Why didn't Les Pauls have tremolo bar?
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Topic: Why didn't Les Pauls have tremolo bar?
Posted By: Gerinski
Subject: Why didn't Les Pauls have tremolo bar?
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 09:51
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When thinking about 70's classic electric guitars there are 2 clear protagonists, the Fender Strat and the Gibson Les Paul. Each one had its own personality, both sound-wise and looks-wise. But one thing that always intrigued me, in terms of playing versatility, the Strat had a tremolo bar while the original genuine Les Paul didn't. Many Les Paul players fitted tremolo bar bridges in their guitars (i.e. Steve Hackett) but the question remains, why did not Gibson fit a tremolo bar as standard in the Les Pauls? The Les Paul was an amazing guitar, in some respects possibly better sounding than the Start, but being able to do only upwards pitch-bends but no downwards pitch-bends seems a stupid limitation for such a great guitar. Anyone can throw some light on this question?
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Replies:
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:22
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Two different guitars. I guess really the Gibson Les Paul should be compared to the Telecaster, the Strat with the Gibson SG.
I've always assumed (yeah, I know, a bad habit) that it was to do with the sound, and more specifically the fabled LP sustain - a rigid bridge coupled with the humbucker pickups and the glued on neck results in a fuller sound with more sustain than the single pickups, tremolo bridge and bolt-on neck of the Strat.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:33
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You could always get a Custom Les Paul with a tremelo arm. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:37
The SG didn't have a tremolo bar bridge either.
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Dean wrote:Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:38
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^The ones I have seen do. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:45
I know, the question is how come Std Les Pauls did not include tremolo when it was a clearly desirable playing effect at the time (and still now of course). Did Gibson miss the importance of this effect for guitar players?
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:46
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^^ SG trems are model dependant ------------- What? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:47
Is this in answer to the SG whammy bar? I see it was.
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:50
Do a Google Images search on "Gibson SG" and tell me how many you see with a tremolo bar. You will indeed see a very few but the Std SG's did not have it.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:51
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OK ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:54
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I get both. Without in the majority, but plenty with too. I suppose I never really noticed the "withouts" before as much ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:57
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SGs are simply less common than LPs, just as Teles are less common than Strats. You can get Teles with and without trems too. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 11:01
------------- What? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 11:03
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The Les Paul is incredibly popular without anyway. It is obviously not such a desired thing anyway. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 15:39
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Unless I missed something here it was because of the design of the body.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: January 20 2013 at 20:31
Yeah, installation is trickier on guitars with a carved top versus a flat top. Lots of Floyd Rose users prefer the tremolo flush with the bridge. This saves the tuning of the other five strings if a string breaks. This is not an option on the Les Paul for some physical design reason. If memory serves me, it's because the strings do not come in from the back through the body of the guitar as they do on Strats and Strat-like guitars. They come from the front on a Les Paul through the bridge. To have it flush, you actually have to gauge a hole in the body for the tremolo to pivot downward. I've seen one customized like this at a second hand shop, very distressing. I could only hope it was an imitation Les Paul. A Floyd Rose on a Les Paul needs to be elevated or "floating". You can get the elevated or "floating" installation of a Floyd Rose on a Les Paul Classic Custom, the kind Steve Hackett has. I wanted one of these but it's a little shy of twice as much as the Les Paul Classic Plus that I now sleep with. |
Posted By: bonestorm
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 19:00
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My first guitar was an Ibanez that had a floyd-rose. It was a complete nuisance to keep in tune. When I upgraded to a Les Paul I've never missed it, but I guess it's not my playing style to use it much anyway.
------------- Hibernal http://hibernal.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://hibernal.bandcamp.com "This is a stunning work of art" - Muzik Reviews "A precious gem" - Dante's Prog |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 20:48
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Because trems are garbage bridges. Kills sustain, intonation & tuning integrity, especially in the 1950s |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 22:26
Good answer! The Les Paul was originally intended as an upscale guitar, and Les himself saw it more for jazz-clubs, dance bands etc. (especially the "Black Beauty" Les Paul Custom). One of the tonal secrets to the Les Paul, and the source of its amazing sustain, is its construction and integrity of design...the carved top is a cap of flame maple glued onto a solid mahogany body...this cap is very hard and allows the energy from the vibrating strings to propagate from nut to bridge, providing a nice ringing sustain. Players who have used this to maximum advantage include Fripp and Hackett. Although certain Gibson guitar designs (SG, Flying V) have used the Gibson "vibrola," I don't think they were ever used on the Les Paul. The Vibrola isn't bad, but tuning is a problem & I only know a few who used it extensively (Andy Powell of Wisbhone Ash comes to mind). A few players installed Bigsby vibratos on their LPs, but those are notorious sustain killers! http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=646376" rel="nofollow - http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=646376 Fripp is an interesting character....although he used a non-trem Les Paul Custom through much of the formative years of King Crimson, he adopted the Roland synth-guitar system for the "Discipline" era, and his guitar had a factory trem (I've spoken to him about it). I think Adrian Belew, who was a "Twang-Bar King," had an influence on Bob!! Later on (Thrak period), Bob had the Fernandes company in Japan build him a Les Paul Custom copy that incorporated advanced synth pickups, Fernandes sustainer, and built-in trem!! His 1953 LP Custom was far too valuable to risk traveling with, and the new Fernandes guitar allowed him to trigger synth patches such as Mellotron samples....amazing to watch!! This guitar is the secret weapon behind his "Soundscapes" techniques: http://fernandesguitars.com/the-news/547-robert-fripp-soundscapes-in-new-york-city.html" rel="nofollow - http://fernandesguitars.com/the-news/547-robert-fripp-soundscapes-in-new-york-city.html Sorry for the dissertation! I own both trem-equipped guitars (Charvel Model 6) and non-trem guitars (Les Paul etc.). At most, I use the trem to impart a slight "wiggle" or shimmer to notes, particularly during solos. I avoid the hair-metal "dive bomb" sound effect completely, as I don't think it is a very dignified/musical tone! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 22:33
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 10 2013 at 02:40
Dissertations are welcome! Yes tremolo systems were often a tuning nightmare in the past, thankfully they improved a lot and the Floyd Rose in my Carvin (with locks in the nut) is pretty stable. I do not use it extensively nor extremely but I find it a nice and useful resource to have for downwards bends.
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