Definition of the word Progressive

1. Moving forward; advancing.
2. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
3. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods

By the definition of the word progressive, wouldn't that imply that progressive rock is basically any rock that strives to deviate from the musical norms of the day: i.e. stuff like Britney Spears, Green Day, generic nu-metal bands, and pop/corporate bands of the old-times.  Progressive rock could be defined as truly influential music that is far ahead of its time, that defines the future of music for other bands... a sort of pioneer in experimenting.  I do not understand why so many people in this forum are so incredibly narrow minded in what they consider "prog".  I see people who consider music that they don't like to not be "progressive" simply because they don't like it.  I think that there are several people in these forums who have a fundamentally wrong notion of what "progressive" music is and should be.

To use an example I would take the modern band System of a Down.  I personally do not like them very much, but I do feel that they are a progressive band.  From the times I've listened to some of their albums, I feel that they do not really attempt to sound like a... pop band?  I don't really know how to say it, but they do not sound like any other band today.  Wouldn't that make them "progressive"?  If they are attempting to create their own sound that is progressing from album to album?  So what if it's popular?  Since when does being "popular" make something not "progressive".  It wouldn't really be "progressive" if it wasn't popular, as progressive implies that it brings about change.  Look at Pink Floyd, there are several people here who are so close-minded they consider DSotM to be a "pop" album.  It is perhaps the MOST influential album ever created, certainly PROGRESSIVE in any sense.

Sorry, you're wrong. There must be 100 threads that deal with the definition of prog.

Concisely (for the more general term of progressive arts):

Artists who are striving for something unique by exploring beyond the horizons.

fractalman wrote: Concisely (for the more general term of progressive arts): Artists who are striving for something unique by exploring beyond the horizons.

I think that's a good definition for "Progressive Music", but unfortunately not for "Progressive Rock".

However, by your definition, punk music would be prog because it strives to deviate from what is normal and popular.  A glaring paradox indeed. 

It's really ok to like music that isn't prog.  A lot of people here seem to think that because an album or band doesnt fit specifically into a prog category that they must be bad.  Another folly is to desperately try to categorize non-prog bands that you like as prog.  It's really quite ok for a band to not be prog.  you're allowed to like them. 

so then whats the definition for "progressive rock"?   So by the definition of alot of people in this forum, I could get together a group of 4 or 5 session musicians, write an album of 5 15 minute songs with solos, virtuoso playing and that would be considered prog?  It seems to me that most people here consider prog to just be the music from the 70's classic prog bands.  I'm saying that there are alot more bands that are truly "progressive" than what is listed on this site.  Just because someone can write a 20 minute song doesn't make it any more or less progressive than several songs on Dark Side of the Moon, which was a highly influential album. 

Progressive implies that it brings about change.  I don't see many influences in popular culture from bands such as Yes and Genesis in today's music, but I do see influence from bands like Pink Floyd.  So which one was truly... progressive?

Progressive rock:

Rock that uses elements from other genres such as (but certainly not limited to) jazz and classical and/or plays their instruments in a very innovative style producing a sonic tapestry that transcends a single musical genre.

I know what progressive music is: "music that I like but that most people I know don't like".

Here's the definition:

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp

I think that this describes it very well.

Some excerpts:

Some common, though not universal, elements of progressive rock include:

• Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp. These are often described as epics and are the genre's clearest nod to classical music. An early example is the 23-minute "Echoes" by Pink Floyd. Other famous examples include Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (43 minutes), Yes' "Close to the Edge" (18 minutes) and Genesis' "Supper's Ready" (23 minutes). More recent extreme examples are the 60-minute "Light of Day, Day of Darkness" by Green Carnation and "Garden of Dreams" by The Flower Kings.
• Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness. Many early 1970s progressive rock bands (especially German ones) featured lyrics concerned with left-wing politics and social issues.
• Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play. In the days of vinyl, these were usually two-record sets with strikingly designed gatefold sleeves. Famous examples include The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis, Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, 2112 by Rush, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall by Pink Floyd, and the more recent Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream Theater and Snow by Spock's Beard. Aqualung, perhaps the best-known record by Jethro Tull, is often regarded as a concept album due to its recurring themes, but songwriter Ian Anderson has always claimed that the album is just "a bunch of songs".
• Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant.
• Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer, in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and drums.
• Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer Neil Peart.
• Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite, and Emerson Lake and Palmer have performed arrangements of pieces by Copland, Bartók, Moussorgsky, Prokofiev, Janacek, Alberto Ginastera, and often feature quotes from J. S. Bach in lead breaks. Jethro Tull recorded a famous cover of J. S. Bach's "Bouree", in which they turned the classical piece into a "sleazy jazzy night-club song", according to Ian Anderson. Marillion started concerts with Rossini's La Gazza Ladra (The Thieving Magpie). Symphony X has included parts by, or inspired by, Beethoven, Holst and Mozart.
• An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday. Some bands became as well-known for the art direction of their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean, whose paintings and logo design for Yes are so essential to the band's identity they could be said to serve the same function as corporate branding. Hipgnosis became equally famous for their unusual sleeves for Pink Floyd, often featuring experimental photography quite innovative for the time (two men shaking hands, one of whom is in flames, on the cover of Wish You Were Here). H.R. Giger's painting for Emerson Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery is one of the most famous album sleeves ever produced.

