Do you support the Zeitgeist Movement?
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Topic: Do you support the Zeitgeist Movement?
Posted By: WormHole
Subject: Do you support the Zeitgeist Movement?
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:40
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I just started to study Zeitgeist ideology and its the best,im just wondering if there are any fans of zeitgeist here? Jacque Fesco ♥ http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/" rel="nofollow -
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Replies:
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:54
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I had to look this up, as I know what the term Zeitgeist means, but had not heard of the movement. From Wikipedia: "Zeitgeist proposes that humanity, essentially, abolish capitalism, the nation-state and parliamentary bodies, and adopt a moneyless global socioeconomic system in which all resources would be equitably, commonly and sustainably shared." So to answer your question: hell no. ------------- 
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:57
This sounds like some people trying to feel super important like they can fix all the worlds problems. This to me, is a dangerous way of thinking and it can lead to narcissism, unwarranted confidence and feelings of significance.
I mean, I understand wanting to change the world for the better. I think we all want this place to suck less. But, naming your movement the same name as that hyped up conspiracy crazy movie is pretty dumb. I also feel like it was written by some teenager that is trying to sound really smart.
For instance this part:
Similarly, the system also requires problems/constant consumer interest in order to work. The more people who have cancer or cars that breakdown, the better the economy due to the servicing of those problems. Needless to say, this also generates an inherent disregard for human well being and the environment. Sustainability, efficiency and preservation are the enemies of this model. The way he's writing is driving me crazy.
Or this sh*t:
TZM takes a very different view. Rather than take each problem on a per case bases and work to solve that problem within the confines of the custom accepted system - a system that might, in fact, be creating the problem itself - TZM steps back to consider the inherent logic of the issues themselves and how they relates to the emerging Scientific Benchmark(with respect the The Scientific Method) - absent respect for social tradition and custom. In the case of 1 Billion people starving, the solution does not rest with the need for more donations, more governmental subsides or even legislation to limit possible causal abuse and exploitation of such regions as those are not direct solution since they do not relate to the mechanics of survival. Rather they relate and intermediate with current social customs. The real issue and hence logic is Technical - not political or financial. Starvation is a technical problem where clean, life supporting resources are not made available to a certain region for some reason. The question is then asked: Is there an empirical environmental restriction which is making those resources unavailable? The answer today is a clear no. It is well noted by the W.H.O. and others that there is plenty of food being produced in the world to feed everyone and we also have clear technical means to also desalinate and clean polluted water to make it safe for drinking. This can be dome on an industrial scale. This is what they are saying is the SOLUTION section. He does not offer real solutions. He analyzes the worlds problems and defines those problems and tries to say what he thinks the reasons for those problems are but their claim that our model is not sustainable would be fine and dandy if they would actually tell me about a real solution.
They want this kind of crazy conceptual reform that itself is even less sustainable. BLEHBLEHBLEH we need to use scientific method to bleh bleh bleh all the worlds problems. REALLY? Telling some stupid hippie you're using scientific method to fix problems might impress them, but it DOESNT say a damn thing about anything to me. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
WormHole wrote:Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:58
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I tend to dislike utopian fantasies that I believe would lead to strife, famine, and technological stagnation.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:58
Would be cool, but have you thought about what would come after that  ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 09:59
The real issue would be the complete economic ignorance of that statement. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:02
I'm gonna f**king shoot my brains out. I agree with like a few things said on that site but they way they were said and their context and how everything is put is silly. I don't think these guys actually know much about the world. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:03
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And by "a few things on the site" I mean basically the parts where he said everything sucks. His reasons slash EVERYTHING else is wrong and silly. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:03
Indeed. It's known as the Broken Window Fallacy, and assumes (wrongly) that in the absence of those problems the resources would not be employed in other ways. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:05
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Utter rubbish.
Children trying to rule the world. ------------- 
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Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:10
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I'm getting pissed because I can't believe people out there think like this. These people think they're gonna change the world ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:17
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In another active thread at the moment, some people could very well be thinking the same about you and your beliefs. It's probably best to go about thinking the people mean well, see a problem with the world, and want to better it for everyone. There's no reason to get angry at people for that really. If you don't want them to think that way, then start engaging them in debate and refuting the points that their movement makes. Anger is best reserved for people's actions if you want to remain sane and somewhat likable. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:25
Yea. You make a good point. Ha. I should try to be more likeable and reasonable.
I think you understand my frustrations with the whole thing, but you have a much better way of going about it. Plus, those people would never respect me for being angry about their beliefs. It's the same as someone converting someone to a religion by saying YOU'RE WRONG SCREW YOU MY GOD IS BETTER. I shall take this advice for real. I'll keep all my anger and negativity in the Shred. :-D
I seriously feel shamed and I apologize for the anger. I'm kind of an embarassment in general. Ha ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:30
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People who want to change the world by altering absolutely everything of how it works are the most dangerous. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:33
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People who want to change the world by building armies and dropping bombs are worse I think.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:36
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The "no money" thing always really confuses me. Does everyone just take as much as they want and we assume no scarcity? Or does some government agency ration out equal amounts of goods to people? What if I don't want one of my rationed goods (like an iPhone.) Can someone else then have two, or would that make things too unequal? If yes, then who gets it? Can I trade it for something I want, and then aren't we right back to money again? It just doesn't seem very well thought out to me.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 10:39
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 11:36
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We're all fans of some zeitgeist, but I guess that's not what the OP had in mind. My answer is no. First and foremost, for the ridiculously dumb and generic name. I don't mind a community which is self-resourceful and "connected" with nature, but imposing such a political agenda on community as a whole is foolish. Also, it's just a variant of anarchism, which I utterly despise. ------------- |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 11:39
I'm starting to feel bad for the OP.  He started out so optimistic and eager to share. I doubt he expected to encounter such a uniformly strong negative response.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 11:47
True dat ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 11:53
Yea I'm sorry OP. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:09
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I'm the first one wishing that human society would change for better but all utopian attempts so far have failed. Look at Christiania in Copenhagen, originally a self-governed commune of freedom and equality which today is just a tourist attraction because cannabis is openly sold.
Humans themselves need to change first and while that is not impossible (our values have surely changed throughout history) it's not gonna happen in a few decades.
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:16
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It sounds like it'd be nice. But there's absolutly no way that will ever happen. So, no. ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:24
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^ That statement makes no sense. My personal opinion on this matter is that the US is already capable of having everyone above the poverty line and a methodology like this would eliminate the need for innovation which is the most poisonous thing that could happen to a country. People just need to at least try to make money, they can't simply give up and want the government to give it to them. That's the beautiful thing about the country, as much as some malign it for being unfair, everyone has the same shot at becoming successful it just takes innovation and hard work. So no, I think this movement would suck to the extreme. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:25
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From what I've seen the ZG movement appears to border on both the inane, and the vaguely sinister.
I sat through one their Youtube 'films' about a year ago, and I wasn't sure if I was watching harmless new age fluff, or a promo film for the 'New World Order' Either way, count me out. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:28
This is quite easy. Simply lower the poverty line, which is utterly arbitrary. The international definition of poverty is income of $1 a day or less. Since you can find that much lying on the street in any U.S. city, I think we have met that goal. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:29
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I support the bowel movement.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:44
http://www.theonion.com/articles/eight-million-americans-rescued-from-poverty-with,3951/" rel="nofollow - http://www.theonion.com/articles/eight-million-americans-rescued-from-poverty-with,3951/ http://www.theonion.com/articles/poverty-rate-hits-17year-high,26086/" rel="nofollow - http://www.theonion.com/articles/poverty-rate-hits-17year-high,26086/ ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 14:57
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If tin-foil hats are part of the uniform for the Zeitgeist Movement then I may consider it - from what I've see it makes David Ike look positively rational. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 15:11
Love ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 15:12
Well I wasn't saying everyone is, I'm saying it's possible everyone can meet that goal.  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 15:36
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I tend to disagree with many of the people here on politics (the main reason why I tend to keep out of such threads) but I think most of us here are in agreement that the ZGM is a complete load of fantastical rubbish.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 16:05
Sadly, the bowel disagrees  -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:10
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That awkward moment when a new thread gets eviscerated by 5 libertarians. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:14
Happens too often ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:23
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Just saw this thread. lolno. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:23
This and this |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:23
n I thought I was quite kind, considering the ridiculousness of the movement in queston. -------------
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Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:26
| Absolutely not. If Zeitgeist got what they wanted though, the month or so that ensued would make for some great post-apocalyptic fiction a millenium later once civilization reformed. |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 17:30
Eh, this thread could have been much worse, I know. I guess we can all just agree that it's a terrible idea. I'll just take my medal of bravery and be on my way. ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 18:38
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Eh cant even bring myself to think about it. I'd rather support the movement of colonizing Jupiter It's only a bit less unrealistic than Zeitgeist and sounds much more fun. Also what's in a name? From the brief info I've seen sounds like "ideal/true" communism basically? I mean, seems like original Marxism in its core beliefs. Yawn, I want some new radical theory! |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 19:44
How about we swear fealty to the ants, en masse, and let them direct our every action from now on? They seem to have their act together. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 20:00
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^I would actually choose bees above ants. They are cuter. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 25 2012 at 20:21
Bees can be kind of cool. They make honey after all. Fire ants are evil. Fortunately http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fio9.com%2F5252549%2Fheadless-fire-ant-zombies-are-your-friends&ei=2ZsQUL7PEoG69QTVm4HQCw&usg=AFQjCNFa8HkRtrb0OIaA95P1fPxRoimy0w&sig2=CaNzyjpoa6BxAvyF86HRvA" rel="nofollow - Headless Fire Ant Zombies Are Your Friends------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: July 27 2012 at 08:55
Why not - exactly the same content from what I can see 
Sorry OP, but seriously? ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: WormHole
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 09:07
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wikipedia isnt a really got source you know. You must always check their official site. ------------- 
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 09:10
I'm not going to, but if you'd like to explain what was inaccurate about the wikipedia quote I posted, I will listen. -------------
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Posted By: WormHole
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 09:13
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mah no worries,its fun to see what others think about this,also its completely useless to even talk about this,human race is going to kill it self anyway,if not the sun will. So we are going to die anyway,no mater what.
i always love happy endings. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 09:35
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Official nonsense is still nonsense. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 10:37
The official site states exactly what the Wiki does. The same authors probably wrote both documents. And don't worry, I don't think the Sun will be killing you personally. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: WormHole
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 12:20
yea,but it's worthless to spent your time with politics,if you must vote just vote the party that will make the smallest harm to the system. Or better yet just stay at home drinking a beer and watching tv. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 12:39
I can get behind this: ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 12:42
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Is it any wonder that Devin Townsend's song about saving the world is called "The Mighty Masturbator?"
Although Libertarianism is just trying to save the world from a different angle. Also ignores major facts about reality. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 15:43
Philosophy or political ideology can't be so absolute and unyielding that it ignores reality or practicality. I haven't heard from any of young libertarians that respect that. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 15:45
Because what you old folks call "major facts of reality," we call "stuff compromise f**ked up." ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 15:53
Good point. Wisdom does often come from experience. Experience is no guarantee but it helps. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 15:55
| I only support the Poltergeist movement. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 16:00
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I had never heard of this movement before today either. It actually sounds like something I would support, however it is also completely unworkable. We are still too aggressive, selfish, greedy, hateful, competitive and paranoid a species to ever live in the kind of harmony that this movement suggests. I would like to say we're getting to the point where we could enjoy such a life, but after 3+ billion years of evolution, we haven't really evolved that much beyond the single- celled organisms that began life on this planet, where our survival is based on out-competing others for resources. My hopes are slim that humanity will ever rise above its origins to actually deserve a place in the universe. Oh dear, my misanthropy is showing through. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 16:17
Not your misanthropy- just your blind collectivism.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 16:19
| I thought we were already in the universe |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: July 28 2012 at 16:28
Just because we're here doesn't mean we deserve to be. And yes, Robert, I am a collectivist and think that we should evolve to the point where cooperation, not competition, is how our species survives and grows. Sadly, that also makes me an idealist, because that is certainly not where reality seems to be heading. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |