Advice: VDGG and KC
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Topic: Advice: VDGG and KC
Posted By: Joren
Subject: Advice: VDGG and KC
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 13:36
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I need your advice. I have one album by King Crimson (Court) and one by Van Der Graaf Generator (H To He). I enjoy both, they're great! But now I don't know, for both bands, which album to buy next.. Pawn Hearts and Lark Tongues? or Godbluff and Red? or..? |
Replies:
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 13:44
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------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
The first option first, the second, second!Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 13:48
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so I had the right impressions about their most important albums? all thanks to the archives |
Posted By: Dan Bobrowski
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 14:10
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I'm new to VDGG, but KC I've been a fan of for years (decades?). Crimson went through many phases. For the new listener, I would suggest getting the best from each phases. You already have Phase 1 covered. Phase 2 - Islands (It stands alone, dismiss Earthbound, not essential and poorly recorded.... completist only) Phase 3 - Lark's Tongues / Starless / Red / USA (live) "Lark's Tongues" is the first of this phase and (I) consider it to be the best, however all three are incredible. Phase 4 - Discipline / Beat / Three of a Perfect Pair "Discipline" is the one from that series which says it all. "B" and "ToaPP" are more of the same. Phase 5 - Thraak (double trio album) Phase 6 - Happy WWYHTBHW (EP) and Power 2 Believe (heard both, don't own either) If you liked Thraak, you may like these also. Summation: ITCOTCK - You Own Islands (Save for later, money's scarce) Lark's Tongue (Get it) Discipline (Buy After LTIA) Thraak and after - (Only if you like Discipline. Belew's voice may or may not be to your taste.) |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 14:19
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ok I've just ordered Pawn Hearts I'll order Lark Tongues soon! Thanks for your help! |
Posted By: progchain
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 14:58
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Everything of both bands!!!!! Hurry! |
Posted By: Marcelo
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 15:01
I would start with Godbluff and Still Life, both VDGG masterpieces, and after with KC's Lizard (one of the best IMHO). 
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Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 15:25
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Pawn Hearts was the right decision...Lark's Tongues as well...you'll love it... ------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 17:07
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RED is KC's masterpiece. PAWN HEARTS is VDGG's masterpiece.
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: bityear
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 17:41
kinda my opinion as well, Lucas. 
Pawn Hearts is awesome, but I guess they were a quite consistent band, so any purchase might be of pleasure. KC are more up-and-down, with HIGH peaks but some quite bad stuff as well.
I agree, for the most part...I think Islands is definitely to prefer to Lizard, but it's not a very enjoyable album...the tracks are, um, odd in their place. Don't know how to describe it.  But, the last two tracks makes it worth a purchase! That's WONDERFUL stuff, KC at their most neo-classical.
I like Larks' Tongues In Aspic way better than I like Starless and Bible Black, LTIA is a SUCCESSFUL improv album, SABB, well, it has some high points, and is moody, and is not a bad album at all, LTIA is just better, and crrrunchier.  Red is my fave of the three, though, but you might very well get LTIA before getting Red.
Discipline is indeed the best of the 80's studio records, Three Of A Perfect Pair comes second, beat comes last but is quite good anyway (it has "Heartbeat"!). All the songs comes to real life on the Absent Lovers live CD, though - that's the album I'd pick if anybody asked me for my fave live album. An awesome performance, and the songs just get better in every sense. Thrak is the album in between the 80's minimalism and the 90's improvised Projeckts, it has some great tracks, but is rather average in my book. The latercoming Construcktion Of Light is, um, weird, and not necessarily in a good way...the vocals are odd..I don't like it yet, but it may grow on me. However, The Power To Believe is a MONSTROUS album.  It's just mighty, has heavy riffs and moody tracks and cool time signatures and guitar interplays and other cool stuff, it's one of my fave Crimson albums!
Their sophomore album In The Wake Of Poseidon isn't at all as bad as some say - actually, I think it's more consistent than the debut (I'm not that big a fan of Moonchild), and I even like it a bit more. One half of it is a rip-off of the first album, but there's some new kind of music there as well. Definitely underrated. You got my opinion about almost the entire Crimson discography there, now don't you dare forget to tell us what you think of the albums you'll get!  ------------- www.geocities.com/joelbitars |
danbo wrote:Posted By: Glass-Prison
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 17:48
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Lark's tongue was a wise choice, and I think Red should be next on your list. As for VDGG, I haven't listened to enough of their material to judge... but it's all good!
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: May 11 2004 at 20:49
| I don't know enough about VDGG to comment on them, but for KC you should probably go for Red (my personal favourite) or In the Wake of Poseidon (sounds more like Court... than any others they've done since). Larks' Tongues is a good choice as well, but it can be very tough to get into. I'd get Thrak before it. It's a very underrated album, although it's a bit heavier than most KC. |
Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 06:26
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O.k. now we will list the steps for VdGG
You have:H to He...
Next one: Pawn Hearts - their masterpiece one of the best prog albums IMO (Lemmings is awesome, just like the rest
)third one: Goldbluff - really good but not as good as H to He and Pawn Hearts IMO...but really close
fourth: Still Life - same as goldbluff
fifth: Gold Record - I will get this one today, let's see... ------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: The Analog Kid
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 06:57
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King Crimson, to start with: Larks Tongues / Red / Discipline / Thrak. If you like it: Starless and bible black / The Power to believe |
Posted By: The Analog Kid
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 06:59
| Oh, AND Wake of Poseidon, it's almost as good as In The Court |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 07:50
I found them to be practically the same album (which is no bad thing.......), there are tracks on 'Court' which are virtually duplicated on 'Poseidon' ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 08:34
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The original question was : I need your advice. I have one album by King Crimson (Court) and one by Van Der Graaf Generator (H To He). I enjoy both, they're great! But now I don't know, for both bands, which album to buy next..
While I'll accept this example is good advice, I do think a "health warning" should be included. King Crimson are perhaps the only band in the last 35 years that continues to literally progress. Hence any new listener taking up any one of several suggestions above, might be shocked by the quantum leaps and significant differences in Krimson records with time and line-up changes, to point of thinking he/she is not listening to the same band (in fact, Fripp is often the only common nominator).
And as to Van der Graaf Generator, I'm biassed towards "At Least We Can Wave To Each Other" - being the only VDGG album I could afford for many years - and there is some musical relationship between albums 2 to 5, i.e. they wouldn't unduly shock not having totally unexpected changes from one to another. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 10:04
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THANKS TO YOU ALL! As I said before, I ordered Pawn Hearts. I will order Godbluff, Lark's Tongues and Red as soon as possible but I also want some albums by Mr. Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Soft Machine (Third) and Jethro Tull. money money money! |
Posted By: Glass-Prison
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 11:57
| If you wish to get into Zappa, I would first recommend Overnite Sensation or Apostrophe', or perhaps Hot Rats from the early era. You Are What You Is is a bit more straightforward, but nonetheless a great album. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 12:51
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Quote: but I also want some albums by Mr. Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Soft Machine (Third) and Jethro Tull. money money money!
Of course there are at least three Zappa albums with Don Van Vliet in residence.
I personal feel that is very little of Beefheart that is NOT interesting, whether it is the deconstruct of the Howlin' Wolf type Chess blues "Gimme Dat Harp Boys" (White Stripe, eat your hearts out), the post psychedelia of "Mirrorman" through to the avante rock of the late 70's and early 80's - "Lick My Decals..." through to "Icecream For Crow". Obviously with "TMR" sleeve as your "logo" you know about that record. One complaint: Beefheart's roadie, a young Gary Lucas does not play enough on the last couple of studio albums - although his most discernable guitar sound is to be heard on the title track of "Icecream for Crow". Lucas has now reformed and touring the Van Vliet approved Magic Band. And to complete connections; Gary Lucas hopes sooner or later to record some tunes from early Soft Machine, and currently is collaborating with Hugh Hopper.
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Posted By: bityear
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 13:24
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Actually, Frank Zappa is the only artist which I'd advise starting with a compilation. Because, "Strictly Commercial" consists of some of his funniest, best and most easy-listened songs, and if you don't like that album, you probably won't like anything else either. Because, Zappa is sometimes a tough listening that demands concentration in order to be fully appreciated, and it's good to already be positively biased towards him before starting with those oddball albums. ------------- www.geocities.com/joelbitars |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 13:28
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Glass-Prison, Bityear, thanks for your advice, but Zappa doens't need an introduction for me, I already have 20 of his albums (including Hot Rats, Apostrophe and all the songs from Over-Nite Sensation). I just want to buy MORE ZAPPA! By the way: I just downloaded a TV-appearance of King Crimson, playing 'Dinasaur'. Great song! |
Posted By: bityear
Date Posted: May 12 2004 at 14:56
Ah, you fooled me!! 
should've guessed after seeing your signatire-pic, though!
"Dinosaur" is a good track, yeah, but there's definitely better, even on the "Thrak" album! Personally, I hold "The Power To Beilieve" way above "Thrak", they're a little bit similar, but TPTB is heavier, chrunchier, and has cooler and better songs. So, basically, they're totally different albums. ------------- www.geocities.com/joelbitars |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 13 2004 at 09:18
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I see... *adds TPTB to the "TO BUY" list* |
Posted By: Wayman
Date Posted: May 15 2004 at 02:06
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Joren,
If you liked Dinosaur, you will love 'THRAK' and 'The Power to Believe'. Dinosaur is a good song but one of the weaker tracks on THRAK. Stay away from 'The ConstruKction of Light,' arguably Crimso's weakest album. TPTB achieves what TCOL failed to. 'Red' and LTIA are both excellent albums, though I prefer 'Red'. 'Islands' is certainly not the masterpiece that Fripp thought it was. The title track is beautiful but drags; 'Formentera Lady' isn't particularly strong; 'Prelude: Song of the Gulls' is only interesting because it is played by a rock band -- as a Classical piece it is weak. 'Sailor's Tale,' 'The Letters' and 'Ladies of the Road' are solid, perhaps worth the price of the album. With repeated listenings, 'Islands' endears itself, but many other Crimso records should be acquired first. Personally, I love 'In the Wake of Poseidon'' and play it more often than the debut. If it were not for its similarity to ITCOTCK, it would doubtlessly have been hailed as a masterpeice. Wayman. |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 15 2004 at 13:33
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thanks for your advice! and...
welcome aboard! |
Posted By: moonchild
Date Posted: May 15 2004 at 20:13
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YES. That is the one to get after In the Court of the Crimson King because of the similarity in style.
------------- In the Wake of Poseidon |