Hi guys, im new here, and im fairly new to prog too.

I've heard a bit of Dream Theatre and Yes, and i recently bought Queensryche Operation:Mindcrime, and i love it.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some bands/albums i should try. im into the newer kind of prog, like Steve Vai, Liquid Tension (if those are even prog, i wouldnt know, i just love it.)

thanks guys

Newer Prog? There's a lot the choose from!

I would say, please try Porcupine Tree. They are about the best band on the planet at the moment. Kind of remind of Pink Floyd, but also have a Radiohead injection. They mixed that with a bit of Ambient, Metal and acoustic stuff. For a good introduction, listen to the albums Lightbulb Sun and In Absentia.

For a more 'lighter' approach, try Transatlantic. A super supergroup (Portnoy on Drums, btw). They made 2 studio albums, wich are both worth every penny. Future classics with some of the best music of this new decade.

And make sure you have heard Dream Theater's Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a memory and Six degrees of inner turbulence. All four albums are amazing!

Darkprophet:

Welcome to the site.

It sounds like you are into a more "current" sound.  However, you might also want to check out the "grandfathers" of prog - the seminal groups from whom all other groups ultimately sprang.

The eight seminal groups, and the albums I would recommend, are:

King Crimson: In the Court of the Crimson King, Islands, Starless & Bible Black, Red.

Pink Floyd: Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals.

The Moody Blues: A Question of Balance, On the Threshold of a Dream

Genesis: (Peter Gabriel era): Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

Genesis: (Phil Collins era): Trick of the Tail, Wind & Wuthering, And Then There Were Three

Yes: Time and a Word, The Yes Album, Close to the Edge, Going for the One

Gentle Giant: Three Friends, Octopus, In a Glass House, The Power and the Glory, Interview

Jethro Tull: Thick as a Brick, Minstrel in the Gallery

ELP: ELP, Trilogy, Brain Salad Surgery

This is by no means a complete list of even the albums by these groups, and I'm certain other members will challenge my choices, or give you others.

The next (almost up to current) "era" is what we call "neo-prog."  Among the best groups in this category are Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Ark, and a number of non-english-speaking groups, especially from Italy (including PFM, Banco del Mutuo Soccorso, Il Balletto di Bronzo, Museo Rosenbach, Alusa Fallax, Deus ex Machina) and the Nordic countries (Anglagard, Aufklarung, et al).  Probably the best neo-prog group is Marillion, which has had two distinct eras; one led by the singer-songwriter Fish, the other by the singer-songwriter Hogarth.  The best of Fish-era Marillion are probably Misplaced Childhood and Clutching at Straws; of the Hogarth-era, Brave and Afraid of Sunlight.

What you might want to do is take a little time to read some of the reviews of the specific albums mentioned, or of various albums by the various groups.

It's alot, but it's worth it!

Have fun!

You sound as if you like the more guitar driven prog stuff.Rush recent albums aren't too shabby in that respect.Check out 'Counterparts' or the most recent 'Vapor Trails'.

for guitardriven prog try

Symphony X,Threshold, Sun Caged, Opeth, Enchant, Ayreon, or Vanden Plas.

Thanks for all the replies, guys, sure is a big list!

I think Transatlantic and Marillion would be my first purchases. I've also found my dads record collection, which has just about every artist maani named. King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull... heaps more.

I guess I'll lock myself in my room for a while with a few good albums, drive my folks crazy

thanks again guys.

If you like metal-prog-metal/fusion or guitar-oriented instrumental stuff, try :

Jordan Rudess : "Feeding the wheel"

Explorers' Club : "Major impacts"

Steve Morse Band : "Southern steel"

RAMA : project by ex-Dixie Dregs bassist Andy West that features Jens Johansson, Mike Keneally, Mike Portnoy, Rod Morgenstein, Kit Watkins ...

Spastic Ink : "Ink complete"

Cyril Achard : "Cyril Achard's Morbid feeling"

Eric Johnson : "Ah via musicom"

Patrick Rondat : "Ephemeral world"

Derek Sherinian : "Planet X"

darkprophet wrote: Thanks for all the replies, guys, sure is a big list! I think Transatlantic and Marillion would be my first purchases. I've also found my dads record collection, which has just about every artist maani named. King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull... heaps more. I guess I'll lock myself in my room for a while with a few good albums, drive my folks crazy thanks again guys.

The 24-Bit Remastered version of "Script for a Jester's Tear" is one of the most magnificent tomes ever, IMO - and I would definitely recommend "Fish-era" Marillion over "Hogarth-era", since the latter does not seem as progressive, to my jaded ears!

You really can't go wrong with early Camel, Foxtrot (Genesis) is a must, and Diamond Head were the first "Prog-metal" band if guitars are more your thing. However, I think I'd recommend Budgie over DH, as the latter are a bit of an acquired taste.

If you like Vai, then check out "Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch" by Zappa.

Levitation by Hawkwind is another fine "space-prog-metal" album, although "Sonic Attack" is more metal.

ENJOY!!!

Certif1ed wrote: The 24-Bit Remastered version of "Script for a Jester's Tear" is one of the most magnificent tomes ever, IMO - and I would definitely recommend "Fish-era" Marillion over "Hogarth-era", since the latter does not seem as progressive, to my jaded ears! You really can't go wrong with early Camel.

Never a great Marillion fan. While I liked their first album - it screamed Genesis at me and a good period of Genesis at that.  But  I guess I preferred Fish in small doses, while the instrumental breaks lacked some of the dynamics I wanted.  I largely gave up on them after  purchasing 3 vinyl albums - I think also I felt there was a bit of a sell out as they focussed on the singles chart market in the 80's. Similarly, the feeling Genesis selling out as they largely stop progging, aiming instead  at the stadium rock market - especially Collins superstardom.  I have a Hogarth period Marillion on CD, which I like but perhaps for what I hear as gloomy version of Supertramp.  I suppose my problem with neo-prog is that I tend to  hear the roots and references.

I'm also sure there are a significant number of prog fans (certainly the older generation) who will categorise Camel as second rank prog. Their earlier albums have something of the easy listening, softer edge prog  about them. Perhaps this was due to the lack of vocalist and the tunes/instrumentation not quite being interesting enough to hold one's attention for 40 minutes or so - there was plenty else around that did. (I did try with "Snow Goose"). But again, that reflects my tastes:  I prefer my prog to be  harder edged (while providing something fresh).

Dick Heath wrote: Never a great Marillion fan. While I liked their first album - it screamed Genesis at me and a good period of Genesis at that.  But  I guess I preferred Fish in small doses, while the instrumental breaks lacked some of the dynamics I wanted.  I largely gave up on them after  purchasing 3 vinyl albums - I think also I felt there was a bit of a sell out as they focussed on the singles chart market in the 80's. Similarly, the feeling Genesis selling out as they largely stop progging, aiming instead  at the stadium rock market - especially Collins superstardom.  I have a Hogarth period Marillion on CD, which I like but perhaps for what I hear as gloomy version of Supertramp.  I suppose my problem with neo-prog is that I tend to  hear the roots and references. I'm also sure there are a significant number of prog fans (certainly the older generation) who will categorise Camel as second rank prog. Their earlier albums have something of the easy listening, softer edge prog  about them. Perhaps this was due to the lack of vocalist and the tunes/instrumentation not quite being interesting enough to hold one's attention for 40 minutes or so - there was plenty else around that did. (I did try with "Snow Goose"). But again, that reflects my tastes:  I prefer my prog to be  harder edged (while providing something fresh).

Oooh - I'm not going to let you get away with that!

Horrible subjective opinion all over my favourite music?

MARILLION SOUND NOTHING LIKE GENESIS!!!

"Instrumental breaks lack dynamics?" The dynamics make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck!!

"Focussed on the singles market?" Never the intention - that was made clear early on with "Charting the Single", and even clearer with the release of "Misplaced Childhood".

The fact that the record company (EMI) wanted singles sales out of the boys was a different matter - the facts were that Marillion wrote the ideal combination of superb lyrics and great melodies with wide popular appeal and progressive music to accompany it. The fact that certain tracks got massively overplayed on FM stations is neither here nor there. They were not Genesis, although in their early days, I agree, they did try to be (I Know What I Like and the appalling Grendel - both tracks way before the Masterly "Script For A Jester's Tear").

Here's a nice hint - it may take you a LOT of listens to get - more than the regular 3-4 that your average prog rock album takes.

CAMEL:

I've NEVER found any of the Bardens-era Camel to be anything but extremely pleasantly engaging, trimmed with wonderful surprises (and maybe the odd little turkey). When I listen to a Camel album, it's with eyes closed, scotch at the ready and deep satisfaction. None of this nasty jarriness and ignorant rule-breaking you get with so many bands. Camel know the rules and bend them with a deft subtlety (generally...). Many bands could learn lessons. Although, in agreement, not singing lessons...

NEW THREAD(S) proposed;

1) Fish-era Marillion vs Genesis. WHAT are the similarities???? (I don't hear many - in fact, I hear far more almost direct rip-offs in a large number of other so-called prog bands, and a whole bunch of other influences on Marillion, including their very own sound, thankyouverymuch!!!).

2) Camel - a 2nd division prog band or Premier league? Easy listening or pure silk in a stereo?

Certif1ed wrote: MARILLION SOUND NOTHING LIKE GENESIS!!!

I entirely agree with it. They managed to create a style of their own.

Let the pantomime commence:

Oh yes they did!!!

why do you think they were called neo-prog?

Do I hear:

Oh No They Don't!

Stop Stop! No need to go any further. You play Marillion up your end of the playpen and I'll play something I enjoy, my end.

Now seriously:

Oooh - I'm not going to let you get away with that!

As an obvious  fan of Marillion I would hope you would defend them and tell me why you like them - and hopefully there may be something in what you write which turns me on. It may surprise you but I'm very open minded and I'm here for my education but you'll have to work hard to change my opinion gained from broad exposure to prog over a long time  - but surely one of the functions of this website? You'll find I'm doing something similar wrt Soft Machine elsewhere. Being educated, educating?

Give me an example or two from the first three albums so I can back and perhaps revise my ideas.

Dick Heath wrote: Now seriously: Oooh - I'm not going to let you get away with that! As an obvious  fan of Marillion I would hope you would defend them and tell me why you like them - and hopefully there may be something in what you write which turns me on. It may surprise you but I'm very open minded and I'm here for my education but you'll have to work hard to change my opinion gained from broad exposure to prog over a long time  - but surely one of the functions of this website? You'll find I'm doing something similar wrt Soft Machine elsewhere. Being educated, educating? "Instrumental breaks lack dynamics?" The dynamics make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck!! Give me an example or two from the first three albums so I can back and perhaps revise my ideas.

Dick, go with your gut feelings man, your previous post on this thread was concise and echoed my own thoughts with regard to Camel and Marrillion precisely. When you're right, you're right!

raggy wrote: Dick Heath wrote: Now seriously: Oooh - I'm not going to let you get away with that! As an obvious  fan of Marillion I would hope you would defend them and tell me why you like them - and hopefully there may be something in what you write which turns me on. It may surprise you but I'm very open minded and I'm here for my education but you'll have to work hard to change my opinion gained from broad exposure to prog over a long time  - but surely one of the functions of this website? You'll find I'm doing something similar wrt Soft Machine elsewhere. Being educated, educating? "Instrumental breaks lack dynamics?" The dynamics make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck!! Give me an example or two from the first three albums so I can back and perhaps revise my ideas.   Dick, go with your gut feelings man, your previous post on this thread was concise and echoed my own thoughts with regard to Camel and Marrillion precisely. When you're right, you're right!

This could be tricky, then, because I'm right too, as I am going with not just my gut feelings, but the real world and plain, obvious facts at my disposal  - how shall we solve this conundrum without resorting to patronisation and opinion?

I know you to be a learned gentleman, Dick Heath, and probably more widely versed in different musics than even I, which is why I was somewhat surprised at seeing the old, crusty, boring "Genesis sound like Marillion" line coming from you! I don't mind taking it offline, if it bores other members - or continuing in my fine thread on this very subject. Unfortunately, I am not a Gentleman at heart, but don't let that put you off - at least I'm an educated yob

Dick Heath wrote: why do you think they were called neo-prog?

That doesn't even begin to imply that they sounded like Genesis - and anyway, who wants that kind of argument? Not me - although I will say

NI!

To the next person who makes that kind of comment!

Hair raisers on "Script..." now, where do I begin?

"So here I am once MORE..." - the piano coming in on "MORE" does it for me every time! Then the simple chord progressions that accompany the voice for the next few bars...

OK, bigger drama needed, since I hear the entire album in a microcosm of hair-raising episodes, and the title track is packed with them, unrelenting bliss!!!

The two singles are great, if you can somehow blot out the overplay they used to get, but the remaining 4 are outstanding - the guitar solo in "Chelsea Monday", the keyboard solo in "The Web", but the Big One, for me, is the guitar entry just after "Approach, Friend" in "Forgotten Sons" - I get goose bumps simply writing about it. Also, during the fade-out, you can hear the children's choir singing "Ring-a-ring-a-roses we all fall down, Rule Britannia, Rule Britannia...".

Nothing elaborate or technically masterful - except the quality of the songwriting;  natural yet dramatic harmonic progressions that break few boundaries yet sound fresh, exquisite formal structures, beautiful song-like melodic fluency, sublime counterpoint and magical timbres (getting my own back on the opinions front!). And that's just the 1st album in a tiny nutshell.

I'm perfectly happy to do a blow-by-blow via Personal Messenger or email, for anyone that has an interest and isn't taking the ps, although I'm also happy to taunt the latter category...

Darkprophet,

As you'll have gathered, you'll not find any consensus on what to go for here, that's what makes the forum stimulating!

Best thing to do is read the reviews of some of the suggested bands' works, and see which ones "light your fire".

(Once you've done that, forget it all, and just get "Thick as a brick"! )

All:

As a somewhat-late-to-the-fold-but-dead-to-rights Marillion fan - who owns every single thing they ever recorded - I would still have to agree that, certainly during the Fish era, there was much of what they wrote that sounded derivative (not necessarily in a bad way) of Genesis.  For Pete's sake, if Fish wasn't deliberately trying to sound like Gabriel, he nevertheless did - sometime almost too much.  And his compositional approach - again, on some but by no means all of his stuff with Marillion - was Genesis-Gabrielesque.  It is disingenuous for anyone to suggest otherwise, as the similarities (where they exist) are so obvious.

This does not, however, detract in any way from Fish's particular brilliance, or the quality or enjoyability of the Fish-era Marillion compositions that are influenced by Genesis.  Marillion rightly and justly deserves their place in the pantheon of neo-prog: if we agree that the "seminal" bands I noted are indeed the "granddaddies" of "original" prog, then Marillion most certainly belongs in a similar pantheon of groups who were "seminal" to "neo-prog."

Peace.

Well, I cant help but feel partly responsible for this.

But yeah, just got some Transatlantic, sounds awesome. Is it the same singer from Spocks Beard? (Says me, trying to sound learned)

Not your fault darkprophet - it's just that sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between heated intellectual exchanges - with just a dash of evil humour, and a flame war.

In this case, it is most sincerely the former - There is no flame war.

I have always been very passionate about music - not just prog, and got into Marillion before they had any chart success. As soon as they did, the idiots who were into Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet and all the other posey groups started to dismiss them as "Oh - they sound just like Genesis". This proved beyond all doubt that the poseurs hadn't listened to either band - and it annoyed me then and it annoys me now (note, I have nothing against Duran Duran OR Spandau Ballet!).

Welcome aboard - and please enjoy checking out Camel, Marillion AND Genesis, as well as all the other fine bands that have already been mentioned!