfield qualify as purely instrumental. I guess if someone is just singing 'Ommadawn' that still using the voice as an instrument rather than singing a song?

BTW Claire Hammill's Voices. Instrumental or not?Smile
The use of vocalisation and vocable is using the voice as an instrument rather than singing a song so I would consider Claire Hamill's Voices to be an instrumental album and the 'Diana, Luna, Lucina' section of Incantations part one is a rhythmic chant, albeit sung like a synth-pad, so again I would view that as instrumental rather than lyrical. Of course song lyrics do not have to be coherent or make sense to be thought of as songs and many of them form an integral part of the musical content of the tune but I think there is a clear distinction between vocalisation and lyricism that we can recognise even if sometimes vocable seems to be a "place-holder" for a real lyric that failed to materialise (thinking Jon Anderson and Peter Gabriel here where use of vocable is more than just providing a sha-la-la-la type backing vocal - other members of Genesis weren't always impressed by Gabriel's scat vocalisations over instrumental sections on SEbtP).

Thumbs Up


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 10:26
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:





that opens up another can of worms as there is a spoken section (the title track). Also what is the concept? ( I genuinely don't know although I suppose it could just be 'Planet Earth' perhaps?)

Quote Albedo 0.39 is an album by the artist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vangelis" rel="nofollow - Vangelis , released in 1976. It is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_album" rel="nofollow - concept album around space and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysics" rel="nofollow - space physics . Albedo 0.39 was the second album produced by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vangelis" rel="nofollow - Vangelis in Nemo Studios, London, which was his creative base until the late 1980s. It contrasts with his previous album, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_and_Hell_%281975_album%29" rel="nofollow - Heaven and Hell , which was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_classical_music" rel="nofollow - classically inspired and choral, while Albedo 0.39 has blues and jazz overtones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo_0.39" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo_0.39


Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: July 21 2014 at 20:16
Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record (1977)


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 01:13
Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:

Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record (1977)

ignoring the Breathalyser Wink

(which is a good idea)


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 01:59


Quote

François Couturier
http://www.ecmrecords.com/Catalogue/ECM/1900/1979.php?lvredir=712&catid=0&doctype=Catalogue&order=releasedate&we_search=%2B1979+%2BNostalghia&rubchooser=301&mainrubchooser=3" rel="nofollow - Nostalghia – Song for Tarkovsky

François Couturier piano
Anja Lechner violoncello
Jean Marc Larché soprano saxophone
Jean Louis Matinier accordion
Recorded December 2005, Auditorium Radio Svizzera, Lugano
Engineer: Markus Heiland
Produced by Manfred Eicher

“What kind of world is this if a madman tells you you must be ashamed of yourselves? Music now!”

So espouses Erland Josephson as Domenico in Andrei Tarkovsky’s 1983 masterpieceNostalghia, of which this album by pianist François Couturier takes the name. Domenico is, in many ways, himself a musical figure. As the very madman he admonishes, one who shackled his family in their own home for seven years as protection against an imperfect world, he is constantly refolding his own psyche in a leitmotif of fixation, building reality from blocks of fanciful impulses, each more poetic than the last. Yet as Tarkovsky himself once averred, art exists only because the world is imperfect. Music thrives on insanity.

That said, the even keel of Nostalghia presents the listener with such an expressive compass that even the most elemental sound becomes a northward tug. Anyone who has followed Couturier’s ECM travels will know that he is a musician of many directions. From the taut classical forays of  http://ecmreviews.com/2013/03/23/poros/" rel="nofollow - Poros  to the border-crossing trio recordings with Anouar Brahem (see  http://ecmreviews.com/2013/07/18/le-pas-du-chat-noir/" rel="nofollow - Le pas du chat noir  and  http://ecmreviews.com/2013/09/02/le-voyage-de-sahar/" rel="nofollow - Le voyage de sahar ), he is anything but predictable. Counting cellist Anja Lechner, accordionist Jean Louis Matinier, and saxophonist Jean Marc Larché among the present company, he darkens Tarkovsky’s blueprints with the press of every key until they are ashen with wayfaring.

The album’s outer circle is inscribed by way of “Erbarme Dich” from Bach’s St Matthew Passion, which seeds the opening and closing tracks by way of profound lament. In the absence of words, “Le Sacrifice” (Bach’s aria appears in the Tarkovsky film of the same name) holds on to the text of the moment. In the absence of the cross, one feels the intersection of piano and accordion as a sacrifice in and of itself. The feeling of decay is palpable—surely, if imperceptibly, approaching disappearance—as was Tarkovsky’s play of color and shadow. The concluding “L’éternel retour” unravels by way of piano alone. Like a lost entry from Vassilis Tsabropoulos’s  http://ecmreviews.com/2014/06/26/the-promise/" rel="nofollow - The Promise ), its hand closes the lid of a box that houses creative spirit. That the song bears dedication to Erland Josephson indicates Couturier’s attention to detail in paying tribute not only to the artist of interest, but also his brilliant actors and collaborators.

“Crépusculaire,” for instance, honors Sven Nykvist, Ingmar Bergman’s right-hand cinematographer (who also filmed The Sacrifice) and moves accordingly by the touch of Lechner’s picturesque bowing. Her feel for notecraft and harmony is matched only by her attention to atmosphere. Couturier blends pigments with charcoal-stained fingers, each a pontiff reduced to a smudge across gray sky as the accordion finds its peace in the waters below. The combination aches with dew, trembling on grass stems when the three instruments at last share the same breath in focus.

“Nostalghia” is for screenwriter Tonino Guerra, with whom Tarkovsky co-wrote the screenplay for that very film. It opens us to the affectations of the full quartet and takes its inspiration from Schnittke’s Sonata No. 1 for violoncello and piano. This gentle music is a wish turned into stone and laid in stagnant water. The most obvious dedication, “Andreï,” also incorporates the Schnittke. A steady pulse in the left hand frees the right to orbit the keyboard, while the accordion fits like wind to wing over barren plains of consciousness.

“Stalker” gives proper attention to Eduard Artemyev, who wrote the soundtracks for that film and Solaris, and meshes bucolic and hypermodern impulses in kind. Its impactful pianism gives up many relics, each more sacred than the last. Anatoly Solonitsyn, lead actor of Andrei Rublev, is the final dedicatee. With its allusions to the “Amen” from Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater, “Toliu” multiplies shades of night.

Although Couturier consciously avoided the evocation of specific Tarkovsky scenery (this is more than a concept album), the feeling of pathos is so visual that one might as well be watching a film by the great director. The pianism shines like the water so prevalent in Tarkovsky’s cinema, if not swimming among many artifacts strewn below the surface. And in any sense, Couturier is very much the director of all that one hears throughout the program, as borne out most directly in the freely improvised “Solaris I” and “Solaris II.” In these the soprano saxophone turns the sun into a pilot light, and the world its oven, even as the rest of the ensemble hangs icicles from the eaves. Still, the overall effect is more literary than filmic, picking up words and turning them into actions that grow with listening.

“Ivan” references Ivan’s Childhood, Tarkovsky’s first feature. Its declamatory beginning spawns an almost theatrical feeling in distorted fairytale gestures before the quartet rejoins to finish off strong. In the wake of such confluence, Couturier’s solo “Miroir” wipes the slate clean, leaving superbly engineered ambience as the only evidence of an inner world to be discovered. Each step taken on this Escherian staircase walks a path of light.

Perfection may be an impossible ideal, but this album almost touches it. It’s a sheet of paper curling into its own insecurity for want of inscription. Don’t let it slip through your fingers, no matter what kind of quill you wield.


http://ecmreviews.com/" rel="nofollow - http://ecmreviews.com/


Posted By: aliano
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 02:50
I think Days Between Stations debut is a concept Album based on a novel by Steve Erickson.


Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 05:17
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

If Pink Floyd will release a new album as an instrumental & "back to basis" album as it was announced as well, it gonna be produced as an instrumental concept album, methinks.

I wish, but ...

... Polly Samson (spelling?) and Durga-something got involved, which means there shall be lyrics and they shall be duly sung, so it won't be a purebred instrumental album. 

Also I read the style going to be "ambient"; I don't know if ambient music can be shaped into a concept album? Perhaps .. but not in the proggy sense. 


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 22 2014 at 06:57
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

If Pink Floyd will release a new album as an instrumental & "back to basis" album as it was announced as well, it gonna be produced as an instrumental concept album, methinks. 

I wish, but ...

... Polly Samson (spelling?) and Durga-something got involved, which means there shall be lyrics and they shall be duly sung, so it won't be a purebred instrumental album. 

Also I read the style going to be "ambient"; I don't know if ambient music can be shaped into a concept album? Perhaps .. but not in the proggy sense. 
Maybe they will make an album with a so short singing part that the album could be called *instrumental* - in my opinion of course; e.g. imo Albedo 0.39 is an instrumental album although there are some nicely recorded spoken words in the title track and of course these, say, very short and charming "preludes" created by spoken words that you can hear between the tracks.
Regarding that "ambient" thing, I think that in PF case it could be anything. Personally, I would like to hear new PF in a psychedelic / post-rock  style.


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 24 2015 at 09:36
Though not a household name around here, Spanish RIO/Avant outfit October Equus have released a truly outstanding instrumental concept album about Lord Franklin's doomed expedition in search of the North-West Passage, by the apt title of Permafrost: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42045" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42045 . You can also find a review of it on my blog.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 10 2015 at 07:14
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Though not a household name around here, Spanish RIO/Avant outfit October Equus have released a truly outstanding instrumental concept album about Lord Franklin's doomed expedition in search of the North-West Passage, by the apt title of Permafrost: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42045" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42045 . You can also find a review of it on my blog.
 
Thumbs Up Great suggestion - also a good example of how evocative artwork and track titles can work to make the "concept" more effective.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 10 2015 at 07:25
Voivode Dracula by Karda Estra:
 
https://kardaestra.bandcamp.com/album/voivode-dracula-2" rel="nofollow - https://kardaestra.bandcamp.com/album/voivode-dracula-2
 
Really conjures up that dreamy, disturbing eroticism.  Has wordless singing, which - like Dean said - I don't think takes away from it being "instrumental".


Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: May 10 2015 at 08:09
^ Karda Estra, one of these bands I always liked to investigate further but never found time...


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: May 10 2015 at 08:54
^ I know what you mean, there's just too much stuff out there.  I think KE is worth a bit of time to investigate though (and you can hear all their albums free on Bandcamp).


Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: June 03 2015 at 23:06

Absolute Elsewhere – “In Search of Ancient Gods” (based on the occasionally discredited writings of Erich von Daniken)

David Bedford – “The Odyssey”

Bo Hansson – “The Lord of the Rings”

Anthony Phillips – “1984”

Jan Hammer – “The First Seven Days”

Steve Hackett – “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”

Dave Greenslade – “The Pentateuch of the Cosmogony”

Gordon Giltrap – “Visionary” (based on William Blake’s works)

Tom Newman – “Bayou Moon”

Tom Newman – “Aspects”



-------------
Caption: We tend to take ourselves a little too seriously.

Silly human race! Yes is for everybody!



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk