...and Then There Were Three vs Duke
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79648
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 09:56
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Topic: ...and Then There Were Three vs Duke
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: ...and Then There Were Three vs Duke
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 16:35
NO... ANOTHER GENESIS POLL   Hello i am Aginor and i would like to know which of this two albums gives you tho most pleasure and fun to listen to, what album lays its magical sounds around your brain and paralize you more, which is most colourfull, most facinating and most daring album. which of these two albums spark most energy, creativaty and passion, -------------  
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Replies:
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 16:39
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What if I deem Abacab or Shapes as Prog in some form? ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 16:46
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I do also, but these to albums are "supposed" to be the final two "real" prog albums in classic form, I regard also abacab and shapes to be proggy albums but duke and adttwt are more, lets say, organic, even thogh Three markes the last album with Mellotron, for Genesis, -------------
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 16:46
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The 1st option!
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 16:51
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Neither of them.
Genesis suffered a massive stroke after The Lamb (losing Gabriel, the band's brain) and a fatal cardiac haemorrhage after Wind and Wuthering (losing Hackett, the band's heart).
After that, all their music is pop - good pop in some cases, but not really prog and nowhere near the standard of the Trespass to Wind and Wuthering era. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:07
| Duke is very good, but ATTWT is brilliant. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:14
| Duke. |
Posted By: Heathcliffe
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:30
| And then there were three - so many great melodies on that album. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:37
| Duke by a little bit. They are both good efforts, but they marked the beginning of their pop influences becoming more prevalent than their prog influences and where I became less interested in their music. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:44
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And then there were three... ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: unforgivable74
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:52
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Duke is a "sh*t sandwich". The first two tracks and final two tracks are great but in between, God help us. AND IT HAS MISUNDERSTANDING ON IT. ATTWT is consistently wonderful right up until the final track. I don't think Genesis suffered too bad after Gabriel. ATOTT and WAW were awesome albums. I also love Seconds Out. ------------- Laughs as I clean my teeth, laughs as I rub at my eyes. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 17:58
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As far as I recall Duke has significantly less cheese on it. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:02
| @poll Nope. |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:20
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Duke (and I also agree that it is not their final prog album  )------------- http://theprogressiveweb.blogspot.de" rel="nofollow - Visit me in Second Life to talk about music. |
Posted By: Thandrus
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:25
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... And Then There Were Three: I find this album by all means brilliant. even the band as mighty as Genesis has few songs as beautiful and inspirational as Undertow.. Every song there is of high quality. However, Duke is very hit-or-miss album, alternating some really good moments (Duke's Travel / Duke's End) with a bit horrendous ones :S (Misunderstanding) And what's, on global scale, most important, is the transition in overall sound between these two albums. Whereas "ATTWT" has a still Classic Genesis feelling and instrumentation (Well, yeah, minus Hackettian virtuoso guitar, but still retaining Banks' vintage keyboards) Duke often feels too much plastic. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:26
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Duke ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 18:35
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Duke.
I agree that "Duke" was their last album with progressive rock elements. Only parts of the album are "prog," IMO. Still, a great album. Much more interesting than ATTWT. ------------- 
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Posted By: glenn_ecko
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:33
| Voted for attw3, though the song Duchess from Duke is probably my favorite post-Hackett song by them. |
Posted By: Navegador
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:44
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Really hard choice. I like both of them! Duke is a good album; even though it has some bad tracks, the first two and the last two are amazing. But the first prog album I've ever heard was ATTWT, and I still like it, so it's my choice. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 19:44
I think Genesis is interesting up unitl Invisible Touch and maybe Dance album, From Genesis to Revelation and Calling all Stations are uninteresting for me, personly. I only care for albums between Trespass and We Can't Dance -------------
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Formentera Lady wrote:Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 20:55
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Both are awesome, but went with Duke. E ------------- 
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 20:58
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 10 2011 at 21:06
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. . . 3 ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 00:29
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ATTWT is my least favourite Genesis album. Even worse than Calling All Stations ------------- 
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 00:44
Same here while Duke is a masterpiece that I rank with SEBTP, TOTT and Foxtrot..
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 01:06
| I like both albums. Duke has the better material but has too many weak songs to make it a complete work. And Then There Were Three has no weak tracks and has more even quality imo so I voted for that. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 03:12
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I would give both albums a three star rating when I should review them. Still this is a wide range and within this range I prefer Duke. ATTWT has four or five good songs and the remainder does not pop up above the level of mediocrity. ------------- 
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Posted By: dedokras
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 04:03
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ATTWT on the strength of Down and Out, Burning Rope and The Lady Lies, a few other nice songs as well...
------------- http://mlyk.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: dave-the-rave
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 09:15
| They both kind of blow. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 09:55
dear esky, boring pop is boring pop no matter how you are trying to explain all this. after gabriel and hackett musically everything went wrong, especially if you like prog. if you love low level pop with funny walks you probably feel very happy. no votes this time. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:16
This. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:22
I went with Three to keep things going neck and neck. Duke gets a few points shaved off for having too many sappy relationship songs.  I might also add that when Duke came out, I had become totally absorbed by earlier Genesis that when a friend played Misunderstanding for me (I think it was on the radio) I was certain that there was no way in hell that could have been a Genesis song. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 11:23
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I like both, but Duke is just a good album. ATTWT is a fantastic album, my fourth-favorite by Genesis just after Foxtrot, SEBTP and A trick of the tail. It is magical. ------------- 
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 12:57
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 13:13
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 13:54
Thirded! On another note, I think it´s become somewhat of a cliché to knock Phil Collins era Genesis, and while I think they made better music beforehand, this subject is now beaten to death. Seems like every thread concerning Genesis, there has to be some guy telling us, what a travesty they turned into after PG and Hackett left  Whatever people feel about Phil Collins approach to making music, I do think the guy is very sympathetic - well at least from the interviews I´ve read and watched. And now it seems, he is in a bit of a slum. He has back problems and will probably never play the drums again, and some people around here just keep bashing the guy. I don´t know if he reads any of these forums, and maybe it´s the old western fan in me, but I really detest kicking a beaten man when he´s down and out. No matter how you slice it - the guy was - and probably still is a fantastic drummer. I´m gonna put on Brand X - Unorthodox Behavior right now. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 13:56
| No, it's become somewhat of a cliché to discuss Genesis at all. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 14:04
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^Touché ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 14:07
I very nearly agree with that accept that SEBTP goes down my list a bit (mainly because of Battle Of Epping Forest) so would probably make ATTWT 3rd and SEBTP 4th. |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 15:22
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ATTWT for me, a great album!! I've always found Duke very abrasive and tinny sounding. Great songs but I don't like the production. ATTWT sounds warmer and has more depth to the production. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 15:37
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El Duke -------------   
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 15:52
| Voted Duke---I like ATTWT very much but the guitar playing is not fluid and sounds stiff which sorta ruins it for me. Which is a shame because there are some great songs which would have been masterpieces if god Hackett was on the record. By Duke-- Mike was imitating god Hackett much better. |
Posted By: criticdrummer94
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 16:37
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Behind the Lines/Duchess/Guide Vocal/Turn it on Again/Duke's Travels/Duke's End that's my reason
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Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 17:49
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One REALLY LOUD listen to Down And Out from And Then There Were Three would convince anyone in this poll! "right between the eyes"..
------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: July 11 2011 at 18:04
I don't think it has convinced any more than half here. Me? I think Down and Out is better than most of TOTT and WW!  Phil's drumming is outrageous.------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 16:12
Not a "Petey lover" at all; just a long term fan of the band who saw their standard gradually slide after Selling England and plummet after Wind & Wuthering. The Lamb itself is not a great but merely a very good album in my opinion; the concept, which was entirely Gabriel's idea, and the lyrics, also entirely his, work fine but there's too much filler and it lasts too long. (And in my post I also included Trick of the Tail and (to a lesser extent) Wind & Wuthering in their golden era so to state that I view Gabriel's departure as a dividing line between good and bad is ludicrous. I suggest you read and analyse posts properly before writing such crass simplifications).
But the stresses in the band are evident at times with lyricist Gabriel clearly wanting to pull the band one way and the composers (mainly Banks) another. Gabriel had PLENTY more to give (look at his solo music for evidence), but it wasn't compatible with what the others wanted. In the same way, Hackett was eternally frustrated because he was writing amazing music which the band didn't want to use; he had to fight to get anything of his on an album.
Collins is also a reasonable vocalist but nowhere near as interesting as Gabriel and this shows on TOTT and W&W. But the final straw was the departure of Hackett, the one member who was determined to keep the music progressive. Banks and Rutherford went with Collins in pursuing a more commercial approach; Hackett has said many times that he wasn't comfortable with this or the refusal to include his highly progressive songs, so he left.
If you think I'm a Gabriel fanboy, you're wrong. I regard Hackett as the member whose loss was the final straw.
And as for "worthy thoughts", I think you're rather arrogant to think that your simplistic view is in any way more informed or sophisticated than mine. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: July 12 2011 at 21:47
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Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: July 13 2011 at 05:15
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Duke for me, but ATTWT has got dome great moments on it! ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: Frayz
Date Posted: April 08 2016 at 11:17
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Of course ATTWT. Duke is excellent album too, but i think is more poppy than ATTWT, and more inconsistent. Some tracks are excellent like Duke's Travels/Duke's end, Cul-De-Sac and Man of Our Times, other tracks are very good like Behind the Lines/Duchess/Guide Vocal and Heathaze. But some tracks like Misunderstanding, Alone Tonight, and Please don't ask are just pop, boring ballad songs (not really bad, but they drop the quality of this album). ATTWT is more consistent, this album have some excellent tracks (Down & Out, Burning Rope, The Lady Lies, Undertow, Deep in the Motherlode). Others are ranging between good and very good tracks, even Follow You Follow Me served pleasant ending to this album. IMHO that song is one of the best Genesis pop song ever released. |
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: April 08 2016 at 11:38
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And Then There Three is the last Genesis album I enjoy from beginning to end. After that some very good songs and some boring ones (but I don't like W&W much if we talk about the Hackett era). ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: April 08 2016 at 12:36
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Duke for me ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqf2srRfppHAslEmHBn8QP6d_eoanh0eW" rel="nofollow - My compositions |
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: April 08 2016 at 13:11
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Then There Were Three for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 06:36
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And Then There Were Three. Il Duce was pretty good too. I must say a few Genesis albums could have benefitted from outstanding material from the guys whoo couldn't get their material on board for whatever reason. Even the Genesis number Inside And Out should have been on W and W or Three (the 2 extra tracks on the box set along with the demagnetised tape heads - or whatever he used to get the thing to sound listenable able makes it even better. Imagine if Spectral Mornings and In The Air Tonight had been given the Genesis appearance. Perhaps if the CD format had been around then things may have been a whole lot different. No format limitations in sonic or content quantity. Genesis are one of the few bands in any sub genre of rock music that benefit from more full versions of their albums - the eighties era albums generally work better once all the extras get complied from the box sets. IMHO Collins might be a better vocalist than Gabriel but for Genesis Gabriel had a more interesting series of characters that brought pre-Trick material to life. On thing for sure, it's not the singer that brought the CAS era it's the change of drummer I think. All those years of Phil the drummer then no Phil. Has prog rock been defined yet? (Heh.) |
Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 10:40
| ATTWT |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 12:22
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Puke because there's a few hard-to-sit-through songs off of 'Three compared to just a couple off of Puke, 'Three doesn't have Heathaze, and on the Puke filmed commentary from the 2006(?) CD/DVD release, Collins said that the album was the first time his drums sounded good on record (or something to that effect). ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 13 2016 at 16:02
Duke man.. by many a light year! By far the best album I thought Genesis did  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 14 2016 at 14:05
I just lost my lunch.........  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 14 2016 at 16:46
bah... there is no accounting for people's tastes is there. I've never understood what you all see in those earlier albums... then again.. a LOT of people don't. I just happened to end up in the one place on the internet where their boring, sopheric, amateurish attempts to do serious arty music is worshipped and beloved.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 14 2016 at 22:53
Are you sure you are talking about early Genesis or all that RPI junk you listen to..? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 15 2016 at 00:30
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Three is a great album but Duke sounds better. Much better. And that counts. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: April 02 2018 at 03:09
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Duke! ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: April 02 2018 at 03:18
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...And There Were Three ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: April 02 2018 at 04:49
| Duke. |