Ayreon: Electric Castle (A Space Opera)
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8180
Printed Date: March 04 2025 at 19:42
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Topic: Ayreon: Electric Castle (A Space Opera)
Posted By: grandoleopry
Subject: Ayreon: Electric Castle (A Space Opera)
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 00:51
| Why is this great double album never mentioned anywhere as a great double album? It is the only album that I've heard in the last ten years that earns five stars from me. It has all the elements of great prog, great music and is just a pleasure to listen too without the hard work! Lets give Lucassen the respect he certainly earned. Is anyone else out there in cyberspace in agreement with me (Dolphin Fan excepted)? Oh, bye the way, rather than answer me with a short over the bow shot, tell me why or why not you agree or not agree. Break down the merits of this wonderful composition if you dare... |
Replies:
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 00:55
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I do love this album. Some of the songs are so utterly fantastic... Rainbow Bridge being my current favorite.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 02:01
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I think it's because not everyone is into metal. I personally find this album to be a masterpiece... utterly fantastic.To each their own, I suppose... ------------- 
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Posted By: dropForge
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 02:07
| Give Lucassen the respect he's earned? He lost it when he put out that Flight Of The Migrator and Star One: Space Metal drivel. His shtick's already tired. |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 02:29
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And The Human Equation, the best work of his career by far, did nothing for you?
------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: dropForge
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 03:27
No thanks. There's too much good music to listen to. I've tired of the "all-star cast" formula for now. I think Erik Norlander (he and Arjen used to be pals) one-upped Ayreon with Music Machine. It's not as over the top, not as overblown, thus more organic and human-sounding. The next Ayreon album ought to be titled Knights Of The Pro Tools ...no doubt jaws are dropping everywhere, since everybody seems to regard Arjen as something of a Midas man. 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 04:46
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I love the "overblown" sound of the Ayreon albums. However, it's not that but the melodies, arrangements and musicianship of everyone involved that makes these albums so great. I admit that I had a hard time getting into the "Castle Hall" song on Electric Castle, the growling effects put me off. But that's 30 seconds of about 90 minutes of absolute greatness ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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dropForge wrote:Posted By: limeyrob
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 15:09
| Agreed, it is a great album. The question is - Is it worth it's 96th place in the top 500? I'd say it's about right - and that's without my vote?? |
Posted By: frenchie
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 15:15
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space opera eh? "welcome to the opera in space where R2D2 is playing the bass!" ------------- The Worthless Recluse 
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Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 15:53
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The Electric Castle is over-rated IMO, but The Human Equation is fantastic. The Universal Migrator was a piece of dog doo doo, wasn't it? I don't blame you Dropforge for heading towards greener pastures, but you missed a good one with The Human Equation. ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: fractal
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 15:54
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I've heard somewhere that this Electric Castle was actually a concept
album for a failed animation movie project. Is it true? I know only
Universal Migrator and Human Equation (I find this better than the
first). All Ayreon albums are concept albums? I hope this approach doesn't get tiresome to the fans.  ------------- Klaatu Barada Nikto! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:00
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Actual Fantasy is not really a concept album. But all other Ayreon albums are concept albums ... and they're all very good. Storywise, I like The Final Experiment the most. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:23
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Maybe because this double album is not so great. Maybe because this double album is pretty average double album. Boring double album containing only few "elements of great prog, great music and is just a pleasure to listen too without the hard work" That's why, I think.... ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:29
You stand alone, eugene. Careful with that bashing ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Henkka
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:36
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Yes, Into the Electric Castle rocks in my opinion. It's been said many times, but I'm going to say again that Arjen really is a genius. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:38
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Yeah, yeah, MikeEnregalia, I know.... But thanks for the warning anyway. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:41
Nevermind, you're free to say that Arjen is overrated. I just happen to disagree, and I'm backed by these ladies and gentlemen:
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:53
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MikeEnRegalia: Your list is impressive one, and actually I was often thinking how this happens that having had involved so many brilliant musicians Mr. Lucassen still failed to produce a single genius work. Mind you, I am not saying that his music is rubbish, to the contrary - it's quite listenable and probably very much enjoyable to many listeners, I just think it's very much overrated. And again - metal stuff is not really my cup of tea. However I have to admit that I like his last work very much - Human Equation IMO is his best sofar (3.5 / 4 stars). ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 16:53
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It is my favorite Ayreon album. The Human Equation is better in some aspects, but THIS is more extreme. It is more over the top than the other albums. It's unreal. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:02
Metal is VERY MUCH my cup of tea, and that may influence my judgment. But knowing that, I have become very careful when talking about music that is NOT my cup of tea. I would never post in a Canterbury thread that I think Caravan are overrated, just because I don't like Canterbury. BTW, ordered In The Land Of Pink And Grey ... can't wait for it to arrive. What I'm saying is that when you bash an artist because you don't like the genre, you make a fool out of yourself (not talking about you specifically, eugene) and hurt the feelings of the fans. They are not all just "fanboys", but - although biased - also much more knowledgeable about the artist and similar artists of the genre. Regarding the list: So you are really saying that these artists (that you even call "brilliant") all were wrong about Arjen. Don't you at least accept the possibility that you might be wrong, and that he in fact has at least produced a single work of genius? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:41
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[/QUOTE] Metal is VERY MUCH my cup of tea, and that may influence my judgment. But knowing that, I have become very careful when talking about music that is NOT my cup of tea. I would never post in a Canterbury thread that I think Caravan are overrated, just because I don't like Canterbury. BTW, ordered In The Land Of Pink And Grey ... can't wait for it to arrive. What I'm saying is that when you bash an artist because you don't like the genre, you make a fool out of yourself (not talking about you specifically, eugene) and hurt the feelings of the fans. They are not all just "fanboys", but - although biased - also much more knowledgeable about the artist and similar artists of the genre. Regarding the list: So you are really saying that these artists (that you even call "brilliant") all were wrong about Arjen. Don't you at least accept the possibility that you might be wrong, and that he in fact has at least produced a single work of genius? [/QUOTE] To be honest Mike, no. As you know, I have responded to your metal threads, as I enjoy DT, SG, Symph X, Threshold, Evergrey, FW, Vanden Plas and so on, just like you do. But I just CANNOT see the fascination with Ayreon, and it never ceases to amaze me, the list of names who guest on his albums. To me, its pompous, overblown, synthetic, formulaic and frankly quite ridiculous... 'File under Space Metal' my rectum! People sometimes have a pop at Symphony X for being characateurs of the genre (which I can understand) though they are nothing compared to this project, which frankly does none of us any favours... sorry if I've offended anyone, but that's MHO. ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:44
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MikeEnRegalia, First of all it is not about bashing or defending any particular artist or genre. it is about expressing of opinion which some may agree with, and some may not. I have listened to all Lucassen albums and even purchased "the Human Equation" because I liked it. Therefore I consider myself in a position to participate in discussion of his works If you read my opinion as bashing or offending or hurting your feelings, althought it was not intended, it is up to you. All these artists in your (or rather Lucassen's) list (many of them are brilliant) do not have to be right or wrong about Arjen. They have accepted his invitation and done their good job well paid, but it does not necessarilly mean that the outcome became a masterpiece. I always accept a possibility of being wrong, therefore I often add "in my opinion" to what I am saying. And my opinion is that Arjen Lucassen despite many talents involved in his works still has not produced one work of Genius. Also when I am saying that metal is not my cup of tea, I try to relay a message that what in my opinion not a masterpiece, in opinion of metal-fan may well be. Hope it's clear and no one got hurt ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:48
"File under Space Metal" ... I think that sticker was only for the Star One project. As I have stated many times, it's this "pompous, overblown" quality that I like most about Ayreon. When I'm in the mood for bold music, they are just what I need. When I'm in the mood for understatement, I might listen to some Porcupine Tree, or Camel, or Robert Fripp, ... Ayreon are not for everyone. Why can't we just agree on THAT?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 17:53
Well, I'm not hurt ... at least everything's healing nicely. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:01
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My rating of this disc Into Electric Castle *** Why? Because there are parts where I feel like something is missing. Its missing that oh... I can't really tell you, but its missing that something. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:02
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I like it. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 18:03
Didn't you just post in my prog metal poll, with Ayreon as your #3? If so, what Ayreon album would you prefer? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: dropForge
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 21:24
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I've missed nothing. |
Posted By: grandoleopry
Date Posted: June 30 2005 at 21:25
| Hey thanks for the input. It helps not to be thinned skinned. You're always going to get a difference of opinion. I wish the lurkers out there would take a chance and write something once in awhile. Sure you get flamed sometimes but the comradarie is worth it. Do you all realize prog lovers are such a small group that we stick together even when there's two of us and three opinions! So thanks to all for answering, even you eugune...No I'm kidding. Great post actually! |
Posted By: grandoleopry
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 07:32
| I just found out why the guys on prog archives are hating Aryeon one moment and raving about the Human Equation the Next. Jame Labrie is on it. Enough said. I would now be shocked out of my gourd if it was even as good as Electric Castle now, considering all the DT Nazis out there. Better? No chance. Nobody but the Beatles or maybe Tull could do something that good twice. I have been listening to music a long time and an album like Electric Castle comes around only a few times in a lifetime. Especially nowadays...Closed minded maybe, open minded maybe not. Empty minded? Never! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 08:19
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It is really as good as the Electric Castle, but at the same time very different. But hearing you talk about "DT Nazis", I doubt that you could appreciate it for what it is ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: grandoleopry
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 08:45
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It is really as good as the Electric Castle, but at the same time very different. But hearing you talk about "DT Nazis", I doubt that you could appreciate it for what it is ...
MikeEnRegalia. I'm a little harsh on some of these guys because of their absolute unquestioning worship of their favorite this and favorite that. Sometimes they are so subjective they wouldn't know if the guy was singing or vomiting. So when they go from cold to hot on an artist, as in this case (Castle-problematic, Human Equation- masterful- comments) I get suspicious. In this case, as soon as I saw James Labrie's name on the album, it all but sealed it (knowing the penchant for DT worship at this site). So I stand by my statement. But never fear, if it's as good or better, I'll know it regardless of who's on it...As a matter of fact, I'll make it a point to comment on it after I listen to it. I will be objective...  ------------- Dreams. Gabor Szabo (1968) |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:10
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Into The Electric Castle is by far the best album from Ayreon (disregarding The Human Equation, since I only heard it once, and wasn't impressed) It's a cross between neo-prog and progressive metal, with a "spacey" atmosphere dripping from every melody and rhythm. Mostly bombastic and over the top, so hardly any subtelty, but I like bombastics, when done properly. Great keyboard soloing (Arjan, Nolan, Valentine, Scherpenzeel) Brilliant album from a heavy perspective, maybe a bit over the top if you prefer more subtle music ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:18
If you only heard it once, you can't possibly understand it. My first contact with Ayreon/Into The Electric Castle was The Castle Hall, which nearly made me turn away from Ayreon completely. I'm glad that I didn't delete the song after downloading it. Eventually I noticed that I liked certain parts of it, that made me listen to the complete album in the record store ... and now, about 2 years later, I own all Ayreon albums. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:30
I think you have smelled too many gasoline vapors Tuxxy. Perhaps I would feel differently as you do if my 1st experience with Ayreon was Into the Electric Castle, but I doubt it....I probably would have not purchased another one throwing into my...Okay but nothing special catagory. Lucky for me I purchased The Human Equation 1st. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:30
That's why I disregard The Human Equation in the previous statement. I can't judge that album, so untill I have listened The Human Equation more properly ITEC is the best Ayreon album. re. Gdub. I haven't been sniffin' gasoline (haven't worked in two days so my mind is clear again), I just like the heavy bombast of ITEC, can't judge on THE, untill I have the album can I
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 09:33
I guess I misunderstood the word "disregard" ... nevermind. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: August 16 2005 at 15:39
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It was fun to read your "argumentation" on Ayreon, I myself like both
Universal migrator and Human Equation immensely. I'm really looking
forward to getting Electric Castle now...! I'd like to point out one thing about the use of impressive guest vocalists. Of course it doesn't guarantee that the songs will be awesome, but on Human Equation it is absolutely wonderful for the concept. Having each character performed by a guest vocalists really makes them believable (especially as the vocalists do a great job!). When the characters have a unique voice it is easy to tell them apart and the story really shines through. It really is a Human Equation. Having said that, it is of course the music is what makes Ayreon so good. ------------- Currently listening to: - Andromeda - Pagan's Mind - Kamelot |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 16 2005 at 15:42
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I think that on Electric Castle the voices match the characters even a little better. There is even more variety, extreme growling (Death), the hippie (Lucassen), the Highlander (Fish!), the guy from the future (Damian Wilson), ... wonderful. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: August 16 2005 at 15:57
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 16 2005 at 16:17
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You're right ... I don't want to give away too much. Electric Castle is about a group of human beings from many periods (egyptian, medieval, 20th century, future) who have to participate in a weird experiment performed by some kind of alien entity ... Edit: Yeah, come to think of it - these characters portray the different emotions. The scientist from the future represents reason, the barbarian represents anger, the hippie represents joy, the egyptian sorrow etc. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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