Mahavishnu Orchestra
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96598
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 06:17
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Topic: Mahavishnu Orchestra
Posted By: Ady Cardiac
Subject: Mahavishnu Orchestra
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 13:17
hi.....tried to find topic on these but not working......anyways discovered these the other day.....i read they were proggy and although i have heard the name John Mclaughlin i had not heard any......i got a box set with some vouchers.....their first 3 albums and a live album and another bonus disc of live stuff.......and loving it......does anyone have any tips where to go on this......i like the heavier stuff but also would love some acoustic stuff too.
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Replies:
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 13:39
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Any of the albums up to "Visions Of The Emerald Beyond" have merit. After that, the quality is greatly diminished. You may want to check out the earlier McLaughlin albums, as well. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 13:55
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 14:45
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Check out 'Spectrum' by Billy Cobham. ------------- |
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 14:57
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For some great acoustic stuff, don't miss out on "Friday Night in San Francisco" with Al Di Meola and Paco de Lucia. Many tracks on this Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=friday+night+in+san+francisco+album" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=friday+night+in+san+francisco+album
Also, recently he had great band that sort of went back to the Mahavishnu or electric sound, but no violin. They were called John McLaughlin and the 4th Diminsion. I saw their first show back in 2007, you can find a lot of their stuff at this website, Abstract Logix (I think he is somehow affiliated or helped start this site):
http://www.abstractlogix.com/index.php" rel="nofollow - http://www.abstractlogix.com/index.php
Youtube clips of the 4th Diminsion: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+mclaughlin+and+the+4th+dimension&sm=1" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+mclaughlin+and+the+4th+dimension&sm=1
Couple of albums of interest in electric fusion vein are "Industrial Zen" and "Floating Point"
If the "Lost Trident Sessions" were not in your Mahvishnu collection, that is also worthy.
Have fun! ------------- 
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 15:14
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It's a bit of a change of pace, but if you want acoustic stuff, you could check out McLaughlin's work with Shakti.
------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: BirdzzZ on day Flu
Date Posted: January 06 2014 at 15:46
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Never understood the Visions of the Emerald Beyond hate. It's definitely not as good as the original line-up, but it's a tight knit collection of great songs. And the opener hauls major luggage. |
Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 05:01
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Cynic
Hiromi's Sonicbloom Shining
------------- Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today. |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 06:50
Heard a lot of Mahavishnu and very impressed - especially the live material.
 also loved  and  and first 4 albums are excellent ------------- 
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 11:52
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The additional live tracks on the Columbia box set are outstanding. By that point in time the band were so used to playing the Inner Mounting Flame and Birds Of Fire material ...that they played it twice the speed of the original tempo and sometimes much faster than that? I mean...it was very great ..but I miss hearing the band perform their set list from the early tour when they appeared on Don Kirshner's "In Concert". I have yet to see a release of a concert or a soundboard recording , (cleaned up), on cd. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 20:16
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:13
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Hi,
I would love to see John Petrucci, one of these days, have some fun with Jon McLaughlin. I bet he would be one of the few folks that can keep up with him, and might even do better. The main difference might be that Mac is way more versed and comfortable in improvisation and experiment than John is.
Would be a nice ... fun ... battle of the guitars! But it has to be a fun battle! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:40
This annoys the hell out of me. No offense to you and hope none is taken. It bothers me that this happens with no other existing instrument on the face of the earth. It's not just the "Guitar Hero" concept..but the idea itself that most people in society single out the guitar as an instrument designed for a contest between 2 people.....which at first seems subtle, humble...but later progresses into a duel. This has been happening in the Jazz Fusion world for decades and I find it useless because it represents the importance of the ego itself. This is when your chances of being a pure and humble musician are light years away. Now you're putting all of your energy into being very gymnastic and where does that go beyond a showboat representation of yourself?
John Mclaughlin plays scales derived from many different cultures. He improvises all of it and it is very fluent. It is very advanced work. He is also more of a schooled Jazz player from his history with Miles Davis.
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moshkito wrote:Posted By: King Only
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 11:08
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I love the original Mahavishnu Orchestra lineup.
Jan Hammer's debut album "The First Seven Days" is very good also (definitely some prog elements in it too). I've also enjoyed some of Billy Cobham's solo works.
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 11:30
I would rather watch a Steven Seagal movie. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 21:44
Jan's The First Seven Days is one of my very favorite albums, and Like Children by Jan and Jerry is fantastic, too.
 ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 06:58
I'm sorry Moshkito for coming across so harshly . It's not your fault...but my problem. I find guitar contests repulsive...but of course I can understand how people would like it and how it would excite them. Please understand....I hold you in the highest regard.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:31
| I love the first 4 or 5 Billy Cobham titles. Originally had Crosswinds on LP in the 70's. I checked out his other early releases after purchasing The Best Of Billy Cobham. I kept the Best of and appreciate the track flow that many compilation releases from most artist's don't seem to have. Like Children and actually all of Jan Hammer's early releases are worthwhile. The compilation title The Early Years is a good place to start. Early solo albums from John McLaughlin are outstanding. I am not particularly fond of Devotion....although technically it is a good album....I don't care for McLaughlin's guitar tone on that album...in the same sense that I disliked his guitar tone on Miles Davis Tribute to Jack Johnson. Tribute to Jack Johnson is one of my favorite Miles Davis titles, but I dislike the McLaughlin solo at the closing of "Right Off". Devotion has the same guitar tone and it ruined the enjoyment of the album for me. McLaughlin's choice of sound/tone on every other Miles Davis recording plus his early solo works is a fine tone combined with impeccable playing. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:33
Yep, these chop battles are tantamount to 'Ebony & Ivory' for speed typists.. Just wanted to say that the Mahavishnu Orchestra represent for me what Fusion should have been and not the hollow victory for accuracy it degenerated into very quickly ------------- 
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Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:46
Not familiar with that one, looks worthy of checking out! Speaking of Jerry Goodman, he also worked on an album with John Czajkowski on a project called Hectic Watermelon, The Great American Road Trip. Very good stuff fusion/rock ecletic mix, it is listed here in PA.
 http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=15114" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=15114
Also, as listed by Toddler, Cobham's stuff is excellent too! -------------
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 07:55
It's interesting that you mention this. On Miles Davis' Bitches Brew..each musician takes a turn in improvising. It gets very boring for some people, but the point is..it is not about showboating..but expression. Sometimes in the fusion days of the 70's, 1 guitarist would play a fast passage of notes and in return the other guitarist would attempt to play their passage in hopes of simply keeping up to the level of challenge. Before it was over..I wanted to knock their heads together like Moe would proceed to do with Larry and Curly. The reason being that the music was lost due to the masturbation represented on stage. Jan Hammer used to have that kind of interplay with John McLaughlin, but it had more to do with Hammer wanting to be a guitarist. So...we are back to square 1 in assuming that people and musicians attach egotistical mentalities to one particular instrument.
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Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 13:25
| Did the fusion scene really get that bad? I'm familiar with the usual suspects (Mahavishnu, Weather Report, Santana, Return to Forever, electric Miles, etc) but then kind of tuned out until recently. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 09:45
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The fusion scene in the late 70's and part of the early 80's had this attitude or programming in the minds of young fusion guitarists. I played 5 to 6 nights a week, traveling from state to state, and had to deal with this ignorant attitude especially in N.Y. and Philadelphia. Guitarists would finish college and hit the road to show everyone what they had learned from their little modern guitar method college books...instead of thinking more about what "free form" expression really was. Every guitarist ...at that time...with the exception of a few...was programmed to upstage all guitarists on the road. This was a mentality that developed within the musician's society and the more snooty type of Jazz fusion fan who attended shows to see a contest of "cutting heads". There was no real need for it except to get the attention of fast women and egotistical Jazz fans who thought a gymnastic contest was the answer to life and music.
