"BEYOND THE BEGINNING" DOCUMENTARY

• Extended edit of unseen rehearsal film from 1973
  
• Extended edit of unseen Brands Hatch celebrity motor race featuring all of ELP
  
• Extended edit of exclusive new interview with Bob Moog, talking at length about his involvement with Keith Emerson and ELP's sound
  
• The story of the album covers. Sequence looking at the extraordinary history of ELP's album covers

firth_of_Fifth wrote: ?9.99 What's that in dollars then? I can barely afford it, being on government benefits and all... (the life of a musician eh?)

I don't know really know the currency exchange rate between Ireland and The US?

firth_of_Fifth wrote: It's fantastic, The rehearsal footage is excellent too, seeing how they learnt a song, God If only the bands i've been in were a quarter as competant! I'd seriously reccomend this for anyone. The layout is fantastic, The only major downfall that I am aware of (and everyone else too) Is that there are some songs from the first disc also on the second, but don't let that worry you. The interview with the group is fascinating! Get it, you lot!

I would definitely love to  It looks so scrupulous.

Don't you guys ever pay attention to anything going on around here... I've been touting this dvd for months now... in the news section...

It can be had on Amazon.uk in the PAL version now for 14.99... and it doesn't come out here in the States in NTSC version until Aug.

I just purchased it online there - I only hope its better than some of their other DVD releases (principally that Inside... docu-farce).  I haven't listened to ELP in quite some time, after finding a load of other music to enjoy, but I'm looking forward to re-exploring them through this new release.  I always found them better to watch than to listen to (!) and I love old 70s footage of these bands.  Indeed, last night I stayed up til 2am watching every PFM snippet I could find - just amazing.  Even better after a few glasses of red.

Thanks for the tip-off though .  I'm afraid 3Fates that I completely missed your announcement, and had never heard of this DVD before today - perhaps the site should do more to promote such popular releases, maybe in the form of scrolling headlines on the title page or something!!  Quite often I dont have time to access all of the different forums and glean every bit of news going.  Just a thought Mani, if you're reading this....!

I shall watch Beyond The Beginning with interest and will review it for the site.  By the way, I just paid £12 for it.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: I just purchased it online there - I only hope its better than some of their other DVD releases (principally that Inside... docu-farce).  I haven't listened to ELP in quite some time, after finding a load of other music to enjoy, but I'm looking forward to re-exploring them through this new release.  I always found them better to watch than to listen to (!) and I love old 70s footage of these bands.  Indeed, last night I stayed up til 2am watching every PFM snippet I could find - just amazing.  Even better after a few glasses of red. Thanks for the tip-off though .  I'm afraid 3Fates that I completely missed your announcement, and had never heard of this DVD before today - perhaps the site should do more to promote such popular releases, maybe in the form of scrolling headlines on the title page or something!!  Quite often I dont have time to access all of the different forums and glean every bit of news going.  Just a thought Mani, if you're reading this....! I shall watch Beyond The Beginning with interest and will review it for the site.  By the way, I just paid £12 for it.

Where from @ £12?

david insabella is a little cock drainer and likes to squeeze the scrotum

emoemu wrote: david insabella is a little cock drainer and likes to squeeze the scrotum

good thing to know..

emoemu wrote: david insabella is a little cock drainer and likes to squeeze the scrotum

Seriously, you act like you are 5 years old and just learned your first cuss words and I'm being serious. Your ignorance is worse than that of Black Metal elitists.

Well Amazon says mine has been shipped.. so I guess I'll be getting it any day now.  Of course, Karney has already gotten it and has been feeding me pictures so I don't get too crazy about not having it yet...

i am DEFINATELY getting this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmm, birthday August 1st..........

The Cal Jam footage is great especially KE9 3rd Impression.They've done a great job cleaning up the sound and picture quality of just about everything on it.

