The wide ranging discussion on the definition of prog below was most informative but instead of the two hundred or so (and counting) sub genres let me assist in a simplification. There is Yes music and the rest.......You knows it clarts!

Secondly, the discussion about Opeth, well, Damnation sure has its moments especially the opening track window pane.I read a review in Classic Rock two years ago and bought this album on the strength of that. It was a most welcome intro into death metal only without the death and well no metal either really. A very pleasing if a little gloomy album. I then heard when the drapery falls on this site.A magnificent opus. If this is death metal i thought then i'm in....the growls were a little silly but the lighter parts gave it balance and so i bought Blackwater park.

Now the lyrics for the first two tracks ..something about lepers or something (yeah but no but yeah) and bleak have the silliest lyrics of all time. They now officially challenge Vogon poetry as the worst in the universe  here is a sample

We entered Winter once again
Naked, freezing from my breath
‘Neath the lid, all limbs tucked away
This coffin is your abode from now and onwards

Your body is mine to avail
Such a tragic sight you are
Slave under my creed
Spurring me with those tears

I am beyond death
Midst a dreaming affinity
Saving strength now, faint whispers
Come erotic communion in its splendour

Fever mirrored ghosts
Night-time consolation, cross the line
Draw murder into art
Sleep inside through days
 

Utter and complete bollocks! 

However i must add that the tracks Harvest Patterns in the Ivy and the drapery falls are musically excellent even though the lyrics for Harvest are Dire, really bad makes Vogon works sound like Kipling.

So my excursion into death metal ends there i think. The growling is just silly the lyrics awful but some of the music is highly crafted which makes Opeth an interesting band, but not worth exploring the deathier stuff.

And before you start on Andersons lyrics don't bother because i am not humble nor prone to humility none of this is opinion it is fact! ........ ( oh yes it is!) .........(and the same to you too!)

This line is pretty silly:

"Those who turn the leaves wither like a flower" (Ayreon: Actual Fantasy, confused leaves with pages)

lynton samuel wrote: well, that's your opinion. i don't agree with you about the lyrics. i think they fit well into their sound and purpose. i think the growling is just beautiful, you either handle it, or not.

The growling grows on you in case of Opeth and some other Death Metal bands. But I agree that sometimes growling is awful and really non-musical. Opeth on the other hand features particularly good growling, where you can always understand what he's singing, and the pitch and phrasing of the growl fits the underlying music.

I agree too, as far as growling goes there is none better . But those Lyrics!

For great Lyrics i always preferred bands Like the Smiths and Prefab Sprout. For daft lyrics Echo and the Bunnymen were quite open that they just wrote any thing that rhymed and sounded good. But the greatest achievement must have been the cocteau twins whose lyrics were inconsequential as Liz frazer just turned them into a soundscape quite brilliantly.

AfanSpur wrote: I agree too, as far as growling goes there is none better . But those Lyrics!

That's a language problem. I always wonder why bands which are that popular don't invest a small amount of money to show the lyrics to someone who natively speaks english, to avoid serious bloopers.

But then again I also don't understand why the Rhapsody singer refuses to loose his italian accent ... the lyrics would be as cheesy as before, but you could at least ignore them

AfanSpur wrote: What about just singing in the native language and providing a written translation? I quite admired Rammstein for singing in german. Hadn't a clue what they were singing but it got me going.

Most bands want to address an international audience AND they want their audience to understand the lyrics.

SomethingGood wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: This line is pretty silly: "Those who turn the leaves wither like a flower" (Ayreon: Actual Fantasy, confused leaves with pages) have you never heard the expression "turning over a new leaf"?

Yeah but no but yeah ,, it doesnt work in the Ayreon example does it ?

SomethingGood wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: This line is pretty silly: "Those who turn the leaves wither like a flower" (Ayreon: Actual Fantasy, confused leaves with pages) have you never heard the expression "turning over a new leaf"?

I've never heard it before, but I looked it up and it doesn't apply, because the Ayreon song is about a book, and it's "leaves".

Opeth's lyrics are purely aesthetic, and that's that. They fit perfectly in the context of the band and albums.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: SomethingGood wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: This line is pretty silly: "Those who turn the leaves wither like a flower" (Ayreon: Actual Fantasy, confused leaves with pages) have you never heard the expression "turning over a new leaf"? I've never heard it before, but I looked it up and it doesn't apply, because the Ayreon song is about a book, and it's "leaves".

A leaf means a page.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Leaf - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Leaf , definition 3.

goose wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: SomethingGood wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: This line is pretty silly: "Those who turn the leaves wither like a flower" (Ayreon: Actual Fantasy, confused leaves with pages) have you never heard the expression "turning over a new leaf"? I've never heard it before, but I looked it up and it doesn't apply, because the Ayreon song is about a book, and it's "leaves". A leaf means a page.   http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Leaf - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Leaf , definition 3.

All the definitions that I could find don't list that meaning. Is it commonly used in contemporary english? I think that the first definition is much more common, and saying "turn the leaf" instead of "turn the page" is at least unusual.

goose wrote: It is archaic, and it'd be strange if someone said it in conversation, but it doesn't look out of place in a song. Also, I think it's used to add depth to the withering flower image later on. I'm sure there's another song that has something like "leaves of a book" in one of the lines, but I've no idea what it is.

I admit that "leaves" also sounds better than "pages" in that context. Also, it's an archaic book they're talking about

yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but i dont know but yeah maybe but no but sometimes but maybe but defintely but yeah.You were going out with mandy withers Colin you two timing........!

I would like to see Opeth use lyrics like this , far more contemporary!