Prog Polls - Camel - 2nd Division or Premier League?

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Camel - 2nd Division or Premier League?

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Topic: Camel - 2nd Division or Premier League?

Posted By: Certif1ed
Subject: Camel - 2nd Division or Premier League?
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 13:36

So - easy choice!

Rate Camel, and include a little bit about what you do and don't like about the band's music (lets not be personal about the personell!).

You can subdivide into Bardens and post-Bardens era - and maybe list your top 5 Camel albums.

Hey - everyone likes Camel, don't they...?

Replies:

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 14:49

OK I'll have a stab at this:

Premier League:- ELP,Crimson,Tull,Genesis,Yes,Floyd,Rush,Flower Kings,IQ,Spocks Beard,Eloy,Dream Theater, Marillion,Camel,UK,VDGG,Focus,Kayak, PFM,Par Lindh Project.

That's 20 bands by my reckoning.

ELP are Arsenal (of course) with Keith Emerson as Thierry Henry,Greg Lake as Sol Campbell and Carl Palmer as Patrick Viera.

Camel are more like an Everton or a Bolton.Not one of the elite but good enough to be Premier division all the same.

Hope I havn't taken this thread too literally

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 14:55

And to stir it further :

whether Barclay James Harvest??

Posted By: raggy
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 15:11

BJH = Wolverhampton Wonderers.

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Now is tomorrow afternoon

Posted By: Rain Dancer
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 16:44

Premier League, i love all their albums specially concept ones like stationary traveller and snowgoose, imagine you compose a whole album inspired from a book !

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Never let go

Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 17:08

Raggy,

I thought the Wanderers famous forward line was

Barclay James Wakeman Wink

Posted By: Aquarius
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 00:56

Camel has a couple of great albums and some weaker ones.

I like Andy's guitarplaying a lot. Most of the music doesn't sound too complicated , but very emotional. I have a slight problem with the vocals though. They often sound a bit dull.

As for rating them I'd say: 1st devision

Posted By: Marcelo
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 03:21

I'm a Camel hooligan, but I must recognize that in the Premier League only Genesis, Yes, KC, PF and ELP can play. BTW... is there anybody here that can explain me why Rattin was kicked off in the match England-Argentina, World Cup 1966?

Posted By: John Hicks
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 11:01

Premier

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Posted By: Hammar
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 08:19

I do not rate them in the same league as ELP, KC, Gentle Giant ,Yes, Genesis, PFM, etc. But, they are often in the play-offs in 1.division.

Posted By: ummagumma08
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 08:42

Camel was my first experience with prog rock (besides Pink Floyd), I was absolutely blown away by the strong melodies on The Snow Goose.

Albums like Camel, Mirage, Moonmadness & Rain Dances are great as well. With albums like these Camel are absolute worthy in Premier League. I don't like the more recent recordings though. Nude perhaps is somewhat alright. The Single Factor is a disaster.

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 12:40

Marcelo wrote:

I'm a Camel hooligan, but I must recognize that in the Premier League only Genesis, Yes, KC, PF and ELP can play. BTW... is there anybody here that can explain me why Rattin was kicked off in the match England-Argentina, World Cup 1966?

Was that the team that England manager Sir Alf Ramsay labelled as 'Animals'?? (or maybe it was Uruguay?) I presume by 'Kicked Off' you mean ''sent off''? I would assume for tackling that involved going for the man rather than the ball.

Posted By: Marcelo
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 13:17

richardh wrote:

Mr. Ramsay, surely, never enjoyed Camel.

Posted By: The Visitor
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 20:54

Their 4 or 5 first albums are genius.

The middle of their carreir is way weaker...

Their last albums (4) Wink, Rajaz, Harbour ans Dust... Are all 4 precious albums to me. Very touching music. Andy Latimer has more feeling in his solos than Guilmour.

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I Will Always Find You

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 02:51

Marcelo wrote:

richardh wrote:

Mr. Ramsay, surely, never enjoyed Camel.

Can't be sure of that

Posted By: Radioactive Toy
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 08:02

If you're not into Camel, you're not my friend!" CAMEL is the ultimate prog rock band - has always been, and will probably always be!

- Mikael Akerfelt

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Reed's failed joke counter:
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R.I.P. You could have reached infinity....

Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 08:06

Oh No...this thread reminds me of what happened yesterday...my team Eintracht Frankfurt (I'm a fan and active supporter, it's a kind of religion to me) relegated to the second league

aaahhhh....

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear...
George Orwell

Posted By: Hammar
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 11:09

diddy wrote:

Oh No...this thread reminds me of what happened yesterday...my team Eintracht Frankfurt (I'm a fan and active supporter, it's a kind of religion to me) relegated to the second league

aaahhhh....

Cheer up!! They'll be back next year!! Listen to some happy (?!!) prog..

Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 11:37

Just noticed that "Scottish Division" appears below "Schoolboy league". Is that supposed to be funny? Angry

Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 11:54

Easy Livin wrote:

Just noticed that "Scottish Division" appears below "Schoolboy league". Is that supposed to be funny? Angry

I think he's refering to the level of alcohol consumption of scottish football fans and students during spring break

Don't get me wrong, but the scots can tolerate a lot of beer, I remember the rangers away game in Stuttgart a few month ago, they devastated nearly the whole stock of beer in the whole city

and where loud as hell (I mean the support during the game)

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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear...
George Orwell

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 14:58

Camel is a band that always gives me problems, most of his albums help me sleep faster than a Valium, but I feel a great respect for them.

Well elaborated music, good production, great sound but simply make me sleep.

They are Premier league, but I wouldn't go to see their games.

Iván

PS: What's the problem with Scottish league? My mom is from Glasgow and love that country

Posted By: Velvetclown
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 03:28

http://www.animationfactory.com/free/animals/camels_variant_page_jerry_camel_walking.html">

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Billy Connolly
Dream Theater
Terry Gilliam
Hagen Quartet
Jethro Tull
Mike Keneally

Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 17:43

No offence meant to my Scottish neighbours - half my family seem to live in Scotland these days.

I placed the choices in that order, because that is the amount of coverage they get on English T.V. compared to the other divisions. It's like when they do the sports roundup on a Sunday, Scottish games are only ever mentioned when someone gets creamed 10-0 or something. Otherwise they doesn't even make the novelty item at the end

Oh - and it seemed amusing at the time, to my evil little mind...

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 21:42

Don't worry Certifi1ed, I was just joking, even though my Mom was born on Glasgow she lives in Perú since she was 1 year old and I'm 100% Peruvian. Also concious of the level of football in Scottland.

Iván

Posted By: Hibou
Date Posted: May 25 2004 at 00:01

The prog scene wouldn't be complete without CAMEL. They're at one end of the spectrum, way opposite the Canterbury league, but they're always winners in my books. I love them, adore them, drool over them ...

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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!

Posted By: DoomHammer
Date Posted: May 25 2004 at 05:42

Hibou wrote:

Agree with that Clap Camel are my arsenal-mans-united Wink

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when i sell my life story, maybe i should write it first and do the living later 'cause life is so much cleaner on the page

Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: May 25 2004 at 15:01

Hi Certif1ed,

A perfectly pausible explanation! Wink

I have to confess I had a pop in one of my reviews at the number of times we are subjected to seeing that goal in 1966 (no not the one which didn't cross the line, the other one, you know, "they think..." and all that). I was comparing the number of times its (still) shown with the number of Rick Wakeman releases!

Posted By: Olympus
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 03:36

yes they are awsome premiers.

This is cool...

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"Let's get the hell away from this Eerie-ass piece of work so we can get on with the rest of our eerie-ass day"

Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 07:03

CHAMPIONS' LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 07:58

richardh wrote:

OK I'll have a stab at this:

Premier League:- ELP,Crimson,Tull,Genesis,Yes,Floyd,Rush,Flower Kings,IQ,Spocks Beard,Eloy,Dream Theater, Marillion,Camel,UK,VDGG,Focus,Kayak, PFM,Par Lindh Project.

That's 20 bands by my reckoning.

ELP are Arsenal (of course) with Keith Emerson as Thierry Henry,Greg Lake as Sol Campbell and Carl Palmer as Patrick Viera.

Camel are more like an Everton or a Bolton.Not one of the elite but good enough to be Premier division all the same.

Hope I havn't taken this thread too literally

Bad news - Arsenal have sold Viera!

I love Camel, but they're not quite in the same league as the Yes' and Genesis' of this word. I would agree they're more Bolton (not Everton so far this season).

Damn, I've only just realised this is a really old thread.

Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 12:15

Camel are undoubtedly 'premier league' for me- they can easily take their place amongst the greats, and I'm glad the majority agree with me. They are probably my third favourite band ever, after Genesis and Uriah Heep.

I love pretty much all of the albums they've done- even if 'Camel' is a bit tentative compared to what came later, and 'Breathless' and 'I Can See Your House...' are a little poppier than most prog albums. They have an ability to convey genuine atmosphere with their ethereal soundscapes.

My top 5:

1- Moonmadness

2- The Snow Goose

3- Mirage

4- Nude

5- I Can See Your House From Here

Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 12:59

richardh wrote:

ELP are Arsenal

I thought you liked ELP.

Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:33

A solid first division side, though they enjoyed a brief promotion circa Moonmadness, only to be relegated again circa I Can See Your House From Here.

The great thing about Camel (at least in the Bardens era) is that although they never recorded anything as memorable as CTTE, they also never overplayed their hand with a grand folly like TFTO. The Bardens era Camel albums are a good deal more consistent than many of their premier league contemporaries. Top notch craftsmanship rather than fine art, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom

Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 17:48

Of course premier league!!

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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman

Posted By: NetsNJFan
Date Posted: September 28 2005 at 18:50

1st Division (my premier leage is only Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Floyd, Tull)

They are 1st division along with GG (who could be first), VdGG, Caravan, Egg, Rush, Focus, Renaissance

NOT TOO SHABBY!

my top 5

Mirage
Moonmadness
The Snow Goose
I Can See Your House From Here
Camel

truly excellent band

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Posted By: magog
Date Posted: September 29 2005 at 10:19

richardh wrote:

ELP are Arsenal (of course) with Keith Emerson as Thierry Henry,Greg Lake as Sol Campbell and Carl Palmer as Patrick Viera.

Unfortunately for you Vieira doesn't play in Arsenal anymore (Now he's in Juventus...)
Camel: Champions League

Posted By: DACE
Date Posted: September 29 2005 at 11:40

Camel were one of the most fantastic prog bands ever!!! Well, let's explain this a bit... From "Camel" to "Breathless" (the Bardens period) they were one of the best, from then on, a very boring band, to be honest.

Posted By: magog
Date Posted: September 29 2005 at 13:00

richardh wrote:

ELP are Arsenal (of course) with Keith Emerson as Thierry Henry,Greg Lake as Sol Campbell and Carl Palmer as Patrick Viera.

It's not my fault but P.Vieira doesn't play in Arsenal anymore (unfortunately Juventus...)
Anyway, Camel:Champions League!

Posted By: eduardossc
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 08:47

Camel is a fine, innocent soft band. I used to think their music was ambiental prog for the elevator, the waiting room and supermarkets. Then I gave them a brake and put close attention to "Mirage". I discovered the same band with those childish and simplistic tones, but this time they turned out to be pleasant and entertaining. I really enjoyed every second of the album. I also discovered that when they try, they can make very interesting instrumentals. I wouldn´t place them at the same level as Crimson, YES, Genesis. Camel is some stairs under these.

However, it really doesn´t matter because they can make you have a great time with almost any of their albums. Very entertaining ¡¡

Posted By: frippertronik
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 14:37

the first 4 camel albums (camel, mirage, the snow goose, moonmadness) are masterpieces of prog, and it is enough to say that camel is one of the most important bands of prog music.

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a plague of lighthouse keepers

Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 15:26

Premier league all the way. Camel is also one of the most consistent and prolific prog bands in the history of prog, almost all the albums are great and although they've evolved they still maintain their progginess. I would find it hard to argue the theory that the overall ratings of Camel albums as a whole are higher than any other prog band on this site except for maybe GG, who knows maybe one day I'll do the math.

Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 15:38

Definitely Premiership, they did marvellous things especially when both Bardens and Collins were in the band - the kind of joining electronics and acoustic wind instruments like VDGG did - and beatiful guitar of Andy and last but not least Richard Sinclair

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yet you still have time!

Posted By: Tony Fisher
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 16:34

Premier League?

FAR better than that.

EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS!!!!!!

WORLD CUP WINNERS!!!!!!

THE BEST!!!!!!!!

(Am I getting my message across clearly????)

Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: October 13 2005 at 16:58

Tony Fisher wrote:

Premier League?

FAR better than that.

EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS!!!!!!

WORLD CUP WINNERS!!!!!!

THE BEST!!!!!!!!

(Am I getting my message across clearly????)

of course, Camel Rulezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

did i get my message across

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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT

Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 04:08

Well, in most leagues there's room for about 18 teams, right? Maybe the Scottich league is an exception, but even then Camel would be in it. For me:

1. Real Yes

2. AC Genesis

3. FC ELP

4. Inter Camel

5. Sporting Gentle Giant

6. Dynamo King Crimson

7. Pink Floyd United

8. U.K. Rangers

9. Inter Caravan

10. Lokomotiv Van der Graaf Generator

Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 04:16

Oh, and my Camel top 5:

1. Nude

2. A Live Record (great compilation of the Mirage, Snow Goose, Moonmadness and Rain Dances period, mind you, the version with all the bonus tracks)

3. The Single Factor

4. Stationary Traveller

5. Dust And Dreams

Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: October 14 2005 at 06:21

When they came out, we all found Camel a bit interesting, especially Mirage, but few people took them as seriously as ELP, Tull, Yes or Genesis. The general opinion was that they sound very good, the music is pleasant but not especially challenging, "Snow Goose" had some very bright moments, and after that it went downhill fast. I couldn't place them in the big leagues, because they didn't CREATE an innovative sound, but utilized the forms that the others had pioneered, and made it a bit more smooth and palatable to the broader masses. It's great if you like them and find them inspiring, but to give them the same credit as the great innovators of that era would be unjust.

Posted By: krauthead
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 18:06

Premier League

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*Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond

Posted By: chessman
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 18:16

Distinctly second division! I have heard many Camel songs, off various albums, and I own both the remastered versions of Mirage and Moonmadness (the latter being the better of the two). I don't mind having a listen now and again, but I find their lyrics on such tracks as lady Fantasy, total rubbish. Vocally they are very weak, whilst musically, their playing is adequate, but no more. Pleasant, non threatening music, but nothing earth-shatteringly important. Admittedly better than ELP or Dream Theater, but that doesn't say much!

Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 14:40

They are on premier league.

If they don't, they're one of the top promotion candidates.

P:S:

What a great fight for champion that would be with these bands, and another great fight in the relegation zone.

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 28 2007 at 18:00

Camel are great. It's disappointing that Breathless doesn't get much mention. It's a very good album. Moonmadness, Raindances, Breathless, Camel and Nude are my fave Camel albums. I think Mirage and Snowgoose are a bit overrated and just miss out of Camels best 5 albums. But Camel are are one of my Big 5 prog bands which also include Jethro tull, Gentle giant, Yes and Genesis

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 01:15

2nd or 3rd league, pretty non offensive non challenging music that rode the tide of prog than rather define it, I always have a problem with Camel being so over rated when great groups like Henry Cow and Faust get barely a mention.
As far as I'm concerned the Snowgoose sounds more like a covers album than anything original, while Moonmadness just rode the tide. Come on people! there are far more important and innovative bands out there, hasn't it occured to you why Camel being accessible (unlike Henry Cow Faust etc) never made it big?
They were a second to third tier prog band for a reason they never dared challenge the genre like RIO, Yes (remeber Tales and Relayer) or King Crimson, Camel just played it safe.

Posted By: P.H.P.
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 01:32

What??

Camel is Premier League, no question!

Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 05:05

Probably premier league, a great band.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 05:26

I love it when people dig up these old polls...

Camel? you have to be kidding me.. Premier League? 2nd Division easy. Just like VDGG.. just because you like them doesn't mean you should delude yourself. Much like Football... the Premier League are groups that even the non-fan knows of and may have even heard.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 06:15

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

2nd or 3rd league, pretty non offensive non challenging music that rode the tide of prog than rather define it, I always have a problem with Camel being so over rated when great groups like Henry Cow and Faust get barely a mention.
As far as I'm concerned the Snowgoose sounds more like a covers album than anything original, while Moonmadness just rode the tide. Come on people! there are far more important and innovative bands out there, hasn't it occured to you why Camel being accessible (unlike Henry Cow Faust etc) never made it big?
They were a second to third tier prog band for a reason they never dared challenge the genre like RIO, Yes (remeber Tales and Relayer) or King Crimson, Camel just played it safe.

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 06:18

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 06:40

Camel were bigger than Gabriel's Genesis in the early/mid 70's. They were playing similar size venues but Camel had better chart success both in the UK & USA, so I guess they are premier league? Remeber Genesis only made premier league with Trick of the Tale and after.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 06:42

Tales wrote:

Camel were bigger than Gabriel's Genesis in the early/mid 70's. They were playing similar size venues but Camel had better chart success both in the UK & USA, so I guess they are premier league? Remeber Genesis only made premier league with Trick of the Tale and after.

I'll leave those who actually give a sh*t about Genesis to correct the inaccuracies in that LOL

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 10:22

micky wrote:

I'll leave those who actually give a sh*t about Genesis to correct the inaccuracies in that LOL

Genesis didn't chart in the USA until 'Trick of the Tale'. Camel charted with 'Snowgoose'. Genesis could only fill universities & City Halls in England as a package tour with Lindisfarne & other Chrysalis label mates. Camel filled them as headliners. Genesis had to cancel 'The Lamb' tour due to poor attendencies. Camel never had to cancel a tour for those reasons.

Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 10:25

To my perception, YES were the quintessential Premier League classic prog band: the crowd seen on the Live at QPR DVD (1975) is the biggest one I've ever seen gathered for a prog act (I think there were at least 50000 people). Anyone who can compare to that is Premier League.

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"PA's own GI Joe!"

Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 10:40

andu wrote:

To my perception, YES were the quintessential Premier League classic prog band: the crown seen on the Live at QPR DVD (1975) is the biggest one I've ever seen gathered for a prog act (I think there were at least 50000 people). Anyone who can compare to that is Premier League.

Only ELP & Pink Floyd could compete with that. In essence, the premier league only consisted of three bands.

1.YES

2.ELP

3.PINK FLOYD

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 10:45

Tales wrote:

Only ELP & Pink Floyd could compete with that. In essence, the premier league only consisted of three bands.

1.YES

2.ELP

3.PINK FLOYD

the elite of the elite... LOL

throw in King Crimson and Tull... you have it. The Premier League of prog. The big 5...everyone else.. is in a lesser division.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Tales
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 11:09

micky wrote:

Tales wrote:

Only ELP & Pink Floyd could compete with that. In essence, the premier league only consisted of three bands.

1.YES

2.ELP

3.PINK FLOYD

the elite of the elite... LOL

throw in King Crimson and Tull... you have it. The Premier League of prog. The big 5...everyone else.. is in a lesser division.

Correct

Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 11:15

They are right in there....better then some of the giants in my opinion. Amazing band.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 13:08

ProgBagel wrote:

They are right in there....better then some of the giants in my opinion. Amazing band.

out of curiouslity ....and I'd love to know... just how do you see them better. At what?

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:10

Tales wrote:

micky wrote:

I'll leave those who actually give a sh*t about Genesis to correct the inaccuracies in that LOL

Actually Selling England by the Pound was Genesis's first US chart, and it went no#3 in the UK while Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot both made it into the top 20 and this is before they made it big!, higher charting than anything Camel ever did, Snowgoose was about #27 in the UK chart, their biggest success.

Posted By: Pawned Heart
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:21

It's not really fair to compare Camel to Yes and Genesis. Not because the latter two are better, but because Camel plays a distinctly different kind of music. Camel doesn't use grandiose arrangements or noodling solos, nor do they dress up as flowers or wear capes. They have a very subtle style which connects ethereally to the listener. Their genius and complexity is somewhat cloaked by the fact that their music progresses so naturally, in contrast to songs like Supper's Ready and Karn Evil 9, which are quite frankly a bunch of songs strung together. I understand that Camel have never composed a song that long, but this is part of my point. They knew the limitations of the music, and how and when it should progress and when it should end.
The only real problem I've heard people have about Camel's music is the vocals. Luckily, not only do Camel's live albums sound a heck of a lot better lyrically, but by their later albums Latimer's voice has matured greatly.
Moving on, there are several reasons why Camel definitely deserves to be in the Premier League.
First of all, they had a dedication to the progressive spirit. Yes, Genesis, and Jethro Tull legitimately started getting worse in the 80s. ELP had toileted themselves with Works Vol. 1, and even bands like Gentle Giant and Van der Graaf Generator decreased the quality of their output and disbanded. Camel, however, did no such thing. Right now you may be screaming look at The Single Factor! Look at I Can See Your House From Here! Have you heard Remote Romance??? But on all those albums, Camel managed to stick on at least one progressive track despite huge pressures from the record companies. Songs like Ice, Echoes, and Sasquatch are just as good as their main 70s output. They even managed to record a fairly good album, Stationary Traveler, in the heart of that hellhole we call the 80s, and Nude, which is an incredible album.
After they disbanded in the Mid 80s, due largely to legal problems, Latimer began composing a new progressive album and decided to set up their own record company for complete creative freedom. The results? Dust and Dreams, Harbor of Tears, Rajaz, and A Nod and a Wink.
That being said, a lot of people shoot down Camel as not being innovative. Sure, they may not have used new time signatures or instruments, but they possess a certain quality not present elsewhere. Maybe its the emotion Latimer pours out with every note on his guitar, maybe its Barden's nonchalant keyboard melodies, or how seamlessly they arrange their music. These may not be innovative in an objective, tangible sense but I have not found any other band that does these things better than Camel.
If that doesn't convince you, look no farther than The Snow Goose. I challenge you to find an all instrumental concept album based on a children's book, heck, any album that is anything like it and of anywhere near the same caliber. Even if you can do that, show me that it had an outstanding presence on the charts. There is simply no other record like it.
This is a band that you can love at first listen, and love even more after each time you hit play. Camel is infectious, and I strongly believe anyone who doesn't love them is trying not to like 'em. They exude a natural vibe that is just so..... incredible. There is nothing that comes close to the sensual experience of listening to a Camel record.

There is no doubt in my mind that Camel is a premier band on the same level as Genesis, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, or any other band. You can't call them the best symphonic band, because they're not quite symphonic prog. Nor are they Canterbury, or even space rock. There is just something inexplicable about the molding together of these genres with the personality and musicianship of the band that gives us something very special.

[/rant]

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What I see I know is real, what I touch I know I feel
If I don't care for what you say, it won't mean much to me today

http://www.proga

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:27

Pawned Heart wrote:

It's not really fair to compare Camel to Yes and Genesis. Not because the latter two are better, but because Camel plays a distinctly different kind of music. Camel doesn't use grandiose arrangements or noodling solos, nor do they dress up as flowers or wear capes. They have a very subtle style which connects ethereally to the listener. Their genius and complexity is somewhat cloaked by the fact that their music progresses so naturally, in contrast to songs like Supper's Ready and Karn Evil 9, which are quite frankly a bunch of songs strung together. I understand that Camel have never composed a song that long, but this is part of my point. They knew the limitations of the music, and how and when it should progress and when it should end.
The only real problem I've heard people have about Camel's music is the vocals. Luckily, not only do Camel's live albums sound a heck of a lot better lyrically, but by their later albums Latimer's voice has matured greatly.
Moving on, there are several reasons why Camel definitely deserves to be in the Premier League.
First of all, they had a dedication to the progressive spirit. Yes, Genesis, and Jethro Tull legitimately started getting worse in the 80s. ELP had toileted themselves with Works Vol. 1, and even bands like Gentle Giant and Van der Graaf Generator decreased the quality of their output and disbanded. Camel, however, did no such thing. Right now you may be screaming look at The Single Factor! Look at I Can See Your House From Here! Have you heard Remote Romance??? But on all those albums, Camel managed to stick on at least one progressive track despite huge pressures from the record companies. Songs like Ice, Echoes, and Sasquatch are just as good as their main 70s output. They even managed to record a fairly good album, Stationary Traveler, in the heart of that hellhole we call the 80s, and Nude, which is an incredible album.
After they disbanded in the Mid 80s, due largely to legal problems, Latimer began composing a new progressive album and decided to set up their own record company for complete creative freedom. The results? Dust and Dreams, Harbor of Tears, Rajaz, and A Nod and a Wink.
That being said, a lot of people shoot down Camel as not being innovative. Sure, they may not have used new time signatures or instruments, but they possess a certain quality not present elsewhere. Maybe its the emotion Latimer pours out with every note on his guitar, maybe its Barden's nonchalant keyboard melodies, or how seamlessly they arrange their music. These may not be innovative in an objective, tangible sense but I have not found any other band that does these things better than Camel.
If that doesn't convince you, look no farther than The Snow Goose. I challenge you to find an all instrumental concept album based on a children's book, heck, any album that is anything like it and of anywhere near the same caliber. Even if you can do that, show me that it had an outstanding presence on the charts. There is simply no other record like it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM THEIR ARE LOADS OF ALBUMS LIKE THAT ONE AND CAMEL RIPPED OFF EVERYONE, AS FOR EMOTION? I'D CALL IT SYRUP, HACKETT, FRIPP, GILMOUR AND HOWE HAD MORE EMOTION ON THEIR LITTLE FINGER THAN LATIMAR. IMO LATIMAR JUST COMPOSED CONTRIVED SYRUP.
This is a band that you can love at first listen, and love even more after each time you hit play. Camel is infectious, and I strongly believe anyone who doesn't love them is trying not to like 'em. They exude a natural vibe that is just so..... incredible. There is nothing that comes close to the sensual experience of listening to a Camel record.

There is no doubt in my mind that Camel is a premier band on the same level as Genesis, Yes, ELP, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, or any other band. You can't call them the best symphonic band, because they're not quite symphonic prog. Nor are they Canterbury, or even space rock. There is just something inexplicable about the molding together of these genres with the personality and musicianship of the band that gives us something very special.

[/rant]

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:28

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

I'm glad someone sees sense in this as well. Smile

Posted By: P.H.P.
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 16:36

micky wrote:

Tales wrote:

Only ELP & Pink Floyd could compete with that. In essence, the premier league only consisted of three bands.

1.YES

2.ELP

3.PINK FLOYD

the elite of the elite... LOL

throw in King Crimson and Tull... you have it. The Premier League of prog. The big 5...everyone else.. is in a lesser division.

And where's Genesis??? Confused

that would be a pretty unaccurate list if you don't include them...

just like you said, not only because you don't like them you can take them out of the "premier league of Prog"... Disapprove

the shame, the shame, micky. Unhappy

EDIT: Wait for Iván to see that... LOL

Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 17:00

Some real snobbery on show here, IMHO. I'm utterly baffled as to why Camel are being compared unfavourably to Henry Cow and Faust; there's nothing in common between them, and those bands are a very acquired taste. Surely even their most devout fans must admit that (I do quite like Faust, though). There's an unfortunate trait amongst some that the most difficult music is somehow 'better' and 'more important', which is patronising, IMHO. I'm not saying it's inferior, either; it's apples and oranges, making the comparisons rather fatuous, frankly. It is possible to like, say, Can, Amon Duul II, King Crimson, Soft Machine and Faust as much as Camel, Barclay James Harvest and neo-prog.

I love Camel, personally. They get unfairly penalised because they didn't form in the late 60s, IMHO. In terms of songcraft, I think they are a hell of a lot better than some more recent, highly-rated symphonic prog (in particular) albums I've encountered, too. They had a big influence on neo-prog too, IMHO (alongside Genesis I think they are the biggest influence); for some people that's not a good thing but there we go. I could listen to Camel and know instantly it was them; I don't find them as derivative as some seem to. Would I rank them with Genesis and Yes? Not necessarily, but then I don't need to place the bands I love in tables. All I know is, I have fewer gripes with Camel's complete back catalogue; there are a mere handful of songs I dislike, and that's enough for me.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 17:11

P.H.P. wrote:

micky wrote:

Tales wrote:

Only ELP & Pink Floyd could compete with that. In essence, the premier league only consisted of three bands.

1.YES

2.ELP

3.PINK FLOYD

the elite of the elite... LOL

throw in King Crimson and Tull... you have it. The Premier League of prog. The big 5...everyone else.. is in a lesser division.

And where's Genesis??? Confused

that would be a pretty unaccurate list if you don't include them...

just like you said, not only because you don't like them you can take them out of the "premier league of Prog"... Disapprove

the shame, the shame, micky. Unhappy

EDIT: Wait for Iván to see that... LOL

hahahha.. an oversight.. I noticed it when I posted... was curious who would point it out. Of course they belong there... they may not have had the chops or the success of the others.. .but the music was... well others think... was as good as the others and influence wise ..right with the very top of the premier league.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 17:56

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Just because Yes and Genesis started before Camel doesn't mean they are better. Camels songs are are all their own ideas and their first 8 year period is probably better than the first 8 years of Yes. I don't believe in boundaries being broken if they don't sound that great. Someone could fart on a recording and it would be considered breaking boundaries. There's large parts of Relayer that sound like the band is running out of ideas. I only really rate the first 5 minutesof gates highly, but the remainder of that song is just filler imo. I don't believe prog is about breaking boundaries, it's just about mixing rock with jazz or classical and being clever about it. That style of music did break boundaries in the late 60s though.

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 18:44

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

hell brother... I don't argue musical taste.. if you think Camel was a better group than Yes.. more power to you. But you missed my point competely.... better or best has nothing to do with it... Magma ... M.O. ... Zappa...could be argued to be better bands. The point is those bands who are generally recognized to be the heavies of prog.. instant name recognition.. those who defined the genre.. and if you think Camel did... then you live on another plane of existence from the rest of us.. and my cellphone doesn't have that good of coverage. LOL

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 19:56

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Just because Yes and Genesis started before Camel doesn't mean they are better. I never said the earlier the better, Univers Zero formed after Camel and they were broke more ground Camels songs are are all their own ideas and their first 8 year period is probably better than the first 8 years of Yes. I don't believe in boundaries being broken if they don't sound that great. Someone could fart on a recording and it would be considered breaking boundaries. There's large parts of Relayer that sound like the band is running out of ideas. I only really rate the first 5 minutesof gates highly, but the remainder of that song is just filler imo. I don't believe prog is about breaking boundaries, it's just about mixing rock with jazz or classical and being clever about it. That style of music did break boundaries in the late 60s though. The whole purpose of progressive rock is to break ground and make your own idiosyncratic sound thats where the term "PROGRESSIVE" came from.

Again I agree with you Micky, I would also add that If a band doesn't break ground that means they're not very original; my rationale is that a good a band is defined if they have their own voice, an original voice is created by breaking ground, therefore if a band doesn't break ground they're not original; that is the big problem facing rock today and why many don't consider it any good, whats the point writing your own songs if they're not going to break ground and therefore be original. This is also precisely the problem with Cmael they are not original, so why rate them so highly if you consider them as good as Genesis, then you must equate tribute bands on the same level, since they're pretty much doing what Camel does; copy the better bands.

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 20:08

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Popularity doesn't describe the best music. Any progger should know that

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 20:14

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

As for your argument about the most popular band isn't necessary the best ;Raindance2007, thats the problem with Camel, they have too much attention and popularity for a second, or third rate band. Wink

Get some real prog, check out Mike Oldfield and Caravan as well as Curved Air, and non prog - The Who, Camel ripped off all thoise bands - thats why I think the Snowgoose is a covers album, I'm sure it should be placed under tributes or compilations.

Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 20:23

2 CD's sum up Camel for me "Snow Goose" and "Moonmadness", for those 2 that would make them premiere in any league.

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 22:48

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 22:56

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Just listen to those albums and you'll see what I mean, Gray and Pinks epic 12 feet underground was ripped off by Camel in the Snowgoose, while some of Moonmadness synth pieces are identical to the Who's -Who's next. Whether you accept it or not doesn't bother me, but Camel did rip off these bands and are nothing special. Listen to something unique, have you heard Henry Cow - In praise of Learning, now that is progressive.

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:11

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:14

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:15

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

QUOTE PYRAMID LOL!

Seriously, Camel is pretty cliche. The music is solid, but I'd say second tier. I'll take a groundbreaking band over one of those hey-look-its-another-band-that-sounds-like-yes-and-genesis bands any day.

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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:17

rileydog22 wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Right on brother! Clap

Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:26

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

lol. Who's next is just an average rock album. Moonamdness sounds absolutely nothing like it and is a much better album too

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:30

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

lol. Who's next is just an average rock album. Moonamdness sounds absolutely nothing like it and is a much better album too

Just to them, and the Caravan one I mentioned as well as some Mike Oldfield, another reviewer did say they ripped off Curved Air, Rileydog is right Camel is just a recording of cliches and thats why they're not great, they fit more inline with bands like Triumverant (which was a little too similar to ELP), and Starcastle (a little too similar to Yes).
Enjoy Camel, but just don't try and tell me that they are anything special, because they're not.

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:30

Raindance, did you even read his post? He said there was a SYNTH LINE IN COMMON, not that the whole albums sound alike.

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Posted By: raindance2007
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:34

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

lol. Who's next is just an average rock album. Moonamdness sounds absolutely nothing like it and is a much better album too

1973-1981 Camel sound nothing like other prog bands apart from maybe 2 songs which remind me a bit of Floyd. Other than that they are a much better band than Floyd. Latimer is probably my fave guitarist and the bands vocals are fine. I find Gabriel to be annoying vocalist at times though. Rough voice and struggles to sing high notes, very strange lyrics

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:36

By the late seventies the reason that Camel didn't sound like any other prog band was because they were no longer prog. In the early-mid seventies they were good, but they were just a mix of Focus, Genesis, and a little bit of Yes.

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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:36

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

lol. Who's next is just an average rock album. Moonamdness sounds absolutely nothing like it and is a much better album too

Bargain is the song they ripped off the Who on, listen to that one Moonmadness its identical to one on Who's Next, listen to much more prog and you'll hear for yourself how average Camel is.

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:38

Sorry for breaking the quote pyramid. I'll hop back on next time I need to post, cause it really makes everything easier to read. Ermm

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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:40

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

micky wrote:

raindance2007 wrote:

[QUOTE=Cheesecakemouse] 2nd or 3rd league, pretty non offensive non challenging music that rode the tide of prog than rather define it, I always have a problem with Camel being so over rated when great groups like Henry Cow and Faust get barely a mention.
As far as I'm concerned the Snowgoose sounds more like a covers album than anything original, while Moonmadness just rode the tide. Come on people! there are far more important and innovative bands out there, hasn't it occured to you why Camel being accessible (unlike Henry Cow Faust etc) never made it big?
They were a second to third tier prog band for a reason they never dared challenge the genre like RIO, Yes (remeber Tales and Relayer) or King Crimson, Camel just played it safe.

I'd take Moonmadness anyday over Relayer. The only Crimson album that matches Moonmadness would be Posiedon imo. None of the Wetton albums are as good

you are talking apples to his oranges.... love the albums if you want... but Cheesy is dead on. There are those who broke ground and defined prog.. and those that rode the coattails

Camel didnt rip off anyone. Caravan only have 1 strong album-Grey and Pink

Moonmadness sounds nothing like the who. I don't even like the Who much at all. Moonmadness is one of the great prog albums

Just compare the sytnth lines on the two albums, Moonmadness has one that is a direct rip off from Who's next Wink

lol. Who's next is just an average rock album. Moonamdness sounds absolutely nothing like it and is a much better album too

Bargain is the song they ripped off the Who on, listen to that one Moonmadness its identical to one on Who's Next, listen to much more prog and you'll hear for yourself how average Camel is.
Actually try Steve Hackett's Voyage of the Acolye that album is everything that Camel tried to be and imitate.

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:43

Damn...you went as far as self-quoting to maintain the quote pyramid. You guys are determined to make this thread difficult to read, aren't you?

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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 29 2007 at 23:44

rileydog22 wrote:

Damn...you went as far as self-quoting to maintain the quote pyramid. You guys are determined to make this thread difficult to read, aren't you?

I had more to add
I've fixed it so its no longer appears as a self quote

Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 04:02

This site turned me onto Camel, and for that I'm grateful. As to which tier do I think they belong...... not premier, but an honorable mention is deserved.

Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 04:16

Remember, you're talking to the guy who says all prog post 1983 is boring... Wink

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"PA's own GI Joe!"

Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 04:38

andu wrote:

Remember, you're talking to the guy who says all prog post 1983 is boring... Wink

Who me?

no I think Mars Volta, Radiohead and some post rock is good, just the 70s were the golden years, anyway thats a digression. Smile

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 04:44

though I'm not a big Camel fan, I see how tight and skilled they were.. not as ambitious as Yes or Rush but a very refined group

Posted By: andu
Date Posted: September 30 2007 at 04:47

Cheesecakemouse wrote:

andu wrote:

Remember, you're talking to the guy who says all prog post 1983 is boring... Wink

Who me?

no I think Mars Volta, Radiohead and some post rock is good, just the 70s were the golden years, anyway thats a digression. Smile

No, I'm talking about this: forum_posts.asp?TID=42122 - Modern prog is boring mainly

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"PA's own GI Joe!"