Obscure Non-Prog Music Facts
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Topic: Obscure Non-Prog Music Facts
Posted By: presdoug
Subject: Obscure Non-Prog Music Facts
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 17:58
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I was thinking, since the Obscure Prog Facts thread has been so interesting, what about obscure knowledge regarding non-Prog music? Other types of rock or jazz or classical-anything non prog? Non Prog Rock Former singer for the Canadian heavy rock band Moxy, the late Buzz Shearman, was the number one pick for a replacement for AC/DCs Bon Scott, but due to his difficulties with his vocal chords (due no doubt to drugs and drink) he was passed over Former seventies UK hard rock band Dirty Tricks were the very original backing band for the solo Ozzy Osbourne Former lead singer for Dirty Tricks, Kenny Stewart, now fronts a Zeppelin cover band called Stairway To Zeppelin Former Skid Row, Lonestar, and more famously UFO guitarist Paul Chapman later joined a band made up of some members of southern US band Molly Hatchet classical music During Anton Bruckner's funeral service, Brahms stood outside and refused to go in to pay his respects, bitterly muttering, "Soon it will be my turn", and the following year, he was dead In 1911, conductor Felix Mottl was conducting a Wagner opera, and in the middle of it, he dropped dead of a heart attack-years later in 1968 at the same concert hall and podium, while conducting the same Wagner opera, conductor Joseph Keilberth dropped dead of a heart attack AT THE SAME BAR OF MUSIC as Mottl had! Thomas Edison made a recording of Johannes Brahms' voice |
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: December 12 2010 at 20:11
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Elton John once attacked Iggy Pop on stage while dressed as a gorilla.
Yes really, look it up.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 21:53
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It took the Zeps a week or two to record their first album. Joy Division got their first EP pressed, but only after that did they actually hear it and figured that everything sounds so quiet and messy.
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 21:59
Great article: http://wallofpaul.com/that-was-no-gorilla-that-was-elton-john" rel="nofollow - http://wallofpaul.com/that-was-no-gorilla-that-was-elton-john ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Textbook wrote:Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 22:29
Goodness! What opera? I want to avoid listening to it until later in life just in case.  ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 22:43
And thanks, The Truth and Man With Hat, for reviving this long dead thread!  |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 19 2012 at 22:48
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Canadian rock band Loverboy's singer Mike Reno's real name was Mike Rynoski, and he had previously sang on Canadian heavy rock band Moxy's fourth album Under The Lights in 1978. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 11:11
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classical music Adolf Hitler would frequently visit the concerts conducted by Jewish composer Gustav Mahler. Hitler's own record collection was sprinkled with Jewish artists (like Mendelssohn, for example) When preparing his 6th Symphony for first performance, composer Gustav Mahler wept constantly. When conductor Oswald Kabasta and his wife attempted suicide after Kabasta being treated harshly during "De Nazification" (he could only work as a common labourer) the conductor succeeded in killing himself, but his wife survived. Sadly, six months later, his wife succeeded in committing suicide. German composer Richard Strauss visited an elderly and ailing Anton Bruckner to show one of his recent compositions to get Bruckner's approval. Conductor Arturo Toscanini was at one point, in the early 1930s a champion of the music of Anton Bruckner, conducting his 4th and 7th Symphonies repeatedly. (Also having done the adagio of the 7th way back in Italy in 1896!) After 1935, he never returned to Bruckner's music again. (And unearthed from an archive a few years ago is a Toscanini recording of Bruckner's 7th Symphony) Beethoven's favorite composer was Handel. |
Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 11:36
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Neil Young and Burton Cummings (The Guess Who) both went to the same high school in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. I'm not sure if they associated with each other though. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 12:42
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Brahms was celebant all of his life. Quite a few classical composers died of syphilis (can't remember who exactly.)
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 14:30
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Victoria Adams, married one football player with the name Beckham, and changed her last name :O
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 15:24
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In the 1920s, conductor Wilhelm Furtwangler conducted Mahler's symphonies with frequency. There are over a hundred Jews who owe their lives to Furtwangler intervening on their behalf in Nazi Germany Furtwangler himself had to flee the Nazis and go to Switzerland. Himmler wanted to arrest him due to his helping of Jews to safety. Anton Bruckner's music was introduced to Russia in the 1920s by German conductors Hermann Abendroth and Otto Klemperer. Abendroth was the first German conductor allowed back to Russia after the cessation of WW2 hostilities. Richard Strauss's tone poem Ein Heldenleben was dedicated to conductor Willem Mengelberg. Dutch conductor Mengelberg, head of the Concertgebouw Orchester Amsterdam when the Nazis began occupying the Netherlands during the war, had the great courage and conviction in conducting a few performances of Jewish composer Gustav Mahler's 1st Symphony, after the Nazis had taken over! This could put you into a concentration camp, but Mengelberg wasn't. Franz Schmidt's Fourth Symphony was dedicated to conductor Prof. Oswald Kabasta. Kabasta showed great vision by being an early believer in Mahler's symphonies, but unfortunately, his career collided with the Nazis in a big way.,and thus, could not conduct Mahler. German conductor Joseph Keilberth was born just two weeks after Herbert von Karajan. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 20 2012 at 18:23
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Composer Richard Strauss was an enigmatic figure at times. He was not anti-Semitic, and had no problem in working with Jews in the music world, and personally felt the Nazis to be dilettantes and barbarians, but became the Nazis Generalmusikdirektor. Jewish conductor Bruno Walter, famous for conducting Anton Bruckner's Fourth, and last three symphonies, also did the Fifth Symphony, even doing a radio broadcast of it in New York City in the early 1930s. Conductor Arturo Toscanini, upon looking at Gustav Mahler's 5th Symphony, condemned the composer as "not sincere" and in his long career, he never conducted any Mahler. German conductor Hans Knappertsbusch, in his long and distinguished career, never came to North America to conduct, as many of his colleagues eventually did. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 21 2012 at 13:14
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When the composers Johannes Brahms and Anton Bruckner finally met, at Brahms famous haunt "The Red Hedgehog" each sat at the end of a long table with their followers around them. It was hard to break the ice. Brahms ordered Pork dumplings. Bruckner then commented "Well, a man that orders pork dumplings can't be all that bad", and thus "the ice was broken". When conductor Sir Thomas Beecham toured Germany with his orchestra in the mid 1930s, Hitler attended, and later met privately with Beecham. Sir Thomas came away from that by commenting, "Now i KNOW what is wrong with Germany." At another concert of Beecham's that Hitler was supposed to attend, but was late for, Beecham made a mistake by commenting "the old bugger's late" which was picked up by microphones, and quite a bit of the audience heard it. Luckily, Beecham was able to keep his head. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 21 2012 at 16:29
I wonder what Beecham meant by that. I don't really get it.
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 21 2012 at 17:15
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 13:25
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In the rivalry between conductors Herbert von Karajan and Wilhelm Furtwangler, Furtwangler disliked Karajan so much, that he could not even refer to him by name, and called him "That man K". This was one sided, though. Karajan admired Furtwangler as a conductor. When Herbert von Karajan visited the monastery of St. Florian in Austria, where Anton Bruckner's body was interred, Karajan was allowed to go down into the vault, and spent a couple of hours "just himself and Bruckner's bones". One time when Wilhelm Furtwangler was sitting in the front row of a Toscanini concert where Beethoven's 9th Symphony was being played, after a few moments of the music, he called out "Bloody time beater!", and left the hall. Furtwangler was Hitler's favorite conductor. (Poor Furtwangler!) The conductor would do his best to be "out of town" when it was Hitler's birthday, so he would not have to conduct for it. Conductor Oswald Kabasta had a special relationship with Anton Bruckner's 8th Symphony, and when barred from conducting after WW2, he wrote his beloved Munich Philharmonic Orchestra, saying, "remember me especially when you play Bruckner's 8th." Alas, there are no recordings of Kabasta doing the symphony. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 13:36
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U2 called the song "Hawkmoon 269" because they (allegedly, at least that's what they said) did 269 takes of that song. The Edge of U2 used an echo machine for the intro solo to "Where the Streets Have No Name". He wasn't actually that proficient on the instrument.  All of the members of U2 are Irish with the exception of Adam Clayton, who was born in England, Sussex or Essex, can't remember, but on the Web it shows "Chinnor". Go figure ... unless my memory screwed me this time.
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 16:16
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While auditioning to be the guitarist for the Melvins, Kurt Cobain was rejected. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: May 29 2012 at 17:55
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Neil Young and Rick James started out in the same band, the Mynah Birds, back in 1965.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 05 2012 at 15:58
| When Canadian heavy rock band Moxy were recording their debut album in Van Nuys, California in 1975, guitarist Tommy Bolin was recording next door; he joined in with Moxy,and a lot of the solo lead guitar in the Moxy debut is from Bolin. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 06 2012 at 01:29
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Brit glam rock band The Sweet started out as a 'front' for record producers Nicky Chinn and Mike Chapman who used session musicians and The Sweet just mimed on Top Of The Pops and the like. Their first release (1969) was 'Funny funny' which was a rip off The Archies 'Sugar Sugar'. I'm not exactly when The Sweet started writing and playing on their own songs but guess it was 1971- 1972.Their last hit was 'Love Is Like Oxygen' in 1978.
The Sweet were the first band I ever saw live (1980) and gave me permanent hearing damage
I remember going to see The Carl Palmer band about 10 years ago and who should walk in and sit at the back of the auditorium - Andy Scott! Still completely recognisable. Nowadays he is most famous for doing a van advert on TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJS_eio4DTc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJS_eio4DTc
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 06 2012 at 20:01
Who could forget "Ballroom Blitz" or "Little Willy".Sorry, but i can't watch youtube videos from my own computer, but will check that link out at my sister's. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 13 2012 at 20:20
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German-Czech conductor Franz Konwitschny was nick-named Kon-Whiskey for his heavy drinking habit. Conductor Sir Thomas Beecham was a real character, and known for his acerbic wit and invective, usually inflicted at the expense of somebody. When conductor Sir Malcolm Sargent toured the Middle East and was detained there, he phoned up Beecham. "You know, Sir Thomas, i recently did some concerts in the Middle East, but they detained me, and later i was released." Beecham replied, "Released?! Did they hear you play?" Composer Anton Bruckner died a virgin. Johannes Brahms, quite the opposite, who was known to have relations with prostitutes. Tchaikovsky detested Wagner's music. Debussy detested the music of Richard Strauss. Gustav Mahler was an early admirer of Anton Bruckner's music, and would listen in on Bruckner's music theory classes in Vienna when Mahler was a student. Mahler even conducted the world premiere of Bruckner's 6th Symphony. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 00:59
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Posted By: Master of Time
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 01:15
| I don't know how obscure this is, but Franz Liszt is Wagner's father-in-law. Wagner also died two years before Franz Liszt which prompted him to write the elegy "At the Grave of Richard Wagner". |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 13:26
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 14:36
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 17:21
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 14 2012 at 17:25
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 15 2012 at 01:05
Good song and their last hit record. I have the album which I got just for the extended version.Another peice of trivia about the Sweet is that Ronnie James Dio wanted to join them after Brian Connolly left in the late seventies. Didn't happen obviously but shows how well respected The Sweet were.
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 15:29
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 21 2012 at 16:39
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The world premiere of Anton Bruckner's 3rd Symphony was a fiasco-it left the conductor Bruckner in tears. Before the finish of the second movement, most of the audience had got up and left (thinking WTF is this?) A few music students stayed behind to console Bruckner-and one of them was a young Gustav Mahler. Composer Richard Wagner was a follower of the philosopher Arthur Schoepenhauer. Composer Gustav Mahler once said to conductor Bruno Walter-"No one understands me as much as you." In the middle of the 19th Century, Beethoven's remains were removed and re-interred somewhere else. They were available for the public to view, and composer Anton Bruckner went to see them. When he was bending over the casket, he lost his pince-nez, and no doubt, it is in the coffin with Beethoven! British conductor Sir Malcolm Sargent had a tendency to fondle his colleague's wives. French conductor Pierre Monteux lost a brother at the concentration camp Belsen during the war. Monteux had jewish roots. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 21 2012 at 20:25
| Ronnie James Dio's cousin is David Feinstein, guitarist for the heavy metal band The Rods from Rochester, New York. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 21 2012 at 20:46
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Composer Richard Wagner detested the 10 Commandments because it included one "Thou shalt not commit adultery", which Wagner was good at doing with Cosima von Bulow. Conductor Arturo Toscanini once said "If i could kill a man, it would be Mussolini." And Toscanini on composer Richard Strauss-"As a composer, i take my hat off to you, but as a man, i put on seven hats." At one point, some of Benito Mussolini's thugs beat up Toscanini to try to intimidate him. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 01 2012 at 18:21
| Turns out Bert Jansch and Steve Jobs died on the same day. Jesus, I'm never up-to-date. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 01 2012 at 19:10
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Richie Blackmore joined The Sweet on stage during their gig in Santa Monica to jam with them on All Right Now in tribute to guitarist Paul Kossoff (Free) who had died earlier that week.
------------- What? |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 02 2012 at 17:53
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Austrian conductor Hans Rosbaud, an important champion of 20th Century composers, and also an important Bruckner conductor, was an ascetic man, and lived until his nineties, and in his final years, was studying Nuclear Physics In 1930, conductor Pierre Monteux recorded the Symphonie Fantastique of Berlioz with the Paris Symphony Orchestra. This is the only recording of the often recorded symphony that used a score that had directions for the conductor dictated directly from Berlioz himself (at the time to conductor Eduard Colonne) Monteux had Jewish roots, and his home was destroyed by the Nazis, along with the special manuscript of the Fantastique score used in the recording |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: December 05 2012 at 10:20
| Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth got into Can after he found a copy of Ege Bamyasi in a 49c bin of some store. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: December 05 2012 at 10:48
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Classical: While in an argument, Stefan Wolpe shouted at his student, Morton Feldman, to "write for the man in the street." Feldman looked outside the two-story window and saw Jackson Pollock walking on the sidewalk. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 20:20
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Celebrated conductor Leopold Stokowski said he recognised Anton Bruckner as a great composer, but that he could not appreciate his music. Nonetheless, he tried, having conducted the Fourth Symphony of his twice in 1914, and the Seventh Symphony once in 1924. After that, though, that was the end of Bruckner and Stokowski. Conductor Pierre Monteux conducted the Mahler symphonies 2,4 and 5 during his long career, but admitted with painful honesty that he found Mahler's music "too contrived". Adolf Hitler wanted to build a shrine to composer Anton Bruckner in his plans for new construction in Linz, Austria. Conductor Herbert von Karajan said that "Hitler loved Bruckner's music", but Albert Speer, in his memoirs Inside The Third Reich, said that Hitler was not really all that interested in Bruckner. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: December 21 2012 at 11:49
Proto-Prog:
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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: December 21 2012 at 14:59
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After a rehearsal of Schoenberg's second quartet, Mahler walked up on stage, asked the quartet to play a C-major chord. After they played it, he said "thank you" and left the building. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 22 2012 at 17:51
Ken Russell did a marvelous film on Mahler ... and I have to look it up, but there is one composition he created, that was for his wife ... as she's walking out the door ... (Doors lyric since it fits!) ... and she had no idea, or understood that he did the whole thing for her.
Not sure this is the same symphony or not.
Should we start on these facts, that movies create and might not have happened? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 22 2012 at 21:21
Interesting that after the first performance of the 5th Symphony, conducted by the composer, he re-orchestrated the whole thing to what we now know as that symphony. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 24 2012 at 22:18
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20th Century Atonal composer Anton Webern was also a conductor, and conducted a performance of Bruckner's 7th Symphony in 1935, which was broadcast by the BBC in England. Austrian conductor Felix Prohaska, known for his work and recordings of Bach, was also an important Bruckner conductor, having during one year recieved the Bruckner medal from the Bruckner Society of America When Gustav Mahler first saw Niagara Falls, he was heard to exclaim, "Now there's a real Forte!" Composer Hector Berlioz, who was an admitted agnostic, when asked, though, what would qualify him for entry into heaven, he replied, "Well, i would offer up my Requiem to God, and that should be reason enough." English composer Sir Edward Elgar considered composer Richard Strauss to be "the musical genius of the day" |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 01 2013 at 15:09
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The premiere of Hector Berlioz's Funeral and Triumphal Symphony was a fiasco. It was an open air performance, and the bandsmen had to play the music during a long march, under the blistering sun of a very hot July day. During the final movement of the symphony, the music was pretty much drowned out by the loud cannons being fired. (It was part of a ceremony re-interring the remains of some people that died in one of the previous French revolutions) During one of the first indoor concerts featuring the Funeral and Triumphal Symphony, composer Richard Wagner was present, and was heard to remark, "This Symphony will exalt the hearts and minds of men, as long as there is a nation called France!" When composer Richard Strauss was on his deathbed, he listened to a recording of his Death and Transfiguration tone poem, was heard to remark, "Near the end, i have really captured what it means, it is all there." |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 04 2013 at 20:38
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Celebrated conductor Artur Rodzinski, who was helped to prominence in part by by Arturo Toscanini, and helped prepare the NBC Orchestra for AT's use, was a Bruckner conductor. Just recently, a recording has surfaced of Bruckner's 7th Symphony recorded live off of a New York radio station from 1938 with the Cleveland Orchestra, and has been just released on CD. It is one of only 4 Bruckner recordings from America during the 1930s in existence, and the only Rodzinski Bruckner document to ever exist. |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: February 05 2013 at 00:18
| Dubstep musician Burial, electronic musician Four Tet (Kieran Hebden), post-rock band Fridge (who Hebden happened to be a member of) synthpop band Hot Chip, and indie pop/dream pop band The xx all attended the same school at the same time. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 11 2013 at 10:44
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Composer Frederick Delius worked on a Florida orange plantation as a young man, thus in part, the inspiration for his composition "Florida Suite" At one concert in Italy conducted by Dutchman Willem Mengelberg, he played Richard Strauss's great work Ein Heldenleben. Gustav Mahler was in the audience, and remarked later to Mengelberg, "You have converted me to Ein Heldenleben". When conductor Pierre Monteux was on his deathbed, he made reference to Mengelberg's conducting, something to the effect,"Mengelberg does it the right way". Mengelberg would often encourage Monteux to program works by Richard Strauss in his concert seasons. Strauss was a Mengelberg specialty. German conductor Carl Schuricht was an early Delius champion, being the first to introduce some of Delius's works to German audiences. In a recording of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, done in '39 with Schuricht, in between movements, you can hear a woman saying "Deutschland uber alles, Her Schuricht!" |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 13 2013 at 15:17
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After WW2, when the Munich Philharmonic got back on it's feet and in operation and with conductor Hans Knappertsbusch directing things again, during the opening concert, Knappertsbusch said-"The "Thousand Year Reich" is over, and now we can hear Beethoven as he was meant to be heard." Knappertsbusch was an outspoken opponent of the Nazis, one time it is recorded that he hurled an ashtray at a speaker during a Nazi speech. Knappertsbusch was difficult for Hitler to deal with, as he was physically speaking an "Aryan German", and also a very endearing personality in the German's music world of the day, so the Nazis could not do away with him. They did push him around a bit, though, having prevented him from going to Britain in '36 to conduct. Knappertsbusch's final concert with the Vienna Philharmonic in April of 1964, was done when the old man was quite ill with emphysema, having been a smoker, but the result was a fantastic recording of Anton Bruckner's Fourth Symphony. Sadly, the following October of '65 Knappertsbusch was dead. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 03 2013 at 11:03
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Composer Frederick Delius contracted Syphilis, and this led to later complications of paralysis and blindness.
Conductor Sir Thomas Beecham gave the oration at Delius's funeral. German conductor Hans Richter, who conducted the world premiere of Sir Edward Elgar's First Symphony called it "the greatest symphony of modern times" When the Nazis came to power in Germany, England's composer Sir Edward Elgar remarked that he was "very interested in what is going on over in Germany". Elgar said of British conductor Sir Adrian Boult, "With you, i am assured that my music will be in capable hands" |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 04 2013 at 19:10
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Gustav Mahler's symphonies were performed with great frequency in Germany in the 1920s, to the point where some critics complained about what they called the "Mahler fever".
German pianist Elly Ney, who was a specialist in Beethoven, toured all over America in the 1920s, giving speeches at her concerts saying how great National Socialism was. At one point later in her career, she claimed troubles due to interference by Jewish people. Obviously, she was wrong on both accounts. German conductor Hermann Abendroth was referred to in some circles as "the other Furtwangler". Furtwangler and Abendroth admired each other as conductors, and when Furtwangler died in 1954, Abendroth stated "It's as if my world has stopped turning." |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 09:18
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Hullywod-Sign.jpg" rel="nofollow">
 In 1978 Alice Cooper organised a campaign to restore the Hollywood sign, which by then was in such a poor state it read "HuLLYWO D". He donated £27,700 to restore the second letter "O". ------------- What? |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 09:32
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^Must have succeeded in getting the ball rolling. I believe the sign looks tip top now. The cover of Heart's Little Queen was not taken in some picturesque rural village in Wales or Canada, but rather in the city park right next to Dodger Stadium in LA. Ann said there were 1000 other better shots taken of her that day where she was smiling, but they chose the one pic she didn't like, where she was "pouting". ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 09:38
^ I love that cover
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 09:44
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The riff sampled on Eminem's "My Name Is" was taken from a Labi Siffre song on which Chas & Dave played. Before they formed their famous duo, Chas had worked with Joe Meek, and Dave had been in a band called The Rolling Stones. ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 09:44
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Yeah me too, I have a remaster of the CD coming which I'm really looking forward to. Another tidbit (as I'm reading the Heart bio at the moment)......on the Queen cover, all of the band are in rented clothes except Ann. She couldn't find anything she liked in the rental clothes rack, so her clothes on that cover are her own. Apparently in one of the other sleeve shots in the album, you can spot a zipper on her boot, the only spot where they failed to make certain everything was "period". ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 12:01
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The original cover for Heart's Magazine album was different than the one that became known
One of my cousins went to a school and had as a teacher, a brother of the Wilson sisters, years ago. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 17:00
Interesting. I did not know that, I knew the 1977 release was made up of partially finished studio tracks, b-sides and some live tracks compared to the 1978 release that was fully finished studio tracks, but didn't realise the artwork was different. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 17:30
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Back to Chas & Dave - Chas wrote a gardening book ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 09 2013 at 12:04
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Iconic German conductor Wilhelm Furtwaengler, regarded as one of the 20th century's greatest Bruckner interpreters, never conducted Bruckner's un-numbered symphonies, or Symphony No. 1. There were isolated performances of Symphony 2, though, and all the later symphonies were done.
Alas, there were no recordings left of any symphonies before the Fourth. The only Bruckner-Furtwaengler recording made in a studio setting, the Adagio to the Seventh Symphony, was played on German radio just before the announcement of Hitler's suicide. Celebrated musician/conductor Dr. Serge Koussevitzky, was renowned as one of the greatest double-bass players of his day. He once met composer Tchaikovsky, playing some chamber music with him. Brother of composer Tchaikovsky, Modest Tchaikovsky, considered Koussevitzky to be the greatest conductor of his brother's music. Serge Koussevitzky was known as a great conductor of Tchaikovsky's last three symphonies, but also conducted the Tchaikovsky First Symphony, though no recordings exist. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:48
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One hundred years ago, in 1913, the first complete recording of a symphony was made-Beethoven's Fifth, conducted by Artur Nikisch with the Berlin Philharmonic. It has been issued on CD on the Dutton label.
Nikisch was considered by many to be THE conductor of his day, until his death in the early 1920s. He conducted the world premiere of Bruckner's 7th Symphony in Leipzig, and the composer was present. Nikisch was also interested in Mahler's music, and even conducted the first music from his 3rd Symphony, the inner movements, before the composer conducted the whole symphony later on. Professor Hans Richter, another celebrated conductor, became very important in the late 19th, and first decade of the 20th Centuries. He conducted the world premieres of Bruckner's 4th and 8th Symphonies, and Elgar's First Symphony. He retired around 1911, and unfortunately left no recordings. American conductor Theodore Thomas, who died in the first decade of the 20th Century, was enormously important, being the director of many US concert premieres, including Bruckner's 4th and 7th Symphonies. He sometimes premiered musical works even before they had been done in Europe. Leopold Stokowski had also a giant list of world premiere performances under his direction, including the American premieres of Elgar's Second Symphony, and Mahler's 8th Symphony and Das Lied Von Der Erde. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 01 2013 at 19:54
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Anton Bruckner dedicated his 2nd Symphony to Franz Liszt, after giving the score of the work to Liszt to look at, Liszt misplaced it.
At Franz Liszt's funeral, Anton Bruckner played the organ, and Liszt pupil Bernard Stavenhagen gave the funeral oration. When Bruckner met composer Richard Wagner for the first time, and asked if Wagner would accept the dedication of one of two of either of his symphonies, the day after Bruckner could not recall which one Wagner had accepted for dedication because they had had too much beer. He contacted Wagner and recieved the note "The one where the trumpet leads the fanfare" That, of course, meant the 3rd Symphony. Composer Sir Edward Elgar made the comment one time about his own composing, "When i hear Brahms, i feel that i am tinkering." |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 16:27
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German conductor Ernst Praetorius, who fell from favor in Nazi Germany for conducting so called "degenerate music", landed in Turkey. He became an important musical figure there, conducting the first performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in the country. Back in Germany, he was renowned for conducting the first recording of Bruckner's Second Symphony in 1937.
In the DRA (Deutsche Rundfunk Archiv) are the very first recordings made of Bruckner's first three numbered symphonies. Famous singer Lotte Lehmann's brother Fritz Lehmann was a conductor. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 00:38
I recommend an excellent book titled "The Devil's Muse". It tells the story of Nazi persecution of musicians beginning when they achieved power in the early 1930's. I have this book to thank for my discovery of Arnold Schoenberg. When I read that the Nazi's determined his music was "degenerate" I decided that I just had to hear it! Later, when I connected the dots between Schoenberg's creation of 12 tone serial music, Anton Webern, and Frank Zappa, Zappa's orchestral music finally made sense to me. If interested, I'd also highly recommend hearing Schoenberg's 12 tone based opera "Moses and Aron" (he purposely misspelled "Aron" that way so the title would have 12 letters...he was one clever man and a brilliant composer)  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 07:30
I would suggest to you a book called Trial of Strength by Fred K. Preiberg, about the rocky course the career of conductor Wilhelm Furtwangler took when his genius collided with Nazi Germany. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 11:15
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Ya, Zappa specifically mentions Webern as an influence in his autobio...and of course Webern came from the "Second Viennese School" and was a student of Schoenberg and his new creation, "12 tone serial music". Like Schoenberg, Webern's music was deemed "cultural Bolshevism" and "degenerate art" by the Nazi party. Thanks for the reference to "Trial of Strength" it sounds interesting too. Along similar lines, I read a biography of Richard Wagner and his family...he had close ties to the Nazi party and was probably the single composer most embraced by Hitler and the party. Wagner actually wrote an essay with the title (translated) "Jewishness in Music" which was mostly an anti-semitic rant and included an attack on fellow composer Felix Mendelssohn...no wonder the Nazi's loved him  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 16:20
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That is interesting about Webern. My favorite composer Anton Bruckner was "tarred with the Nazi brush", unfortunately. Hitler loved his symphonies, especially the 7th. But Bruckner, a devout Catholic, though devoted to Wagner's music, was not anti-semitic, and his music was never banned in Israel, and rightly so. It was Wagner's orchestral sound that Bruckner was so keenly interested in, really.
Another book which i have not read that sounds interesting is called "The Devil's Music Master", a biography of Furtwangler and what he went through. The conductor wanted to defeat the Nazis, "from within". Somewhat naive, but a noble quest. Yeah, Wagner's anti-semitic rants are thoroughly repulsive. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 18:10
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I just read the wiki page on Furtwangler. Wow! To remain in Nazi Germany conducting and pursuing his compositions while refusing to give the Nazi salute, writing letters to Goebbels and Hitler stating (in so many words) that persecuting Jewish composers will leave us with "kitsch" and "sterile virtuosity", threatening to resign his post if Jewish musicians were persecuted, and refusing to sign his letters to Goebbels and Hitler with "Heil Hitler" is an incredibly dangerous and inspirational example of "civil disobedience". I also read that he directly attacked Richard Wagner's anti-semitic statements (especially re: Mendelssohn) which put him in hot water with Winifred Wagner - whom everyone knew had Hitler's ear. His goal may have been naive, but according to the article he was able to help many Jews (even getting a conductors son released from Dachau). It also says he specifically was able to help my favourite composer Schoenberg - so he get's extra points from me ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 19:40
| Thanks, you have made some very important points. Furtwangler was an incredibly courageous man, who lived in difficult times. More people should read about his amazing career, and the immense hurdles he faced. His wife Elisabeth just died fairly recently at the age of 102, i believe. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 30 2013 at 12:37
So I decided to look up Furtwangler in my "The Devils Muse" book and see what it had to say. Their opinion was 180 degrees opposite from his wiki page. 1) The book reports that while he did help Jewish musicians/composers, he helped about an equal number of pro-Nazi musicians/composers. 2) That his claims that he never conducted an orchestra in a Nazi occupied territory were simply not true...in addition to the fact that he conducted a Wagner performance for the 1935 annual Nazi music celebration that celebrated the regime's first sweeping anti-Semitic legislation. 3) That his statements of support for Nazi marginalized composers (Schoenberg, Hindemith) were equaled by his attempts to suppress composers he saw as competition. 4) That his decision to remain in Germany to oppose the regime from within was really his only option after a failed attempt to come to America and lead the NY Philharmonic in the late 1930's. Supposedly, when the subscribers to the orchestra heard they were considering hiring Furtwangler, they made it clear they would remove their patronage because of his pro Nazi reputation. 5) That his very public efforts to assist other musicians/composers were not done out of a genuine concern for human rights, but simply an ego based strategy to insure he remained the center of musical attention in Nazi Germany. 6) And most damning to his reputation, that he remained a propaganda tool of Goebbels and the party until the day in 1944 that it was clear there was no more money to be made, and that's when he left for Switzerland. I wonder which viewpoint is correct or if the truth lies somewhere in the middle? ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 30 2013 at 14:05
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There is also a book which i haven't read called "The Twisted Muse", which deals with music and musicians in Nazi Germany.
You know, i think the truth does lie somewhere in the middle. In my final judgement, i am sympathetic to Furtwangler. During the Hindemith affair in the thirties, when he had the unfortunate experience of conducting that composer when Goering was in the audience, he indeed resigned his post as chief conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic in protest, after the regime had directed him not to conduct Hindemith. His letter in protest was publicly published. On the not so good side, i have video footage of him conducting in Germany with giant Nazi swastikas hung behind the orchestra. He left for Switzerland because he was going to be arrested by Himmler, because of his helping of jews to safety. There is that famous quote from Himmler himself-"There isn't a jewish hand that hasn't been shaked by Furtwangler". He had to flee! The Nazis also threatened his mother, which must have been difficult. Furtwangler had a jewish secretary, Berta Geissmar, whom he highly valued. yeah, i guess i have mixed feelings about Furtwangler, but i come out in support of him in the final analysis. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 30 2013 at 15:00
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^ Oops...the book in my collection that I reference actually is "The Twisted Muse"...my mistake. It's clearly a messy and complex history. I can't imagine creating art or music in a totalitarian state where a political party bureaucrat decides if it's worthy or "decadent"...and that label in turn determines whether you're able to continue creating or find yourself and your family sentenced to death (or worse). Further, standing up for an openly oppressed and persecuted minority in such an environment remains incredibly dangerous...even if he was favoured by some members of the ruling party. That could be why Furtwangler seemed to straddle the line of assisting both Jew and Nazi musicians, or sometimes conducting on a Swastika draped stage. Perhaps he had to play the middle road to maintain the ability to pick and choose people he could help? Either way, I think it's a fascinating period in musical history to study.
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 18:13
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You know you have made some good points. Furtwangler is very special to me for his inspired devotion to Bruckner's music, a composer he felt was misunderstood. And his Beethoven and Wagner recordings are also second to none.
I consider those recordings during the Nazi era by him to be "a light in the darkness". Something spiritual and noble amid the madness of Nazism. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: July 31 2013 at 19:51
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The more I reflect on it, I think the possibility that Furtwangler was an Oskar Schindler type of person could be considered. Schindler was only able to help the "Schindlerjuden" by continuing to be part of the system he grew to abhor. For Furtwangler to become "a light in the darkness", he had no choice but to placate the power structure around him to some extent. What good would he have been able to do in exile or imprisoned? The Nazi's realized in the early 30's that the only way to effect change was to become part of the system they wanted to destroy. Furtwangler seems to have taken a page from their own book and used it against them. For some odd reason, a quote from Bram Stoker's Dracula just popped into my head as applicable. Van Helsing ponders, "we have all become God's madmen." I can only wonder if that thought ever crossed the mind of those who remained in Nazi Germany attempting to fight the insanity from within the belly of the beast?
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 16:30
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The Nazis were parasites to a certain extent, and tried oh so hard to "typify" what it was to be German, and it must have turned real German's stomachs sick to have to live amidst their ploys and power games. It is really something to hear the music recordings, and even see the concerts in the DVD "Great Conductors Of The Third Reich" (don't really like that title). What a godsend some of those music nights must have been to Germans who were psychologically and physically at the end of their tether.
Just goes to show you the great healing power of music. The Nazis could not fully take that away! |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 17:16
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^ Great point. It's funny, I was just telling my wife the other day about the early-mid 80's US hardcore punk scene and how it flourished while Reagan was in the White House. In Britain, the Sex Pistols and that whole scene took root while Thatcher was leading the conservative party and then as PM. Ultra conservative/totalitarian/fascist regimes never seem to be able to completely silence musical dissent. Whether it's Furtwangler assisting Jewish musicians, Creedence Clearwater Revivial's singing the anti-Viet Nam war protest song "Fortunate Son", The Sex Pistols with "Anarchy in the UK", The Dead Kennedy's "We've Got a Bigger Problem Now", The Minutemen's "If Reagan Played Disco", Frank Zappa's anti-PMRC album "The Mothers of Prevention", The Dixie Chicks saying they're ashamed GW Bush is from Texas, or Pussy Riot in Russia, somewhere, some band is speaking out against what they see as oppressive authority. Long Live Music! ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 18:35
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..or it could be (ref: Malcolm McLaren, Johnny Lydon et al): "we know a good bandwagon when we see one" ------------- What? |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: August 01 2013 at 19:11
Entirely possible, but any band that refuses to attend their induction ceremony and tells the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" they're "a piss stain" gets extra points from me ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: August 21 2013 at 21:14
| Joan Armatrading's album “Me Myself I” was recorded in New York in March 1980, using mostly local musicians. Among them were Will Lee, Anton Fig, Hiram Bullock and Paul Shaffer, all of whom were future members of the house band on Late Night With David Letterman. Anton was the last to come to the show, circa 1986. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 05 2013 at 03:14
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1970s songer Noosha Fox from glam rock band Fox... ...is the mother of Bad Science author Dr Ben Goldacre MRCPysch ------------- What? |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 05 2013 at 03:42
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I remember Belinda Carlisle used to be affectionately called `The Hoover' because of the amount of coke she used to snort. There's actually a ton of mind-blowing stories about her and the Go-Go's that are a world away from their cutesy girl-next-door public image, really debauchered stuff! The tale about a line of coke, a naked roadie and a vibrator is pretty awesome....well, except for that roadie! Really wicked girls!
(who also put out one of the greatest pop albums ever with `Beauty and the Beat') |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 09:24
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After Anton Bruckner heard conductor Hans Richter conduct the premiere of his Fourth Symphony, he approached Richter after the concert, and pressed a thaler into his hand, and said "Have a drink to your health". Richter attached it to his watch chain and kept it for the rest of his life. Leonard Bernstein recounted how when he first met conductor Serge Koussevitzky to join his conducting class, Koussevitzky did not even look at his information, and said he could join right on the spot. Conductor Serge Koussevitzky made a gift of some cuff links to Leonard Bernstein, and Lenny wore them at every subsequent concert he conducted. When Otto Klemperer made an impressive piano reduction of Gustav Mahler's 2nd Symphony for the composer, Mahler was so impressed that he wrote an endorsement of Klemperer on a card, which Klemperer kept in his wallet for the rest of his life. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: October 08 2013 at 18:05
| German composer Paul Hindemith was also a conductor, an important one of Bruckner, and was quoted as saying that he liked to conduct Bruckner more than any other composer apart from his own music. One year, he recieved the Bruckner Medal of Honour for his efforts. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: October 21 2013 at 17:12
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Sir Thomas Beecham quote-"A harpsichord sounds like two skeletons copulating on a tin roof in a rainstorm." Conductor Leopold Stokowski said of Artur Rodzinski-"Now there is a conductor born, not made." Conductor Sir Malcolm Sargent said to the Viennese while on tour in Austria, "Elgar is a better composer than Bruckner". |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 17:15
My favorite Sir Thomas Beecham quote-"A musicologist is someone who can read music, but can't hear it." Sir Thomas, in his long conducting career, only conducted Mahler once, the Fourth Symphony in 1908. Leonard Bernstein once remarked while rehearsing the scherzo movement of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony, "Wow, the Rite of Spring in 1893!" |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 19:20
| I read that Lemmy of Motorhead and Hawkwind also used to be a roadie for The Nice way back in the day. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 18 2013 at 20:08
I thought Lemmy was a Jimi Hendrix Experience roadie? That guy really got around ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 16 2014 at 08:27
| When planning Walt Disney's original Fantasia movie, they were considering doing some animation set to Wagner's "The Ride Of The Valkyries". |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 16 2014 at 21:45
| Famous Hungarian born conductor Fritz Reiner actually did conduct Bruckner, and there is a recently uncovered partial recording of Bruckner's 4th Symphony from '43 with him. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: February 17 2014 at 04:10
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A movie about Furtwangler (played by Stellan Skarsgaard)and his prosecution by the Allies (Harvey Keitel) for being pro-Nazi. It's quite good but the best bit is when (now real life archive footage) he shakes hands with Goebbels at the end of a gig and behind his back - in full view of the audience and cameras - wipes his hands on a cloth. The film is quite good but the reception comment at the end pretty much gives a fair assessment of the movie. It may be true to life as in films we like definitive closure which does not really happen. Although for me the above ending footage does make it definitive enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_Sides_%28film%29 |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 17 2014 at 04:19
------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: February 17 2014 at 08:30
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: June 20 2014 at 08:53
| French conductor Pierre Monteux did indeed conduct Bruckner, performing the first performance of the 7th Symphony by the San Francisco Symphony in May 1947. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 10 2014 at 21:04
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Conductor Arturo Toscanini once declared Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet Symphony to be "some of the most beautiful music ever written". When conductor Sir Malcolm Sargent told Sir Thomas Beecham that he had been in the Middle East, and a bullet had hit the car he was in, Beecham replied, "I had no idea they were that musical." |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: December 11 2014 at 16:26
Hah! Beecham is awesome indeed!.. And almost no one better than the fantastic Toscanini to say some wise words about music and steering me towards acquiring this awesome Berlioz' symphony for sure, I can't let the time go by without knowing it! Just stunning what Berlioz wrote in his Memoirs: "Beethoven opened before me a new world of music, as Shakespeare had revealed a new universe of poetry."
 -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 11 2014 at 19:59
The Romeo and Juliet Symphony is worth every note that makes it up, Ric. I would suggest Toscanini's complete recording of it, as well as Charles Munch's 1950's account, and that of Pierre Monteux in the early 1960s. That is interesting that quote of Berlioz. He also remarked, "I am picking up where Beethoven left off." I believe that Berlioz also conducted Beethoven's music. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: December 12 2014 at 15:12
Thanks for the precious info Doug! I hope I am lucky enough to find at least one of these great recordings. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 18:49
| Mahler conductor Bruno Walter described the composer's 6th Symphony one time as "One great, big, resounding-NO!!" |