I think that the the main element that is missing in this list is the artistic approach. A band like System Of A Down is not trying to establish a new style of music, they are just using elements of many styles in unusual ways. Their main goal is to inform people about political and social problems, while having a good time on stage. Listen to an album like Selling England by the Pound, and you'll see what I mean by artistic approach.

xhamasaki wrote: well that is true about the artistic approach.  I guess that the term progressive implies that it will actually bring about change.

It does ... in the early years of prog the progressive bands all were innovative. But as soon as the term "Progressive Rock" had become a label for the prog bands of that time (Yes, Genesis, KC, ...), innovation was no longer a prerquisite for prog.

I think we have to distinguish between a discussion about what is and what isn't "Progressive", and what is and what isn't "Progressive Rock". The latter determines if a band should be listed here. I think that you can't just include all bands that arr innovative. 

fractalman wrote: I still like my definition over the novel at http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp .  It cuts to the chase without being over analytical.

IMO your definition is not precise enough. It includes a lot of bands that aren't Prog.

Right, I don't have a problem with it either.  Many prog fans seem to get too analytical.  For example, one person suggested that Simple Minds is not progressive because there's no acoustic guitar on any of their albums.  While this *may* be true, the reasoning is pure hogwash!

I have a great question:

Other than the musicians that comprise the band, what in the heck makes Asia progressive?

Here's a list of bands in order of progressiveness:

Asia, Simple Minds, Saga, Yes, New Trolls, King Crimson, Magma

xhamasaki wrote: yeah but by your definition alot of bands would be considered progressive- not that I have a problem with that, but others would..

fractalman wrote: I have a great question: Other than the musicians that comprise the band, what in the heck makes Asia progressive?

Not much ... but they are quite similar to Genesis in their non progressive phase in the 80s, so it makes sense that they're here if only for completionists ...

There is no definitive formula for deciding what's prog and what isn't. IMO the owners have found a good solution: They decide, there's no arguing. This means that there will always be some bands that aren't listed, but many people think they're prog, and some others are listed and everyone complains about it. As long as there is no perfect solution, I like it fine ... if nothing else, it generates good forum discussion threads.

xhamasaki wrote: why couldn't you include all bands that are innovative, thats basically what progressive means!  There really aren't that many innovative modern bands now adays anyway hehe

No, it doesn't ...

Citanul wrote: xhamasaki wrote: but GoldenSpiral, most punk bands use the same style/sound.  If there was a punk band that tried another approach at the genre, of course I would consider them to be progressive. So would Green Day putting out a concept album with multiple-part songs running close to 10 minutes in length make them progressive?

Yes, IF they additionally evolved as musicians, made their music more complex (so that you need several spins to understand it) and were more interested in creating a work of art than make easy money from teenies ... The Mars Volta is a good example of a Punk-based Prog band. It is possible.

That's your opinion.  Which is fine.  However, I do not share that view.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: fractalman wrote: I still like my definition over the novel at http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp .  It cuts to the chase without being over analytical. IMO your definition is not precise enough. It includes a lot of bands that aren't Prog.

Progressive rock is defined by the song "Corporation Combo Boys" from the Dutch band Supersister.

>> http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JPL2SP8TNWSS3UGHWTAKJVV4S - http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JPL2SP8TNWSS3UGHWTAKJVV4 S

Joren wrote: Progressive rock is defined by the song "Corporation Combo Boys" from the Dutch band Supersister. >> http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JPL2SP8TNWSS3UGHWTAKJVV4S - http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JPL2SP8TNWSS3UGHWTAKJVV4 S

 Wow, that's the shortest epic that I ever heard.

The definition of Prog Rock is "Can-Utility and the Coastliners".

Among others...

Certif1ed wrote: The definition of Prog Rock is "Can-Utility and the Coastliners". Among others...

I always considered "Can-Uitility and the Coastliners" to be at least "very inspired" by "Astral Traveller" of Yes. Just compare the rhythms and the organ solos of both tracks.

Progressive rock (shortened to prog, or prog rock when differentiating from other "progressive..." genres) is an ambitious, eclectic, and often grandiose style of rock music which arose in the late 1960s, reached the peak of its popularity in the early 1970s, and continues as a musical form to this day. Progressive rock began in England and remained largely a European movement, although there are a few notable American and Canadian progressive rock bands. This music style draws many influences from classical music and jazz fusion, in contrast to American rock, which was more influenced by rhythm & blues and country. Over the years various sub-genres of progressive rock have emerged, such as symphonic rock, art rock, math rock and progressive metal.

Progressive rock artists sought to move away from the limitations of popular rock and pop music formats, and "progress" rock to the point that it could achieve new forms, often but not always alluding to the sophistication of jazz or classical music. It is complexity, not the virtuosity of the musicians, which most distinguishes progressive rock: mainstream rock has some extremely talented musicians who work solely in simple meters and harmonies.

Progressive rock is difficult to define in a single conclusive way, and outspoken King Crimson leader Robert Fripp has voiced his disdain for the term. The major acts that defined the genre in the 1970s (Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Rush and King Crimson) do not sound especially alike. There is also debate on whether the musical output of artists and bands as varied as Frank Zappa, Phish, and Radiohead belongs to the genre.