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AOR VS Disco

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Topic: AOR VS Disco
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: AOR VS Disco
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 18:47
Both styles are dancefloor friendly , both have each decade of suxess, also both have honur of propelling bass guitar to the forefront more then any other genre (imo as a bassplayer mysrlf) both styles have realy artistical merrits.




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Replies:
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 18:54
Definitely disco

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Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 20:37
No vote, both are not my cup of tea.

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This night wounds time.


Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 20:39
But at least it is possible to make a catchy disco song. With AOR it's much harder, most of it looks just as boring as a brick wall in front of your window.

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This night wounds time.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 20:39
Don't really care for either.

I suppose Disco.

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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 27 2014 at 20:41
Easily AOR for me.

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Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 00:58
AOR, I guess. 

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Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 01:04
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

Definitely disco
Yep

Disco is a stale and lifeless genre which is why I love it so much (same goes for industrial)


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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 07:10
Disco
 


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 07:17
In two words: Donna Summer.



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What?


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 07:30
D.I.S.C.O

D.I.S.C.O

It can be fun and has a reason to exist rather than AOR which doesn't. Wink




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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 08:02
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

D.I.S.C.OD.I.S.C.OIt can be fun and has a reason to exist rather than AOR which doesn't. Wink



She is D desirable, She is I irresistable, She is S super sexy, She is C such a cutie, She is Oh Oh Ohhh...


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 08:29
Originally posted by Kirillov Kirillov wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

D.I.S.C.OD.I.S.C.OIt can be fun and has a reason to exist rather than AOR which doesn't. Wink



She is D desirable, She is I irresistable, She is S super sexy, She is C such a cutie, She is Oh Oh Ohhh...


Exactly! And where would you get that in AOR? Hmm?

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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 10:36
What a choice, hanging or drowning? Whichever one doesn't give you rope burns I suppose.......

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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 12:10
Didn't they start inventing machines in order to play disco music or is that one of those urban myths? 


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 15:25
Disco. There were quite some enjoyable disco hits in the 1970's/1980's.

AOR that I like: I can only think of Toto.


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 28 2014 at 16:32
Chicago - Street Player !!


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 05:45
Why the hell  isn't life's too short for this crap an a option in this poll?

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 05:46
Becouse i dont rate crap

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 05:58
AOR = Adult Oriented Rock.

It's originally a genre which gave to the world so much of the great albums as Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, Jefferson Starship's Red Octopus, Billly Joel's 52nd Street, Joni Mitchell's Hejira, Supertramp's Breakfast in America, Pete Townshend's All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, Joe Cocker's Unchain My Heart and so on.












Naturally, I voted AOR.






Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 08:10
I love AOR. Disco isn't bad, but I don't like dancing.

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 08:13
I like to hear at fm some old disco hits, as this one for example.








Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 11:47
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Becouse i dont rate crap

heheheheheh


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 15:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

AOR = Adult Oriented Rock.

It's originally a genre which gave to the world so much of the great albums as Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, Jefferson Starship's Red Octopus, Billly Joel's 52nd Street, Joni Mitchell's Hejira, Supertramp's Breakfast in America, Pete Townshend's All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, Joe Cocker's Unchain My Heart and so on.

Naturally, I voted AOR.



Oh, I wouldn't have classified Fleetwood Mac, Billy Joel and Supertramp as AOR.
If they count as AOR (and they probably do), then the balance tips to AOR again for me.
It's a question of definition, I suppose.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 16:09
As someone already mentioned AOR is album (or adult oriented rock) and nothing like disco.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock
"Album-oriented rock (abbreviated AOR) is an American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting" rel="nofollow - FM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_format" rel="nofollow - radio format focusing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album" rel="nofollow - album tracks by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock artists. AOR evolved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock_%28radio_format%29" rel="nofollow - progressive rock radio in the mid-1970s, using research and formal programming to create an album rock format with greater commercial appeal."
 
AOR  anyday over disco.


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 16:21
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

AOR = Adult Oriented Rock.

It's originally a genre which gave to the world so much of the great albums as Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, Jefferson Starship's Red Octopus, Billly Joel's 52nd Street, Joni Mitchell's Hejira, Supertramp's Breakfast in America, Pete Townshend's All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, Joe Cocker's Unchain My Heart and so on.

Naturally, I voted AOR.



Oh, I wouldn't have classified Fleetwood Mac, Billy Joel and Supertramp as AOR.
If they count as AOR (and they probably do), then the balance tips to AOR again for me.
It's a question of definition, I suppose.
As always Svetonio's understanding of genres leaves a hell of a lot to be desired and is woefully stretching the format to fit his personal preferences.

AOR is typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto. You can add bands like Styx and April Wine to that list and at a push Jefferson Starship, but certainly NOT Fleetwood Mac, Joni Mitchell (really? ffs), Supertramp or Joe Cocker.

It's a question of making-it-up-as-you-go-along, I suppose.


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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 16:28
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

As someone already mentioned AOR is album (or adult oriented rock) and nothing like disco.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock
"Album-oriented rock (abbreviated AOR) is an American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting" rel="nofollow - - radio format focusing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album" rel="nofollow - - rock artists. AOR evolved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock_%28radio_format%29" rel="nofollow -

Or...

Originally posted by RYM RYM wrote:

AOR (Adult Oriented Rock) is a sub-genre of  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/" rel="nofollow - Rock  that emerged in the late '70s and early '80s as an amalgamation of  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/" rel="nofollow - Rock http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Hard+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Hard Rock  and  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Progressive+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Progressive Rock . It is characterized by a rich, layered sound, slick production and a heavy reliance on pop/rock hooks, which led to its huge popularity in the late '70s and early '80s. 
AOR songs are almost always synthesizer driven and catchy and very often include harmonized vocals. The catchy choruses combined with relatively short song lengths make AOR a very radio friendly genre. The songs are more melodic than straight-ahead, regular  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Hard+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Hard Rock , but still not nearly as light as  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Pop+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Pop Rock
....
Note! The genre AOR is not to be confused with the radio format AOR (Album Oriented Rock), which is a term used to refer to radio stations that played "deep cuts", i.e. album tracks not released as singles.


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What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 17:28
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

AOR = Adult Oriented Rock.

It's originally a genre which gave to the world so much of the great albums as Fleetwood Mac's Rumors, Jefferson Starship's Red Octopus, Billly Joel's 52nd Street, Joni Mitchell's Hejira, Supertramp's Breakfast in America, Pete Townshend's All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, Joe Cocker's Unchain My Heart and so on.

Naturally, I voted AOR.



Oh, I wouldn't have classified Fleetwood Mac, Billy Joel and Supertramp as AOR.
If they count as AOR (and they probably do), then the balance tips to AOR again for me.
It's a question of definition, I suppose.
As always Svetonio's understanding of genres leaves a hell of a lot to be desired and is woefully stretching the format to fit his personal preferences.

AOR is typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto. You can add bands like Styx and April Wine to that list and at a push Jefferson Starship, but certainly NOT Fleetwood Mac, Joni Mitchell (really? ffs), Supertramp or Joe Cocker.

It's a question of making-it-up-as-you-go-along, I suppose.

lol
I wrote about the albums who are Adult Oriented Rock, not about the artists. Rumors is a PERFECT example of AOR.
Asia was flash-rock, same like Argent - if I remember well what I have been reading in a rock press back then.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 17:40
From March 2011, in another thread far far away:

Originally posted by crimhead crimhead wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'd rather dip my ears in custard and treacle than listen to AOR.

I'd rather shovel out a cesspit with my bare hands.
 
I'd rather become deaf rather than listen to AORLOL

I agree. AOR had it's place at one time. Thankfully there is not a Classic Rock presents DISCO magazine.LOL 




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What?


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 17:42
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 

lol
I wrote about the albums who are Adult Oriented Rock, not about the artists.
I know. I can read.

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Rumors is a PERFECT example of AOR.
No it isn't.

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
Asia was "flash-rock", same like Argent - if I remmember well.
You don't.
 



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What?


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 18:44
I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 18:48
I don't hate on Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto. The only Toto I have in my collection is the Dune soundtrack, for the rest of these, nothing.  I took and interest in Joni when Pat and Jaco dropped in...


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 22:45
An AOR song by The Who



Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 29 2014 at 23:25
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.




Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 00:02
A three PERFECT examples of AOR.









Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 02:12
Nope. That's MOR not AOR.

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What?


Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 02:21
I love City to City

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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 02:41


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Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 02:47
I don't listen to either genre very often, but disco was pretty instrumental in the development of modern electronic music which I quite like by way of Giorgio Moroder's production work in the 1970s disco scene so it gets my vote.




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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 03:00


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 03:27
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


The term was used, but not in association with Argent.

Originally posted by Dean, July 2009 Dean, July 2009 wrote:

A number of other terms (inc some that have long been forgotten) were used around that time in the Music Press (Melody Maker, NME & Sounds), such as Techno-Flash and Pomp Rock to describe bands like Yes and ELP.


It was usually used as a derisory term:
Originally posted by </span><span style=font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2; : rgb248, 248, 252;>Chris Welch, Melody Maker, 16November 1974 Chris Welch, Melody Maker, 16November 1974 wrote:


     THERE'S DEVIL'S work afoot in the world of rock (and indeed roll). Wot wiv the price of petrol and motorway chips it's a wonder there are any progressive rock bands left on the road who can't live off their record royalties. On top of that musicians have to put up with jibes (and in many cases, gibes) of the "techno-flash" variety from supporters of the popular antimusic front.

SO - yes the term existed but only by a few journalists the music press - it never entered the popular vernacular nor was it ever accepted by the fans of those bands,


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What?


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 04:07
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


The term was used, but not in association with Argent.

(...)
In The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (1977, Salamander Books Limited, Salamander House, 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WCIN 3AF, United Kingdom)  Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden wrote about Argent: 
(...) "The band with the album Ring of Hands (1971) was establish their own identity on recordings. This second album has sparked much interest and sales on both sides of the Atlantic, and introduced Argent in flash rock hierarchy, which was made up by favourite bands as ELP, Yes and Geneisis. (...)"

Sorry, but I do, in spite of all the shortcomings of that first encyclopedia of rock (e.g.lack of Hatfield & The Norh entry, they called Uriah Heep "imitation of Led Zep", etc.), I still believe to this book a lot more than to your stories.


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 04:21


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 04:38
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


The term was used, but not in association with Argent.

(...)
In The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (1977, Salamander Books Limited, Salamander House, 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WCIN 3AF, United Kingdom)  Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden wrote about Argent: 
(...) "The band with the album Ring of Hands (1971) was establish their own identity on recordings. This second album has sparked much interest and sales on both sides of the Atlantic, and introduced Argent in flash rock hierarchy, which was made up by favourite bands as ELP, Yes and Geneisis. (...)"

Sorry, but I do, in spite of all the shortcomings of that first encyclopedia of rock (e.g.lack of Hatfield & The Norh entry, they called Uriah Heep "imitation of Led Zep", etc.), I still believe to this book a lot more than to your stories.
You can believe all you like. The NME Encyclopaedia of Rock is not a definitive reference book, it is the "version" as told by Logan and Woffinden writing at a time when British Rock Journalism was vehemently anti-Prog. With Logan as editor of the NME pushing the publication away from established bands towards Pub Rock and then eventually Punk Rock (in 76/77) he was not using the term in a positive way, (the use of the word 'hierarchy' is a big clue there) - also note that he used it uncapitalised as a descriptive term, not as the Name Of A Genre.

I'll repeat this again:  "term existed but only by a few journalists [in] the music press - it never entered the popular vernacular nor was it ever accepted by the fans of those bands"


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What?


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 05:03
AOR easily.

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 12:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


The term was used, but not in association with Argent.

(...)
In The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (1977, Salamander Books Limited, Salamander House, 27 Old Gloucester Street, London WCIN 3AF, United Kingdom)  Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden wrote about Argent: 
(...) "The band with the album Ring of Hands (1971) was establish their own identity on recordings. This second album has sparked much interest and sales on both sides of the Atlantic, and introduced Argent in flash rock hierarchy, which was made up by favourite bands as ELP, Yes and Geneisis. (...)"

Sorry, but I do, in spite of all the shortcomings of that first encyclopedia of rock (e.g.lack of Hatfield & The Norh entry, they called Uriah Heep "imitation of Led Zep", etc.), I still believe to this book a lot more than to your stories.
You can believe all you like. The NME Encyclopaedia of Rock is not a definitive reference book, it is the "version" as told by Logan and Woffinden writing at a time when British Rock Journalism was vehemently anti-Prog. With Logan as editor of the NME pushing the publication away from established bands towards Pub Rock and then eventually Punk Rock (in 76/77) he was not using the term in a positive way, (the use of the word 'hierarchy' is a big clue there) - also note that he used it uncapitalised as a descriptive term, not as the Name Of A Genre.

I'll repeat this again:  "term existed but only by a few journalists [in] the music press - it never entered the popular vernacular nor was it ever accepted by the fans of those bands"

A nice Flash Rock song for you. 
I'm not kidding at all, 'cause Rod Argent plays the synths.





Mr Pete Townshend is the genious. He actually visited all the sub-genres, even that obscure 70s Flash Rock, and always make it better than others.





Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 13:14
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


That still means Asia certainly isn't flash rock. They were AOR from the get-go. That, and the press also called them dinosaurs — in 1982!!   

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Posted By: bloodnarfer
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 14:17
ok all this thread has done is made me really confused about what AOR actually is. oh well.

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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 14:25
AOR = Any Old Rubbish 

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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 16:56
Originally posted by bloodnarfer bloodnarfer wrote:

ok all this thread has done is made me really confused about what AOR actually is. oh well.
 
 
Originally posted by dr wu23

As someone already mentioned AOR is album (or adult oriented rock) and nothing like disco.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock
"Album-oriented rock (abbreviated AOR) is an American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting" rel="nofollow - FM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_format" rel="nofollow - radio format focusing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album" rel="nofollow - album tracks by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock artists. AOR evolved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock_%28radio_format%29" rel="nofollow - progressive rock radio in the mid-1970s, using research and formal programming to create an album rock format with greater commercial appeal."

Or...

Originally posted by RYM

AOR (Adult Oriented Rock) is a sub-genre of  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/" rel="nofollow - Rock  that emerged in the late '70s and early '80s as an amalgamation of  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/" rel="nofollow - Rock http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Hard+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Hard Rock  and  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Progressive+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Progressive Rock . It is characterized by a rich, layered sound, slick production and a heavy reliance on pop/rock hooks, which led to its huge popularity in the late '70s and early '80s. 

AOR songs are almost always synthesizer driven and catchy and very often include harmonized vocals. The catchy choruses combined with relatively short song lengths make AOR a very radio friendly genre. The songs are more melodic than straight-ahead, regular  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Hard+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Hard Rock , but still not nearly as light as  http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Pop+Rock/" rel="nofollow - Pop Rock
....
Note! The genre AOR is not to be confused with the radio format AOR (Album Oriented Rock), which is a term used to refer to radio stations that played "deep cuts", i.e. album tracks not released as singles.


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: June 30 2014 at 17:37
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Mr Pete Townshend is the genious. He actually visited all the sub-genres, even that obscure 70s Flash Rock, and always make it better than others.



Forcing your square hero into round, triangular, rectangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, etc holes. Smile


According to your quote, the NME Encyclopaedia of Wok defines Flash Rock as a "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock" - not a flattering description is it? In fact it is, as I said before, a derisory term. It is intend to insult and belittle, it is derogatory, disparaging, demeaning, degrading, disdainful, sarcastic, insulting, condescending, contumelious, contemptuous, insolent, discourteous, disrespectful and unkind. No one ever used it to describe a type of music they actually liked. It's like Pomp Rock, Cock Rock and Pork Burger - only ever used as an insult.

Rather than repeat myself for the third time, I'll rephrase it: only journalists who hated that kind of music ever called it Techno Flash, Techno Rock or Flash Rock and they used it as an insult - it was never in common use, it was never used by the bands or the fans of those bands.



Imagine going up to Pete Townshend as saying "Well Mr Townshed, that was a technically stunning but inflated and pretentious piece of music you played there." Guess how may teeth you would have left after that little exchange. LOL


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 00:31



^
Quadrophenia the album is also in the manner of Flash Rock, as well as Tommy soundtrack.
Although Nick Logan and Bob Voffinden in their capital work without whom we lost a lot of real informations about that golden age, do not labeled Quadrophenia as Flash Rock, they actually says:

"Quadrophenia the album marks the return of the inarticulate, disorganized period of mods, where each of the four members of the band is one of the four sides of the character of a typical representative of mods. This album experienced a certain success - it comes with a first class single 5:15 - but in many ways the album was too ambitious, as far as the text and music, a cumbersome orchestration did not match the group. However, despite all the shortcomings, the album was worth and important experiment."



As a progressive rock fan and a casual The Who fan, I love all that synths at Quadrophenia (after all, I'm lover of Todd Rundgren's A Treatise of Cosmic Fire - what can be more flashy than that?!:-) However, I meet at 1986 in one of London pubs a group of English hardcore The Who fans who told me roughly this: "although we love Quad, for a bit it shows The Who as the mods imposters, cause Quad is not a mods music at all; that album should be just one LP without those long instrumental songs, without synths, only Nicky Hopkins at piano as it was originally conceived, but Pete changed everything".

In 1977, I was read an interview with Mr Townshend that have been given for the most important ex-Yugoslavian rock magazine Jukebox, where he said in one of his answers that "although I get a lot of letters by the kids about Quad, we rarely play it at gigs. It's too hard for playing live and it's pretty intangible for a live perfomance."

In the same magazine ( which jounalists were traveling to London very often), I saw many times the term *flash rock*.
Nobody now can prove with a fact how many fans exactly were accepted the term at that time.
Personally, I still love the term because it is very descriptive regarding a lot of the albums, including that Asia's debut.




Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 00:54


Originally posted by bloodnarfer bloodnarfer wrote:

ok all this thread has done is made me really confused about what AOR actually is. oh well.


This amazing, one of the first Adult Oriented Rock songs ever (released 1975), with Nicky Hopkins at piano and great Mr Townshend's (AOR) lyrics, will enlightened you!



Where do you walk on sunny times
When the rivers gleam and the buildings shine
How do you feel goin' up hallowed halls
And the summer clothes brighten gloomy halls

And they're all in love
And they're all in love

Where do you fit in zzzzip magazine
Where the past is the hero and the present a queen
Just tell me right now where do you fit in
With mud in your eye and a passion for gin

And they're all in love
And they're all in love

Hey, goodbye all you punks
Stay young and stay high
Hand me my checkbook
And I'll crawl out to die


But like a woman in childbirth
Grown ugly in a flash
I'm seen magic and fame
Now I'm recycling trash

And they're all in love
And they're all in love
(repeated)


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 01:58
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Personally, I still love the term because it is very descriptive regarding a lot of the albums, including that Asia's debut.
I'm not sure which is the more appropriate, *facepalm* or *headdesk*


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 02:13
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I don't recall any sort of "flash-rock" label applied to Asia. They're AOR through and through, or MOR.

'Flash Rock' as the term now means almost nothing, but in The illustrated New Musical Express Encyclopedia of Rock (Salamander Books Limited, 1977), the authors Nick Logan and Bob Woffinden mentioned flash rock even in the Yes chapter, and they wrote that Rick Wakeman "push the band more deep into something what become knowing as flash rock or techno rock territory." Also, in the same chapter, while describing the genre, the authors have called ELP "leading representatives of flash rock" as "technically stunning but inflated and pretentious school of rock". I have Croatian version of the book, but the terms are cited in English.


That still means Asia certainly isn't flash rock. They were AOR from the get-go. That, and the press also called them dinosaurs — in 1982!!   

Press called them a "supergroup" too - that's just perfect for Flash Rock!


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 02:18
*headdesk* it is then



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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 02:37
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Both styles are dancefloor friendly , both have each decade of suxess, also both have honur of propelling bass guitar to the forefront more then any other genre (imo as a bassplayer mysrlf) both styles have realy artistical merrits.



Originally, Adult Oriented Rock wasn't dancefloor friendly. 
Actually, it was more for listen to while your drive your car, or when you sit at the bar and drink your favorite spirit during lazy afternoons. Of course, as an adult.


Another PERFECT example of AOR:






Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 03:10
While now we treat the initialism of AOR as being synonymous to "Adult Oriented Rock" "Album Orient Rock" and "Album Oriented Radio" they were originally three completely different things and were not the same.

The term "Album Oriented Radio" that dr whu gave the Wikipedia definition for is a FM radio show format peculiar to the Untied States of America. Since Wikipedia generally gives the American view of history (as most of its more vociferous editors are America) this is the only definition that Wikipedia will countenance - they do not tag any bands as being AOR nor do they define it as a genre or style of music. FM radio format is unique to the USA and was unknown in Europe at the time.

The term "Album Oriented Rock" that RYM defines is the generally accepted musical genre that has a distinct style and describes a very specific group of predominately American artists. Album Oriented Rock draws on (Classic) Progressive Rock and crosses over into MTV-friendly Pop Rock or Soft Rock territory - if you subtract Progressive Rock from Neo Prog the remainder would be Album Oriented Rock
.

The term "Adult Oriented Rock" that Svetonio uses is the (short-lived) British definition of a group of artists whose audience was predominately Adults (as opposed to Teens), like Album Orient Radio this is not a style or genre of music, merely a list of disparate artists whose music covered a variety of styles and genres - an unkind description would be that it is the Rock form of Easy Listening music. In the UK this was discarded as a term as the American Album Oriented Rock and the artists associated with it became more popular.




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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 03:23
^ Finally, someone's brought the differentiations between all this AOR hullabaloo - adult, album, rock, radio.......
It's all 'oriented' in such a way to appeal to the masses whichever way you hear it. I love Jefferson's Red Octopus, but I can't get into Christopher Cross' brand of 'AOR'. There are differences......


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 03:47
Another three PERFECT examples of AOR.












Pete Townshend's solo efffort Empty Glass is Rock / Adult Oriented Rock album from 1980 which get a great success, especially in the U.S where Let My Love Open The Door become a top ten hit single.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 04:02
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...)
The term "Adult Oriented Rock" that Svetonio uses is the (short-lived) British definition of a group of artists whose audience was predominately Adults (as opposed to Teens), like Album Orient Radio this is not a style or genre of music, merely a list of disparate artists whose music covered a variety of styles and genres (...)


Exactly!



Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 04:48
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...)
The term "Adult Oriented Rock" that Svetonio uses is the (short-lived) British definition of a group of artists whose audience was predominately Adults (as opposed to Teens), like Album Orient Radio this is not a style or genre of music, merely a list of disparate artists whose music covered a variety of styles and genres (...)


Exactly! 
But not the definition that anyone else other than you is currently using. Geek


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 04:50
ps: Stop posting fCensoreding Youtube videos!

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 04:58
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...)
The term "Adult Oriented Rock" that Svetonio uses is the (short-lived) British definition of a group of artists whose audience was predominately Adults (as opposed to Teens), like Album Orient Radio this is not a style or genre of music, merely a list of disparate artists whose music covered a variety of styles and genres (...)


Exactly!
But not the definition that anyone else other than you is currently using. Geek


Well, e.g. Rumors the album is "Classic Rock" now.
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 05:09
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.
Of course it bloody matters. Language is the means of conveying information that is understood by the people you are talking too. If you are using a different definition of the words you use to everyone else then no one will understand you. If no one understands you then no one will ever agree with you. Rumors was typical of Adult Oriented Rock, but AOR today, for the rest of the world except Svetonio, means Album Oriented Rock as typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto - NOT Fleetwood Mac.

Adult Oriented Rock is an archaic term - used for a brief period in the UK it back in the late 1970s and no one (except you) uses it now. It is not the subject of this poll.


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 05:17
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.
Of course it bloody matters. Language is the means of conveying information that is understood by the people you are talking too. If you are using a different definition of the words you use to everyone else then no one will understand you. If no one understands you then no one will ever agree with you. Rumors was typical of Adult Oriented Rock, but AOR today, for the rest of the world except Svetonio, means Album Oriented Rock as typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto - NOT Fleetwood Mac.

Adult Oriented Rock is an archaic term - used for a brief period in the UK it back in the late 1970s and no one (except you) uses it now. It is not the subject of this poll.

Objection! I demand that the discussion using the original terminology that was invented in the second half of the seventies and widely used untill early eighties

LOL


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 05:29
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
ObjectionI demand that the discussion using the original terminology that was invented in the second half of the seventies and widely used untill early eighties




I'm sorry you weren't living in the UK or USA in the 1970s - it's not my fault and I cannot change that. I'm also sorry that your interpretation of received knowledge does not agree with the personal experiences of those who were - again, this is not my fault and I cannot change that. All I can do is politely point out that you are talking about a completely different subject to everyone else. I'm sorry that this does not make you a maverick or an enlightened being, it just makes you look odd (and not in a good way).


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 06:20
^ LOL call me crazy but I refuse to accept so stupid thing that e.g. Nazareth was / is Adult Oriented Rock, and Fleetwood Mac wasn't - only because somebody like you say so at internet.











Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 06:29
Time for that *faceplam*




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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 06:32
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...)
The term "Adult Oriented Rock" that Svetonio uses is the (short-lived) British definition of a group of artists whose audience was predominately Adults (as opposed to Teens), like Album Orient Radio this is not a style or genre of music, merely a list of disparate artists whose music covered a variety of styles and genres (...)


Exactly!
But not the definition that anyone else other than you is currently using. Geek


Well, e.g. Rumors the album is "Classic Rock" now.
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.
What the hell is "classic rock"?
 
Just wondering, is there any type of rock that isn't adult oriented? I can only think of the US kiddy metal bands that seem to proliferate on Kerrang TV these days.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 06:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Time for that *faceplam*






Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 06:39
*sigh*

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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 07:11
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

What the hell is "classic rock"?

Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 07:47
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL
Ignorance is bliss it seems.

In the derisible field of Disco Donna Summer stood out as being a cut above the rest. Early in her career she sang in prog rock band and has, as we all know, covered Jon & Vangelis' State Of Independance and an 18 minute cover of Jimmy Webb's MacArthur Park. Most of her albums were concept albums and many tracks ran for considerably longer than the standard 3 minute mark. Steven Wilson is a big fan and influenced his early recordings with No-Man. During the Berlin sessions with David Bowie, Eno said of I Feel Love "I have heard the sound of the future... This is it, look no further. This single is going to change the sound of club music for the next fifteen years."

Scoff all you like, it doesn't change the fact that:

Originally posted by Dean, March 2011 Dean, March 2011 wrote:

I'd rather dip my ears in custard and treacle than listen to AOR.

* http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56892&PID=4122605#4122605" rel="nofollow - link * 


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 09:09
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

What the hell is "classic rock"?

Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL
Eh? Confused


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 09:22
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

What the hell is "classic rock"?

Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL
Eh? Confused
classic example of "when your argument fails apply the ad hominem stratagem" Wink


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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 13:37
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

What the hell is "classic rock"?

Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL
Eh? Confused
Just kidding, chopper.

Please enjoy in this great disco song by Sir Elton John, and forget my stupid jokes.





He's great, isn't? Victim of Love...


Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 13:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.
Of course it bloody matters. Language is the means of conveying information that is understood by the people you are talking too. If you are using a different definition of the words you use to everyone else then no one will understand you. If no one understands you then no one will ever agree with you. Rumors was typical of Adult Oriented Rock, but AOR today, for the rest of the world except Svetonio, means Album Oriented Rock as typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto - NOT Fleetwood Mac.

Adult Oriented Rock is an archaic term - used for a brief period in the UK it back in the late 1970s and no one (except you) uses it now. It is not the subject of this poll.


If language matters I hope you are calling Rumours - Rumors as a joke!  Confused


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Help me I'm falling!


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 13:54
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
During that short (or "short", doesn't matter anymore) period, Rumors was an archetype of Adult Oriented Rock.
Of course it bloody matters. Language is the means of conveying information that is understood by the people you are talking too. If you are using a different definition of the words you use to everyone else then no one will understand you. If no one understands you then no one will ever agree with you. Rumors was typical of Adult Oriented Rock, but AOR today, for the rest of the world except Svetonio, means Album Oriented Rock as typified by Asia, Boston, Foreigner, Journey, Survivor and Toto - NOT Fleetwood Mac.

Adult Oriented Rock is an archaic term - used for a brief period in the UK it back in the late 1970s and no one (except you) uses it now. It is not the subject of this poll.


If language matters I hope you are calling Rumours - Rumors as a joke!  Confused
Oh and actually not, Rumors is short for Rumours.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 14:13
PLEASE FOR PETE'S SAKE STOP POSTING FCensoredKING YOUTUBE VIDEOS!

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 14:16
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

 

If language matters I hope you are calling Rumours - Rumors as a joke!  Confused
I'm dyslexic, I have enough problems fighting the urge to put an effing "h" in it - but yeah, copying Sventonio's error was stupid of me - I apologuese appologuies apologies apologise.


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Oh and actually not, Rumors is short for Rumours.
No it isn't. One is the American English spelling and the other is the British English spelling. The name of the album as shown on the cover uses the British English spelling and that is therefore the name of the album. The American English spelling is therefore wrong in this instance. You cannot cry and stamp your tiny feet and argue your way out of this. I made a mistake in copying your spelling and that is inexcusable - the name of the album is Rumours.



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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: July 01 2014 at 20:04
Did I miss the memo that Rick Wakeman is scouting our forum for candidates to appear on his Grumpy Old Men show? Rumour is that Dean might be in the running.

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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 11:37
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Did I miss the memo that Rick Wakeman is scouting our forum for candidates to appear on his Grumpy Old Men show? Rumour is that Dean might be in the running.
 
LOL


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 11:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

 

If language matters I hope you are calling Rumours - Rumors as a joke!  Confused
I'm dyslexic, I have enough problems fighting the urge to put an effing "h" in it - but yeah, copying Sventonio's error was stupid of me - I apologuese appologuies apologies apologise.


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Oh and actually not, Rumors is short for Rumours.
No it isn't. One is the American English spelling and the other is the British English spelling. The name of the album as shown on the cover uses the British English spelling and that is therefore the name of the album. The American English spelling is therefore wrong in this instance. You cannot cry and stamp your tiny feet and argue your way out of this. I made a mistake in copying your spelling and that is inexcusable - the name of the album is Rumours.

You've obviously been reading the cover wrong all this time Dean.




Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 12:04
LOL 


I know it's childish, but I still giggle at Mick's low-slung spheroids. LOL


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 12:07
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

What the hell is "classic rock"?

Quote Originally posted by Dean
In two words: Donna Summer.  

I apologize for this collage, but it was stronger than me LOLLOL
Eh? Confused
Just kidding, chopper.

Please enjoy in this great disco song by Sir Elton John, and forget my stupid jokes.





He's great, isn't? Victim of Love...
Thanks for the video but that is truly dire. In general the term "great disco" is an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 02 2014 at 12:10
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL 


I know it's childish, but I still giggle at Mick's low-slung spheroids. LOL
I've spent many an hour wondering about those particular items. Why? Did the photographer think they were a good idea? Is there some strange kind of sexual significance with them and Stevie Nicks?


Posted By: Altairius
Date Posted: July 03 2014 at 07:19
AOR can actually be pretty strong stuff, some of the best standard rock music. Very 'clean' stuff and usually very well produced. Disco often sounds kind of limp to me, but it's not too bad and there are a couple decent pop songs within it (mainly by the Bee Gees who had been at it awhile).


Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: July 13 2014 at 00:45
Don't like either of them, but I prefer AOR.

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When he rides, my fears subside.
For darkness turns once more to light.
Through the skies, his white horse flies.
To find a land beyond the night.


Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: July 13 2014 at 02:20
Originally posted by Altairius Altairius wrote:

AOR can actually be pretty strong stuff, some of the best standard rock music. Very 'clean' stuff and usually very well produced. Disco often sounds kind of limp to me, but it's not too bad and there are a couple decent pop songs within it (mainly by the Bee Gees who had been at it awhile).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqqjU7u5Yc" rel="nofollow - Bee Gees actually have some songs who are sounding both as a music for dance and AOR, as that 'adult oriented' style was covered many genres back then - even http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njwasr1OOuc" rel="nofollow - jazz  




Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 03:25
AOR is good while disco sucks an enormous amount of arse

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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"


Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 03:59
Not voting. Both are equally good and bad.
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL 


I know it's childish, but I still giggle at Mick's low-slung spheroids. LOL
Hm! ... I haven't noticed those before.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 14 2014 at 05:19
Both are mostly awful to my ears, but there is some AOR I can tolerate; some Toto, Boston et al, so long as I don't have to look at the band while listening to the the music.



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!



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