It's correct for me, except for the drugs part.

Retroventuremod wrote: NetsNJFan wrote: ha ha my Dad listened to a lot of prog in the 70's, and he doesnt/didnt even drink, let along smoke pot. but he did wear a YES belt buckle (all the way through the mid '80s!) OH RIGHT ON - how would u manage to pick up something like that!!! - i bought a fragile shirt online about 7 months ago - it already has a small hole in the back though damn online merchandise I have my avatar as a belt buckle, i picked it up in wasaga a few weeks ago - i thought it was the greatest thing - to replace my doors belt buckle (PS thanks for seeing the humour in my topic)

ha ha sure

They [Yes, I mean] were in Montreal last year as well - I lucked out, a friend told me about it and I got the connections (and by connections I mean the cash and an unwilling-victim-to-drag-along) to go. It was spectacular and I think they made my year.  Live AND studio is the way to go with them!

Oh, and no drugs (never had the occasion) so no stereotype here. All I do is go out of my way to find shirts that look like the kind of stuff Jon Anderson used to wear. (they amuse the heck out of me!)

There was a site made by a poor soul who was convinced that sweet, innocent prog rock was the root of all evil. *grin* His main case against it was King Crimson's name and the album names "Starless and Bible Black" and "Red". Which I always thought had more to do with colours than with potential antichrists. Likely it's been mentioned before on the forum threads ... aw, I'm only sorry I can't offer you a link, because it appears to have been taken down. Can't imagine why.

Gatot wrote: NOPE! In my country, people who prog don't do any drugs or even drink (well, some people do. But because I'm moslem and beer is prohibitted - so I stay away from beer). The best thing to enjoy prog is while sipping a cup of coffee and reading the CD sleeve notes or printed material from review on the net. Oh man .... it's really greaaaaatttt ......

nice one Gatot!!!

Its nice to know someone else does that too!! But I sip strong milky sweet tea instead and  look at all the reviews online as I am listening to the CD  (or looking at the sleeve notes)  -

felona wrote: nice one Gatot!!! Its nice to know someone else does that too!! But I sip strong milky sweet tea instead and  look at all the reviews online as I am listening to the CD  (or looking at the sleeve notes)  -

Thanks Felona.

Yeah .. we share similar activities when enjoying music. Well, for album that I have been accustomed to - like Dark Side, Selling England, I usually don't read the sleeve anymore but I read book. It's really great experience.

nousommedusolei wrote: People who take Prog seriously usually have enough imagination and brain power to keep themselves entertained without the use of drugs.

This is 100% correct, but im sad to say about 1 year ago till about 2 months ago, I smoked weed a few times a month and listened to all my favorite Floyd albums. Best albums while I was high would be the ones that are the best while im sober, Animals, Meddle, Darkside, Wish, Atom Heart Mother. I very much enjoyed the time I had with these albums while I was high. Then when I came to this web site about 2 months ago and discovered all the great bands, I found out that I could listen to them and not smoke and have just as much fun.

Now that I take prog seriously and have found out how good it is to listen to it with all my concentration and brain power I know that I can be just as entertained without drugs.

O ya, I tried shrooms once and listened to Atom Heart Mother and that was probably the greatest listen to music in my life, but I wont do it agian, since shrooms can make u have a bad trip or really make u do somehting stupid. Don't recomend shrooms at all, but weed is harmless enough to have a nice sit and listen to music with, but I'm still done with it.

Retroventuremod wrote: Yes was in T.O. last year, i would have gone to it if id known about it earlier

Yeah, me too.  Yes are my favorite band, but I didn't go because they were going to be there during my first week of school.  I really regret it now, what with Wakeman retiring from live performance and all, and Anderson leaving.  And Dream Theater were opening for them, too.  They aren't one of my favorites, but I wouldn't mind seeing them. 

A lot of us were smoking up at the end of the 70's , so I imagine that in the early 70's they were too.

Compared to Metalheads (heavy drinking and a bit of smoking), Disco Fiends (uppers and coke) and Punks (mostly booze but sometimes hard drugs) , we were dopeheads! We considered ourselves as such , but this stayed only to smoking and drinking!

I read Macan's book about 10 years ago and found nothing to say on that particular chapter.

NetsNJFan wrote: ha ha my Dad listened to a lot of prog in the 70's, and he doesnt/didnt even drink, let along smoke pot. but he did wear a YES belt buckle (all the way through the mid '80s!)

 I'm wearing a Rush belt buckle currently. My parents never listened to prog  (I introduced them to it) They married in 74 so they missed out during the biggest years of prog

anyways I don't do drugs, I have druggie friends but none of them like prog. Most drug users I've come across, were into indie/punk/emo

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7530681361&category=85979&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1 - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=75306 81361&category=85979&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

there's some yes buckles on ebay

Hail you, Gatot and Felona! I thought people like you vanished:)
I myself have never touched drugs, even cigarette, and alcohol since my childhood (yeah, the last time I drank alcohol -intentionally- was when I was 17!) and I raised in a muslim society, like gatot; and to your surprise, I am a church going christian! (Thankfully there are people like me: wakeman?!?!?)

Despite the "hippy" image, I believe most proggers here have respected jobs (at least make enough money to buy thousands of albums) and I am a translator. Well, my money is not enough for thousand albums, sigh. Thankfully we have MP3's here.

I believe there's no stereotype of a progger, at least for the fact that it ambodies many different styles, from jazz to classical, from metal to experimental/electronic!

another fact: NetsNJfan has a point about Yes, just inspect their lifestyles!! (and consider Wakeman contrary to the rest, he is the christian one!!!!!!) Videovertigo took this further: actually indie/punks should have been classified so. Yet, we know that there are drug influenced acts, at least in the beginning of prog: does Timothy Leary suggest anything!? I just love the music produced, no matter how it came out; Light My Fire is my all time favorite Doors track, and it couldn't have come that way if it weren't for the fact that they were high!!!!

don't spend much time on prototypes, just enjoy the music! keep on proggin'

PS: if there are other christians among you, please send me a private post. I would like to meet people of my kind!

Sociologically speaking, progressive music was bought and heard  (i.e. as albums and gigs) by the middle class (that is here originally in the UK). It was the music played by those who were  continuing their education beyond the age of 16, therefore there were a lot of university and college undergraduates. A lot of these would have had some music in their education, especially serious music and possibly grown to appreciate that music could be complex and enjoyable, e.g. something that could intellectually rewarding, rather once played could be forgotten until heard on the radio the next time. Prog lasted longer than the 2min 30 seconds average of a pop song as well as being far more complex wrt structure. The fans were perhaps better off (or their parents!) and could  afford albums, to drop out, get dope without being busted too many times. As written on another thread, there was a rough class separation between popular music fans, here the hippies (a term used in a very broad sense) and the skinheads - the latter liked simpler music, were into reggae before most othe rpeople - especially the prog fans (NOTE: not until the Police produced their so-called regatta de blac- blue eyed reggae - did the rock audiencve take that on board - and of course Rush took up much of the regatta de blanc style when Police folded). Prog music was new and radical and therefore something that related well to the so-called revolutional attitudes and the new freedoms which younger people demanded i and in some way obtained at that time. Toss inthe key words : 60's and society, into Amazon (in my case Amazon.UK's) search engine and dozens of books appear on the subject.

iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone?

yea thats me

Retroventuremod wrote: While in uni, doing a history essay, I decided to search for a book on prog rock in the library, to my amazement I found one called Rocking the Classics: Progressive Rock and the Counterculture, by Edward Macan. Anyway, it was a very interesting book, about prog rocks history, bands, styles, fans etc. My question on the prog rock fan (esp. 70s fans), is that he labels them as people who if they arent at the concerts, they are in their friends apartment listening to the albums, smoking pot.  Do you think this is true, (I do when it comes to me lol, but i only recently got into prog a year ago), or is this a  stereotype? I would be interested in some responses, and hey, even what you listen to if this is true for you- i opt for close to the edge usually, oh and cream- disraeli gears (yes i know its not prog), and i think id go for traffic - Mr Fantasy

Oh, you said you do?

What a sanctimonious lot you young proggers are! I was around in the 70s and smoked weed, got drunk, took mushrooms and generally did the kind of stupid things you're meant to do when you're young. Not all of this was necessarily linked to listening to prog, but as a prog fan there was usually a prog album playing in the background. I still enjoy the odd toot on a bong, sometimes with an old Floyd or Gong album on in the background, and what's wrong with that?

You youngsters today are far too level headed for my liking - a spell in the Deadheads would soon sort your heads out! 

While the amount of drugs consumed by the youth, may have decreased since the 70's, stupidity has increased exponentially to such a degree that it is fashionable. Turn on the TV to be fully convinced.

Poxx wrote: While the amount of drugs consumed by the youth, may have decreased since the 70's, stupidity has increased exponentially to such a degree that it is fashionable. Turn on the TV to be fully convinced.

but have prog fans ever really concerned themselves with what is fashionable?  certainly not, and the same still holds true (for the most part....)

DavidInsabella wrote:

Oh, you said you do?

Retroventuremod wrote: Syzygy wrote: What a sanctimonious lot you young proggers are! I was around in the 70s and smoked weed, got drunk, took mushrooms and generally did the kind of stupid things you're meant to do when you're young. Not all of this was necessarily linked to listening to prog, but as a prog fan there was usually a prog album playing in the background. I still enjoy the odd toot on a bong, sometimes with an old Floyd or Gong album on in the background, and what's wrong with that? You youngsters today are far too level headed for my liking - a spell in the Deadheads would soon sort your heads out!  I agree, there are a lot of young, very serious people on this board.  Those of you in uni/college, like me, don't you realise these will be the most fun years of your lives? Don't ruin it by never having fun, and only studying.  Universities are all about having a laugh, drinking a few beers, smoking a doob with your mates, rocking out at a party or bars, going to class at 9am hungover. balance is bliss. lol

I'm not saying that copious beers and shots haven't been consumed (and they are, often) but it has no connection with my enjoyment of music.  I've never understood how musicians play under the influence.  my chops are ruined as soon as the consumption begins!

Bilek wrote: Hail you, Gatot and Felona! I thought people like you vanished:) I myself have never touched drugs, even cigarette, and alcohol since my childhood (yeah, the last time I drank alcohol -intentionally- was when I was 17!) and I raised in a muslim society, like gatot; and to your surprise, I am a church going christian! (Thankfully there are people like me: wakeman?!?!?) Despite the "hippy" image, I believe most proggers here have respected jobs (at least make enough money to buy thousands of albums) and I am a translator. Well, my money is not enough for thousand albums, sigh. Thankfully we have MP3's here. I believe there's no stereotype of a progger, at least for the fact that it ambodies many different styles, from jazz to classical, from metal to experimental/electronic! another fact: NetsNJfan has a point about Yes, just inspect their lifestyles!! (and consider Wakeman contrary to the rest, he is the christian one!!!!!!) Videovertigo took this further: actually indie/punks should have been classified so. Yet, we know that there are drug influenced acts, at least in the beginning of prog: does Timothy Leary suggest anything!? I just love the music produced, no matter how it came out; Light My Fire is my all time favorite Doors track, and it couldn't have come that way if it weren't for the fact that they were high!!!! don't spend much time on prototypes, just enjoy the music! keep on proggin' PS: if there are other christians among you, please send me a private post. I would like to meet people of my kind!

yes I am christian, but I don't believe that really changes anything (it should though) there are druggy christians as well as non-christians. A lot of people are two faced.

  Also my other Christian friends don't approve of my music I guess if its not on a christian record label its a sin to listen to.  One of the reasons I don't like mainstream religion its just a business/coporation.

I like to think Jesus would listen to prog though.

NetsNJFan wrote: iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone? yea thats me

me too, exactly

video vertigo wrote: NetsNJFan wrote: iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone? yea thats me me too, exactly

That's me too !!!

Prog-Brazil wrote: video vertigo wrote: NetsNJFan wrote: iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone? yea thats me me too, exactly That's me too !!!

A flawless dicription of me.

I had no idea so many proggers (mostly younger one's) don't get high.  I thought at least some of us would be 'potheads'. Of course there could be some around choosing not to respond.  But mostly, i am very proud.....any time someone can ENJOY THE MUSIC, without 'help' and actually listen to the powerful lyrics/messages, it's a wonderful thing (Gatot, Felona, Danbo, Trouserpress... ).  I think it is sad when older people, who are supposed to be wise, and set a good example, urge younger people to do drugs (it can be in good fun, but this is how how addictions start, and peoples lives can get screwed up....i'm sure many of you know someone who has died resulting from drugs/alchohol.). This is why society is in the sh*tter these days..."drinking underage and f**king like rabbits.", as Stonebeard put it in another thread.  Prog = the antidrug

Retroventuremod wrote: Fearless wrote: I had no idea so many proggers (mostly younger one's) don't get high.  I thought at least some of us would be 'potheads'. Of course there could be some around choosing not to respond.  But mostly, i am very proud.....any time someone can ENJOY THE MUSIC, without 'help' and actually listen to the powerful lyrics/messages, it's a wonderful thing (Gatot, Felona, Danbo, Trouserpress... ).  I think it is sad when older people, who are supposed to be wise, and set a good example, urge younger people to do drugs (it can be in good fun, but this is how how addictions start, and peoples lives can get screwed up....i'm sure many of you know someone who has died resulting from drugs/alchohol.). This is why society is in the sh*tter these days..."drinking underage and f**king like rabbits.", as Stonebeard put it in another thread.  Prog = the antidrug What are you talking about? antidrug my arse.   I saw an interview of Yes, where Jon Anderson was speaking where they were talking about a time they had just gotten high or something, then they saw Paul McCartney, and Paul said "I just did acid yesterday" So Jon said they all went and did some acid, cos Paul had done it, so they felt they had to do it to. But your right, I am very surprised, about the lack of young proggers and their lack of drug intake. PS, my original question was only on pot, who dies from pot? Its impossible.

I think you may have misunderstood me....after reading several of the posts here (ie. AHM, and Danbo specifically), i saw that some people don't need drugs to enjoy prog, or listening to it shows them that they no longer need to do drugs. Also, i wasn't being completely serious, that explains the laughing emoticon.....Now for the actual artists, on the other hand, i know they were mostly all on drugs, it was the 70's for cryin out loud, everyone did drugs.  And when i said that people die, i didn't mean from pot, i meant from acid, heroine, alchohol, etc., i have quite a few friends who's lives have changed very much do to drug use.

There are so many threads about general drug use it's quite maddening. People have the right to make up their own minds and do what they want (to a reasonable degree), that is after all the general ethos behind the tradtional "Western" way of life.

my parents were 18 when I was born in Dec 1968 in Oakland, California, and both hippies, which is no wonder given time and location. prog only developed just then, and my parents both became big prog-heads who were especially into kraut. I grew up with all kinds of weird music, bead curtains, incense sticks and billowing clouds of "sweet smoke". small wonder I turned into a prog-head; I've known it all my life.

as for drugs: nothing wrong with them as long as they don't become an addiction. it depends a lot on the personality of the person using drugs though; some people are more prone to become addicts than other. and I would never recommend drugs to anyone. but I would neither hold a sermon against them. I have done my fair share of some, avoided others on purpose and still use drugs from time to time

most people use drugs and are not aware of the fact. while cigarettes are generally considered to be drugs meanwhile and alcohol too, hardly anyone speaks of coffee, tea or cocoa, for example.

I use some hallucinogenic drugs (fly agaric) for a shamanistic ritual 4 times a year, on the solstices and equinoxes

iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone?

female and care a lot about fashion, but prefer to create my own. I also don't get nervous in the presence of other women, but perhaps aroused depending on what they look like. the rest ok, but delete "boffin" from "bedroom-boffin type"

BaldJean wrote: my parents were 18 when I was born in Dec 1968 in Oakland, California, and both hippies, which is no wonder given time and location. prog only developed just then, and my parents both became big prog-heads who were especially into kraut. I grew up with all kinds of weird music, bead curtains, incense sticks and billowing clouds of "sweet smoke". small wonder I turned into a prog-head; I've known it all my life. as for drugs: nothing wrong with them as long as they don't become an addiction. it depends a lot on the personality of the person using drugs though; some people are more prone to become addicts than other. and I would never recommend drugs to anyone. but I would neither hold a sermon against them. I have done my fair share of some, avoided others on purpose and still use drugs from time to time most people use drugs and are not aware of the fact. while cigarettes are generally considered to be drugs meanwhile and alcohol too, hardly anyone speaks of coffee, tea or cocoa, for example. I use some hallucinogenic drugs (fly agaric) for a shamanistic ritual 4 times a year, on the solstices and equinoxes

I wasn't 'holding a sermon' against drugs if that's what you think.  I said that it is all good fun. I really don't have much of a problem with adults using drugs, they tend to know what their doing.  Younger people are more prone to addiction because many times, they don't have anything better to do, so they just keep doin it.  When you have your whole life ahead of you, it is unwise to let things such as drugs distract you from school, family,etc.  This is a part of the whole 'dumbing down' of society.  On the other hand, as long as your use doesn't affect others, and you don't use them too much/get addicted, then there is no problem with it....people certainly have the free will to do what they please.

This may be a stupid question.......but what is a "bedroom boffin-type"?

Sorry, i'm just an ignorant american.

NetsNJFan wrote: iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone? yea thats me

Well sort of.  Let's see:

 I'm male

white

not really nerdy, but I don't care about fashionable items or ideas

I don't get nervous in the presence of females...after all I'm da bomb

I hate writing essays

however: I hate record companies

I'm very nostalgic, but not afraid to admit it

and I'm passionate about music and other hobbies.  So I'm about half of the average prog fan.

yer average prog rock fan: who is now in his 40's but will play the game when he was a teenager, as obviously

predominantly male : yes and no (many women were present at 70's prog concerts)
white caucasian origin : yes
nerdy bedroom-boffin type : is that not making your bedroom into a shrineas a teenager: A bit but nothing nerdy!!! Today , not even my living room and even less my bedroom
doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas : never did care for fashion
gets nervous in the presence of females : every or most teenagers felt that way, as you get laid regularly , this disappears quickly
writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it : I only got into writing recently. Never felt the need to write down my feelings about anything , but lately......
hates record companies and radio stations : It is the industry , I dislike (whether in food, books and other forms of entertaiment - Hollywood among others)
is more nostalgic than he dares to admit : yes, but I have lived those 70's years. I don't grasp how can someone be nostalgic of something he has not lived.
passionately about music and other hobbies… : not that much but a bit, anyway( I would not be im the PA)

anything else anyone? Most of us where weed smokers and used to get drunk but as a social thing , not as a loner. Weed is certainly very communicative. Even if we were to part right after the end of the doobie , we generally always looked for company to smoke one and often it created links. No need to listen to the same music , to be friendly.

Too many youngsters are toooooo busy (IMHO) classifying themselves and trying to find similarities in attitude as to belong in a group. This is a normal teenage thing and it lasts until the mid-20's but it is not a natural state of mind. It is a sort of self-searching thing that make you look for a category to fit. Just be yourselves and you'll avoid the nerdism.....and the fear of the opposite sex.

BTW: Jon Anderson frequently enjoys speaking about smoking up in concert , he once spoke of him starting to smoke tea and another time encouraged the crowd to get the sweet smoke coming to him as he loved the smell.

fly agaric is a mushroom  - amanita muscaria; "musca" is Latin for "fly". the toxin inside this mushroom - muscarin - was used for killing flies in former times. it is the strongest known natural hallucinogenic.

here a pic:

they surely are poisonous when taken to much of, that's why you are being told to dodge them. but they are the ones which contain the strongest natural hallucinogenic. they are used by Kirgisian and Usbekian shamans who drink the pee of reindeers (who eat these mushrooms. their metabolism is not affected by the hallucinogenic for some reason, and their pee contans muscarin, which is the active agent in the mushroom). William Hurt uses them in the movie "Altered States", when he goes on his "trip".

the scientific name for them is "amanita muscaria". they belong into the same family as the infamos death-cap ("amanita phalloides"). most mushrooms of the amanita family are more or less poisonous, only "amanita rubescens", also known as "the blusher" ("Perlpilz" in German), is edible

sigod wrote: I didn't take a lot of drugs but being a spotty teenager with hormones raging, I do remember an awful lot of self pleasuring going on.

I was going to suggest you should have taken yourself in hand, but you might have got the wrong end of the stick......

NetsNJFan wrote: iguana wrote: yer average prog rock fan: predominantly male white caucasian origin nerdy bedroom-boffin type doesn't care about fashionable items and ideas gets nervous in the presence of females writes lengthy essays just for the sake of it hates record companies and radio stations is more nostalgic than he dares to admit passionately about music and other hobbies… anything else anyone? yea thats me

Wow, that's creepy. That's just me. Except I don't usually become nervous around females...too often...

And I don't do drugs.