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Any members of famous bands on here?

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9275
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 16:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Any members of famous bands on here?
Posted By: hugo
Subject: Any members of famous bands on here?
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 19:29
Are there members of reletively well known prog bands posting on here?

-------------

Album of the week:
Being
7/30/05 Remedy Lane
7/24/05 Pawn Hearts



Replies:
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 19:36
I'm Mick Pointer!

-------------
https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: CrazyDiamond
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 19:40

I'm Nick Carter of Backstreet Boys!

Trust me!                 

___BYE___



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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 19:40

i already asked the question and it lead to a total silence! this may means that there are possibly couples of rather well known musicians posting here with us!

and no, i'm not Eddie Jobson!



-------------
[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 19:43
If you guys forgive me for Script For A Jester's Tear's drumming, can you accept me as a prog hero?  

-------------
https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: Hemispheres
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 20:46
Im The Ghost Of Steve Howe

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[IMG]http://www.wheresthatfrom.com/avatars/miguelsanchez.gif">[IMG]http://www.rockphiles.com/all_images/Act_Images/TheMothersOfInvention/mothers300.jpg">


Posted By: Publius
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 20:52

I'm Publius Diamond.



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I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 21:05

I'm Nigel Tufnel. I dig this site cuz it goes to 11.

But plz respect me privacy. Thnx mate.



-------------
"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 21:58
I'm Ian Anderson and you've been very naughty prog fans!!!! listen to Tull more!!!!

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http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!


Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 22:00
Isn't Blacksword the bassist for the Ozric Tentacles?

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Posted By: Hemispheres
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 22:05
Im The Ghost Of Steve Howe

-------------
[IMG]http://www.wheresthatfrom.com/avatars/miguelsanchez.gif">[IMG]http://www.rockphiles.com/all_images/Act_Images/TheMothersOfInvention/mothers300.jpg">


Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 22:06
Ahrighty...............I'll take that as a no

-------------

Album of the week:
Being
7/30/05 Remedy Lane
7/24/05 Pawn Hearts


Posted By: gok22us
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 22:25

I am Jon Anderson. Hello! i like Love! i hate steve howe and rick wakemen and chris squire and alan white! they're overrated. I am king of Yes!. i am also king of the world.

nah i'm not jon anderson. but if i was, i'm sure i'd love steve rick chris and alan



Posted By: Hemispheres
Date Posted: July 28 2005 at 23:07

Im the guitarist for icupgrf

www.icupgrfs.piczo.com



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[IMG]http://www.wheresthatfrom.com/avatars/miguelsanchez.gif">[IMG]http://www.rockphiles.com/all_images/Act_Images/TheMothersOfInvention/mothers300.jpg">


Posted By: Fearless
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 01:54
Originally posted by Hemispheres Hemispheres wrote:

Im the guitarist for icupgrf

www.icupgrfs.piczo.com

Hey, I thought you were Steve Howe.   Now I'm thoroughly confused.



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If you don't stand up
You don't stand a chance!


Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 02:04
once i thought dallasbrian is edgar froese...

-------------
[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>


Posted By: penguindf12
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 02:16

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

I'm Mick Pointer!

'scuse me...but....who?



Posted By: Cygnus
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 05:47
I AM I (to those who understand)  


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 05:52

Ok everyone stop the spamming!!

Actually I believe that Trent Gardner of Magellan is a member. Hes involved in that Muse wrapped music thing, and has posted in a thread about it!

 

 



-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 05:58
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Ok everyone stop the spamming!!

Actually I believe that Trent Gardner of Magellan is a member. Hes involved in that Muse wrapped music thing, and has posted in a thread about it!

 

 

I can report a sighting of him, too.

Apart from that J.D. Hughes of Gravy Train fame has posted once here and as far as I know no one brought up any evidence that it wasn't him (which, unfortunately wasn't the case with Peter Gabriel, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford )

There's also an Andy Latimer and a James LaBrie here.



-------------
"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun


Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 08:06

Christian Vander's wife, Stella, is a member of the forums, but I see she has not visited for just over a year (pity). She used here Kobaļan moniker Tauhd Zaļa. She was also a singer in MAGMA.

 



Posted By: Under
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 10:43

OK, Hugo, I know what you are going to say next.
You are going to say: "Ok, ok, I admit, I am a celebrity. I'm Hugo from Tomato Heartshapes"

And then you will be disappointed for the rest of your life, since nobody knows Tomato Heartshapes. Don't seek confirmation we like you just the way you are.

Well, I am named in a song of Dream Theater. Once these guys were stuck in the mud with their small Japanese car, I happen to pass by in my 4-wheel drive Hummer, introducing myself to them and asking if I could help. And then James Labrie shouted "Pull me, Under" and they have made a song of .....
(Never mind. This is really becoming a bad story)



Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 10:55

If there were any famous artists here, I'd suspect that they might want to keep their anonymity intact. After all how could you carry on a decent conversation in this place or gauge the reaction of your fans if every other post to you was 'I think you're a god/w**ker'? Plus you might not be as interesting or as erudite as your supporters give you credit for....

Fripp has been known to post responses to questions asked about KC on the Elephant Talk site. Maybe as time passes and the Progarchives site goes on to take over the entire internet, Presidents, Prime Ministers and even Royalty might be forced to log on.

It would bring a whole new level of meaning to the Queen fan threads.



-------------
I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill


Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:05
i am jon anderson's lost twin brother. so wonderful
to be with you this day... so wonderful ... so wonderful
... wonderous ... wonderous stories ... you know... the
internet ... stories on the internet ... reaching people
... dreams ... can be sent by e-mail ... through the
int-AH-net ... by sunrise ... always ... always ... music
... etc.      

don't moan, you asked for it, man!!!!!


Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:14
I'm David Cassidy ... I was asked to join Yes back in 1980 when Jon
Anderson left. But I had just finished that whole Partridge Family thing not
too long before and was kind of drained. So I suggested they hook up with
Trevor and Geoff. Jon got pretty pissed at me ... I haven't received a
Christmas card from him since.


Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:26
I am the third coussin of rick wakeman

-------------

Follow me on twitter @memowakeman


Posted By: Drachen Theaker
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:31
I used to be the drummer in Crazy World of Arthur Brown and High Tide, but I am now dead.

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"It's 1973, almost dinnertime and I'm 'aving 'oops!" - Gene Hunt


Posted By: Gentle Ronnie
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:34

Originally posted by memowakeman memowakeman wrote:

I am the third coussin of rick wakeman

I am the seventh wife of Rick Wakeman.

Get it?



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Posted By: daghrastubfari
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:36
I'm a member of the Village People


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:37

Originally posted by iguana iguana wrote:

i am jon anderson's lost twin brother. so wonderful
to be with you this day... so wonderful ... so wonderful
... wonderous ... wonderous stories ... you know... the
internet ... stories on the internet ... reaching people
... dreams ... can be sent by e-mail ... through the
int-AH-net ... by sunrise ... always ... always ... music
... etc.      

......you are sooooo like you're brother, Jon!



-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 11:43
Originally posted by Gentle Ronnie Gentle Ronnie wrote:

Originally posted by memowakeman memowakeman wrote:

I am the third coussin of rick wakeman

I am the seventh wife of Rick Wakeman.

Get it?

Wow!! My uncle never talk about you!!



-------------

Follow me on twitter @memowakeman


Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 12:01

I heard Tony R was the piss boy for ELP.

 

 



-------------


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"


Posted By: Hibou
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 13:24
Transend is Fred Hunter, keyboard player from Lands End. He posted a couple of times a few weeks ago then just disappeared.

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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!


Posted By: Prog-Brazil
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 14:30

I am Freddie Mercury (for beyond). Thanks for add Queen on progarchives..



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Let the sunshine in


Posted By: Prog-Brazil
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 14:33
Seriously, one day I saw a review on progarchives from César de Mercźs (from "O Terēo"). Maybe you never heard about him, but I was surprised to find that review !
Actually, it was not a review, just some corrections about their second album. Desafortunately, some admin deleted that review and I loose my chance to talk with my idol..
 


-------------
Let the sunshine in


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 14:39
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Ok everyone stop the spamming!!

Actually I believe that Trent Gardner of Magellan is a member. Hes involved in that Muse wrapped music thing, and has posted in a thread about it!

Trent is a very talented, very cool, very prolific guy.

He used to be a cop! Quite a career change.



-------------
"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 14:41

Originally posted by Cinema Cinema wrote:

I'm David Cassidy ... I was asked to join Yes back in 1980 when Jon
Anderson left. But I had just finished that whole Partridge Family thing not
too long before and was kind of drained. So I suggested they hook up with
Trevor and Geoff. Jon got pretty pissed at me ... I haven't received a
Christmas card from him since.

Actually, not so funny, Cassidy (and his wife, I think) co-wrote a song with Asia on their Then and Now album (which included Downes).

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.



-------------
"Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin


Posted By: Bowzo
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 15:51

Heh, you people are all silly!

But in actuality, I'm John Bonham, reincarnated into a prog drummer for his band, Alice. We are jamming right now! Bye.



Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 16:51

What You haven't heard of Gdub and the Dubbets. The Dubbets, of course being our renowned lesbian duo...BaldFred and BaldJohn.

They can OOOOh and Aaaah with the best of em.



Posted By: Laurent
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 17:09

I'm Roger Waters. I'm a genuis and you must all bow down to my greatness. Or I'll spit on you!.

David Gilmour is just a talentless fat hack.



-------------



Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 17:10
Originally posted by kirklott kirklott wrote:

Originally posted by Cinema Cinema wrote:

I'm David Cassidy ... I was asked to
join Yes back in 1980 when Jon Anderson left. But I had just finished that
whole Partridge Family thing not too long before and was kind of drained. So
I suggested they hook up with Trevor and Geoff. Jon got pretty pissed at me
... I haven't received a Christmas card from him since.


Actually, not so funny, Cassidy (and his wife, I think) co-wrote a song with
Asia on their Then and Now album (which included Downes).


Oh, how the mighty have fallen.



I heard something like that some time ago ... it's what gave me the idea of
the David Cassidy story.


Posted By: transend
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 17:22
I would not describe them as famous...more along the lines of 'currently residing in the where are they now file'...


Posted By: Inferno
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 18:47
On a more serious note...I'm the new keyboard player of Hamadryad....Not famous I know but still in the archive and yet to be on the new site of Hamadryad when it will (One day...) be updated


Posted By: AcostaFulano
Date Posted: July 29 2005 at 22:31

Hi, my name is John Myung. Maybe you've heard of me. Im the bassist of Dream Theater.

I don't speak much because i'm kind of shy, but forums like this one let me show my real personality. I hope you like our new cd "octavarium".

There will be a new album on 2006 so keep an eye on our website: http://www.dreamtheater.net - www.dreamtheater.net

I can't tell you the new album's name because mike says it's simply too awesome, and because of that the new album's name will be revealed the day the album reaches stores.

By the way, for you who didn't know, my middle name is "Ro".. yeah I spelled it right.

Good bye, my friends.



Posted By: Shack Man
Date Posted: July 30 2005 at 10:13
OH MY GOD!!!! I just realized I have to famous..RIGHT now. I win


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: July 31 2005 at 23:05
I'm the singer of the swedish band "The Roots of Echo", which was part of the music-scene in Sweden in the 90's


Posted By: AfanSpur
Date Posted: August 01 2005 at 01:45
I am Glenn hoddle of the  late 70's early 80's band The Tottenham Hotspur. A free moving soloist i jammed regurlarly with the likes of Osvaldo Ardilles. The group was Hoddle Lead guitar, Ardilles, Rhythym Guitar,Ricky Villa Keyboards, Steve Archibald Drums,Garth Crooks percussion and Graham Roberts Vocals. I then went pop and had a short career in the late 80's where i scored a hit in France with Diamond lights a duet with Chrissy waddle in a band called Cheezy peez. Bueno Estente!

-------------
There stands Olias to outward to build a ship
Holding within all we hope to retain
The frame will be so built to challenge the universe
Clasped with the skins of the fish of the plain



Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: August 01 2005 at 06:04
Hopefully there's nobody good progmusician getting hooked to this site. I wish they would use their time doing more good muzak!


Posted By: Publius
Date Posted: August 01 2005 at 06:23

Originally posted by AfanSpur AfanSpur wrote:

I am Glenn hoddle of the  late 70's early 80's band The Tottenham Hotspur. A free moving soloist i jammed regurlarly with the likes of Osvaldo Ardilles. The group was Hoddle Lead guitar, Ardilles, Rhythym Guitar,Ricky Villa Keyboards, Steve Archibald Drums,Garth Crooks percussion and Graham Roberts Vocals. I then went pop and had a short career in the late 80's where i scored a hit in France with Diamond lights a duet with Chrissy waddle in a band called Cheezy peez. Bueno Estente!

Wow, prog in The Fast Show, must have missed that



-------------
I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8


Posted By: Viajero Astral
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 21:07
Well, this is a good question...


But now, they are famous people right now? 






...?


(some new members we used the search button)


-------------


Posted By: andYouandI45
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 21:18
Hey, shut up everyone.


Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 21:24
Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

What You haven't heard of Gdub and the Dubbets. The Dubbets, of course being our renowned lesbian duo...BaldFred and BaldJohn.

They can OOOOh and Aaaah with the best of em.

What are you talking about?

Isn't it BaldJean and BaldFreide? Or something??



Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 21:42
Hey... I guess I should let my little secret out and this is a good place for it....my band wasn't exactly prog but our album covers were rather famous...or infamous depending on your disposition...

I played bass and am the guy on the far left....




-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 04:36
     I was the keyboardist of a famous prog band, I won't say which, but we
got much better after the singer left, he was always coming out in bloody
silly costumes where he couldn't even get the microphone up to his
bloody mouth to sing, I mean Christ, that's his bloody job isn't it, and
then the costume changes taking forever while we had to improvise till he
got back, the abstruse lyrics and stories that nobody comprehends, it was
just too much really. Things were alright after that for awhile, the albums
started to move finally, but the guitarist, you know we had to give him
something to do, although we didn't really need him, it was keyboard
driven music, but we always had to give him parts to do his bloody
noodling, and it was too much really, so finally he left, and then we
were...oops, almost gave it away...then we could finally get serious, get
down to essentials, you know, songs about dancing and things that really
matter to people, then Michelob started sponsoring our tours, that was
really exciting, except the giant bottle behind the stage didn't really go
well with the lasar light show, but then things REALLY got moving. Now
we'll never have to play a bloody note again, thank God.


Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 05:03
There was once Jan Erik from ANEKDOTEN,just search the forum for that theme(or his name).
Nice jokes,guys, to you all,but seriously I'd like to know if there are any musicians except Trent Gardner and Jan Erik    


Posted By: proger
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 11:56
Ido Ben-Zvi
played in the band of "Kefar-Menachem", israel

-------------
...live for tomorrow...


Posted By: walrus333
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 14:40

Hi I am Mike Oldfield.

My hobbies include reading, watching movies and thinking of yet another version of Tubular Bells I can record.



-------------
If anyone knows where I can get a copy of some Flute and Voice (Indo-Prog/Raga Rock) albums please PM me! Many thanks!


Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 18:17
I'm Phil Collins!

*dodges garbage pale lids*



-------------


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 19:39

Originally posted by Cygnus X-2 Cygnus X-2 wrote:

Isn't Blacksword the bassist for the Ozric Tentacles?

No, that will be cert1fied

 



-------------
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: stan the man
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 19:52
Originally posted by Laurent Laurent wrote:

I'm Roger Waters. I'm a genuis and you must all bow down to my greatness. Or I'll spit on you!.

David Gilmour is just a talentless fat hack.

im not that fat.  i take great offense to that.

look at my sig you could see me. 



-------------
true as a lobster in a pteredaktyl's underpants.




Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 20:14

Originally posted by Cygnus Cygnus wrote:

I AM I (to those who understand)  

My personal fave! \m/ \m/

("Promised Land"... I mean).



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 03 2006 at 20:24
Originally posted by kirklott kirklott wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Ok everyone stop the spamming!!

Actually I believe that Trent Gardner of Magellan is a member. Hes involved in that Muse wrapped music thing, and has posted in a thread about it!

Trent is a very talented, very cool, very prolific guy.

He used to be a cop! Quite a career change.

wow I wonder if it is true , I know that Trent has a passion for all things progressive and I wouldn`t be surprised if he is a member . Trent Gardner is one of my most favorite prog artists (In case you are watching Trent)  Prog on !


Posted By: Toob-Wurm
Date Posted: March 04 2006 at 23:17

I'm Maynard J. Keenan, and you all suck!!!!

 



-------------


Posted By: Bob Greece
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 03:20

A prog musician has done a review of his own album:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=72426 - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=72426

I wonder if he'll be joining the forum soon?



-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/BobGreece/?chartstyle=basicrt10">



Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 05:12
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Cygnus X-2 Cygnus X-2 wrote:

Isn't Blacksword the bassist for the Ozric Tentacles?

No, that will be cert1fied

 

I guess he is Mark Kelly, the keyboard player of Marillion.


Posted By: erlenst
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 05:40
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=5097


Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 07:17
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

Christian Vander's wife, Stella, is a member of the forums, but I see she has not visited for just over a year (pity). She used here Kobaļan moniker Tauhd Zaļa. She was also a singer in MAGMA.


 



That's who Tauhd was... she is greatly missed (ah... memories)

-------------

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012


Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:48

Originally posted by RoyalJelly RoyalJelly wrote:

     I was the keyboardist of a famous prog band, I won't say which, but we
got much better after the singer left, he was always coming out in bloody
silly costumes where he couldn't even get the microphone up to his
bloody mouth to sing, I mean Christ, that's his bloody job isn't it, and
then the costume changes taking forever while we had to improvise till he
got back, the abstruse lyrics and stories that nobody comprehends, it was
just too much really. Things were alright after that for awhile, the albums
started to move finally, but the guitarist, you know we had to give him
something to do, although we didn't really need him, it was keyboard
driven music, but we always had to give him parts to do his bloody
noodling, and it was too much really, so finally he left, and then we
were...oops, almost gave it away...then we could finally get serious, get
down to essentials, you know, songs about dancing and things that really
matter to people, then Michelob started sponsoring our tours, that was
really exciting, except the giant bottle behind the stage didn't really go
well with the lasar light show, but then things REALLY got moving. Now
we'll never have to play a bloody note again, thank God.

Dammit, Tony, I hate it when you get drunk.  I swear, I can't take you anywhere!



-------------
"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain


Posted By: anael
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 15:51
Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

I'm Phil Collins!


Hey This guy is fooling everyone, I'm Phil Collins!



-------------


Posted By: Ounamahl
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:03
Originally posted by anael anael wrote:

Originally posted by Hierophant Hierophant wrote:

I'm Phil Collins!


Hey This guy is fooling everyone, I'm Phil Collins!



Phil Collins posting to progarchives... weelll


-------------
This is an electrified fairytale


Posted By: Zweck
Date Posted: March 21 2006 at 16:14

They lie! I'm the REAL Phill Collins!

I'm also the singer\guitarist\Guy with the eighties synthesizer in the band possibly known as Pantheon Of Designer Rock'n Roll, though a name not stolen from a Solefald-tune might be preferred, time will tell.




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