Not much point voting in this poll, where several of those albums are debatable as "proto-prog". With a start date of progressive rock generally agreed at 1968, some of those albums have now been long been called "progressive rock" without need of the prefix. In addition there are glaring omissions - where's the Vanilla Fudge, the Touch etc. - and from some of the albums listed, the Electric Prunes "Mass" could almost be justified.   Soft Machine's "Volume 2", has the band in transition between  straight prog rock and jazz rock; try the first Machine studio album instead with its mix of psychedelia and what might be called proto-prog.  Machine's "Live At The Paradiso", as a 3-piece and playing music from "Volume 2", recorded  approximately two weeks after the studio album was completed, has them sounding more  prog.  

Please take more care when constructing these polls - if you are serious about them?

There's no need to justify my posts and/or polls because I express my personal opinion that can be different to other member's, but have to answer two or three points.

some of those albums have now been long been called "progressive rock" without need of the prefix.

If you read the title of the poll it says Prog/Proto Prog, the slash stands for the word or, because some of this albums are considred progressive while others don't.

In addition there are glaring omissions - where's the Vanilla Fudge, the Touch etc. - and from some of the albums listed, the Electric Prunes "Mass" could almost be justified.   Soft Machine's "Volume 2", has the band in transition between  straight prog rock and jazz rock;

I don't know if you noticed there are only 20 slots for a poll, my honest opinion is that all the albums I mention are influencial in the history of progressive rock, but I also say: "I know everybody will have a favorite not included (which you can mention in a post)"

Please take more care when constructing these polls - if you are serious about them?

I'm always serious in everything I do,if you check any Progressive Enciclopedia like Gibraltar, you'll find all the bands and albums I include are mentioned, even Bonzo Dog Band, the only exception is Their Satanic Majesties Request, which I believe is a great Psychedelic and proto prog release.

There's no need for hard words, because we all are entitled to our personal opinions which can and must be different, if we all agree in everything there's no point for a discussion forum.

Iván

Getting back to the subject at hand...

I would have a hard time accepting anything other than Revolver (1966), Sgt. Pepper (1967) and Magical Mystery Tour (1967) as the original "proto-prog" albums.  At least two songs on Revolver ("Think for Yourself" and "Tomorrow Never Knows"; possibly even "She Said She Said") are already "proto-prog," and Pepper is essentially a complete "proto-prog" album.  By MMT - especially "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "I Am The Walrus" (and, possibly, "Blue Jay Way") - The Beatles were solidly "proto-prog."

It is also important to note that if we generally accept Piper (1968), Days of Future Past (1968) and In The Court (1970) as the first truly, fully "prog" albums (or even the most "influential"), it is important to note that Floyd "honors" Pepper (albeit begrudgingly) as an influence, The Moody Blues overtly note Pepper as a primary influence, and Fripp has commented many times on the influence of Pepper on "everyone."

Albums (or, more accurately, particular songs on albums) by Vanilla Fudge, The Electric Prunes, Procol Harum, etc. notwithstanding, The Beatles stand solidly at the forefront of what became the prog movement.

maani wrote: Albums (or, more accurately, particular songs on albums) by Vanilla Fudge, The Electric Prunes, Procol Harum, etc. notwithstanding, The Beatles stand solidly at the forefront of what became the prog movement.

Maani is completely right. one cannot forget the influence the Haight-Ashbury scene had on the budding genre that was to become prog. One can certainly hear peculiar qualities that might be considered 'progressive' in bands such as The Byrds, The Grateful Dead, and others.

And after all, isnt LSD the foundation of all decent music during that period?

Sgt. pepper was certainly an influence on Pink Floyd, but so was 'Piper' on The Beatles! The 2 albums were recorded at the same time in the same studio, and both were released in the summer of '67. Also, McCartney himself saw the Floyd perform as early as 1966. Lennon, too saw the Floyd live many times in '67. So I think he latter day Beatles owe as much to Floyd as Floyd to The Beatles. They clearly influenced each other.

ivan_2068 wrote: There's no need to justify my posts and/or polls because I express my personal opinion that can be different to other member's, but have to answer two or three points. some of those albums have now been long been called "progressive rock" without need of the prefix. If you read the title of the poll it says Prog/Proto Prog, the slash stands for the word or, because some of this albums are considred progressive while others don't. In addition there are glaring omissions - where's the Vanilla Fudge, the Touch etc. - and from some of the albums listed, the Electric Prunes "Mass" could almost be justified.   Soft Machine's "Volume 2", has the band in transition between  straight prog rock and jazz rock; I don't know if you noticed there are only 20 slots for a poll, my honest opinion is that all the albums I mention are influencial in the history of progressive rock, but I also say: "I know everybody will have a favorite not included (which you can mention in a post)" Please take more care when constructing these polls - if you are serious about them? I'm always serious in everything I do,if you check any Progressive Enciclopedia like Gibraltar, you'll find all the bands and albums I include are mentioned, even Bonzo Dog Band, the only exception is Their Satanic Majesties Request, which I believe is a great Psychedelic and proto prog release. There's no need for hard words, because we all are entitled to our personal opinions which can and must be different, if we all agree in everything there's no point for a discussion forum. Iván

Ivan

I think a number of polls run here, while fun, are incomplete and can't be taken seriously. I'm not asking you to justify your particular choice, I am pointing I shan't polling any vote because I think the poll is far from complete - in my humble opinion. That is the prime limitation of a 20 place poll - perhaps instead creating a form e.g.

would eliminate a poll compiler's bias (consious or unconscious), and give  a broader cross section, given support from folks here at Progarchives. Perhaps too the form should be sent to a volunteer at a separate e.mail address set up for this sort of thing. A poll of the resulting top 20 bands/albums could then be compiled on the basis of the broader concensus, with the objective of  producing a Progarchives top 3 or whatever. I've done this for an all time jazz rock top ten and it works if the number of replies are good. You'll note several people elsewhere were critical about the Holdsworthian guitarists poll as being under-representative.

I'm finding  encyclopaedias and other references on the web becoming increasingly unreliable - due to what academics call lack of refereeing. Recently I've found "academic" websites proporting to provide accurate scientific data, but in fact provided some real  nonsense invalidating their credibility -and so I'm forced to tell students to use more traditional and reliable information sources. Encyclopaedias based on subjective opinions and  modern social histories, have to be treated with care. A number of us in the UK, who grew up through the birth of progressive musics, are increasingly worried about the inaccuracies and omissions found in "histories" of progressive rock. The big problem is that no comprehensive critical  history covering prog in general has  been written by anybody wo went through that period in the UK. The books often used as references  are American authored  and rely a lot on 2 and 3rd hand information. Biographies of individual artists or band, range from the fanzine (of the sort "my favourite band can't do no wrong")  to the well researched (e.g. Syd Barrett's biog  "Lost In The Woods"); a biog written about Yes by a well known British journalist, Chris Welch fell between the two because he  let his friendship get between him and making some constructive criticisms. (Welch co-authored a much better biog on Bonzo Dog Do Dah Band's Vivian Stanstall).  However, I know of one pretty well-known British writer who has been thoroughly researching the early days of progressive rock for over last year to redress some of the misinformation - his research has included interviewing people who were there: played the music, sold the music, bought the music, wrote about the music at the time. One thing that comes though, is we now over-complicate what happened in the mid to late 60's, when there were relatively few bands we would now call progressive rock, but lots of bands we would then have said played progressive music - but I've made this point elsewhere on Progarchives. 

Thank you for the clarification of your definitions and I take your point. However, I remain insistent that when Jon Anderson and members of Kansas are quoted in the CD liner notes of the Touch CD issue, about how influential that album was to their music, and the handful of us who bought that album when released in 1969 keep saying it is significant, it is a great shame we seem to be ignored. Hence another reason I won't be voting, is that  such a seminal album, readily meeting your criteria is omitted.

Back to my original point: a serious poll should be comprehensive (or least left to each voter to provide nomination - and I'll be honest I won't fool myself Touch will get in on this basis, alas too few people know their work) or alternatively it is a fun poll , so such issues don't matter.

I think a number of polls run here, while fun, are incomplete and can't be taken seriously. I'm not asking you to justify your particular choice, I am pointing I shan't polling any vote because I think the poll is far from complete - in my humble opinion. That is the prime limitation of a 20 place poll - perhaps instead creating a form e.g.   Band/Artist Album True Prog Proto Prog 1st Choice     Yes/No Yes/No 2nd Choice     Yes/No Yes/No 3rd Choice     Yes/No Yes/No

Can't agree more with you, this kind of votes would be much more fair, because it would leave behind subjectivities and let everyone make his choice.

But sadly I don't know a way to add a database that could help me counting votes, and having done this kind of polls before, I'm sure you'll find at least 200 albums included in the list if many members vote.

alas too few people know their work) or alternatively it is a fun poll , so such issues don't matter

Agree also.

Iván