People have mentioned the musical mind expansion of Popol Vuh. I can reassure you that there is no contest in that. There is no contest in expressing "free form" which is what the great Miles Davis taught us. I was always being put on the spot. I had played Bucky Pizzarelli and Johnny Smith Jazz arrangements at age 13 and was classically trained playing nylon string the Charlie Byrd style. I was playing a lot of Pat Metheny and John McLaughlin style improvisation on guitar in my early 20's when I use to open for Doc Severson Band. Fusion guitarists tried to put the pressure on me then. If they couldn't play faster or more technical than me...they would attempt to pay off the sound tech to muddle my guitar sound or place an abundance of echo so that my right hand alternate picking sounded like unprofessional nonsense. It was bad....I mean really bad when guitarists felt they had to go that distance. I imagine Fusion guitarists back then with recording contracts found this attitude laughable.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 10:00
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There was this attitude about Rock music that made little sense to me. In the 70's prior to the "Stadium Rock" movement..there wasn't anything negative to remark about in Rock music. Ten Years After had a Jazz mentality kind of playing, Deep Purple fused Classical and Rock, Humble Pie colored their Rock songs with harmonica, piano, harmony vocals, and Frampton style leads with slight Jazzy reflections. Why would a bunch of fusion guitarists make fun of that? That was when Rock music actually had something to offer in the musicianship department. They just closed their minds off from anything eclectic about Rock and the importance of composition. What about Happy the Man? They used to take solos , taking turns...but on different instruments. They were disregarded when I traveled the circuit because their ideology about music revolved around the emphasis put on composition and true honest expression and not some contest of "cutting heads". This is another reason why those type of bands fell by the wayside. They simply were not interested in contests during the fusion period when it was so dominet. |
Posted By: schizoidman
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 11:00
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From the 1984 album "Mahavishnu":
From the 1975 album "Visions of the Emerald Beyond":
------------- Making the useless useful 24/7. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:29
You know I would have agreed with that when I first got into prog. But Inner Worlds is damn good, too.  And then I didn't have high regard for the new version that formed in 1984. Then I got the Live at Montreaux DVD, and I've warmed up to that incarnation. Jonas Hellborg is a monster bassist. I got Like Children at a used record store many years ago and Jan Hammer Group's Oh Yeah! and they pair up nicely. Used to have them copied on opposite sides of a 90 minute cassette. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 11:45
No offense taken. I was not thinking of a guitar battle at all.
So we can not imagine two guitars playing together anymore? A guitar has to be a single instrument and it can not talk? So listening to Eric and Duane ... is a guitar duel?
I kinda disagree, specially as so much progressive and prog music is about the instruments playing together and creating something new. Both John and Jon do not have to prove to anyone anything, and they can just play.
I'm not sure that John P is not as well versed in the jazz traditions, I think he is, though he might not be using these as openly as we think, though the changes in many pieces are very much jazz like, a lot more than the setup that most rock bands have for the chorus or the bs or the theme or the more bs and so on. In that sense, I would say that John P would probably do just fine, as soon as he got a handle on it.
Don't forget that John P is very well schooled in music, even if it is Berklee, which you could say was the equivalent of the Berlin schools of music, though they ended up creating a different style of music! But the musicianship involved is not in question, and should not be! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 17:12
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 23:12
Interesting perspective! Chicago fans LOVED our jazz-rock fusion guitar, the wilder, the better! Our homespun scene didn't have a school like Berklee or GIT, so our guys were either self-taught, schooled with private lessons, or obtained degrees from schools like University of Illinois or DePaul, which had strong jazz programs. Local heroes include Father John Moulder (a priest/jazzer!), Dave Onderdonk (a UI-degreed classical guitarist who crosses over to jazz & fusion), Chris Siebold (formerly of the Brand X-flavored "Kick the Cat"), and some kids about 1979-80 named "Apprentice" who blazed! Can't find them anywhere on the web! Also Spyro Gyra and a lot of blues-flavored fusion outfits. Chicago was held back because we didn't have the TV/radio jingle, orchestra pit/Broadway show and recording opportunities of the East and West coasts. We've tried mightily, we even had a "Third Coast" record company that came and went! Even today, we lag in local music production....most folks head out for more money, warmer weather etc. This is a nice town to be a fan because we get nearly all the touring fusion guys coming through...we have a wide range of venues from tiny bars to auditoriums. Fusion still lives, although it isn't as prevalent as it was in the late 1970s.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 08:31
A great post! Very educational.
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