Shepherds of Cassini (New Zealand) for Prog Metal
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95179
Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 00:09
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Shepherds of Cassini (New Zealand) for Prog Metal
Posted By: Svetonio
Subject: Shepherds of Cassini (New Zealand) for Prog Metal
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 00:22
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http://shepherdsofcassini.bandcamp.com/album/shepherds-of-cassini" rel="nofollow - http://shepherdsofcassini.bandcamp.com/album/shepherds-of-cassini https://myspace.com/shepherdsofcassini" rel="nofollow - https://myspace.com/shepherdsofcassini
https://soundcloud.com/shepherds-of-cassini" rel="nofollow - https://soundcloud.com/shepherds-of-cassini http://www.reverbnation.com/shepherdsofcassini" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/shepherdsofcassini https://www.facebook.com/shepherdsofcassiniband" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/shepherdsofcassiniband http://www.youtube.com/user/shepherdsofcassini" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/shepherdsofcassini |
Replies:
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 04:59
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At it again eh Svetonio? Can I just make one observation: During your little break from suggesting bands for inclusion, I noticed you posting all of these acts in either the unsigned area of PA, or the bandcamp thread. Now as far as I've been able to see, there's been exactly zero comments made in either of these threads. Not a single post commenting on how great/bad the given music is... I'm not suggesting that the music is inferior in any way, shape or form, but I am however a little concerned about the workload you keep pushing onto the teams, when you now (again) go back to your old ways of suggesting bands by the hundreds - and none of the acts you push seem to garner any positive feedback. Hell they don't receive any feedback at all whatsoever. I could understand your doings, if these acts had a following, or you'd heard them on the radio, talked to some fans about em - yet the more I see of your suggestions, the more obvious it becomes, that you're basically just looking through the bandcamp site for artists with descriptions such as 'progressive' or 'experimental'. A friendly suggestion on my behalf would be that you'd consider yourself more with the acts you've already pushed through here on PA, and maybe help trying to write bios, add albums etc etc. Help the site instead of overburdening it. From outside of all these threads of yours, I find your posts to be charming and enthusiastic, but it kinda irks me when you continue down this path, when collabs time and again have asked you to chill. Chris was very kind last time when he asked you for a fortnight's rest, but personally I think you should stop altogether. PA is infinitely more than quantity, but the way you insist on approaching it, I'm not entirely sure you agree with me. This is entirely my own sentiments on this matter. I'm not speaking anyone's mind but my own. I just think this has gone on long enough now. You don't seem to acknowledge the workload on the other side of the PA curtain - or maybe you just don't care. Either way, I find it highly disrespectful and downright stupid. There I said it. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 05:02
------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 05:52
Actually, it's not true. Just for record: 1)PA Forum members' comments on my threads that I posted recently at "Unsigned Bands" forum http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95023" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95023 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95014" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95014http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95091 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95094" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95094 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95107" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95107 2) There are a number of members' comments on my reccomandations at "Bandcamp reccomandations" thread, so I pick up just one http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=12" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69197&PN=12 3) Widhawk's Review of the debut album by U.S. "bandcamp band" (with "name your price" releases only) added by my suggestion http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7188#reviews" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7188#reviews A number of the reviews of "~" by THE best Russian prog-rock band added by my suggestion http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7504#reviews" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7504#reviews 4) About "feedback"... One of These Days' debut, by awesome Spanish band added to Psych/Space section a week ago by my suggestion, already get 4 stars. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8436#reviews" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8436#reviews aa
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Guldbamsen wrote:Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 06:23
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The Bandcamp thread is 54 pages long - that's 1,063 posts - 99% of them are from you - one post=one band with hardly ever any discussion. In the New Suggestions thread it is impossible to count how many bands you have suggested because it is more than 100 in the past six months alone (100 is the maximum number the Search routine will return). In Unsigned bands you have suggested 30 different bands. Of course you will have successes. Dumb random luck will have successes, but there are too many failures. Sorry but the current low success rate is too expensive on our collaborators time for it to continue like this. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 07:33
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@Dean Yes, I made Bandcamp thread that big. Is that something bad for this site? If is, then that's something new because untill now nobody have objections, on contrary - my "work" is praised by many PA' members who are open-minded. Anyway. One can check all the bands added to PA by my suggestions, and will find no one band or solo arist which is not good and "not prog at all". Sorry, but I can't accept that's only a result of "random device". That's result of great work and credits go to me and to The Teams (I LOVE THEM ALL). Actually, almost all of old bands are already in Arhives. That story is almost over, I mean, to find a hidden gem from e.g.1976. Now, we are in the middle of great new wave of Prog. This time for progressive music is like early 70s. A lot of new bands release their great debuts every day. For example, Shepherds Of Cassini from New Zealend. Some of us can't see (hear) that, and then called the new bands and artists as "bandcamp bands", "bedroom magicians", also a succesful and long term suggester is graded on rejected bands (what is imposible to not be a lot of them) not on added bands, etc. ... that's sad. P.S. please don't shoot me...
