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Topic: Fretless GuitarPosted By: himtroy
Subject: Fretless Guitar
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 01:06
So I'm thinking about making a fretless guitar. I'm planning on doing what I did the one and only other time I've made a guitar and make it with almost all Carvin parts. However I'm going to have to de-fret the neck. The purpose of this topic is to see if anybody sees any flaws in this...because I've been looking around and just wondering why fretless guitars hardly exist? I haven't put much thought into it yet, but I'm assuming the neck process would just be removing the frets and filling it with some kind of wood filler?
1. Yes I know personal made fretless guitars do exist on the internet.
2. Don't ask me why I would want a fretless guitar...why wouldn't I?
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Replies: Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 05:04
Channeling Jaco, eh? You know he made his own fretless bass...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 06:53
I guess it should be possible to remove the frets and fill them in, but how the hell would you play chords on a fretless guitar and what would they sound like? Or are you just going to use it for solos?
Posted By: bogg808
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 07:32
AFAIK, In the G3 Live In Denver DVD, Vai used a triple neck guitar. The bottom neck was fretless. I think he only used it for slide work...
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 09:31
I have a friend/lead guitarist who de-fretted an old squire he has, then filled the grooves with wood filler, sanded it all smooth and re-finished it. It turned out quite nice, and as he used filler of a different colour than the rosewood fretboard, you can still see where the frets were
he also covered it in smiley-face stickers and added a killswitch
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 09:33
chopper wrote:
I guess it should be possible to remove the frets and fill them in, but how the hell would you play chords on a fretless guitar and what would they sound like? Or are you just going to use it for solos?
You can play chords on it, but then you'd need bitchen intonation for that. Or you can do vibratos all the time to disguise it.
To the OP: Do it. Fretless guitars sound really nice if you slap some heavy flatwound strings on it, detune it a whole step and play it like a classical guitarist would do (fingerstyle).
Don't forget to protect the fingerboard somehow; I suggest various epoxy or polyurethane coatings to avoid string wear.
-------------
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 11:16
Chords are possible, just going to be very difficult.
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 14:29
NecronCommander wrote:
Chords are possible, just going to be very difficult.
That's really not a very good video when it comes to representing what a fretless guitar can do.
However, I'm yet to found a video where someone plays deep, sustained, chugging metal riff and then slide it up the neck. I'm curious to know how it will sound.
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:47
himtroy wrote:
So I'm thinking about making a fretless guitar. I'm planning on doing what I did the one and only other time I've made a guitar and make it with almost all Carvin parts. However I'm going to have to de-fret the neck. The purpose of this topic is to see if anybody sees any flaws in this...because I've been looking around and just wondering why fretless guitars hardly exist? I haven't put much thought into it yet, but I'm assuming the neck process would just be removing the frets and filling it with some kind of wood filler?
1. Yes I know personal made fretless guitars do exist on the internet.
2. Don't ask me why I would want a fretless guitar...why wouldn't I?
If you don't have a religious fixation on Carvin parts, you could check out Allparts. They have at least one fretless guitar neck in their catalog: http://www.allparts.com/Plain-Unfinished-Rosewood-Stratocaster-Neck-p/sro-inl.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.allparts.com/Plain-Unfinished-Rosewood-Stratocaster-Neck-p/sro-inl.htm
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:47
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 19:42
lol, guitarrists need frets to play their instrument.
Buch of n00bs.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 22:52
Yeah I've played with my friends fretless bass a lot and we just always think....fretless guitar. Yeah chords would be difficult, but once I got used to it I'd definitely be able to. And to whoever said classical styled guitar, I''m already like that. I haven't used a pick for quite a while and I have a classical guitar background.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: December 09 2010 at 17:14
I've changed my mind slightly. Stewart Mcdonald Guitar Parts (stewmac.com I believe) has more options for the kit. Also they have unfinished necks, so I'm going to make it the scale for a 24 fret, but really it will be fretless. (A better fretless since I won't have to remove them and fill it in) Also this way I can make it a hollow body, which I'd prefer. This site opens up way more options
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 05:38
Good luck. Fretless all the way! (I have 4 basses, of which three are fretless)
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 08:09
himtroy wrote:
I've changed my mind slightly. Stewart Mcdonald Guitar Parts (stewmac.com I believe) has more options for the kit. Also they have unfinished necks, so I'm going to make it the scale for a 24 fret, but really it will be fretless. (A better fretless since I won't have to remove them and fill it in) Also this way I can make it a hollow body, which I'd prefer. This site opens up way more options
While you're at it, get some gunstock oil and use it to finish the back of the neck.
If you want to learn more stuff, there's quite a bit of info at talkbass.com. I know it's a bass website, but there's a f***ton of useful information that applies to every ocidental stringed instrument out there in the Luthier section.
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 07:15
Thanks for the Ron Thal tip. The musician I'm aware of promoting the fretless guitar is Scott McGill - check out his last couple of releases
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 11:40
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 14:49
This project changed massively. I ended up buying predominantly Warmoth parts (had them personally make the fretless neck), with some outside hardware as well. I'm also either putting a Sustaniac pickup or Fernandes Sustainers in it. For those who don't know what those are, they cause the string to vibrate giving you infinite sustain, while alternate settings give you infinite sustain with different harmonic settings. However I can't find a good audio sample of what these sound like when clean. Every damn person online who demonstrates them has absurd amounts of cheesy sounding distortion on making it impossible to tell what they actually sound like.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 16:19
Mmm, Warmoth necks are supposed to be nice. I want to see how this turns out.
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Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 16:44
I can do fretless vocals and also use lots of cheesy distortions
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: January 19 2011 at 21:32
NecronCommander wrote:
Mmm, Warmoth necks are supposed to be nice. I want to see how this turns out.
It is very nice. The shape of the back is incredibly comfortable and the fretless fretboard looks amazing. The guy I talked to on the phone who worked on it took the time to inlay the fret slots with mahogany. So it's a very nice rosewood neck with mahogany inlays. I will certainly upload some pics and hopefully link an audio sample when the guitar is complete.
And how many more of these bad fretless jokes can we have? Fretless piano, fretless vocals...
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 06:57
Well, there IS a fretless piano:
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Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 10:26
himtroy wrote:
So I'm thinking about making a fretless guitar. I'm planning on doing what I did the one and only other time I've made a guitar and make it with almost all Carvin parts. However I'm going to have to de-fret the neck. The purpose of this topic is to see if anybody sees any flaws in this...because I've been looking around and just wondering why fretless guitars hardly exist? I haven't put much thought into it yet, but I'm assuming the neck process would just be removing the frets and filling it with some kind of wood filler?
1. Yes I know personal made fretless guitars do exist on the internet.
2. Don't ask me why I would want a fretless guitar...why wouldn't I?
Jaco Pastorius removed his frets and filled the gaps with epoxy resin which gave his bass a unique tone. There is some killer fretless sounds out there, I like Pino Palladino then there's Percy Jones, Mick Karn (RIP) etc...... Good luck with your project! Tony C.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 16:06
clarkpegasus4001 wrote:
himtroy wrote:
So I'm thinking about making a fretless guitar. I'm planning on doing what I did the one and only other time I've made a guitar and make it with almost all Carvin parts. However I'm going to have to de-fret the neck. The purpose of this topic is to see if anybody sees any flaws in this...because I've been looking around and just wondering why fretless guitars hardly exist? I haven't put much thought into it yet, but I'm assuming the neck process would just be removing the frets and filling it with some kind of wood filler?
1. Yes I know personal made fretless guitars do exist on the internet.
2. Don't ask me why I would want a fretless guitar...why wouldn't I?
Jaco Pastorius removed his frets and filled the gaps with epoxy resin which gave his bass a unique tone. There is some killer fretless sounds out there, I like Pino Palladino then there's Percy Jones, Mick Karn (RIP) etc...... Good luck with your project! Tony C.
That is the approach I was originally planning on taking until the guy at Warmoth offered to take one of the necks that weren't finished and inlay the fret slots with mahogany. This seemed better as I've heard that even people with experience chip the fretboard a bit when removing the frets. Seeing as I've never worked on anything wood related at all that wouldn't end well.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: January 23 2011 at 12:51
And I keep re-staining the neck over and over and it just won't take. I've done this at least eight times. This is probably the most aggravating thing I've ever done (that position was previously held by making a lot of tape loops out of cassettes). Every time I load up the stain like it says to, then it says remove after no more than three minutes. At this point I'm breaking that and leaving it on for 30 minutes+, but still when I go to "wipe off the excess stain that hasn't soaked in" it all comes off and I'm left with blank wood with a little bit of stain catching in the same places each time.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: January 23 2011 at 13:00
Finish the neck with gunstock oil; that's the same material the guys at Ernie Ball/Music Man use to finish their instrument's necks.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 01 2011 at 12:55
Starhammer wrote:
Finish the neck with gunstock oil; that's the same material the guys at Ernie Ball/Music Man use to finish their instrument's necks.
I was considering it, but I actually have many guitars including one I previously made. That one had nothing but tung oil and a satin finish polyurethane on it (didn't know any better at the time) and It's actually my favorite feeling guitar. I just love the feel of really smooth wood in my hand.
I asked somebody about what they recommended and they started on with "well if you don't want to void our warranty" and I cut them off right there and said, it's a fretless neck, I completely reshaped the headstock and neck in every way, and I stained parts of it green. The warranty is long gone."
Thats me! No not really, but thats the best fretless video I've found. It helps that it's not distorted beyond belief and used in a shred kinda way (not a fan). Also he picks up an ebow which is similar to what I'll have going on with the sustainer pickups (works basically the same way).
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: February 03 2011 at 19:31
^^^
now i want one too... but I don't think I have the patience or skills to make one...
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:16
Here's how that is going, I've just finished the wood and put on the tuners. I really have no idea what I'm doing wiring a guitar other than switching out pickups and i bought that sustainer system, so I'm definitely having someone wire all the electronics. I have someone in mind that would do it for pretty cheap,though I'll obviously still pay them well. I'm very satisfied with how the body came out. To note, that hole where the control knobs would be isn't really going to be there at all, it's going to have to be made much larger for the sustainer panel. The panel is very badass because it's clear and you can see all the electronics inside.
If anyone is interested I'll get pictures of the neck. The fretless rosewood fretboard is pretty smooth looking.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:32
Proletariat wrote:
^^^
now i want one too... but I don't think I have the patience or skills to make one...
You could do it. Skills are irrelevant. I've NEVER done anything technical or worked with wood before this experience other than applying tung oil to a carvin kit that I had someone build me (was too young). I'm only 18 and any labor I've ever done was generic chores or generic jobs (movie theatre, restaurants). I was never taught anything about any such things either. A little research and finding a kit site (or just use Warmoth) is pretty simple and they send you EVERYTHING you need. Granted you'll most likely want someone experienced to do the wiring but if you or a friend can't do so then a local music store wouldn't charge much for such work. If finishing wood is you're worry then doing a clear Old English and Tung Oil finish is pretty damn hard to mess up and looks VERY nice.
Also you could always just order a fretless neck off Warmoth, you can find a neck to fit most standard guitars. If not just call and talk to them and theres a good chance they'll work it out. You also have to call when placing the order online about the neck being fretless, as it isn't an option on the site. All you'd have to do then is apply a clear coat of something (or paint/stain/whatever you want), put on the tuners (which I just did in twenty minutes) and screw it onto the body. My neck was done the most expensive way possible. I could have gone with a completely blank fretboard or one with inlays but no frets (so I could fill it with wood putty), but I took them up on the offer of a rosewood fretboard with mahogany inlays where the frets would be. This was essential because a blank neck would be absolutely ridiculous to play if you weren't experienced on a fretless guitar......which most of us aren't....Anyway, mine was $180 all neck related things included.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 15 2011 at 11:27
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 15 2011 at 11:30
NecronCommander wrote:
Mmm, Warmoth necks are supposed to be nice. I want to see how this turns out.
'
Indeed the neck is absolutely amazing. Not even taking into account the fretless aspect, its just so thin and smooth to play on. I definitely prefer then to the Fender necks they are "imitating"
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: March 15 2011 at 14:59
Wow. That looks pretty f*cking awesome. When can we hear a sound sample?
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: March 15 2011 at 15:45
f**king awesome job man, now I really want to build one myself well done.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 15 2011 at 23:38
I'll get something up soon. My mixer broke so I can't really record a band, just myself.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: March 16 2011 at 17:34
himtroy wrote:
Proletariat wrote:
^^^
now i want one too... but I don't think I have the patience or skills to make one...
You could do it. Skills are irrelevant. I've NEVER done anything technical or worked with wood before this experience other than applying tung oil to a carvin kit that I had someone build me (was too young). I'm only 18 and any labor I've ever done was generic chores or generic jobs (movie theatre, restaurants). I was never taught anything about any such things either. A little research and finding a kit site (or just use Warmoth) is pretty simple and they send you EVERYTHING you need. Granted you'll most likely want someone experienced to do the wiring but if you or a friend can't do so then a local music store wouldn't charge much for such work. If finishing wood is you're worry then doing a clear Old English and Tung Oil finish is pretty damn hard to mess up and looks VERY nice.
Also you could always just order a fretless neck off Warmoth, you can find a neck to fit most standard guitars. If not just call and talk to them and theres a good chance they'll work it out. You also have to call when placing the order online about the neck being fretless, as it isn't an option on the site. All you'd have to do then is apply a clear coat of something (or paint/stain/whatever you want), put on the tuners (which I just did in twenty minutes) and screw it onto the body. My neck was done the most expensive way possible. I could have gone with a completely blank fretboard or one with inlays but no frets (so I could fill it with wood putty), but I took them up on the offer of a rosewood fretboard with mahogany inlays where the frets would be. This was essential because a blank neck would be absolutely ridiculous to play if you weren't experienced on a fretless guitar......which most of us aren't....Anyway, mine was $180 all neck related things included.
THanks for the ecouragement!!!
I would love to do this but im afraid im a poor starving student at the moment, and besides I need to restore the 1965 12 string (acoustic) Ultravox I inherited before I go and build a fretless guitar!
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 17 2011 at 20:39
Yeah this project has made me pretty poor as well. If I didn't work a lot I couldn't have done it
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 19:04
NecronCommander wrote:
Wow. That looks pretty f*cking awesome. When can we hear a sound sample?
The track I posted in another thread has two very minimal fretless tracks. I recorded it with the intention of keeping it very ambient (Brian Eno?) and playing a "lead" over it with more fretless (as well as adding in other things). So you can hear it in the latter part of that, but I'll upload it soon with lead over it so the fretless is more prominent. A friend is currently borrowing my nicer mic.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 19:13
Polo wrote:
chopper wrote:
I guess it should be possible to remove the frets and fill them in, but how the hell would you play chords on a fretless guitar and what would they sound like? Or are you just going to use it for solos?
You can play chords on it, but then you'd need bitchen intonation for that. Or you can do vibratos all the time to disguise it.
To the OP: Do it. Fretless guitars sound really nice if you slap some heavy flatwound strings on it, detune it a whole step and play it like a classical guitarist would do (fingerstyle).
Don't forget to protect the fingerboard somehow; I suggest various epoxy or polyurethane coatings to avoid string wear.
Thats very strange that you mention everything that you just did. I didn't remember this comment at all and just before making the fretless I'd gotten into finger picking and I haven't touched a pick in over half a year. Now I recently realised tuning BEADGb is incredibly nice sounding and I put on size 13 flatwounds. I play everything I'd normally play still if I have to, but more importantly it's a hell of an instrument that seems very distant form being a guitar (the optional unlimited sustain helps). And yes I can play chords absolutely fine (I did make the intonation dominant, but it's fretless so really just make the neck absolutely flat.)
All you have to avoid is things like when doing a the generic bar chord shape the third finger and pinky that get the fifth and octave....not really happening. Getting two fingers ACTUALLY horizontal (since theres no frets) doesn't really work. But I always did lots of weird chord shapes any way so it's only made me more forcibly creative.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 18:09
I completed the previous track and added in Rhodes Piano and more prominent fretless.
I'll probably record a solo fretless performance as well.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 18:22
That sounded really nice.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 19:17
Yeah I keep running into the issue of I can play great, but then when I know it's recording I always mess up!
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:11
I remixed it very slightly. I mixed it on my dominant headphones before and noticed today that on anything else the low end too ridiculous.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:37
^^^^
that video is private, so it cant be viewed
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:30
Paul Shigihara of the WDR Big Band on a fretless guitar and the late Charlie Mariano of the United Jazz and Rock Ensemble or Jasper van't Hof's Pork Pie on sax (he also played with Embryo on a few albums).
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 20:48
^^^^
wow!
where do I start at to get into these guys?
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: April 09 2011 at 21:20
Yeah sorry I fixed the private issue
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 13:42
Stew-Mac's latest "Trade Secrets!" newsletter email de-frets a bass:
Posted By: ArcNatrix
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 14:17
I jammed on a fretless guitar before. The guy who owned it filed down each fret individually until they met at the fingerboard and I don't know if he did additional work but the neck was very smooth. Lead guitar was fun as hell and if you use power chords then it doesn't take too much getting used to. Anything beyond that was a bit of a motherf**ker to play. Stylistically I prefer frets but a fretless can open doors.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: May 21 2011 at 13:18
The fretless is the only guitar I use anymore really, other than when playing classical pieces. I do chords all the time, you just can't do bar chords. I tune it BEADGC anyway so generic chord shapes are gone, being replaced with much more interesting voices. I really want to make an arch-top, short scale, nylon string fretless but that'd probably require making it from scratch....which I'm probably not capable of.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: sturoc
Date Posted: June 08 2011 at 22:28
That guy in the Locobazooka vid sounded like alot of noise covering his lack of true fretless guitar technique. Fast Forward to Charlie Mariano vid now that's technique. Larry Coryell Played an acoustic fretless of one of his many Lps.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: July 07 2011 at 17:27
Now I'm working on making my Godin guitar fretless. A fretless Nylon string is a must, it's this guitar that I plan to do this one (already own it).
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 00:02
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
Posted By: warrplayer
Date Posted: August 23 2011 at 14:45
Lots of fretless guitar on Herd of Instinct's self titled release
Posted By: progistoomainstream
Date Posted: October 14 2011 at 23:02
I have multiple reasons why you should not Buy a Fretless Guitar. If you are a Progger not a Countryman
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 16 2011 at 02:33
progistoomainstream wrote:
I have multiple reasons why you should not Buy a Fretless Guitar. If you are a Progger not a Countryman
I don't know what you're going on about, but this topic is very old and having owned two fretless guitars for quite some time now I respectfully disagree with you. Not to mention that what is anti prog about a fretless guitar? I'm far from a "Countryman"...I go to school for classical guitar and much more backed in jazz than anything else (and certainly not country).
That second "sentence" doesn't even have a topic.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.