Wikileaks
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Forum Name: General Polls
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74290
Printed Date: February 02 2025 at 09:51
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Topic: Wikileaks
Posted By: progvortex
Subject: Wikileaks
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 01:29
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No charges brought against Assange yet regarding the release of documents (much to the discontent of the U.S. State Dept.), but Pvt. Manning is being slammed with solitary confinement. Ouch... I think Wikileaks is the truth movement the world needs right now and Manning/Assange are martyrs.
Opinions? ------------- Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it? |
Replies:
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 07:51
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Good, great, amazing. Causes no harm. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 07:58
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Both. Sometimes it may be good to expose what happens behind the curtains, but I am a bit suspicious (not paranoid!): I think that this whole Wikileaks thing has been set up by the U.S. government to give them a reason to seize control over the internet.
And that's why I vote for bad. ------------- 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: December 21 2010 at 08:06
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That would be the worst idea ever. Why wouldn't they stage some sort of cyber-terrorism attack? You don't use a false flag operation that makes the government look bad. The government can't claim to be rescuing people from its lie and abuses being uncovered. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: fasolplanetarium
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 04:14
I don't know. I'm not a big fan of government conspiracies to be honest, and Assange's history as a hacker completely dissociates him from being the government's secret champion. I agree with you in part, however, because he is going to draw negative attention to the internet as a method of free speech. I don't really care about "exposing" the government for doing "bad" things either. It's a government! All governments do dishonest things and that is something that is intrinsic to the very thing that is a government. It's a flawed implementation, but it's also necessary. It seems that Assange is stuck in the "f**k the establishment" mentality, though he is no doubt brilliant, if not because what he does is good or bad but because it's really interesting and causing a huge stir in the way people feel about their security, or lack thereof. ------------- "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." -Kierkegaard My music blog: endless-sound.blogspot.com |
someone_else wrote:Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 07:09
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The obvious answer is if the information is merely embarrassing then too bad. If someone gets hurt or killed then it's bad.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 07:10
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Generally I think it's a good thing, but there is a large caveat. The way Wikileaks handles it is dubious because there are a lot of documents that are inherantly dangerous to the public when published indescriminately, as is being done. It's not a problem that is addressed easily, the resources needed to sift the in formation would be enormous. But I do feel that the way it's handled now owes less to disclosure of dubious practices but to the pandering to people's 'Schadenfreude'. And that's a bit cheap and nasty. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 07:23
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Wikileaks is no government conspiracy, as Equality says it doesn't make the government look good, and therefore doens't make sense in that regard.
Assange is an enemy of the global elite, and will be dealt with accordingly, either in or out of court. Anyway, I vote for the first option. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 07:47
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I know that I may be too fond of conspiracy theories now and then, but I still have the hunch that there is something more behind this. I can't help it... -------------
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 09:11
I have naturally suspicious mind too, and I admit I did wonder about the timings of the leaks concerning Chinese relations with North Korea, and the Arab calls to deal with Iran, but in this case it was just an unintentionally well timed coincidence, imo. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:11
this |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:52
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I voted the second option, not because I agree with it, but because the government will probably put everyone who voted option 1 in jail. You know what, f*ck the government, I'll vote the first option! ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 15:36
LOL ------------- 
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Posted By: Theriver
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 09:46
| Going for one... |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 11:15
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I don't know if someone was, is, has been or will be killed due to Wikileaks but at least here in Brazil a certain number of reputations are dead now.
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 25 2010 at 16:00
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Just wait until we get Wikipoops...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 17:33
Like whose, for example?  -------------   
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 18:35
Hey, just google: Wikileaks, José Serra, Nelson Jobim...  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 19:10
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Whoa, we have a Brazillian admin? -------------
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 19:30
Brasilian since I was born.  Brasileiro desde que nasci.  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 19:40
Rumor has it he was born underneath an amber moon... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 19:46
Sim, mas precisamos de mais BRs neste web-sítio. -------------
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: December 26 2010 at 19:50
Wikileaks rumored it.   ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 21:52
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Sorry, had to post this here: ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 02 2011 at 09:29
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I like the principle of Wikileaks and I'm certain that the sex assault charges are just to get him in trouble...
But ultimately, I'm not that sure that these document releases do much good ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: August 16 2012 at 03:37
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this is or might be relevant for this thread http://news.antiwar.com/2012/08/15/britain-threatens-to-attack-ecuador-embassy-to-capture-assange/" rel="nofollow - http://news.antiwar.com/2012/08/15/britain-threatens-to-attack-ecuador-embassy-to-capture-assange/ -------------  
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 06:44
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I suspect Washington is leaning on london, to suspend the diplomatic immunity of the Equadorian embassy, so we can extradite him to Sweden.
It will be easier thereafter to extradite him to the US. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 07:30
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How? Surely if there is one country on this planet that it is easy for the USA to extradite someone from it's going to be the UK. The Sweden/USA extradition treaty specifically excludes political and military extraditions and any extradition to a third country (USA) requires permission from the first country of extradition (UK) under the terms of the extradition treaty between EU countries. ------------- What? |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 08:21
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It's great. But some people have gone too far and have indangered lots of people with it.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 09:13
Who are these "some people" and who have they "endangered"? I've never heard of anyone physically threatened by the release of those documents other than the government's already soiled reputation. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 09:20
It's still got to be easier extraditing from Sweden than from a soveriegn embassy. Assange faces charges in Sweden, not the UK, so if he is handed into Swedish police custody that would surely mean that extradition to the US would not constitute extradition to a third country. The point is, there will ways round this for the US. The law, as they, say is an ass. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 09:38
------------- What? |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:05
I guess so, although part of me thinks Assange's case is too high profile for extraordinary rendition. There would too much publicity around it. Assange is a household name now, unlike the numerous faceless Jihadi's who have been black bagged and flown to torture havens by the west. Anyone who follows the news, will have some vague memory of this government and the last, being accused of complicity in dubious practices, but without some time intensive Googling, I suspect not many people could pin point a specific case of this happening. Assange is a different matter. He would, rightly or wrongly, end up a martyr figure, for all those who cherish the truth. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:14
One example is when several documents were released that could've endangered some of our soldiers overseas. ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:25
But specifically, what did those documents disclose? There may have been a risk to US or allied forces, as a result of the disclosures, but IIRC, this was not ever quantified or proven in any meaningful way. In other words, we only have the word of people, who have a demonstrated track record of lying that this was the case. Western forces were put in danger in numerous ways, largely by those who sent them into war. In the case of many Britsh troops, without the proper combat gear. In the case of the US and UK, allowing repeated tours of duty for personell suffering serious mental health issues; PTSD etc. I suspect our troops have also been exposed to depleted uranium hazards. Somtimes it's healthy to remind oneself, that there isn't really good vs bad in this world, just different persepctives on the same challenges. IMO, anyway. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 11:07
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My point is that this great power should be used responceably
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 11:13
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^^^ Agreed. As should all power. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 11:15
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(@smarty) ...so should a spell checker, so what's your actual point? The US government misuse of great power or Wikileaks? Remember Wikileaks held-back 15000 documents because they contained names of people whose lives could have been endangered by their publication... the questions that needs to be asked are why were the names in the documents and why were they so easy to leak/ ------------- What? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 14:14
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Overall, it s a good. thing. However, i think it's reasonable to use common sense with leaks. If they release a series of cables without informant's names blocked out or divulge specific tactics or troop movements before they happen, then there's not really much of a point. The purpose of the leaks should be to shine a light on the shady aspects of government/corporations, and be a whistleblower in that effect. Just to release data for the sake of it, and endangering soldiers, informants, or diplomats for little gain is irresponsible. I do not mean to say avoid releasing leaks if there's the slightest chance a person may be killed. For too long we've been scared into submission and propagandized for the sake of "protecting the troops". With out rampant militarism, there will ALWAYS be troops in danger, and that kind of talk is just an indirect means to get people to stop questioning. We have to weight the benefits versus the risks. Which is why this leak business can be either good or bad depending on how it is used. Assange is being hounded by the US government, and England's government is once again taking our influence up its ass and liking it. Whether or not he sexually assaulted two women is almost beside the point. The ultimate goal here is to extradite him to the US. On what charges? Treason? Unbelievable. Even if Assange is not extradited to the US for charges, I would imagine the US would love him to be charged with assault in Sweden, and removed form the picture for awhile. It would be a convenient way for the US to achieve its goal through other, less obvious means.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 15:33
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/\ Never could've said it better.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 16:09
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There's no denying that. Assange is accused of sexual assault, he should stand trial for the charge regardless of anything else. It is far from being beside the point, it is the whole point. Even if he was accused of stealing a scatter cushion form Ikea he should stand trial for the crime he is charged with, not seek political asylum for an alleged crime he hasn't been charged with. ------------- What? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 20 2012 at 17:09
I agree. There's a lot of reasons to think Assange is a sleazeball, and I think he should be tried for this allegation. However, it's clear some very powerful people/governments want his head, and I fear the evidence/testimony backing his allegation might be "tampered" with. for the sake of getting him out of the way. As long as he is extradited to Sweden, and no place else, I'm mostly ok with it. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |