Why do italians like prog rock but french don't
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Topic: Why do italians like prog rock but french don't
Posted By: Oveluus
Subject: Why do italians like prog rock but french don't
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 21:58
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Replies:
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 21:58
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The French are too snobby even for Porg Rock. Leave them to their wine and cheese, I say.
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:01
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It is a bit odd that a nation with a reputation for being extremely serious about art and pretentious doesn't have much time for prog.
Or is it? Because before you have prog rock, you need to have ROCK. And the French never really rock 'n' rolled. Hale And Pace even made a song about it.
Rock was too crass or barbaric or American or something so it never really took off. Name some significant rock bands from France. Exactly. And without a regular rock scene, how could a prog rock scene survive/develop?
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:05
Plastic Bertrand? No, wait that's Belgium. I got nothing... -------------
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Textbook wrote:Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:09
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There is a section on allmusic about French Rock. It contains a total of ten artists, none of which (except the above mentioned which is actually Belgian) I have heard of. http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/french-rock-d7744 - http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/french-rock-d7744 -------------
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Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:19
Are we not counting Magma? ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:26
Of course not. Don't be silly. -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 22:43
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The French avant-rock scene doesn't really count as signficant for mainstream culture, although I think the OP would be unfair to marginalize them in comparison to Italy's prog scene. I also can't think of a regular rock band from France, I guess they were all too busy listening to Edith Piaf. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 23:01
| Why do Canadians like prog rock but americans don't? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 23:05
What are you talking about? There are more American members and more American bands on this site than Canadian ones. I don't care how great Rush is, they don't make Canadians more prog friendly than the US. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 23:06
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There has been plenty of great music made in France... Rock just isn't in their blood... ------------- 
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 23:10
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In fact, even France has a much bigger presence on PA than Canada. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60508&PID=3351263#3351263 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60508&PID=3351263#3351263 -------------
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 23:43
| Maybe because the French are........French. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 00:32
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But are you sure about Italians? Lot of RPI bands doesn't mean that a significant percentage of Italians love prog. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 00:34
| The Italians took Van Der Graaf Generator to #1 on their charts. Think about that. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 02:27
| You have to be kidding me... |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 02:28
Same reason the English like prog but Scots don't?
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Posted By: idlero
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 02:32
| I think we should let the French answer this question |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 03:38
One prog band at #1 for a week (if we don't consider Pink Floyd) in the last 40 years can't be considered statistically significant. It's just 1 on 2080 weeks. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 03:44
| I'm gonna leave this here: ../Bands-country.asp?country=71 - FRANCE |
Posted By: luc4fun
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 04:00
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Don't know about french people, but I have an idea about the reason why italians like prog. Actually it would be better saying "why during the seventies, many prog bands were born or had success in Italy". Dont forget that most of italian prog lovers today have white hair...  Anyway, IHO my idea is that italians in general are eclectic, do not like rigid rules or standard parameters. In this way, prog is exactly what italians like: music without limits in parameters, metric or fixed schemes. Last but not least, italian composers in classic music, had their influence in italian people musical taste. ------------- Site Admin at www.progrockwall.com the first social network for Proggers! |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 04:24
Just because the English-speaking world will only listen to English-speaking bands doesn't mean France can't rock. Telephone was one of the great punk bands. And while Nirvana got all the press, I was more interested in Noir Desir. These two bands are probably the ones the French would consider the most significant bands. If Noir Desir had been British instead of French, they'd be a household name and "Un homme presse" would have been as significant a song in the US/UK as Beck's "Loser", Radiohead's "Creep" and the Verve's "Bittersweet Symphony," etc. Let's see, a great rock album would be Soldat Louis' 1988 album Première bordée. Indochine was one of the great 80s bands anywhere. Of current bands, M83's the one that has impressed me the most, drawing as they do from shoegaze and My Bloody Valentine's playbooks. I guess in the electronica and dance genres France has produced a number of significant artists. But still, generally, yeah, France has always been somewhat insulated so that the sheer number of rock bands produced by England and the US could never be matched by France. Much of their music draws from other traditions (the chansons, for example). Still, there's a great many French singers I love, from Gainsbourg and some of the ye-ye singers to singer-songwriters like Alain Souchon, Etienne Daho and Francis Cabrel. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 04:32
Yes i agree with this post. And the reason why French don't like prog is difficult to answer. I just noticed reading many reviews of Prog Rock cd's that they are very demanding regarding the vocals and lyrics contents of a cd. And if they don't like one of those they will put down a cd even if the music content is very good. Or maybe it's just because they are jealous that the Britain people have taking over the genre in the 70's.  |
Posted By: ten years after
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 06:06
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France produced Ange so at least some personnes Francaises must have appreciated prog genius. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 06:23
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I think I'm the first to point out that this is one hell of a sweeping generalisation. If I were a French prog fan (and there are probably lots of them) I'd be pretty miffed.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 06:37
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Ah come on, the French don't like anything. Except for fries... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 08:32
And those are actually Belgian. As I am. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 08:35
| No SERIOUSLY. I've never heard such a stupid question. In prog's 1970s heyday French music mags wrote about nothing but prog. And as others have said, the French had their own significant bands, from Atoll to Magma, with lots of others in between. One of my favourite prog albums of all time was dominated by French players (and composers): Gong's GAZEUSE. |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 08:38
| P.S. Nowadays there's Forgas Band Phenomena, who are also French and as proggy as you could ever hope for. Allons enfants! |
Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 08:48
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As a french, I find this question stupid but funny
------------- My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/ My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/" rel="nofollow - http://groovesandmemories.com/ |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 08:52
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probably (not quite) rock but they are very famous outside of france and have a huge following, and are respected for their green metal/nature eniviromentalist
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Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 09:28
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Maybe because of questions like this one? Mais à vrai dire je crois que c'est un préjugé mal fondé. + En France il y a Débussy, Ravel; Berlioz etc. It's much better than all progbands IMO . ++ Don't you think that Symphonie Fantastique of Berlioz is a real forerunner of progrock?? ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 09:45
This is an excellent point! Of all the symphonies I know (from Haydn to Arvo Part) it's the proggiest by far! A concept album avant la lettre! |
Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 09:47
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No wonder Berlioz was always booed by his fellow countrymen!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:05
What's funny and I don't if you had heard this already is that when the French came out in opposition to the Iraq was some dumbasses started renaming their French Fries Freedom Fries. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:15
| Because the French have Zeuhl and a lot of good fusion/prog bands. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:19
12 weeks. |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:23
i'm a french prog fan since 1969 and all the prog shows where i've been were sold out ,this topic could be a joke but i'm not so sure.......a lot of bullsh*t but nevermind, just remember the floyd started to become very very famous in france first 1968 (american were deaf at the time ) GREETING FROM A FRENCH SUCKER WHO ONLY KNOWS ABOUT CHEESE AND WINE
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Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:29
Salut!  I'm not sure that this thread should be taken seriously as it doesn't make any sense at all or maybe prog bands are played on the radio or in tv shows in Italy? I guess it's the same than everywhere... But we have Magma so... End of thread ------------- My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/ My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/" rel="nofollow - http://groovesandmemories.com/ |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:36
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------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:44
| Thanks brother i fell a bit less alone et nous avions aussi PULSAR,ATOLL,ANGE,CATHARSIS et bien d'autres ALL THE BEST |
Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:47
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Yes! My personal favourites : Tai Phong two first albums and En Regardant Passer le Temps by Carpe Diem. I really like the Anarchnoid album as well Anyway, the original poster has only one post (well, if we can call that a post, with one letter... lol) and didn't come back, did he? So... ------------- My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/ My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/" rel="nofollow - http://groovesandmemories.com/ |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:50
| jean-marie, I smelled a rat when I saw this thread, hence my ironic post. The OP was online a minute ago and it would have been nice to hear from him/her. Hope he's not trying to yank anyone's chain. |
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:52
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For the simple reason that Italians and Canadians(especially)are more progressive(in mind too) musically.Generally,the progressive minds exist in countries with good(mostly I mean the progressive way of thinking of a culture)culture,less suffering historically and the characteristings of people from a country or from a town e.t.c.(that maybe exist"a priori").But this subject is very strange and complicated in it's base. |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:57
| You know what? i'm realy amazed CARPE DIEM is known in foreign countries but that means real music lovers have no frontiers and are beautiful souls |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:00
| When did this get moved to JFF, btw? |
Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:03
I think so ------------- My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/ My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/" rel="nofollow - http://groovesandmemories.com/ |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:14
| Two great prog bands from France that imediately spring to mind are Nemo and Nil. |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:17
| Thanks for that and i must say i love your avatar cause i'm a great moodies fan ALL THE BEST |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:24
| Nemo and nyl? sure! great ! and do you know about terpandre and shylock ? |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:26
I'm sure a mod with proper perspective intended to murder the topic through starvation.  ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 12:32
I could be wrong, but I think that Triceratopsoil's intention in asking about Canadians and Americans was to draw attention to the absurdity of making huge generalizations about whole nations in relation to their relative preferences for a particular genre of music. It was not a serious question. Just a very good one. |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:34
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Why should French people care about prog-rock? It's an awful creation of these damned English jelly eaters! Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, ELP, Jethro Tull, Van der Graaf Generator, Henry Cow, Gentle Giant, Soft Machine, Pink Floyd... ALL OF THEM ARE ENGLISH! THE ENGLISH BURNT JOAN OF ARC AND WE SHOULD BUY RECORDS FROM THEM???? HELL, NO!!!!! P.S.:  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:36
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Something in the bread?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 14:40
Hell, yeah, I've found some mint in my bread today. ENGLISH DECEIT FOR SURE! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 16:05
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Hi,
I always did like the French "laissez-faire" attitude, even with music and many of the arts ... and their experimental side is very good and a lot more fun than the English side. It's also weirder and a lot less "composed" ... just let it fly.
It was always weird to me that we consider Heldon "progressive" when it is quite clearly just an experiment in sound and to see where it takes one's fingers. It is as experimental and improvisational as things can come!
I also think that a lot of their other bands have a lot more going for their desire to do the work, than the London contingent that quite often is way too self conscious on becoming famous ... which makes the let it all hang out style of music much better and more interesting than otherwise. Too much of the English/London music is formulaic and sounds the same ... whereas we can not exactly say that about the French music ... and one of the best examples of total free form and lack of concern for a form, is how Alan Stivell can play just about with any style and anything and his many albums have it all ... but will never get discussed here! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 03:42
| Alan Stivell is not French. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 03:48
Geographically speaking I think yes. If I'm not wrong he's from Bretagne so he's as French as Asterix, Obelix and Panoramix. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 04:03
You mean that Stivell is not real and is a character from a comic book?  Ooooh, it would explain a lot of things... |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 04:14
IS ASTERIX UNREAL ??!!! Oh my god......  ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 10:31
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Oddly enough I clicked on this after starting an Alan Stivell album.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 13:34
You might want to pick up his album "Before Landing" ... and find out how French he is ... and how political he can be ... and this goes back a lot further than Queen Margot ... and the film takes a massive dig and stab at it, too! Only thing missing was a little more of Alan's music!
Let's say that it is ... ball'istic! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 13:41
My favorite albums of his, are the ones with a rock band ... he really lets them rock it out nicely. And some versions of Popp Plinn are ... yeah ... sorry, I'll take this over 21st Century Progressive Turkeys any time!
Goodness, it must be that time of the year ... I'm hungry! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 13:47
It was Renaissance de la harpe celtique. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 14:02
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Hi,
Actually I think there is a really good explanation here, but you will have to go read the Cliff Notes, if this one doesn't grab you.
When you look back at some of the literary, and specially film, history in France, you can check into the 50's and the 60's ... and the "new wave" that it created, was slightly parallel to the English version of the "angry young men" ... and it was a bit anti-social and all that.
But the French, had more literature and guts. They pretty much invented "surrealism" and later stole "dadaism" from that spanish type guy and did it better and weirder than he did ... and a few years later, you had this one guy that was a film reviewer and he noticed that ... people were a bunch of automatons ... and only related to the same thing over and over again ... and he started to do something called "anti-film".
It is not difficult to see, the same thing done in many of the arts in France. It has a very healthy disrespect for art as a commercial product and an institution ... and I think that is a good thing. In the same sense, we tend, here, to think that London is the home and planet for progressive, and the majority of examples we have come from there, but we rarely compare the art scenes that these were a part of ... which were very similar ... but the French didn't need to get stoned with dope to create something weird with music ... they were already doing it, so the California style of doped up music with nothing else in it, was not as important to them, just like any London music was not either!
In the end, the way that "progressive" music was done in France, fit really well with the arts and the scenes ... let's just say that the French were much better at having a cup of coffee and discuss the merits of good sex and marigolds and music and whatever else, than people were in London ... the weird thing here being that the London scene is so socialistic that it is pathetic (meaning similar and copied), whereas in France the individuality, was the greater sign of the art and work ...
Now, Italy ... is really big on institutions ... really big. So, of course, their "progressive" music is more tied up to an institution than anything else ... and almost all of the bands were classically oriented. With one difference ... for Italians, it was a lot more about ... doing their own music ... than it was about being "progressive" by the definitions we have ... for the italians, going to the concert to see an orchestra with Fellini ... (oooppppsss Karajan) ... directing was too old hat and boring, so getting electric and playing rock music was their own statement ... that I know music too! So it becomes a generational thing of sorts, in a funny sort of way ... and you can see the quality and dedication and virtuosity in the work ... the bad part being ... that a whole bunch of schools of music and classical morons, let all these people slip away ... and not gave them a chance ... and that is the part that is hurting a lot of classical music all over the world ... when change comes, you throw your kid out of the house ... few of us, can work with it. But sometimes that kid ends up going further because of it, than otherwise ... but many times, the music and the art itself suffers.
The best definition of "progressive" music is the one that shows the link between the time, the space, the person and the arts ... because a lot of everything else, becomes lost, and not discussed, or appreciated ... progressive music is an art ... a part of (and WITH) many other arts ... not some song that turns you on! It can do that, but it's more than that ...
To me, Heldon was "anti-music" ... and Ange was a natural progression from a literary point of view and was very well written from an intelectual view point, as opposed to Genesis, being more personal, and ELP being more anti-social. Ange at that time was already trying to be more internal and spiritual via the art than most bands ... (Ego et Deus) ... but we think that The Lamb is more important ... and they are both equally important. But, Banco, for example, fits in another area ... supreme musicians that know what they are doing, and they are not interested in pop music at all ... something that we have a hard time accepting here, specially when it comes to "prog".
In the end, I think that the Italians were simply enjoying their own music ... a lot more than we gave them credit for, and the big names in "progressive", were a perfect representation of the extension in music and what could be done with it ... that all classical music was not doing. It's the same in America, but disguised under the commercial umbrella, which is now killing the rest of music altogether and a new scene and artistic revolution will be necessary to get the point across so people stop sucking up to the media -- that feeds them the same grub! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 14:15
That's his first and many think his best. Personally, I think his forays into rock, jazz, and all out blow outs with orchestra (Symphonie Celtique) are much better and also show a compositional and creative side that is hard to explain, but it definitly shows an open-ness in music that is very French. GEt his "Live" albums ... in Dublin ... and the one made for America (I think) called "Again" ... which is a sort of best of ... and has guitars the way we like them! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 14:51
No, I might not want. And I don't care about how French he can be, as I tend to disregard all that is French: - These people are usually unclean (most of them have baths or showers only three or four days a week); - 40% of French people are illiterate; - Talking about politics with a French is horrible: either they support Communism, or they support right-wing bigotry; - They stole their ideas from other people: that "Dada" thing was created in Zürich by a Romanian artist, Tristan Tzara, and his most famous companions were German (Hugo Ball, Huelsenbeck, Hans Richter)... And Surrealism was nothing but a dissidence of Dada led by the horribly stubborn stalinist André Breton. On the other hand, French people seem to enjoy Black Metal, even in (and maybe for) its worst aspects... |
Posted By: progpositivity
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 17:29
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Ah, but the French make a very dramatic form of neo-prog, no?
------------- Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com |
Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 21:29
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This is a very silly question. Ignoring the fact that I see no evidence to support the claim that the French unilaterally dislike prog, why does any art form flourish in one culture and fail to take root in another? Why are the Russians so into ballet? What's up with Kenya and running? I'm certain you could consult a very specialized anthropologist, but short of a sociological dissertation, there aren't any answers to this question. And please, no eugenics-related garbage. ------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart. http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 20 2010 at 03:30
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^^^ Yeah, given the number of prog rock bands from France, it's a gross generalization to say they don't like prog rock (one of the most important prog scenes outside Britain and Germany!) but Italians do because I highly doubt RPI is liked any more in Italy than prog in any country in general. It is fairer to say however that Germany and Sweden made a bigger impact than either on the rock scene.
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: November 20 2010 at 15:59
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Why do Italians and French like prog rock and the Germans don't? No seriously, is there a prog scene in Germany? I do not know of it!  I have never heard a prog song in Germany, on Radio, TV or somewhere (and I do not mean the hit singles like 'Follow you, follow me' and the likes). Also Can or the so-called Krautrock I have never heard. But: When I was in Italy on holiday I heard Marillion's 'The Web' on the radio! I could not believe my ears. I blame it indeed to the RPI scene. And in the Symphonic prog section of this site I discovered already so many French artists, and not a single German artist (until the letter E.) |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 04:29
Haven't read the thread, but thiscomment is quite dumb (so is the thread idea)
  There are at least 5 french-speaking fanzines (ProResiste, Big Bang, Traverses, Acid Cragon... and more that don't spring up to me as I write) about progressive music, dozens of of bands, a few labels dedicated to it (Musea and Soleil Zeuhl directly pop to mind)...
what could be lacking are clubs or concert places to organize prog shows, and certainly these places uniting to form a partnership.
So they're just as much progheads as anyone else.... and yes , they've got the wine & cheese to go along with it.... so I guess that gives them an edge and they might be even better progheads because of it  ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 09:10
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Since I'm French (and since I'm sick of trolling in this thread like I did these last days), I would have to share a few observations. First, a lot of people seem to make a confusion between the number of progressive acts in France and the interest of the French audience in anything related to "progressive rock" (I also doubt that a lot of people ever heard about the very words of "progressive rock). There are a lot of death-metal bands in Sweden, but the musicians themselves explain that it doesn't appeal to a lot of people in Sweden, at least in the first years: I would try to find back an interview of a musician saying that, most of the times, the death-metal bands play in front of other death-metal musicians... So, just because Ange, Magma, Etron Fou Leloublan or Heldon have made long careers, just because we could find 1,476 French bands in the PA database would NEVER mean that French listeners really care about their bands. In 1983, when Etron Fou Leloublan made a 36-dates European tour, they only played 3 concerts in France... Even Magma complained about not being programmed in the main Jazz festivals... Secondly, in France, the rock critics are really, really, REALLY negative about everything related to progressive. Maybe Rock'n'Folk featured Magma on their cover last year, maybe they published interviews of VdGG or King Crimson, but they are also fond of defecating on Yes or Genesis and tend to ignore young experimental bands (and claiming having found the new hope of Rock'n'Roll each trimester...) In fact, except for metal magazines or a small, small, very small press (the 5 fanzines mentionned by Sean Trance), the French musical press doesn't give two dead rats about prog-rock. Sometimes, the 3 Jazz magazines (each year, it melts like ice under the sun - quite frightening) can expand their boundaries to prog-rock, jazz-rock, R.I.O. - but who reads jazz magazines in France? Thirdly, a lot of young bands described as "progressive" can't tour or live of their music. It's not like Yolk, Camembert, Nebelnest or Setna sell thousands of records and make French tours lasting 2 or 3 months. We have some festivals dedicated to progressive musics (Prog'Sud, RIO in Carmaux, Crescendo...) but we have more festivals dedicated to metal. I don't know about things go in Italy, but all these observations make me think that, in France, just a few people are interested in "progressive music". |
Posted By: Anaon
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 09:13
As in most of the countries I would say ------------- My music: http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://spleenarcana.bandcamp.com/ My blog: http://groovesandmemories.com/" rel="nofollow - http://groovesandmemories.com/ |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 21 2010 at 09:56
Yes, of course... But, I mean, damned, France had produced a lot of fine acts! There also has been some collectives (Dupon et ses fantômes, FLIP, and Art Zoyd and EFL were part of the RIO collective) and various dedicated labels (Musea, ATEM, and a few others) It seems to me that the most important RPI bands have lasted longer than their French counterparts and have found more commercial success (but I can be wrong) |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 22 2010 at 04:25
Well It's true that there is a certain intelligentsia among rock critics in France to take the Philippe Manoeuvre stance and sh*tting on prog, especiallyafter this very Manoeuvre guy over-turned his jacket and "discovered" punk.... after all France is a hotbed for punk (the first punk festival ever was held in Mont De Marsan in August 76) and the general attitude.
Regarding groups having a "real market" in their homeands, very few countries can indeed pretend to that, and usually these are very chauvinistic about their music.... Thinking mostly about England, where the huge majority of fans will simply not try anything not UK, (with the possibleexception of Morth american groups), but also Italy, (although it's quite clear that they do listen to other stuff and inspire themselves on it)
As I said, whatever few people interested in prog get involved in whatever scene and promotion issues possible.... but what lacks is the drive to create a real concert circuit that could allow the groups to travel and expose their music.
I mean the Carmeaux, Le Triton and Sarlat fests are simply not enough..... there is a need for contacts and spots in Nantes/Rennes, Bordeaux, Toulouse, Montpellier, Marseille/Nice, Grenoble, Lyon, Clermont, Tours, Rouen, Lilles, Metz and Strasbourg
This being said, ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |