Reasons why Phish are a true prog band
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Topic: Reasons why Phish are a true prog band
Posted By: darkshade
Subject: Reasons why Phish are a true prog band
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 18:19
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Here's examples of why Phish are a true prog band. Listen to these songs and tell me they're not proggy. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Replies:
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 20:25
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Did anyone listen? Does anybody have any opinions?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 20:28
It's not proggy  ------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle! - Napoléon Bonaparte |
darkshade wrote:Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 20:39
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Your username leaves me feeling like you didn't actually listen to the songs...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 21:03
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I got into Phish in the first place because of their prog appeal (even more pronounced in their early days). This was before the acquired the "jam band" tag, which unfortunately conjures images (to some people) of stoned hippies in parking lots rather than the actual music at hand. But this group composed (yes, composed) some very complex epics and drew from many different musical traditions. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: July 08 2012 at 05:53
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Yes, I listened. I've listened to these and other Phish material, as a cousin of mine has tried for years to get me into them. While these songs would be considered prog, they just don't have the appeal to me. The band play well, but I don't care for the vocals and the songs just don't do anything for me. For me, not speaking for any one else, it's prog, but boring prog.
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Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: July 08 2012 at 09:35
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I listenes to them but I was willing to joke. But seriously they are proggy but I don't think they are real prog. They fit as prog related. ------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle! - Napoléon Bonaparte |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: July 08 2012 at 13:50
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I can't hear through the patchouli and nitrous.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: wjohnd
Date Posted: July 08 2012 at 14:19
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The sound like an eclectic prog band to me. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 08 2012 at 16:20
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I neither support no oppose their inclusion.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: bb1319
Date Posted: July 09 2012 at 20:49
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I would consider Phish to be prog. They are like Umphrey's McGee to me. Besides, I really like them either way, just like I really like the Grateful Dead, regardless of their genre. ------------- "I'd say that what we hear is the quality of our listening." -Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: July 11 2012 at 06:02
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I don't know this band and I've listened. The examples above sound proggy to me. But I need to listen to full albums to decide, if their composition style as a whole is proggy, and if these examples are not only exceptions.
------------- http://theprogressiveweb.blogspot.de" rel="nofollow - Visit me in Second Life to talk about music. |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 11 2012 at 09:39
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Its prog allright! ------------- 
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 11 2012 at 11:12
I would suggest their album "Lawn Boy". or "Junta" ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: somecallmetim
Date Posted: August 05 2012 at 10:57
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Junta would be by fat the most prog album they have. Otherwise, you can check out "time turns elastic", one of the new prog type songs. Youll like it. http://youtu.be/MVOkt2Q8vyk" rel="nofollow - http://youtu.be/MVOkt2Q8vyk
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Posted By: Meta
Date Posted: August 25 2012 at 03:50
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I really dig Phish. I could see a case being made for them being prog-ish, but not a full on prog band. ------------- http://www.heavymeta.net" rel="nofollow - Meta's Official Website |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: August 27 2012 at 12:38
| "Junta" is definitely prog rock. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: August 27 2012 at 12:41
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"Junta" doesn't even really "jam" that much, if that's what keeps people from calling it prog. The lion's share of Junta is very highly composed, even the long tracks.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 27 2012 at 13:35
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they don't really jam much at all on their studio albums, especially the first 4-5 albums which are their most prog albums.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 28 2012 at 11:28
They're a great band & well known for the huge number of live albums available, but I much prefer the studio ones (especially Junta & Rift); to me personally, they are a prog band without doubt, but I do find their live jams, just a tad, well... boring  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: nichobert
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 09:56
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Yea it's crazy to me that someone could hear a song like Reba with it's intensely complex middle section with multiple key, tempo and mood changes and not immediately go "ok, this band is prog" On top of that, McGrupp, Forbins, Mockingbird, David Bowie, Divided Sky, My Friend My Friend, Fluffhead, Time Turns Elastic, You Emjoy Myself just to name a few where the prog is overwhelming. There's dozens more that might just have a 30 second portion that breaks into electric/symphonic prog territory. Then dozens of songs that unfurl into space rock territory.. The weird thing is this idea that like maybe they're proggy because they have some songs like that, but not every song is like that. I'd say that a slight majority of bands on here have as many "normal" songs as "proggy" ones. Phish's main influences have always felt like Zappa, Genesis and The Talking Heads circa Remain In Light to me.. The grateful Dead comparison does t really hold up unless you're just comparing the people who like them or you're unaware of any other rock bands who improvise. I'm assuming that people here don't fall into the latter category. Not that complexity is a prerequisite for greatness, because it absolutely isn't, but Junta and Lawn Boy have more complex change on a dime arrangements than the entire Pink Floyd catalog and I don't see anyone doubting their prog bonafides. Sometimes I wonder if the issue is that Phish is just super goofy and seems to be taking the piss out of prog along with every other genre they play. After Zappa nobody else really took up that mantle of playing incredibly accomplished music without taking it seriously whatsoever. Phish is - to me anyway- like a Cornier Zappa. Also, wasn't it phish who inducted Genesis to the Rock Hall Of Fame by playing Watcher In The Skies? Not that this means anything, but it's telling. |
Posted By: nichobert
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 10:56
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Also while I'm here, I'd like to thank ProgArchives for helping me find so many crazy bands! I made a decision to plunge head first into progressive rock after listening to some gorgeous tinkling Phish jam (like a Simple/Reba/Hood/Slave/Roggae style beauty jam) and realiZing I had no concept of any other bands that sounded that way. I've spent the last year or so immersing myself in bands that I've found here, on RateYourMusic (shout out to AshraTom! I'm on board with you on everything but the Midwest America/Ontario stuff lol) - especially one guys lists where he basically lists every progressive band in every country. Oh, and the God, Pierro Scaruffi. I'm mainly into the more coherent/melodic Zeuhl stuff, along with some of the more psychedelically romantic sounding Italian and South American bands, loving some of these great German bands I never heard despite being really into the more motorik krautrock stuff forever, Quebec had a spectacular scene in the 70s with their folky weirdness..France is my favorite though. So many amazing bands. No slight to the "Canterbury scene" who probably produced my favorite bands outside of King Crimson. Avant Prog can go either way for me, kinda like free jazz I like it immensely when it's either more spacey or more rhythmic and isn't too screechy (and it's always been a shame to me that the free jazz tended so strongly towards expressing itself in screechy wailing, but I guess that's a product of its times)- finding prog rock that reminds me of the restrained nature of post rock (but 20 years earlier!) makes my day. I had generally avoided anything past the early 80s because I feel like the main influences became Rush ( who I dig) and Porcupine Tree (who I decidedly do not) along with a lot of metal, bombast and technical skill for the sake of technical skill.. But lately ive been crazy impressed with the newer avant prog and Zeuhl stuff I'm finding. Not everything turned into Marillon style fluff or endless finger tapping nonsense and macho posturing! Score! So in essence, I never really found anything that sounded like a clear antecedent to a Harry Hood jam, but I do have a two terabyte hard drive filled up (for research purposes only!) with tons of prog, psych, jazz , avant garde and modern/minimal classical, and the vast majority of it all is stuff I hadn't heard of two years ago. My plan as it sits now, is to make a series of a few dozen mixes that start with a Phish song, then fade out of the improvisational portion and into a succession of arranged snippets of obscure music..and then drop these on my Phish fan friends like a bomb. Most of these kids have great taste in music but a massive blind spot where prog should be, and it's silly that they should like so much highly inventive music but not know who Gentle Giant or Hatfield And The North are! They'll know soon enough once I blow their minds! |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: March 20 2015 at 08:50
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Phish is probably my second favorite band of all time, and because I've listened to them so much I must agree that prog is potent from Junta to Farmhouse. Although they haven't been super progressive like other neo prog bands from that time I do think that they have it especially on my favorite track of theirs. (obviously The Divided Sky). Also to some extent their bouncing back and forth is what may be the true side of raw progressive music. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: March 24 2015 at 08:43
| Great. Now you guys have me wanting to check out Phish. I thought they were just a Grateful Dead stoner wannabe band? |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 24 2015 at 08:43
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Junta is definitely worth checking out. I was never too enamored of their other albums for some reason. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 24 2015 at 09:55
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They're s.h.i.t.e and burn kittens live on stage ------------- 
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Posted By: 'PiphanyRambler
Date Posted: March 24 2015 at 13:38
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I love Phish, but to call them prog is misleading, I think. Junta is actually prog and a very good album, Lawn Boy has some very good compositions (like Reba), but a lot of jamming also. Rift is a nice concept album (nothing outstanding but with a couple of really strong tunes). The rest of their production is not what I'd recommend to a prog fan, but nonetheless A Pciture of Nectar is very good and Time Turns Elastic, from their Joy album, is one of their most ambitious pieces since the '90s. However, it's not important whether Phish are prog or not. I'd recommend their Live Phish series, they're so good in the live setting (especially, check Vol. 2, 3, 4, 6, 15, 18 and 20). |
Posted By: nichobert
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 10:58
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I guess I'm just interested in how prog a band has to be in ordered to be considered progressive... lol They've probably got 40-50 songs that feature segments that are undeniably progressive rock in nature. Then maybe 100 others that are just plain weird. I also don't really quite get why improv would disqualify them in some way. A lot of really well regarded classic progressive bands featured improvisation in varying degrees. Like Lawn Boy has Reba which i'd have to think is more consciously progressive than a majority of bands on this site... It has a jam section too, but it's governed by a series of vaguely sketched out changes that keeps it on an upward trajectory. Same with Run Like An Antelope where the jam is defined by "gears" as it goes from a staccato pulse to an otherworldly crescendo before dropping on a dime into some not-so-funky white reggae. Squirming Coil goes through a lot of complex changes that feel very natural in context. I've always thought the trickier parts of it were one of Phish's most underrated compositions. Nothing showy about it but it's constantly going through weird changes Split Open & Melt has a few strangely fitting sections in the beginning but is basically just an excuse to jam.. Only the jam is in a mix of three measures of 4/4 and one measure of 9/8 which gives it this wonderfully herky jerky quality. In general though, there's not much that connects Phish with the Dead outside of their fanbase. Phish has always had a passing interest in country, bluegrass and old timey rock & roll but they're a pretty small portion of their genre stew. It's just mystifying seeing a band who wrote some of the best "classic" progressive rock stuff of the 80s and 90s being lumped in with bands that pretty much just play hard rock with an occasional twist thrown in. Even a relatively latter day album from the period where they were wholeheartedly embracing Remain In Light and other groove based music - Story Of The Ghost- has Guyute & Limb By Limb which are probably more progressive than 95% of the music relegated to "Prog-Related" If a Pink Floyd or Yes put out an album tomorrow with songs featuring the more proggy parts of any of Phish's 50 most proggy songs everyone would be rejoicing about them returning to form. So it's just strange to me.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:03
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Guys, Phish is in the archives, so there's no real need to debate their prog-worthiness or lack thereof. |
Posted By: The Sloth
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 18:47
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Check this out guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1saKDqEQmBE Phish do organic eclecticism like no one else. Jon Fishman is the man.
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Posted By: The Sloth
Date Posted: March 31 2015 at 15:28
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I'm not going to bump this thread to hell, but I also wanted to recommend "It's Ice" to people. It's too proggy for folks to miss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaxcCaYe6rE
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 31 2015 at 15:39
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Prog is not a badge of honour. It's not even a guarantee for good music nor great imagination. Some of the most progressive artists out there are not prog. Take Sun Ra, Sunn O))) and Ennio Morricone - all of which have been submitted for inclusion on this very site at one point or another. None of them are prog, but they were just as boundary pushing and experimental as any artist listed on PA you care to throw at them. Would any of them, including Phish, be better/better off/more important/cooler/insert something - if they were included in a prog proper sub? ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: The Sloth
Date Posted: March 31 2015 at 16:29
| My interest in this thread (and any other Phish related conversation on this site) is a lot of people think of them as a Grateful Dead knockoff and, since they don't like that band, they skip Phish. There's a lot of interesting ideas in their music that prog fans would like. Just spreading the word. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 31 2015 at 16:35
Alright then
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 02 2015 at 19:15
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Don't forget live-only songs that are some of their proggiest songs. Harry Hood Colonel Forbin's Ascent Fly Famous Mockingbird Harpua The Lizards McGrupp and the Watchful Hosemasters ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: 'PiphanyRambler
Date Posted: April 03 2015 at 03:22
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I think Punch You in the Eye as well as Weekapaug Groove deserve a mention too. The latter often goes places during live executions, like the one in January this year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5U2K_iN_lU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5U2K_iN_lU |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: April 08 2015 at 08:40
That's what I thought at first but it turned out they were extremely different.
------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: May 29 2015 at 03:53
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Phish in the PA pantheon and still no Grateful Dead, more's the pity. The Dead were so much more inventive.....so much more PROGRESSIVE. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: July 02 2015 at 23:58
Yes, definitely not a Grateful Dead knockoff and much more inventive than the “jam band” tag would lead some to believe. Right now I’m listening to the “Live in Brooklyn” version of The Divided Sky which wanders heavily into prog territory.I’ve
long felt that many hardcore Phish Heads could be easily turned onto, say,
early Caravan albums like Grey and Pink, Girl Who Grow Plump, Waterloo Lily,
etc., or early Camel or maybe Soft Machine or other classic 70s prog albums if
they had the opportunity.
------------- Caption: We tend to take ourselves a little too seriously. Silly human race! Yes is for everybody! |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 00:23
Phish phans know and love prog almost as much as anyone here. If you check out any of the band's forums, like Phish.net/forum there are discussions about Canterbury, Zappa, Dream Theater, Yes, King Crimson, Soft Machine, Gentle Giant, jazz fusion, and modern prog too. It's the other way around. Prog fans, or just anyone unfamiliar with their music, will hear 'jam band' and think Grateful Dead/southern blues/noodling guitar music, when actually Phish's music is sophisticated, of its time and ahead of its time, at the same time. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:38
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My wife's cousin was a GIGANTIC Phish fan....even named his black lab Fee. He and his girlfriend would travel everywhere to see Phish. He was one of those guys that recorded all the shows he went to with a DAT machine and mini mics stuffed in his cap. Never did he call them prog or proggy, he simply called them a jam band very much like the Dead....He said they were the Dead of the 2000's. That's how I always saw Phish......Long jams always harken to prog rock long jams. Now I can stretch my thinking and agree they could have influence from the Softs, KC, Zappa and the like. If we are simply talking a label  then I would probably go with prog, that being said then so is the Grateful Dead.My wife's cousin loved their music and that was enough for him......Me personally I would not label them prog in my collection......Fusion Rock or Rock Fusion, something like that in my collection. -------------   
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 14:15
| Phish is definitely prog! He fronted Marillion back in the eighties and has maintained a prog...what? Not that same Fish? Ah, never mind then. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 14:48
 Can't say I ever cared for Phish.....always thought they were a bit boring musically. And was never really impressed with Anastasio's guitar plating. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 01:56
It can be doodl-y at times. Rift has some fancy work that's pretty impressive if you're looking for more complex stuff.
------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |