Gentle Giant: with or without Phil Shulman?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85172
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 12:43
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Topic: Gentle Giant: with or without Phil Shulman?
Posted By: Gandalff
Subject: Gentle Giant: with or without Phil Shulman?
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 10:58
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentle_Giant_%28album%29" rel="nofollow - Gentle Giant (1970)
- without him: First era has an average PA rating 4,09 (rounded). Second era has 3,52 (rounded).
Nevertheless, these numbers may not be decisive. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Replies:
Posted By: PabstRibbon
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 11:23
| Three Friends that's it |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 11:33
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The only album i like without him is Free Hand. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 11:52
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My favourite GG albums are without Phil - In A Glass House, The Power And The Glory and Free Hand. He sure was a great loss, but those three albums are light years ahead from the earlier albums.
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 12:16
| The first four albums are more diverse, I voted for that. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 12:17
This. Not to say their earlier ones aren't great, but all three of the albums that came after are masterpieces for me. |
Fox On The Rocks wrote:Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 12:33
Well, it is indeed nice, but then they ruin it with trashes like Giant For A Day or Civilian. Therefore, I prefer their first four records, since they are more consistent and we can see that Phil was really an equivalent part of the band, including his considerable author contribution. Without him, it's somehow not the same. I accept without reservation from this period actually Free Hand only. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: Capt Fongsby
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 13:46
 Woohoo! Post #40, and voting rights! I vote With Phil Shulman. Purely subjective; I just enjoy the earlier period more. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 14:04
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Same as Fox on the Rocks, without Shulman. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 15:47
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With Phil. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Hober Mallow
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 17:46
------------- “When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life.” John Kennedy Toole |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 21:51
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The albums without the elder Shulman seemed a lot less proggy and with a gradual drift towards going entirely mainstream. Sure, "Glass House", "Power and the Glory" and "Free Hand" are great records, but they don't spark my imagination like those first four, particularly "Acquiring the Taste". My vote goes for 'with Shulman', as the latter albums don't impress me as much as the first four. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: rupert
Date Posted: February 25 2012 at 21:55
Quite agree here, it's my favourite as well. ------------- ...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock ! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 26 2012 at 02:54
| Octopus and Power And The Glory are my favourites so this is quite difficult! I think I marginally prefer the heavier version of GG which actually started with Octopus. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 26 2012 at 09:04
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GG fan that I am I wasn't really aware of when Phil left. Despite the Giant For A Day turkey, I went for post Phil.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: February 26 2012 at 14:35
| With, I managed to choose just because the Phil era has 4 excellents albums, whereas the period without him has only 3 albums of this quality (Interview is only half-good and the last three don't do much for me) |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: February 26 2012 at 14:51
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I think their best albums are just before AND just after his departure. I guess if I had to choose, after ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 07:27
I'll always have a soft spot for Civilian because they came to Atlanta on what I think was the last of five more appearances live before they hung it up.  More importantly, I got into a venue I was too young to be in to see them and they broadcast the show on radio.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: spknoevl
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 07:50
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I think Phil's leaving helped the band focus a little more on the arrangements and a little less on multi-instrumentation. In a Glass House, Free Hand and Power and the Glory are more streamlined efforts instrumently with, arguably, better songs yet the arrangements are still as interesting as the earlier releases. ------------- http://martinwebb.bandcamp.com The notes are just an interesting way to get from one silence to the next - Mick Gooderick |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 08:02
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With Phil, no doubt. I prefer the older albums much more, even though they have done some fine things post-Phil. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 27 2012 at 11:55
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Easily WITH.
The first three without are very good but clearly are missing a flavor that I cherish in GG music. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: March 01 2012 at 13:24
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Will vote with Phil when I have enough posts, 'cause I prefer their earlier albums. -------------  
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Posted By: SutterCane
Date Posted: February 18 2014 at 21:58
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As a musician, Phil Shulman was the guy who influenced hardly vision of the band. He wrote all lyrics parts (Advent of Panurge or Knots for example). He was an accomplished musician, not a rookie as young Genesis musicians as Anthony Phillips or Mike Rutherford. Like compare Martin Smith or Malcom Mortimore with poorest drummers (for example John Mayhew (have respect for the guy the musician wasn't enough talented), Chris Stewart, John Silver, Ringo Starr, Pete Best, Doug Sandom etc... is totally out of subject. Phil Shulman came from a complete musical education as same for Ray and Derek. They studied, play and love music for long time. Kerry Minnear was the other biggest creative part of the band. He was also a real talented singer (Pantagruel's Nativity). Personnally my favorite tracks (I love all tracks of the four first albums) are (if I have to choose two tracks per albums will be (hard choice)): Gentle Giant - Giant - Funny ways Acquiring the Taste - Wreck (or Black cat) - Plain truth Three Friends: - Prologue - Peel the paint Octopus: - Knots - The advent of panurge But this is a real hard choice. After Phil's left, I personnally love "Free hand", "In a glass house" and "The power and the glory". Interview was a real experiment album, as after the live album was released, they definitely lost their musical inspiration. Disco kill progressive rock :( |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: February 18 2014 at 23:00
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9.25 vs 7.28
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 18 2014 at 23:25
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With ------------- |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 19 2014 at 02:56
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most definitely with. after "Octopus" Gentle Giant lack a certain sound color which was present in the first 4 albums. to use an analogy: it is as if a painter who is well known for his use of a certain color, let's say umbra because that is the color Phil Shulman reminds me of regarding his sound, suddenly decides not to use that color anymore
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: February 19 2014 at 08:17
Well said
 |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 19 2014 at 21:48
| Definitley with Phil. I only have their albums with him, plus "Playing the Fool", and for what I've heard, I don't plan to buy the ones without him. I really loved their first two albums, and the other two were gradually more annoying and with less songs that I enjoy. On "Playing the Fool" the only song I really liked was "Funny Ways" all the rest was most annoying (actually, that one was the first album I got, and I almost made my mind not to get anything else from them, but thankfully I did get their first albums). Plus, some time ago, I heard "The Power and the Glory" through YouTube, and didn't really enjoy much of it (though I must admit I only heard it once). However, I must say I'm a bit surprised that the option with Phil is winning, given that I always got the impression for posts here that the albums after he left were generally the most loved ones (at least the first ones). |
Posted By: Gully Foyle
Date Posted: February 20 2014 at 12:08
| Power and The Glory is their high point for me, so post-phil |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: February 20 2014 at 12:26
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As much as I hate voting for "Without Phil", I mostly prefer the albums after. Phil is cool though. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: February 20 2014 at 12:29
I guess you can vote now.  ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: February 20 2014 at 16:52
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with definitely. I absolutely adore the first four albums and as far as the post-Phil albums are concerned, I only love In a Glass House, though I can enjoy Free Hand and (rarely) The Power -------------  |
Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: February 20 2014 at 16:52
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haven't heard the last four though ------------- |
Posted By: Chimaera
Date Posted: February 22 2014 at 17:43
| I like everything up to and including Free Hand and I can even enjoy some of the later stuff in small doses. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: February 22 2014 at 18:01
| Based on general sound alone, I prefer with Phil (and cringe at the final three albums), but, although Acquiring the Taste trumps all for me, I feel The Power and Glory, Free Hand, and Interview are a lot more solid than s/t, Three Friends, and Octopus. Post-Phil has my vote. |
Posted By: Genital Giant
Date Posted: February 23 2014 at 17:54
| Gentle Giant didn't really mature as a band until after Phil left, those first four albums consist of a lot of experimentation, which is good, but a lot of it was pretty masturbatory. When GG hit their stride with Power and the Glory, Freehand, and Interview, that's really when they were at their most sophisticated and they had gotten good enough to make their music work which it sometimes didn't do very well on the earlier albums. |
Posted By: SutterCane
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 03:35
| "Pretty masturbatory"??? Are you serious??? Are you musician to tell that Mr. "Genital Giant" (what a stupid name)? If you prefer commercial success that's your concern but don't speak when you didn't known. Giant, Acquiring, Three Friends and Octopus are definitely the best creative albums from the best band ever. Phil Shulman did a lot of influence during his time with Giant. But I think this is the majority: frustrated people who didn't have a life always find them better than these legendary and respectful creative artists. Ridiculous. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 04:10
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Isn't it quiet and cold without Phil Shulman ??
I absolutely adore the first 4 GG albums with Phil S on board (not that the albums after his departure are slouches either), just love what he brought to the band. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 04:26
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Free Hand and In a Glass House are my two favourite GG albums. So I join the ranks of the frustees (who btw are not in the majority right now), though I don't think that the departure of Phil was an improvement. ------------- 
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Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 06:09
| Without - the first 3 are great, but on the whole they were all a little better from Octopus to Free Hand |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: April 10 2014 at 08:05
| WIZZZZZZZZZZZ |