Guitarists: Impossible slurs and improbable key
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98532
Printed Date: November 30 2024 at 04:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Guitarists: Impossible slurs and improbable key
Posted By: refugee
Subject: Guitarists: Impossible slurs and improbable key
Date Posted: June 08 2014 at 15:23
|
I checked Wikipedia’s article on fingering (no sexual jokes, please) and found the guitar example really strange: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingering#mediaviewer/File:GuitarFingeringScore.png" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingering#mediaviewer/File:GuitarFingeringScore.png First, both the slurs are impossible to play, at least with this fingering. A slur means that the music should be played legato, and for the guitar this implies that only the first note is plucked. This just can’t be done when they are played on different strings, which is the case for both of the slurs here. Second, I have a strong feeling that there should have been a sharp for the F (i.e., the key is E minor). Otherwise it’s really bad fingering to play the 10th note (F/F#) on the 4th string and the 11th (E) on the 5th. I also find it a bit awkward to use the 4th finger on the C (it’s easier to use the 3rd), but I guess that’s more individual. What do you think – am I right or am I right? ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Replies:
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 10 2014 at 09:33
|
Although the fingering does indicate that the note does require to be plucked a second time (from another string) albeit at lower volume as befitting the legato instruction, it should be borne in mind that pianists have to interpret legato where every note is struck i.e. they do not have the equivalent of hammer on and hammer off as practiced by players of fretted instruments. ------------- 
|
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 10 2014 at 11:14
True. Still this fingering with be worthless for a pianist. Open strings?  The reason why I ask is that I want to inform Wikipedia that the example is unplayable so they can change it, and before I do that, I’d like to hear what other guitarists think. I’ve been playing classical guitar for 35 years, so I’m pretty sure I’m right, but if another musician tells me that the fingering is ok, I’ll have to reconsider it. I don’t have any money to donate to Wiki, so the least I can do to help them is to point out obvious errors. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 10 2014 at 21:16
| You can easily hammer onto a different string than the one you plucked... it's basically the same thing as "finger tapping" techniques, but with your left hand instead of right. |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 11 2014 at 10:37
It’s a common technique on electric guitar, and it’s possible to do it on almost any plucked instrument. Still it’s not widely used by classical guitarists, though there are exceptions like this (around 48 seconds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5A3joxA_VI&feature=player_embedded#at=192" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5A3joxA_VI&feature=player_embedded#at=192 I sincerely doubt that this was the intention of the Wiki composer "Memoryboy" (hereafter called Mb). In the example granted, it would make the passage much harder to play, and it would sound poorer. Have you tried to play it yourself? I have. My guess is that Mb doesn’t, or didn’t, know what the slurs actually mean when you write music for the guitar. I also think that Mb forgot the key signature: It should be E minor, not A minor or E Phrygian. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Triceratopsoil wrote:Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 11 2014 at 13:20
| I do agree that the passage is likely not suitable for the page, just saying that there are not really physical limitations to slurring like that |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 11 2014 at 14:15
k. (quoting Vompatti here) Thanks for your input!  But what do you think about the key? My impression is that they have copied one measure, forgetting about the key signature (one sharp). ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: June 12 2014 at 03:24
If the measures were taken from the midst of a part, no wonder we won't see the G-clef / key signature, but maybe it'd be easier to understand if they were showing similar info with a small whole part and melody that all hold together. Hammering the E2 is the only way I've found to make it sound like a slur, so that the fingering make sense. ------------- http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing ! https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection |
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: June 12 2014 at 08:20
|
EDIT 1st slur = very awkward fingering thus suspicious 2nd slur=I don't know but if you say hammering to be unusual it's also suspicious So probably E minor instead of phrygian. I won't bet against you on that one.
------------- http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing ! https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 12 2014 at 10:49
|
Thanks, jayem! During the weekend, I will write a comment to post on the talk page, but I will post it here first so we can discuss it. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |