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"Tales From Topographic Oceans Sucks" Why?

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82917
Printed Date: November 27 2024 at 05:32
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Topic: "Tales From Topographic Oceans Sucks" Why?
Posted By: progistoomainstream
Subject: "Tales From Topographic Oceans Sucks" Why?
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:14
Can someone enlighten me as to why people do not like Yes' "Tales from Topographic Oceans."

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Replies:
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:17
I can enlighten you with the fact that many here actually enjoy Tales.

It's a tough nut to crack; even I can't listen to the whole thing.


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http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm



Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:22
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=13210" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=13210
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=13178" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=13178
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=37486" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=37486
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=84662" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=84662

These should explain it pretty well.
I disagree by the way, it's a wonderful album.


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http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:26
1* is exaggerated. 

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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:35
Beats the crap out of me why the album is so hated by certain people.  I think it is an absolute masterpiece, but acknowledge it is so expansive it is not easy to get into or digest.  Alas, there is no accounting for taste, especially when we all reserve the right to like or dislike what we please (as we should).

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:36
Not everyone has to have the same opinion

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https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:36
Perhaps the best way to understand why some don't like it is to read their reviews.  Go straight to the horse's mouth.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: JesusisLord
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:36
One of my all time favorite albums,  period. Probably, safe to say, my favorite album by Yes........Who cares if others don't like it. I Love it, it being a very dear album to me......

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And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:11


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:37
People dislike it because it's extravagant purely for the sake of extravagance.  I would call it "boring w**k" but somebody will get offended ;)


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 20:43
As with a lot of double albums and a lot of super-long CDs, I like the first half much more than the second half.  Revealing Science and Remembering are among my favorite Yes epics.  The Ancient is a little tougher to get into, although the acoustic last 6 or 7 minutes is excellent as well.  Ritual would have been better at about 10 minutes.  

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 21:06
Because as Wakeman said, they had 45 or 50 good minutes, but Jon Anderson insisted in recording a double album, so they added material that was bellow the level.

Iván


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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 21:50
^ I generally feel that way about most albums over an hour long.  

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 21:52
It's a special album with moments of unbelievable music originality like the opening chant----also some great guitar work---and lot's of great bits--it's just a bit long--mostly on Ritual which rambles during the bass part--as a piece of music more than the other sides IMO---Listened to The Remembering live at Madison Sq Garden on YouTube recently and it was really interesting ---great guitar and keys--better keys than on the original.


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 21:53
It is the greatest album ever.  That is all.

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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 22:04
Because it is overlong, disjointed, lacking in focus, incoherent a lot of the time, rambling, and complex without much substance. The album is what, 80 minutes? I can think of a solid 3 minutes of a melody from it. I've listened to the album at least 4 times.

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Posted By: sideburndude...
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 22:04
The album has many incredible moments like "The Revealing Science of God", but a majority of time on the album is just spent on aimless rambling and could have been reduced in time.  I don't dislike the album it just is very flawed.  


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 22:12
Easily Yes' finest work in my opinion.  Also one of the most important rock albums in my life. 


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 22:12
I will enlighten you.

It's boring, and Anderson totally ruins it with awful singing and horrendous lyrics. Oh, and it's too long.

But that's just one opinion. Many people love that album.

Therefore, the real answer is: because music tastes are different.

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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 23:33
Originally posted by progistoomainstream progistoomainstream wrote:

Can someone enlighten me as to why people do not like Yes' "Tales from Topographic Oceans."

Clearly, they are sick and need immediate treatment by Dr. Prog.  

Seriously, four sides of complex prog-rock composition is a big of a slog in one sitting!!  I used to play "Revealing," followed by "Remembering," and then move onto something else like "Foxtrot."  It took me a while before I got into "The Ancient" and "Ritual."  

However, it is without doubt one of the high-points in rock music composition.  Howe has said that he considers his playing on the album some of his best (I agree with him).   He used a single guitar on all four sides, a Gibson Les Paul Junior (single-pickup beginner's model).  

My only regret is that Wakeman was so tenuous on the recording, he clearly didn't like it.  Pity....






Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: November 20 2011 at 23:57
It draaaaaaaaaaaaaags. Could've been a phenomenal single LP album

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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 00:21
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

 

My only regret is that Wakeman was so tenuous on the recording, he clearly didn't like it.  Pity....

Clearly didn't like it?........That's a bit short LOL

Quote WAKEMAN: I love Yes dearly, but I didn't enjoy Topographic Oceans. At the time I actually said it was an over-padded pile of sh*t. Those were the days when things were very black and white; we weren't mature enough to sit down and discuss things. 
The truth of the matter is, I still don't like the album. There's a lot of very good things on it; there's some very good moments on it. But there's tons of padding. When we went in to do it, we had too much material for a single album. So you either made it into a double album - which means write a lot more stuff - or you just reduce the size and make it into a single album. The fact of life is, we went the wrong route and we didn't have any other material. So there was padding for days on it. And Yes had never done that and I really objected to it. Vehemently objected to it.

MORGAN: And that's why you ended up taking a walk for the first time. 

WAKEMAN: Absolutely. We've all discussed it for a long time since then, and everybody actually agrees now that if the world of CD had been with us then, that problem would never have arisen. One track might've been eleven minutes, one might've been nine, one might've been twenty-six, one might've been fourteen. They would've had their natural length. It was an album that was eventually tailored and padded out to fit four sides of an album.
 
Source: Creem Magazine
Interview with Rick Wakeman 
By Jeffrey Morgan 
http://zenponies.com/yitp/2004/jun/jun_04.html" rel="nofollow - http://zenponies.com/yitp/2004/jun/jun_04.html

He was more than expressive.....I fully agree with him

Iván


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Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 00:40
it's one of the greatest albums ever, no doubt about this. it's no problem to me if someone don't like it, actually couldn't care less ...


Posted By: OT Räihälä
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 00:53
Some people don't like it because they can't cope with classical music. 

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 00:55
Originally posted by OT Räihälä OT Räihälä wrote:

Some people don't like it because they can't cope with classical music. 


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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 01:46
My opinion on it has softened over the years. There is 'padding' but actually that helps creates a unique feel to the music and maybe artistically makes some sense. Life just goes on and at times nothing happens. Only an accomplished band of musicians could have recorded this album padding and all.Its interesting.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:01
Originally posted by progistoomainstream progistoomainstream wrote:

Can someone enlighten me as to why people do not like Yes' "Tales from Topographic Oceans."

People have different taste in music.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:03
I wouldn't cut a minute of it btw...

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Kazza3
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:22
Love it - a flawed masterpiece.


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:29
I love about half of it but would concede that the remainder pretty much exemplifies why Prog had become in many people's eyes, irrelevant, redundant, bloated and on the cusp of self parody by that stage.Trying to sell an eastern spiritual agenda to a rawk demographic is tantamount to selling eye make-up to the blind. However, it's nowhere near as bad as its most vociferous critics would have you believe.


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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:38
people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!

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Posted By: Midnight Lightning
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 02:43
I agree completely with all the people who said it's Yes's best album and one of the best albums ever etc., but I can also understand all those with negative or neutral feelings towards it that say it's unnecessarily long and boring, irrelevant in concept, etc.
I think it has to do with the time in my life I first heard it, and the impact it had on me. Listening to the full 80+ minutes with headphones on was a ritual for me (yeah, stupid pun intended). Until today it's one of the albums that brings me the most pleasure.


Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 03:41
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!

Andy Tillison from The Tangent and the guys from Glass Hammer are just a few artists heavily influenced by TFTO. Just cause Wakeman doesn't like it doesn't invalidate it as a piece of Rock Art. 


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 03:50
Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Love it - a flawed masterpiece.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 03:52
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!

Andy Tillison from The Tangent and the guys from Glass Hammer are just a few artists heavily influenced by TFTO. Just cause Wakeman doesn't like it doesn't invalidate it as a piece of Rock Art. 

I don't give a toss what Wakeman says about it. Just listen to some of his achingly awful albums and see if his opinion counts for much.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: treebeard
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 04:27
Its very ambitious and that for a lot of people is too challenging. It demands the time to unlock it and discover it fully.
It is in every way a monumental piece of work, and I would challenge anyone to look at other grand projects and not find some areas that are less successful, the same can be said of this album. 
The problem for the album is that it also suffered badly at the hand of the critics and that in the minds of some has bled through and affects the view point, I know, I was one...sometimes its best not to read reviews of albums first.......


Posted By: treebeard
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 06:01
to add, for me, the real Turkeys, the ones that sucked were in the 80's with Trevor Rabin



Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 06:21
I agree with Wakeman's words. This work will never be what It could have been.


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 06:46
After three masterpiece albums in succession, Tales was some sort of cold turkey, although it is still recognizable as a Yes album. The Revealing Science of God has some beautiful parts and The Ancient is also bearable, but The Remembering is boring in its entirety and I never could get into Ritual. In a review, a one star rating would be unappropriate, but I could not squeeze a third star out of it.

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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 06:50
I think it stems back to the way the critics savaged it when it first came out.  It's just easy to pick on and far more difficult to take in and appreciate.  "Too long" always reminds me of that scene in Amadeus where he was criticized for having "too many notes".  I believe it went something to the effect of there are so many notes the human ear can take in in one evening.  Still I can see the point of those who say the album was padded.  It did seem they were trying to replicate Close To Edge but having four side long songs and that may have been a bit too adventurous.

Still, I'm not going to bestow masterpiece upon it.  If you stack it up against The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, that was a four-sider done right.  And I know not everyone will agree with me on that.  Its length was due to having a story to tell that couldn't be trimmed back to a single record even if it had single CD capacity.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 08:02
Originally posted by progistoomainstream progistoomainstream wrote:

Can someone enlighten me as to why people do not like Yes' "Tales from Topographic Oceans."
I didn't like it because of it's internal bleeding. In 1972 ....I was teased with The Yes Album, Fragile, and C.T.T.E.

This was different. I immediately bought the album upon it's release. It seemed at the time....that when other bands attempted drawn out concept albums it simply worked for me. But not with Yes. It felt as if the adventurous interplay of instruments, interesting time signatures, and that power of impact the band had with songwriting was no longer present. It's the same old predictable dicky ding-dong  sequence of affairs. I felt the same way when Mahavishnu Orchestra changed their line-up and released Apocalypse. Many mainstream rock music fans reacted in the same way when David Bowie stopped writing for the Spiders. You either prefer an artists new creation or you don't. Unfortunately.....it doesn't get too much deeper than that.  This has been going on for years with many styles of music and not just prog.


Posted By: GoldenGod2112
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 08:10
I absolutely love the album. Tongue

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The future's uncertain and the end is always near. - Jim Morrison


Posted By: toroddfuglesteg
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 08:14
The reason why this album has got this reputation is that Rick Wakeman hated/hates it. Rick is very witty, vocal and influential. Vocal = outspoken here and he has given this album a lot of attention. Hence it's bad reputation if you get to the core of all the criticism. It is like peeling an onion, btw. I have not a bad word to say about Rick though.  


Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 08:37

Excellent album. Never had any issues with it.



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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 09:26
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

. I have not a bad word to say about Rick though.  

I agree, he had some terrible alnbums. but he also had:
  1. Six Wives
  2. Journey to the Centre of the Earth
  3. Myths & Legends
  4. Criminal Record
  5. No Earthly Connection
  6. White Rock
  7. 1984
  8. Black Knights at the Court of Ferdinand IV
  9. Softsword (King John and the magna Carta)
  10. Romance at the Victorian Age
  11. Stella Bianca A La Corte de Re Ferdinando
  12. Simply Acoustic
  13. Return to the Centre of the Earth
  14. Two Sides of Yes
  15. The Wizard and the Forest of all Dreams
Any artist who has this number of great albums has the right to be listened...Very few artists only dream wit having this number of masterpieces or great albums.

Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

 

Andy Tillison from The Tangent and the guys from Glass Hammer are just a few artists heavily influenced by TFTO. Just cause Wakeman doesn't like it doesn't invalidate it as a piece of Rock Art. 

No, it's not because Wakeman said it, most of have our own opinions, we agree with Wakeman, but the problem existed long before Rick spoke.

I believe:
  1. It's uneven
  2. Extremely long
  3. Painful vocals
  4. Cheesy lyrics
  5. To much filler
Iván


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Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 09:41
Sandwiched between Close to the Edge and Relayer!  What was the question again?


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 09:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

. I have not a bad word to say about Rick though.  

I agree, he had some terrible alnbums. but he also had:
  1. Six Wives
  2. Journey to the Centre of the Earth
  3. Myths & Legends
  4. Criminal Record
  5. No Earthly Connection
  6. White Rock
  7. 1984
  8. Black Knights at the Court of Ferdinand IV
  9. Softsword (King John and the magna Carta)
  10. Romance at the Victorian Age
  11. Stella Bianca A La Corte de Re Ferdinando
  12. Simply Acoustic
  13. Return to the Centre of the Earth
  14. Two Sides of Yes
  15. The Wizard and the Forest of all Dreams
Any artist who has this number of great albums has the right to be listened...Very few artists only dream wit having this number of masterpieces or great albums.

Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

 

Andy Tillison from The Tangent and the guys from Glass Hammer are just a few artists heavily influenced by TFTO. Just cause Wakeman doesn't like it doesn't invalidate it as a piece of Rock Art. 

No, it's not because Wakeman said it, most of have our own opinions, we agree with Wakeman, but the problem existed long before Rick spoke.

I believe:
  1. It's uneven
  2. Extremely long
  3. Painful vocals
  4. Cheesy lyrics
  5. To much filler
Iván

I have to disagree with your definition of masterpiece and I'm not sure all those you list are great. Neverheless I love Rick, admire him, but don't feel compelled to agree with him.
As for you TOTO comments.

1. It isn't uneven...well it is, but all great music is otherwise it's a wall of noise.
2. Not extremely. A CD full?
3. What?
4. I have problems with the phrase cheesy so no comment.
5. To much or not to much? That is the question. Well I don't hear any filler so I guess it's personal. I suppose you could say Beethoven had to much filler.


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:20
Snow Dog: If you have a problem with the word cheesy...This si chjeesy:

Maybe I'll just sing awhile
And then give you a call/quote
Maybe I'll just say hello
And say maybe that's all
Hurry home as love is true
Will help us through the night

Or this:

Look me my love sentences move dancing away
We join we receive
As our song memories long hope in a way

Pure gouda. Wink

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

1. It isn't uneven...well it is, but all great music is otherwise it's a wall of noise.


Lol I know it, but I'm talking of 45 good minutes of music and 45 minutes of mediocre music. 

Iván 


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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:21
Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Excellent album. Never had any issues with it.



Posted By: MillsLayne
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:29
This was a little hard to digest the first time I listened to it, but now I absolutely love this album!  A real gem!

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ht


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:44
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog: If you have a problem with the word cheesy...This si chjeesy:

Maybe I'll just sing awhile
And then give you a call/quote
Maybe I'll just say hello
And say maybe that's all
Hurry home as love is true
Will help us through the night

Or this:

Look me my love sentences move dancing away
We join we receive
As our song memories long hope in a way

Pure gouda. Wink



I guess cheeseyness must be a matter of opinion because neither of those seem it to me. Of course maybe I don't understand the meaning.


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Posted By: treebeard
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:48
cheesier than??
"owner of a lonely heart, 
much better than a 
Owner of a broken heart....

Barry Manilow could have written that.


Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 10:56
Tales should be better as a single album

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FAIS QUE TON REVE SOIT PLUS LONG QUE LA NUIT HAVE YOUR DREAM LASTING LONGER THAN THE NIGHT


Posted By: Midnight Lightning
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 11:27
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 
Maybe I'll just sing awhile
And then give you a call
Maybe I'll just say hello
And say maybe that's all
Hurry home as love is true
Will help us through the night

I actually always really liked those lines, to me it speaks of a very pure truth about being human and the ritual of daily life, and it fits the context of the song very well the way I understand it.


Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 13:26
I regonize myself to those who love that album.
My personal positive associations were borne from process of learning to listen longer & complex music with this record along some Wagner's operas as teenager.
The hopeful and sacred feeling on the album with fabulous gatefold covers and pretty illustrations are also very appealing for me.

As I listen today this Yes record, I think the first of LP's is the best, and the second is good too, but there are even yet better live versions found from both "Ancient" and "The Ritual".
Also the bit longer mix of "Revealing Science of God" with ambient intro from some remastered CD is neat.

About the lyrics; Have never tried to search a divine maning from them, I think they work quite well for the singer as purely melodic instrument.
As not having Eglish as my first language it is blissful to be able to filter out all kinds of "I'm a highway star" poetry away from the listening enjoyment.

I personally do not mind artists (or anybody elses) opinions concerning releases have they done, as they have might tried to achieve something else, and the "failed" endresult might be stimulating for me anyhow. Have found this subjective line quite satisfying for myself.




 




Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 13:42
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Originally posted by Bj-1 Bj-1 wrote:

Excellent album. Never had any issues with it.

 
Screw Wakeman...if you read the liner notes Jon Anderson had been thinking of a long multi-composition album during a tour and thus began the construction of Tales From Topographic Oceans. He even states he and Howe staying up very late in a hotel room putting it together. And gives credit on each song as to what each musician added to the compositions.
Now I assume the same liner notes appear in the CD version, which I don't own, I only own the vinyl version with gatefold and all the liner notes and lyrics.
 
Its a brilliant, fantastic journey Yes puts the listener through. I do my very best to listen to all 4 sides in one sitting....but when I don't, I never come away satisfied.
 
StarStarStarStarStar


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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 13:46
This really is a divisive album.

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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:00
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

This really is a divisive album.

Yep, probably the most divisive one in prog's history.

I love sides one & four, but only occasionally the other two. I have to be "in the mood".


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:04
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

 

My only regret is that Wakeman was so tenuous on the recording, he clearly didn't like it.  Pity....

Clearly didn't like it?........That's a bit short LOL


He was more than expressive.....I fully agree with him

Iván


Hah, thanks for that one, Iván!  I forgot how acidic he was back in the day!  

Despite all the venom, Wakeman DID make some very nice contributions, particularly on Mellotron....by being somewhat withdrawn, I believe the music actually benefitted, as Rick could be slightly bombastic/over-the-top on keys in that period (as in "Journey" etc.).  His parts are very subtle and actually compliment Howe's musical leadership.  

I've posted this several times, this is a lovely interview with Rick Wakefield Dead wearing a lovely gold cape, comparing the TFTO tour with "Spinal Tap."  I have no doubt that the unwieldy, elaborate tour for Tales was at least partly the inspiration for ST live acts such as "Stone Henge"!!   This is hilarious....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1Ss5rspNu" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1Ss5rspNu


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:11
^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:13
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.

High Five!!!!


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Kazza3
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 16:52
I know Wakey wasn't interested in the album, but I think his parts are as or more integral to this album as any other, his parts are sublime. And the solo at the end of the Revealing Science is one of my favourite minimoog solos.


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 19:55
This album is defined by how one bombastic performer supposedly felt during the recording process......I fail to see how that has any bearing on the final outcome......Other than for me to say his performance was $hit and I can easily see and hear beyond that. I sometimes feel that is an excuse by some to label this album subpar at best.......Hogwash!
In spite of Wakeman's performance or personal feelings towards this album, my ears tell me it is a brilliant album.

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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 19:58
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile


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Posted By: sideburndude...
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by jean-marie jean-marie wrote:

Tales should be better as a single album


I completely agree.


Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:05
Originally posted by MillsLayne MillsLayne wrote:

This was a little hard to digest the first time I listened to it, but now I absolutely love this album!  A real gem!


Same here, except it happened a few years back for me.


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:09
I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

It is strange to me, and I do wonder...

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:11
Quote WAKEMAN: I love Yes dearly, but I didn't enjoy Topographic Oceans. At the time I actually said it was an over-padded pile of sh*t. Those were the days when things were very black and white; we weren't mature enough to sit down and discuss things. 
The truth of the matter is, I still don't like the album. There's a lot of very good things on it; there's some very good moments on it. But there's tons of padding. When we went in to do it, we had too much material for a single album. So you either made it into a double album - which means write a lot more stuff - or you just reduce the size and make it into a single album. The fact of life is, we went the wrong route and we didn't have any other material. So there was padding for days on it. And Yes had never done that and I really objected to it. Vehemently objected to it.


I lol'd

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by OT Räihälä OT Räihälä wrote:

Some people don't like it because they can't cope with classical music. 


Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 



Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:12
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

It is strange to me, and I do wonder...

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?


Indeed, I think the format turns people off more than the actual music does. Which is strange, because prog fans are supposed to be open-minded about that kind of thing... Ermm

Of course, this doesn't apply to all of the album's detractors.


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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:13
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?


I would like it (CttE) more, because the title track from CttE is one of my least favourite "clasic prog epics" ever (dethroned only by Supper's Ready)




Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:58
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

Don't blame him, sooner or later i would had reviewed it, and the rating would had been the same.

.

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

It is strange to me, and I do wonder..

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

Impossible, "Close to the Edge" is a product of Wakeman in his best moment and Bruford (White only turned into the Yes drummer in Relayer, Tales is a product of a band with internal problems and the obsession of Jon Anderson to do a conceptual album at any cost..

CttE has three songs, all excellent, not a single weak moment 

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



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Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:34
I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

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Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:41
...not really mentioned yet are the power of Anderson's lyrics!  Compared to the very nice, but mindless, "babble" of CTTE, he really took a quantum leap in terms of his lyrical poetry.  VERY moving and powerful, IMHO. 

However, use with caution....I was in line at the store and absent-mindedly started singing "Relayer.....all the dying cry before you!"  The woman in front of me gave me quite a dirty look.  


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



You may have missed what I'm asking:

Pretend for a moment that Tales from Topographic Oceans consisted of four sides:

3 that you most like from TFTO
and then substitute your least favorite track with "Close to the Edge" (the song, not the album).

For instance, you might have:

"The Revealing Science of God"
"The Remembering"
"Close to the Edge"
"Ritual."

Substitute any song you want.  Would you like TFTO better? 


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:01
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



You may have missed what I'm asking:

Pretend for a moment that Tales from Topographic Oceans consisted of four sides:

3 that you most like from TFTO
and then substitute your least favorite track with "Close to the Edge" (the song, not the album).

For instance, you might have:

"The Revealing Science of God"
"The Remembering"
"Close to the Edge"
"Ritual."

Substitute any song you want.  Would you like TFTO better? 

No.  I suppose once upon a time I had a preference for some of the sides over the others, but I've never deliberately skipped any part whenever I've played the album.  And substitution is not an option.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: danielfortin
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:13
With all due respect to M.Wakeman, it's very easy to understand why he didn't like TFTO (when he recorded it, because I read that he changed his mind since then). Listen to Wakeman's discography. On the more than 80 albums he released there is 2 good, 4 listenable and 74 pure boring pieces of crap. And there is no one of them, good ot bad, that get just a bit close to the pure genius that is TFTO!

While I loved CTTE, TFTO just changed my life...forever!


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Selling punk like some new kind of English disease! Is that the wave of the future?

(Frank Zappa - Joe's Garage 1979)


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:21
Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

Are you writing that ^ from a mental institution?LOL

If Tales was written in the age of CD's it could have been 60 plus minutes long and everyone would be happy---with double albums it's a nearly 90 min experience which is a hard thing to pull off and there are very few perfect double albums---but Tales has some really good stuff---


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:40
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

Are you writing that ^ from a mental institution?LOL

If Tales was written in the age of CD's it could have been 60 plus minutes long and everyone would be happy---with double albums it's a nearly 90 min experience which is a hard thing to pull off and there are very few perfect double albums---but Tales has some really good stuff---
I still have my first Tales CD and it's a double disc box set non remaster.  Probably the least desirable version out there on CD and it still holds up well.  If you want to cut it down, get yourself some software and edit for yourself.  I'm just sayin'.  Filler filler filler.  You need to have some fiber in your diet. Tongue


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 00:46
 
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.

High Five!!!!

Dead   Just read the interview with Wakefield (um, I mean, Wakeman!)  Here's a sample:

In those days, I used to have my roadie actually lying underneath the Hammond organ throughout the set. If anything went wrong he could try to fix it. Also, he could continually hand me my alcoholic drinks.


We'd often have a little chat and on this particular evening in Manchester, I thought he said: 'What are you doing after the show?'


'I'm going to have a curry,' I replied. 'What would you order?' It seemed a strangely specific question but I didn't have much else to do so I told him. 'Chicken vindaloo, pilau rice, half a dozen poppadums, bhindi bhaji, Bombay aloo and a stuffed paratha.'


About 30 minutes later, I started to get this distinct waft of curry. I looked down and my roadie was lying there holding up an Indian takeaway. 'What's that?' I asked.


'You said you wanted a curry.' 'No. I said I wanted a curry after the show...' However, it smelled really good so he passed up the little foil trays and I laid this lovely spread out on top of the keyboard and ate it.


The rest of the band weren't best pleased - after all, there was a certain mystique surrounding Yes.


Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6


Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 05:37
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?

Can't speak for everyone, but speaking for myself, I'm pretty sure I would have liked it less. Let's say we switch "Close to the Edge" and "The Ancient", my favorite from TFTO. I'd still like the resulting CttE album less than it is now. I consider "Close to the Edge" to be perfect, while the TFTO tracks can only dream of being that good. I don't even enjoy all of the basic material (although I do enjoy most of it). Add to that a lot of padding and you have some definitely flawed tracks.

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

Let's say we switch "Close to the Edge" and "The Revealing", my least favorite. Sure I would enjoy the resulting TFTO album more.

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

I really don't think so. I think most of the people who dislike TFTO but like CttE simply don't like the individual songs on TFTO. It doesn't have anything to do with their combined running length.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 05:48
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

 
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.

High Five!!!!

Dead   Just read the interview with Wakefield (um, I mean, Wakeman!)  Here's a sample:

In those days, I used to have my roadie actually lying underneath the Hammond organ throughout the set. If anything went wrong he could try to fix it. Also, he could continually hand me my alcoholic drinks.


We'd often have a little chat and on this particular evening in Manchester, I thought he said: 'What are you doing after the show?'


'I'm going to have a curry,' I replied. 'What would you order?' It seemed a strangely specific question but I didn't have much else to do so I told him. 'Chicken vindaloo, pilau rice, half a dozen poppadums, bhindi bhaji, Bombay aloo and a stuffed paratha.'


About 30 minutes later, I started to get this distinct waft of curry. I looked down and my roadie was lying there holding up an Indian takeaway. 'What's that?' I asked.


'You said you wanted a curry.' 'No. I said I wanted a curry after the show...' However, it smelled really good so he passed up the little foil trays and I laid this lovely spread out on top of the keyboard and ate it.


The rest of the band weren't best pleased - after all, there was a certain mystique surrounding Yes.


Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6" rel="nofollow - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6

I don't know why you bothered. We've all heard the story before. Many, many, many times.....


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 05:51
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


Dead   Just read the interview with Wakefield (um, I mean, Wakeman!)  Here's a sample:


'I'm going to have a curry,' I replied. 'What would you order?' It seemed a strangely specific question but I didn't have much else to do so I told him. 'Chicken vindaloo, pilau rice, half a dozen poppadums, bhindi bhaji, Bombay aloo and a stuffed paratha.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6" rel="nofollow -
?Dead?

I didn't know Rick liked Indian Big smile.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 06:21
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

Are you writing that ^ from a mental institution?LOL

If Tales was written in the age of CD's it could have been 60 plus minutes long and everyone would be happy---with double albums it's a nearly 90 min experience which is a hard thing to pull off and there are very few perfect double albums---but Tales has some really good stuff---
I still have my first Tales CD and it's a double disc box set non remaster.  Probably the least desirable version out there on CD and it still holds up well.  If you want to cut it down, get yourself some software and edit for yourself.  I'm just sayin'.  Filler filler filler.  You need to have some fiber in your diet. Tongue

Yeah I bought the double remaster CD box and it looks and sounds excellent. Its not a perfect album with one track that really grates on the nerves <cough>track 3<cough> but its still an important project that really changed the music of the 70s showing what can be possible, albums can be different, you do not need to stick to a format. At least Yes were willing to step clean outside the box and produce something remarkable. The fact that it doesn't appeal to the masses is part of the staying power of the album as a legendary piece of art. It is infamous and still is discussed today <cough>this thread<cough> so how can it be ignored... wouldn't every artist want something to make this much impact for better or worse.... 



The songs on TFTO range from brilliant, the opening and closing track, to mediocre, the middle section. I have heard the middle section only a few times as it is rather dull to be honest. But this is how the album plays out like a 4 act play, the stunning intro that hooks in the listener, followed by a lull in the action, a calm before the storm, almost a dreamy sleepy section, and then finally culminating in a majestic stirring epic finale. I rediscovered Ritual on the Tsongas DVD and what a version it is! The middle is sandwiched between inspired musical genius, and therein lies the problem. Were yes being too clever for their own good? The album is a testament of overdoing everything to the point of parody. Indeed, Spinal Tap parodied the lavish sets on their film. Dean's artwork was translated to the stage and practically dwarfed the band members who were lost in their own fantasised 'Stonehenge' creation.

Everything on the album is upsized and overblown, even the infamous cover artwork is the best of Dean with fish swimming in dreamscape oceans, captured in enigmatic glorious vinyl gatefold. 'Relayer' brought the band back down to earth in some ways but 'TFTO' will always remain a symbol of prog excess, and it is just about the most discussed album in history. I award it 4 stars for it's sheer status in music history and for the amazing musicianship.



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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 06:26
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Quote WAKEMAN: I love Yes dearly, but I didn't enjoy Topographic Oceans. At the time I actually said it was an over-padded pile of sh*t. Those were the days when things were very black and white; we weren't mature enough to sit down and discuss things. 
The truth of the matter is, I still don't like the album. There's a lot of very good things on it; there's some very good moments on it. But there's tons of padding. When we went in to do it, we had too much material for a single album. So you either made it into a double album - which means write a lot more stuff - or you just reduce the size and make it into a single album. The fact of life is, we went the wrong route and we didn't have any other material. So there was padding for days on it. And Yes had never done that and I really objected to it. Vehemently objected to it.


I lol'd

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by OT Räihälä OT Räihälä wrote:

Some people don't like it because they can't cope with classical music. 


Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 


Don't listen to Wakeman, as he was just peeved that he was being taken down from his glittery pedestal. He was always disappearing up his own shaft and the band were not interested in more of his bombastic piano solos. I like his work with the band but it was becoming very self centred and TFTO put the record straight. Yes were taking on new territories boldly and deserve recognition for that achievement.

As quoted in my review:

The album divides loyalties among critics right down the middle, love it or loathe it. Suffice it to state that the album is not designed to appeal to everybody and raised the hackles of the music industry due to it's over indulgence in prog excess. Perhaps it is the peak of over progging an album. The thing has 4 monsters that devour entire sides of vinyl, and music companies were less than impressed. But Yes soldiered on relentlessly and proudly with their behemoth, performing it in its entirety on the stage to baffled audiences, and effectively transformed the way people perceived music. Does it have to be 3 minute pieces for the radio? Obviously not. Can we have 2 albums with only 4 songs? Obviously yes. Someone had to do it and Jethro Tull enjoyed parodying it on his opus Thick as a Brick. When is too much of something simply too much? Yes created the concept of the 'Topographic' category of albums.

The album has taken on a life of it's own creating it's own folklore, the term used by music artists is to create their own 'Topographic' album. What are they talking about? The peak of success, the album that all others are measured against. A work of art that becomes the pinnacle of success, yet it is widely hated. Yes were taking huge chances with the album content, would people want an album of 4 massive epics? Furthermore, nobody understood the lyrics, though you will hear critics rattle on about some ancient religious new age Shastric Scriptures mumbo jumbo that Anderson seemed to be obsessed with, reading the "Autobiography of a Yogi" as a launching pad for the themes. The lyrics effectively become as surreal as the music, as inseperable as Howe's guitars and Squire's bass, and there are some wonderful lyrical moments with mantras, chants and estranged singing, "Nous Sommes Du Soleil", Anderson creating his own mythology, here at his bombastic best, translating it as, "We love when we play."

The music is essential in every sense of the word, it even divided the band itself, Wakeman took off on extended leave such was his angst over the musical direction. And it signified the end of a Yes era with Wakeman out of the picture. The caped wonder actually was so bored during one concert performance that he had his roadie order a chicken curry vindaloo and devoured it, much to the astonishment of Anderson, "I don't believe it, he's eating a curry!" Wakeman scarpered for greener pastures and eventually discovered it was found in The Centre of the Earth. Much to the chagrin of Yes members, Wakeman loves to trash the album and for good reason as he is virtually invisible musically.



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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 06:34
I think Jon was just jealous because you can't eat a curry and sing at the same time. Wink

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 07:02
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I think Jon was just jealous because you can't eat a curry and sing at the same time. Wink


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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 09:27
Originally posted by danielfortin danielfortin wrote:

With all due respect to M.Wakeman, it's very easy to understand why he didn't like TFTO (when he recorded it, because I read that he changed his mind since then). Listen to Wakeman's discography. On the more than 80 albums he released there is 2 good, 4 listenable and 74 pure boring pieces of crap. And there is no one of them, good ot bad, that get just a bit close to the pure genius that is TFTO!


Oh please, have you ever checked when the best Wakeman albums were released?

Tales was  released in 1973

Rick Wakeman released:

  1. The Six Wives -1973
  2. Journey to the Centre of the Earth - 1974
  3. Myths and Legends - 1975
  4. No Earthly Connection - 1976
  5. White Rock - 1977
  6. Criminal Record - 1977
  7. 1984 - 1881
Affirming he changed his mind since Tales is absurd (don't believe everything you read), because he started releasing his best albums from  1973 until 1981.

BTW: Calling crap what we like is some sort of disrespect...Don't you believe?

Iván


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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 10:20
^ Ivan.....I am a huge Yes fan, from way back in the day (as a lot of older listeners here are). What they were doing was magical at that time. Tales as a new release in 1973 was over the top for sure, bombastic, epic...too long. Those are all correct descriptions, but if you were a Yes fan back in the day that album was simply magical.....It may have taken me 14 bowls of grass Smoke to understand it...but it was and still is amazing Big smile.
And because I am a Yes fan I tried very hard to enjoy Wakeman's albums when he started that.......he is a very difficult listen, a lot of his material is very, very boring. Six Wifes and Journey/Center Earth are IMO the only tolerable recordings. when I play them they end up being just back ground music for me as I am doing something else.
And off topic, but I also found this to be the case with Uli Jon Roth, when he left Scorpions and went on that spacey, angelic, trancendental musical journey.....way too boring. And I am a huge Scorpions fan and Roth fan, amazing guitarist he is.
So it does not always work........maybe if Wakeman would have embraced what Yes were doing at the time, he would have had more fun and put everything he had into Tales, and all the critics would have written something different.......But to me it seems as though one man's attitude/comments (back in the day) affected an album.
 
Ivan maybe I am totally off base, you are the symphonic expert, but from years past its just how I feel........
 
I love the album, always have always will.......(all 4 sides) Clap


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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 10:45
^ I like a few of Wakeman's albums, like a lot. But none match up to the brilliance of TFTO. The common comment is too much filler but I cannot imagine liking it any more if it was shortened in any way. What would be cut?

Side 2 and 3 seems to be getting the most flak. OK side 2 is a bit calm and easy going. Tranquil even, But you need it because side 3 is awesome!!!! And youy get some amazing Howe acoustic work! What the hell more could you want?


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 10:49
One thing I noticed about the thread starter Progistoomainstream. He starts polls and threads but very rarely comes back and joins in. See for yourselves. Almost Trollish behaviour but there is no word for it.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 10:52
Originally posted by danielfortin danielfortin wrote:

With all due respect to M.Wakeman, it's very easy to understand why he didn't like TFTO (when he recorded it, because I read that he changed his mind since then). Listen to Wakeman's discography. On the more than 80 albums he released there is 2 good, 4 listenable and 74 pure boring pieces of crap. And there is no one of them, good ot bad, that get just a bit close to the pure genius that is TFTO!

While I loved CTTE, TFTO just changed my life...forever!

As a Yes fanboy--and Wakeman fan---I think you have Wakeman's solo career pretty much exactly right---2 good--4 listenable---most of his solo stuff as with Anderson---is overall very mediocre to bad---they need some other fellows (howe, squire, bruford, white) to make their music sound good.


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 11:02
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

One thing I noticed about the thread starter Progistoomainstream. He starts polls and threads but very rarely comes back and joins in. See for yourselves. Almost Trollish behaviour but there is no word for it.

He makes the threads as a joke.


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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 11:24
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

 

As a Yes fanboy--and Wakeman fan---I think you have Wakeman's solo career pretty much exactly right---2 good--4 listenable---most of his solo stuff as with Anderson---is overall very mediocre to bad---they need some other fellows (howe, squire, bruford, white) to make their music sound good.

On CD that I have studiowise and including Journey I count 6 good ones, 2 I would toss, and one unimpressive religious themed one.


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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:08
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile

  1. Extremely dirty and unpleasant.
  2. Showing a contemptible lack of moral standards.
Cool


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:10
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile

  1. Extremely dirty and unpleasant


As in "My daughter's bedroom is very squalid"


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:13
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

  I don't know why you bothered. We've all heard the story before. Many, many, many times.....

Rick made me do it.....


The stuff about the equipment malfunctions on the tour were new to me!!  Alan White getting trapped inside of the elaborate Roger Dean stage set equipment etc.    

Damn, that was the only major Yes tour I missed since CTTE!   They cancelled my show in Urbana, IL due to lack of truck fuel due to the Oil Embargo.   

My own favorite side of "Tales" is "The Remembering," I find the composition and instrumental performances sublime.  I could really do without "The Ancient."  A release of Sides One and Two would have worked for me. 


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:15
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

  I don't know why you bothered. We've all heard the story before. Many, many, many times.....

Rick made me do it.....


The stuff about the equipment malfunctions on the tour were new to me!!  Alan White getting trapped inside of the elaborate Roger Dean stage set equipment etc.    

Damn, that was the only major Yes tour I missed since CTTE!   They cancelled my show in Urbana, IL due to lack of truck fuel due to the Oil Embargo.   

My own favorite side of "Tales" is "The Remembering," I find the composition and instrumental performances sublime.  I could really do without "The Ancient."  A release of Sides One and Two would have worked for me. 

Sorry I just meant the curry incident.LOL

Yes, the rest was interesting, I agree.Wink


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:19
Honestly Catcher, I enjoy

1.- Six Wives
2.- Journey
3.- Myths & Legends
4.- Criminal Record
5.- No Eartly Connection
6.- Return to the Cenre of he Earth

Much more than any Yes album except CttE and Relayer, which IMO are in the same level.

I remember when Tales was released, wasn't still a Prog fan (Hey I was 9), but all the older brothers of my friends were simply disappointed.

I recently bought the Six Wives DVD and simply love it, I listen it more than any Yes DVD

Iván




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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 12:20
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile

  1. Extremely dirty and unpleasant.
  2. Showing a contemptible lack of moral standards.
Cool
 
Fantastic!!!
 
as in....."after that curry dinner spread, I left the toilet in a squalid state....." that would pretty much cover both definitions Nuke 


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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 22 2011 at 13:08
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile

  1. Extremely dirty and unpleasant


As in "My daughter's bedroom is very squalid"

Nothing compared to my son'sLOL

Talking of which, my ten year old pride and joy has synched a few of my tracks onto his i pod and is now a declared "prog fan". He's listening to Asia's debut as I write.

My wife has just said, "what are you doing to our son?".

My response?

"Only start to worry when he listens to, and enjoys all of, Tales From Topographic Oceans!!"


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!



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