HOWEVER its worth stressing that this is NOT a concert DVD.There is no complete concert footage.Even the Cal Jam stuff is for the most part heavily edited.Its a collection of videos and live concert performances plus interviews.Apart from the KE9 track I can't see myself playing it that much to be honest.It also doesn't compare favourably with the Led Zep 2 DVD set as it doesn't flow as well.I think this is for die hard ELP fans only.

Well, perhaps its aimed more at part-time fans like myself, because I love it!  I especially like the documentary, which I imagine shed no more light on what the real fans already knew, but some of the quotes are hilarious.

Keith on the break-up: "I think we were TOO good.  Maybe we should've f**ked up a bit more..."

And the Tarkus debate was brilliant.  My respect for Emerson just tripled!  I thought Greg was a little conceited, and played to the camera a bit ("...but you know, I love those guys").  Keith was clearly uncomfortable with some of the talk, and had to try hard to maintain a cool head.  I loved his shrug of the shoulders about the Lucky Man solo that wasn't so much written down, as a live experiment that they taped.  Ultimately they all came across really well, even Greg despite the primadonna business head stuff...

Good insights from the people around them too.  As for the ELP in Pictures bits, its everything I hoped for - most of the good bits with alot of the "fans-only" dross cut out.  And my girlfriend loves the "I Believe In Father Christmas" video, which she'd never seen before.  If I had one complaint, I would like to have seen some of the tracks from Trilogy (it being my favourite album).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont remember a single one, other than in the DVD menus.  But all in, a superb buy, and I shall be raking through it for some time yet. 

Emerson is a genius.

Palmer is a genie

Lake is a Guinness...

Lake is a God....

I just got my copy......... and he's looking like the angel from heaven...

So I'm gonna go lock myself in front of the main tv dvd.... with my diet pepsi and some nachos with guacamole... and I'll see you guys next week sometime.........

BYE............

BTW... I got something else this week thats blowing my mind............ I just couldn't be happier.. well except maybe if I got tickets to see Floyd at Live8...

raindance wrote: Carl's next tour is called 'A Celebration of ELP Music' & he's playing right up the road from me in South Yorkshire. Can't wait!

i have to move to england

carl palmer is definately my favorite drummer

threefates wrote: Lake is a God.... I just got my copy......... and he's looking like the angel from heaven... So I'm gonna go lock myself in front of the main tv dvd.... with my diet pepsi and some nachos with guacamole... and I'll see you guys next week sometime......... BYE............   BTW... I got something else this week thats blowing my mind............ I just couldn't be happier.. well except maybe if I got tickets to see Floyd at Live8...

How did you get that ticket?  I cant find them anywhere - even the Lake website is refusing to admit he is touring!! 

Could you possibly ask Greg to send me one too please? 

As for looking like an angel, yes he looked great in the 1970s - but of the three, he was the one my girlfriend didn't recognise in the recent interviews.  I thought he looked better than in previous interviews - has he quit smoking?  Almost every shot on the DVD sees him taking a drag between bass runs.  Keith even mentions it in recalling Lake's first impression of Tarkus (which caused me to laugh out loud....!)

threefates wrote: Lake is a God.... I just got my copy......... and he's looking like the angel from heaven... So I'm gonna go lock myself in front of the main tv dvd.... with my diet pepsi and some nachos with guacamole... and I'll see you guys next week sometime......... BYE............   BTW... I got something else this week thats blowing my mind............ I just couldn't be happier.. well except maybe if I got tickets to see Floyd at Live8...

You're actually coming to Britain to see him? Now thats dedication!

firth_of_Fifth wrote: got this off some website as typing it is too much..but it looks amazing... DISC 1 - Before The Beginning Promo Videos: America (The Nice) - 1969 Beat Club Fire (The Crazy World of Arthur Brown) - 1969 Beat Club 21st Schizoid Man (King Crimson) - 1969 ELP in Pictures Take A Pebble (1970 The Beat Club) Knife Edge (1970 Belgium) Rondo / Pictures (Montage from Isle of Wight performances 1970) Rondo (1970 Belgium) Lucky Man (1970 Belgium) Tarkus / Eruption (Japanese Promo) Hoedown (1973 Manticore) Tank (1973 Manticore) Still You Turn Me On (1974 Cal Jam) Karn Evil 9 (1974 Cal Jam) I Believe In Father Christmas (1975 Original Promo) Honky Tonk Train Blues (1976 Oscar Peterson Show) Tocatta (1976 Aquarius) Fanfare For The common Man (1977) Pirates (1977 Montreal) Tiger In The Spotlight (1977 Pop Rock) Watching Over You (1978 Memphis) Tarkus (1992 Royal Albert Hall) Touch And Go (1997 Budapest) DISC 2 - California Jam 1974. Full 44-minute performance from the monster one-day festival with ELP's never released headlining performance: Tocatta Still You Turn Me On Lucky Man Piano improvisations Take A Pebble Karn Evil 9 1st impression part 2 Karn Evil 9 3rd impression Spinning Piano Great Gates of Kiev "BEYOND THE BEGINNING" DOCUMENTARY EXTRAS Extended edit of unseen rehearsal film from 1973 Extended edit of unseen Brands Hatch celebrity motor race featuring all of ELP Extended edit of exclusive new interview with Bob Moog, talking at length about his involvement with Keith Emerson and ELP's sound The story of the album covers. Sequence looking at the extraordinary history of ELP's album covers

*drools*

I WANT IT!

Here's my review of the new ELP 2-DVD set:

This 2-DVD set, with a total of circa 250 minutes of video, is a must-have for fans of the band. I would also recommend it to any progressive rock fan interested in the genre’s history, and to those who do not realise (or who doubt) how popular the band was. I’m not going to reel off all the facts and statistics mentioned, but by the time you’ve watched the documentary and the excerpts from the various concerts you will realise that this band was huge back in the 1970s, and real innovators.

To newcomers to the band or genre, and to those sitting on the fence, I would strongly recommend watching Disc 2 first: there is an hour-long, informative documentary including interviews with the band members, their past and present managers, the band’s publicist and even the well-know promoter Harvey Goldsmith (“When they got on stage they were mind-blowing”).

You can select sub-titles in English, French, Italian, German and Spanish.

Apart from the documentary, Disc 2 has 44 minutes from the California Jam festival in 1974, where the band headlined to an audience of 350,000. I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed watching the footage of this concert, especially Keith Emerson’s lengthy piano solo (no, I’m not talking about the famous – and brief – piano stunt, which is also shown but was only a gimmick).

After watching Disc 2, you can put in Disc 1 and watch 19 performances over the band’s life, ranging from TV studio appearances to videos and concerts. A couple of the very early recordings are historically interesting albeit annoying because TV producers and cameramen in those days felt that it was not sufficient to just show the band playing: it was important to zoom in and out constantly, change shot constantly, superimpose coloured boxes and strips, invert the image, and mess around in other senseless ways. So much so that you cannot see what the band is doing half the time. Thirty-seven years down the line, precisely what is important is to see the band performing, as they were, not stupid visual effects. OK, rant over: there is still plenty of good footage on Disc 1, so do not let me put you off. The list of tracks is historically diverse (although some are only excerpts): ‘Take A Pebble’ (German TV, 1970); ‘Knife Edge’ (Brussels concert, 1971); ‘Rondo’/’Pictures’ (Isle of White festival, 1970), ‘Rondo’ (Brussels concert, 1971); ‘Tarkus, Eruption’ (Tokyo concert, 1972); ‘Hoedown’ (Milan concert, 1973); ‘Tank’ (Milan concert, 1973); ‘Lucky Man’ (California Jam, 1974); ‘Karn Evil 9, Third Impression’ (California Jam, 1974); ‘Toccata’ (Aquarius TV show, 1974) [Palmer only, and very good]; ‘I Believe In Father Christmas’ (Greg Lake’s excellent 1975 video); ‘Honky Tonk Train Blues’ (Oscar Peterson’s Piano Party, 1976); ‘Fanfare For The Common Man’ (1977 video); ‘Pirates’ (Montreal concert, 1977) [not a piece I like, but it sounds and looks great live with a full orchestra accompanying, making the whole thing very slick]; ‘Tiger In A Spotlight’ (Pop Rock TV show, 1977); ‘Watching Over You’ (Memphis concert, 1978); ‘Tarkus’ (Royal Albert Hall, 1992) [boy, the guys look old in this one, and I don’t enjoy much the way they turn the piece into a slow, funky, jazzed up number]; ‘Touch And Go’ (Budapest concert, 1997). Disc 1 also has “bonus footage”: mostly-B&W footage of the band rehearing in 1973 (which is initially boring but then becomes interesting); a short documentary about the album covers, with interviews; a B&W film of the band racing saloon cars with other celebrities at Brands Hatch in 1973; “How It All Began”, a new interview with Bob Moog, which I found very interesting (and further proof of how innovatory the band was). And, if that is not enough, three more B&W tracks: ‘Fire’, performed by THE CRAZY WORLD OF ARTHUR BROWN (1968 TV performance, suffering from gratuitous, very dated and hugely irritating camera effects); ‘America’, performed by THE NICE (1968 TV performance, also suffering from the same very dated and irritating camera effects); and finally, a snippet of KING CRIMSON performing ‘21^st Century Schizoid Man’ in Hyde Park in 1969. Oh, and there’s a 24-page booklet with some nice photos and background information.

Well, what are you waiting for? Grab a few beers and some snacks, kick everyone who is not a progressive rock fan out of the room, and settle down for 250 minutes of rock history. And don’t forget: watch Disc 2 first!

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: threefates wrote: BTW... I got something else this week thats blowing my mind............ I just couldn't be happier.. well except maybe if I got tickets to see Floyd at Live8... How did you get that ticket?  I cant find them anywhere - even the Lake website is refusing to admit he is touring!!  Could you possibly ask Greg to send me one too please?  As for looking like an angel, yes he looked great in the 1970s - but of the three, he was the one my girlfriend didn't recognise in the recent interviews.  I thought he looked better than in previous interviews - has he quit smoking?  Almost every shot on the DVD sees him taking a drag between bass runs.  Keith even mentions it in recalling Lake's first impression of Tarkus (which caused me to laugh out loud....!)

You can get a ticket for this show directly from the Orchard Theater.  Its already on their calendar and tickets are already for sale...

http://www.dartford.gov.uk/thingstodo/ORCHARD/orchard_main.htm - http://www.dartford.gov.uk/thingstodo/ORCHARD/orchard_main.h tm

And yes, Greg has changed quite a lot, but he still looks just like Greg to me!   He did stop smoking back in the 90s.

Yes, great review Fitz, there are indeed some great moments on this video..  I had to watch it with a box of tissues.... Something a bit strange about the KC Hyde Park video snippet tho.  I don't think the audio is from that show... sounds like the original placed over it to me....

Disc 2 with the documentary was excellent. I love it when Keith says "Maybe we were too good".... yeh, that was it!  Everyone was very honest about the relationship between Greg and Keith... but even at the end they admitted they are just like family... loving and fighting...

I understand Keith and Carl attended a charity function together in London last week.  All we need is one more...and we'll have a group!  But Greg is in Germany recording a new Christmas single.. and working on some type of seminar with the Franz Liszt School of Music in Weismar..

threefates wrote: Something a bit strange about the KC Hyde Park video snippet tho.  I don't think the audio is from that show... sounds like the original placed over it to me....

Sorry, I guess I should have mentioned that it is obviously dubbed but, as it's only a short excerpt and the B&W film of band plus crowd is interesting -- and the lip sync between the singing and the film is very good -- it's not a big deal really. The snippet is really there just for historical context, seeing a little of Greg Lake with KING CRIMSON.

I also found it quite an emotional viewing experience (I'm sure not half as much as you, though!). The old footage brought back some good memories of my youth. A bit depressing in some ways too, though, seeing all the very young teenage faces in the very early crowds - all standing - mutate into a much older crowd - all seated - at the 1992 Royal Albert Hall concert. But then the band had formed over 20 years earlier. Twenty years!

I'm usually not impressed by music DVDs -- I prefer a good-quality music CD on a decent HI-FI and/or good headphones (or actually being at a concert if possible, of course) to watching a concert on TV -- but I really enjoyed this ELP 2-DVD set. I just had to watch the whole thing through, and was riveted. I didn't learn much that I didn't already know about the band, but there were one or two interesting new tidbits even for a long-time fan such as myself (I'm not saying what, as I don't want to spoil anything for those who have yet to watch the DVDs). And the DVDs actually made me want to listen to the first album and BSS again asap, which shows how interesting the package is. firth_of_Fifth's enthusiasm sums it up for me too!

threefates wrote: Don't you guys ever pay attention to anything going on around here... I've been touting this dvd for months now... in the news section... It can be had on Amazon.uk in the PAL version now for 14.99... and it doesn't come out here in the States in NTSC version until Aug.

These guys pay attention to nothing until it set in front of them. 

Well I'm totally in love with this DVD set.  The day at the Races track is just wonderful and I can't watch it without a box of tissues handy... Greg comes in second to Ronnie Scott of all people.. and now Ronnie is dead and Greg plays once a year at his club in London with Roger Daltry and the rest of the RD Crusaders....

But its such a testament to when the boys were young, excited and even friends.... so good to see.  And that version of Hoedown... is just killer!!!!

Greg at the Races...

It just gets better every time I watch it. Hoedown is indeed blistering, but I'm still in awe of Emerson's "piano improvisations" at the California Jam concert (Disc 2). He may not be a technically perfect piano player, but he plays with a lot of passion AND he can really improvise around a track. I like the way he takes the basic ELP album track and wanders all over the place but the track is still discernable every so often and he brings it back. Talented guy.

On your copy do the subtitles start appearing around half way through the documentary on Disc 2, even if you have the subtitles switched off?  It happens on my DVD player/TV, but not on my PC.

Also, on Disc 1, does Track 3 (Rondo/Pictures) end prematurely if you just select that one track from the menu? It does on my copy, but plays all the way through if I select Play All from the menu.  This same thing happens on my DVD player/TV and on my PC.

It's no big deal, but I can't understand why these are happening and wondered whether it is a generic fault with the DVD or whether it's just my copy.

Were you at Cal Jam, threefates? How much of the concert is missing from Disc 2?

Yes, it seem every pressing has that problem during Rondo where Carl goes to take his shirt off and it stops ang goes back to menu... thats if you haven't played it all the way thru.

There is definitely a bit of Caljam missing... but its because ABC originally broke it down and actually put it in a different order than it was originally played.  Here's the actual set list for CalJam..

Hoedown, Jerusalem, Toccata, Tarkus, Benny the Bouncer, Jeremy Bender, Take a Pebble, Still You Turn Me On, Lucky Man, Piano improv., Karn Evil 9 - Encore: Pictures

They did Benny at quite a few shows early 1974.  Which show did you attend in Aug.. since I was all of those?

The sound quality holds up great on this, and is probably why some things are missing. Because I'm sure they dropped all the stuff that couldn't be greatly improved on sound and video.  There is supposedly a full live show from the early 70s coming out by the end of the year.  I'm hoping its a full BSS show, but it could also be their full Isle of Wight show from 70 or a live show from Asbury Park NJ, 1972.