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 07:54
BANG!!!  Tell you what Svetonio, if you're that insisting on finding new acts to show to all of us here at PA, then I welcome you. I never said anything about the quality of the music you suggested either. I actually went out of my way to underline that aspect in my initial post, but you obviously neglected to see that. Anyway, keep up this searching - it's all fine by me. Just for the love of god: keep these recommendations in the unsigned area or bandcamp thread. If enough people start shouting about just how wonderful and amazing any of these acts are, then let's take it from there and look at an inclusion. Right now you seem to be the only person on here who wants to add them, maybe outside of the artist in question. You say you love all of the teams, but you still keep pushing all these suggestions our way like a person with obsessive compulsion disorder. What about helping out with a bio or adding some freaking albums instead?? I'm sorry if my tone is less friendly this time, but the way you insist on pursuing this issue pisses me off. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 08:08
I could not give a damn about the size of the Bandcamp thread, no one bothers to read it any more now anyway. (Yes, you've broken it). Personally I no longer see the point of it, Bandcamp.com itself is more than sufficient as a repository for those links without our help. When it was carefully selecting bands of interest then there was some value to it, now it's just wallpaper and wasted space on our sever. I did not say your successes were random, bad or not Prog (though I will keep saying this until I am blue in the face - we don't add bands because they are good), I said that random luck will have success. If I randomly pick 1000 bands from Bandcamp without even listening to them there will be some bands in there that will be suitable for addition here. I will have random success. That's is simple probability. My cat could do it if she had opposable thumbs and could read and could navigate a web-browser (she is called "Mouse" so who knows?). If you had a 50% success-rate I'd still think it was no better than random flipping of a coin. To be of any value and to be worthwhile, your "hit-rate" should be 99 accepted in every 100 suggested. Seriously. If you were "in tune" with what we were looking for then you would be more successful, if you did not keep flooding us with everything you find and were more selective you would be more helpful, if you could actually follow the suggestion guidelines and provide the information we ask for then you would be more useful... and you would piss-off a lot less people.
The world record for a human being shot out of a cannon is 50.05m, somehow I don't think that will be far enough. ------------- What? |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 08:09
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Almost all of artists say they need reviews or so rather than inclusion into PA. It's more reasonable for you to suggest artists, with your reviews for their albums.  ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 12 2013 at 16:00
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Briefly, I will second every word Dean and David said. I started off happy in the New Suggestions team as a collab. After a little while, I simply could not keep up with the workload - it was getting harder and more time consuming than work itself, so I had to stop. Also, Svetonio, I must say it also ceased to be a pleasure. Sometimes, less is more. Please take the hint, from people who continue to keep this site going. They know what they are talking about, and they are, more importantly, right. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 00:15
| What about the band? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 07:32
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Post about it in the bandcamp thread and see what people think about it. If it garners enough positive feedback and people want it included on PA, then let's take it from there. The same goes for all the other bandcamp suggestions you throw at us. I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but maybe you just don't read too well? Frankly I'm at the point where I think we should just ignore your suggestions altogether. You seem to have zero respect for this site and how it's run, - you won't help out with the bands you've pushed through, you don't follow the guidelines for suggesting bands, and to top it all off, you never listen to what the collabs have to say to you. This is not about Sherperds of Cassini, for all I know they could be the bee's knees, but the way you go about all of this, I just don't care any more. I'm done evaluating anything from you. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 08:23
You can and you have every right to ignore me, for example at PA' Prog Music Lounge forum, but you have no right to ignore this pretty impersonalized suggestion. Actually, aside of your thought (from you first post from above) that I should not have right to suggest the bands as others PA' members as well, this is the legitimate suggestion with all the links that you (or somebody else) need to evoluate an amazing prog metal band called Shepherds of Cassini; maybe it wil be more easier for you to do it if I mind you that Svetonio is not the member of the band.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 08:32
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First of all: we don't have to do anything Svetonio. This site is run by volunteers. We all have lives outside of this place. We are more than happy to look at new suggestions, especially if they're done right - and no you are still not doing it right. Personally I'm done helping you out with overburdening the teams. Something you have never addressed. I'm through with this "conversation" as you again neglect to concern yourself with the real part of the problem. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 08:37
I think you need a rest, not me. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 08:52
No. It's definitely you. ------------- What? |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 19 2013 at 13:33
Let's be even more blunt, shall we? Get a bloody life  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: December 09 2013 at 18:53
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Sorry for bringing this thread back up, but holy sh*t you guys are dicks. I'm really starting to wonder why I still come here, when RYM does everything you do, but more and better, and they don't have admins and mods that complain about people trying to expand the database.
------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 09 2013 at 19:05
Then I politely suggest you go away, no one is forcing you to come here. ------------- What? |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: December 09 2013 at 19:23
Calling these guys who devote time to running the website "dicks" is disrespectful and immature and should not be tolerated. Now go wash your mouth out with soap.
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Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 01:20
I respect their time and energy gone into the site, but they should respect Svetonio's time and energy going into finding these artists. I mean, if he didn't add them, then I would have, he just sped up the process. And I know, as someone who has seen these guys live and am friends with several people close to the band, I know that they are grateful to him for taking the time to suggest them here. If you guys are so busy that you can't keep up, why not give Svetonio the privileges to add the bands himself? What about me? What about half the site members? I don't why you need to make it so hard for bands to be added, but you can't have a go at the guy who's suggesting them. Are you not meant to be the largest progressive rock database? So, you berate people for suggesting bands for your database and because the adding process is so flawed, you complain that the workload is too high, yet these bands are most likely going to be added by other members over time. Sorry for being the guy to pull this up, but I really felt Svetonio had done nothing but good, and that he was the only one on the other side of this debate.
------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 01:57
When we allowed just anyone to add a band we got too many additions that were simply not Prog, the team system, however slow that may appear, guarantees that the addition is considered to be Prog by at least two other people who have demonstrated that they understand the sub genre and the addition process. it also guarantees that the addition is done properly and completely, we have too many bands added without biographies, images and discographies from the days when just anyone could add a band. Svetonio has said himself he is not interested in providing that information so that automatically excludes him from ever being permitted to add bands. Similarly, people with vested interests would also be excluded. No matter how much you criticise the system and insult those who donate their time for free, it doesn't not work. We are not RYM, nor do we ever want to be; we are not Bandcamp, nor do we ever want to be. If you do not like what we do here and how we do it then simply don't visit the site, it's not rocket science. You can be as sorry as you like for bringing this up, it doesn't alter anything and calling us dicks certainly won't improve your chances of changing anything. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 02:28
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Actually, http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=8583" rel="nofollow - Shepherds of Cassini have been added to the site. I must say I'm getting increasingly frustrated with evaluating and adding Bandcamp bands, more then half of them I consider too amateur to be here (like these Cassini guys), and from what I have seen 90% of such artists that we have added in the metal prog subs in the last 3 years never seem to get any review or rating. What's the point then? Because of all this evaluation work we don't even get to do what I think would matter more: like periodically checking/updating bios and discographies for bands that do matter (read get ratings) to prog metal fans. Personally I'm all for tighter rules of what we should even consider for evaluation. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 05:22
I am not inclined to add bands that don't have enough interest for me personally, in terms of quality songwriting and production values and i just hope that every members who vote think the same. Maybe that the reality of the Prog Metal genre compare to The Heavy Prog genre is very different, because there is a lot more different kind of progressive metal then on the HP genre, which could affect the evaluation process. The voting system seems to me to be fair but maybe we should also vote for what we should consider for evaluation. I am not sure but, i think that only one individual is voting at the moment, and i can't complain about it. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 05:37
In fact, it was a slightly different. When I was asked for the first time to write the bios for Prog Archives, I replied that there is no problem that I prescribe a bio from Myspace (the service which was the "hit" at that time) or from a band's official website. I'v been told then that the transcription from Myspace or a official website is not allowed because a bio must be written originally for Prog Archives. Of course, I said that my English is very poor by this task. When I'v been asked the same for the second time, I didn't wanna to say *no*, so I said ok, that's fine, but I asked for some help of the SCs; I didn't get any response. Later two - three times I'v been asked for more the details who weren't already published by the bands, and I helped as best I could - I contacted the bands. So, the SCs get these necessary details directly from the artists ( e.g. Gravitsapa).
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 05:49
Gah! Noooooo! We are not here to judge quality or impose our personal preferences and predilections. If a band is Prog then they should be added regardless of how poor quality we believe the song-writing, playing or production to be. Good Prog and Bad Prog should be evaluated equally - reviews and ratings are for judging the quality of the album/artist, not the evaluations and additions process. We do however have the provision within the additions procedure not to evaluate unsigned bands whose self-released material we believe is not of a professional standard since we are a site for signed artists that has made some allowances for self-released albums. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 05:56
What exactly is an amateur stuff regarding Cassini guys? Are you think so because they're an unsigned band, or what? Just curious. Imho, they're fantastic band. Also, Cassini guys were released physical CD with beautiful artwork which fits very well to their music. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 06:28
The bands has to have a minimum of songwriting quality and production values to be consider Prog, judging that a band is not of professional standard is a subjective point of view... Judging that a band is Prog is subjective. I know that the goal is to be objective and that's why we vote but it's almost impossible to be completely objective. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 06:49
Nope. A band does not need to have a minimum of song-writing quality and production values to be consider Prog. Of course judging what is Prog is most certainly subjective, however it is most definitely not qualitative : bad Prog is still Prog. Judging that a band's product (ie "whose self-released material" and definitely not the band themselves - they are unsigned, this already establishes them technically as an non-professional band) is not of a professional standard is of course partly subjective and partly objective and is most certainly qualitative - if a band records their album using a cell-phone we reserve the right not to evaluate them for addition. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 06:59
In their case quality of the recording, and - to my ears - lack of experience with the material and playing together. Typically the kind of thing that you would expect a producer of a professional product to sort out for the band. Just to be clear, I voted Yes for the band, as they are prog (post-metal), no doubt about that, and that is what we are meant to evaluate in the team. My point is that I would like to see more severe addition rules, such as those 'professional' qualities, relevance, appearance on the web outside self-promotion platforms such as bandcamp. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 07:37
For my ears that full-lenght debut album is just great, and one of the best releases in the genre this year. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 08:45
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^Maybe you should do a review then
Let the front-page people know about this band. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 12:28
If you ask me to say something more about the album than JUST GREAT, I can tell you that at least I have not heard such a great dervish dance-like prog metal before. But, I do not have the talent to write a serious analysis as I have already said several times. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 13:07
Man, you're full of excuses. Just say you don't want to, that's a perfectly valid reason. You don't want to write biographies, you don't want to write reviews. Not excuses, just good, honest, solid and acceptable reasons. ------------- What? |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 13:42
Can't agree more |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: December 10 2013 at 16:42
You're a little hard on the bandcamp platform which is becoming more popular, there's more and more interesting prog artists, better than the "Bad Prog bands" 
that are using this to promote themselves by offering a complete
streaming of their albums, which is more satisfying for us than to
listen to 3 songs from a album on My Space.------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 01:11
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 02:27
No I'm not, Bandcamp is absolutely wonderful. MySpace a near disaster. But there is a lot of DIY from many self-proclaimed artists there, which I hope will one day either stop being suggested to us, or will somehow not make it to the evaluations teams. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 03:03
| What about a new PA sub-genre called for example "DIY Prog"? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 03:15
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We already have it, it's called "Unsigned Bands", we can rename that "Unsigned Bands and DIY Prog" if that makes it easier for you to understand.
What about not recommending bands that are not listed on Rate Your Music and All Music? ------------- What? |
Posted By: mogol
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 03:40
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I'm sorry to interfere ( and sorry in advance for my poor English), but doesn't anyone feel there is a problem with the whole system of evaluation/including new bands? Multiple teams judging only within a certain sun-genre, tossing non-standard bands from team to team, thus doing several times what might be done once. People in some teams seem to be overloaded with work (while others don't have anything to evaluate for months) and from their words this evaluation takes almost all of their time. Watching this forum I frequently see that some bands don't get included because they just don't fit neither of subgenres, while in each team (as well as among ordinary users) there are people considering them definitly progressive. I dare suggest several ways to improve the situation: 1. Make one evaluation team which firstly is to decide if a band is prog or not, and only secondly vote for a subgenre. Thus there will be no double/triple evaluation, non-standard artists will get more chances to be evaluated correctly, and the amount of work for evaluation team members will be spread more equally. 2. Anybody can add a band. Since there were problems earlier with bio's and pictures, it can be stated in rules that a newly added band's page, which does not have these for e.g. one months may be deleted. In order to define band's genres, etc., users are proposed to assign tags while voting. Some of these are Prog/Not Prog. Thus artists, which have more 'Not Prog' than 'Prog' votes may be deleted. One or several most frequently mentioned tags get stated as band's (or album's) genre. For example - Symphonic (70%), Neo (20%), Prog Metal (10%). Evaluating each album will result in more precise definition of each album's genres. Thus changes in band' s style can be seen. Such system will be self correcting and require less work for moderators/admins. More users involvement will result in more statistically accurate results. To ensure more professionalism in evaluating process, some group of members may be given a multiplicator for their votes (just like in current voting system)
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:12
LOL I said the sub-genre. As e.g. Eclectic Prog. 'Unsigned bands' is the sub-forum. Regard ignoring Rate Your Music(RYM), I mind you that RYM was welcomed here while ex-Admin Mr Alex ( harmonium.ro) was in the New Suggestions Team. So I'm a bit confused now. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:24
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Nothing to be confused about, Alex isn't here anymore - plus you are not reading that right. Dean is suggesting that you stop suggesting acts that AREN'T featured on RYM and Allmusic. So yeah, the exact obvious of what you expressed. Take into account what's featured on other sites, see if the band in question has any sort of internet presence outside of their bandcamp page. If not, then simply don't suggest the band.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:34
I'm sorry because I'm not reading that carefully. However, I'm confused more now - because there at RYM are a lot of unsigned bands. Nevermind. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:36
So... has the penny dropped yet? ...has it finally sunk in? ...do you understand what we are saying?
You are reading it wrong, see David's post. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:45
Not a lot, but a few. What there isn't is every Bandcamp wannabie. Use RYM and AllMusic as a filter. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 04:46
This is a very poor attempt at making an already flawed system even more impenetrable. I don't think PA is perfect, and nor should it be. We are "normal" ordinary people running this site, so naturally there are going to be flaws and things that can be improved on, sure. BUT exchanging one system for another system that is open to anyone, is ludicrous. 1) A new team to sort out if something is prog - before the team in question decides if it's prog? Well this just shows you how little you follow the forum. Sorry for being so blunt, but one of the first things folks realise when they start posting on here, is that there are just as many thoughts on what constitutes prog, as there are posters. A new team would merely slow things down even more. What they may find prog will then often be rejected when it hits the proper team, because the team has other thoughts on prog. Then you have the same running-round-circles - now only with yet another team in the mix. 2) This idea is mad. Just let anybody add acts and then we can always go back with a big fat eraser? This is crazy - mostly because the only person on PA who's able to delete artists, is Max. I agree about multitagging, but that horse has been flogged to death by now. I do however not see multitagging as a solution in the eval process - mostly because collabs already are multitagging. People do communicate you know - they are able to talk to one another during these processes, and they do throw around 'tags'. Yep, even in the metal quarters, you'll see folks using words like 'folk', 'electronic' and 'RIO' when evaluating bands, which then means that they accumulate ideas of where the given artist can fit within our site (not only within their own little niche). So tags are used on a daily basis, they're just not part of the artists pages. Again that's down to Max. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 05:35
Since I have been a member here (approximately 2 and a half years) until quite recently, there has always been a 'New Suggestions Monitor' who did this job of deciding if something was prog or not...and then choosing what seemed to be the most appropriate sub genre team to send it to for initial evaluation if he thought it was prog. This system has always worked well, but it can be a Hell of a time consuming job at times, and the previous guy Chris, who did an absolutely fantastic, thorough, and faultless check on absolutely every suggestion that got posted here, was eventually overwhelmed by the volume of work he was being faced with. Other collabs used to chip in to help him out on occasions, but far too irregularly to make the job significantly any easier for him. It would be good if two or three of the more experienced collabs on here (who were willing, and had the time available) could be teamed up again to officially carry out this pre-eval role. At the moment we are relying on the evaluation team members themselves dropping by here to pick up any suggestions that might apply to them, and - particularly if a sub gene isn't actually mentioned in the topic title - this doesn't always happen. There will always be differences of opinion on which is the most appropriate sub genre for some artists who tend to mix styles, and the passing of such artists between the evaluation teams is inevitable on occasions, but such cases usually get resolved in the fullness of time, and the best compromise solution found.
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Posted By: mogol
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 06:37
No extra teams. I was actually meaning there would be only one team (e.g. consisting of all members of current teams plus maybe some other trusted collaborators). The main thought is getting more people with different points of view into evaluating process. I think it will be easier to get enough people out of one big team to listen to a given album and evaluate it than it is now. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 07:02
So many times I posted RYM links in my threads. Yea it can be a great help. However, "use that as a filter" can not be a golden rule for me because there are very nice bands and solo artists who have physical CDs and another presence at web outside Bandcamp but they are not at RYM and AllMusic lists (e.g. Shepherds of Cassini who are alredy in PA and who got the nice reviews, as this one: http://www.muzic.net.nz/articles/reviews/48224/shepherds-of-cassini-album-review" rel="nofollow - http://www.muzic.net.nz/articles/reviews/48224/shepherds-of-cassini-album-review ) Also, it could be sometimes that a signed prog band is not at RYM & AllMusic's lists (e.g. Arktis/Air, awesome 6-piece Vienna's band what I suggested a few weeks ago for Avant Prog: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96077" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96077 )
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 11 2013 at 10:02
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Yeah sorry, I inadvertently described 'the suggestions team' earlier, which I am all for. The problem though is finding collabs who want to do this job - and moreover collabs who are well-versed in PAs different subs. The latter part of the equation is just as important as the first. I've been on the suggestions team before, and I gotta say that it very quickly got to be something of a chore to do. It stopped being fun. I obviously can't speak for others, but I know a few people who've been in the same shoes and felt similarly. Add to that, back when the team worked well, we had so many more posters suggesting acts from left and right - meaning that just the basic presence of such a team spurs people on to suggest even more bands. I'm not saying that I don't want PA to grow - but I really don't want this place to transform into a listing site like Discogs. Anyway this thread ceased to be about Shepherds of Cassini a good while ago, which is why I'm closing it. If you want to discuss these matters further, I suggest you find another place for it. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |