Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation - Camel: the most underrated prog band at 70`s?

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Camel: the most underrated prog band at 70`s?

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Topic: Camel: the most underrated prog band at 70`s?

Posted By: sohraab
Subject: Camel: the most underrated prog band at 70`s?
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 03:48

from the beautifully floating flute tones in `Spirit Of The Water` to harsh symphonic moments of `Pressure`,
from the simple structured but catchy `Sanctuary` to massive epic `A Nod And A Wink`, Camel, in my opinion, has been a significant point in prog-rock history. Andrew Latimer has always carried the weight of his own created unique sound on his shoulders alone, trying to provide a stable condition for the band, unfortunately unsuccessful most of the times.
Amazingly he composes such a brilliant work `A Nod and a Wink` when everyone think that Camel sound is ended after Rajaz. a beautifully composed and well structured album which contains almost all of the possible moods and elements of Progressive music in a quite experienced way, of course expected by Latimer.
of course most of us know camel today and appreciate it, but how come Camel was so obscured and underrated compared at 70`s compared to other UK prog rockers, this is the question that i always have in mind. whether my statement is right or wrong, Hope to be a good discussion about the band. Smile

Replies:

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 03:56

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 03:58

Snow Dog wrote:

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

yes, but my discussion is about the situation of the band at 70`s prog society of UK and world in general. wondering how they WERE so underrated. maybe i should change the post text a little!

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 04:05

I consider the Snow Goose a masterpiece and Moonmadness as excellent but the remainder just smacks my sensibilities as rather pedestrian and conservative music played by consummate professionals
(and that is NEVER enough to keep my eyes moist)

They are certainly not underrated - just not as popular as Yes, ELP, Crimson, Genesis, Tull and the rest.

I saw them live in the late 70's at Glasgow University (I wasn't a student, just a guest) and thought them highly competent but unremittingly tedious.

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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 04:18

Not at all. They're massively rated around here.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 04:20

ExittheLemming wrote:

I consider the Snow Goose a masterpiece and Moonmadness as excellent but the remainder just smacks my sensibilities as rather pedestrian and conservative music played by consummate professionals
(and that is NEVER enough to keep my eyes moist)

They are certainly not underrated - just not as popular as Yes, ELP, Crimson, Genesis, Tull and the rest.

I saw them live in the late 70's at Glasgow University (I wasn't a student, just a guest) and thought them highly competent but unremittingly tedious.

for me it`s very good because u have been present that time and maybe u can understand the reason of their unpopularity and also let me know it in some ways. as i said this has been always a quite strange thing in my mind...

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 06:57

FIRST: My English is not good and many of PA fans know it !!! I dont agree with you Sohraab. I love CAMEL (like many of Iranian proggers) but they are not one of my idols. Camel start very good with their 4 first albums (Camel,Mirage,The Snow Goose and MoonMadness). In my opinion "The Snow Goose" is a masterpiece and one big step in Symphonic-Rock genre. After TSG Camel released MoonMadness. I dont like all of MoonMadness songs and I think its lower than The Snow Goose. I think MoonMadness is the end of Camel's golden era. Raindances is a smooth jazz album and I think Camel's new members didnt fix in line up well. I allways like Mel Collins but he wasnt good in Camel. "Breathless" and "I can see your house from here" was 2 pretty bad albums (IMO) specially "Breathless". I cant undrestand why they released these 2. Nude is very ordinary album and "Single Factor" is one of the worst Prog album I have evere listened. I dont want write Camel history. They have one masterpiece, 2 or 3 perfect album and some good albums. Rajaz and "A nod and a Wink" are good but not masterpiece.

Maybe some of us have nostalgic feelings but we must to be reasonable. We must analysis bands with musical criteria like composing,arrangment,orchestration,...... Sorry for my poor English.

Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 07:11

ExittheLemming wrote:

I saw them live in the late 70's at Glasgow University (I wasn't a student, just a guest) and thought them highly competent but unremittingly tedious.

First time I saw them was in the City halls in Glasgow when they were supporting Stackridge. At that time they were still playing "Homage to the god of light" from Barden's solo album "The answer" (99p in Woolworths at the time!

). One of the best support gigs I've ever seen.

Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 07:32

Easy Livin wrote:

ExittheLemming wrote:

I saw them live in the late 70's at Glasgow University (I wasn't a student, just a guest) and thought them highly competent but unremittingly tedious.

). One of the best support gigs I've ever seen.

That sounds like it would have been a really good show (Maybe you saw Camel closer to their 'peak'? ) and I have always loved Stackridge to bits ever since they became something of a staple on 'The Old Grey Whistle Test' in the early 70's.

Old men like me forget Embarrassed

I just looked it up and the Camel concert I saw was actually at the Glasgow City Halls in 1978 with Soft Machine and Michael Chapman as support. Don't time fly?

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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 07:43

"The Snow Goose" used to be a very popular album in the circle of my brother's friends; several passages were given special names by tem, like "Fa Frischemelodie" ("Fa Freshness Melody"), "Fagottgefurze" ("Bassoon Farting"), "Decker Syndrom" ("Decker Syndrome"), "Tahiti Reuemelodie" ("Tahiti Remorse Melody") and so on. There were about a dozen of these names, often not refering to whole tracks but to special passages in them. Ah, the silly ideas of youth!

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:01

If you use the old football analogy in the UK, Camel were second division in terms of sales as compared to the big bands of the First Division.

However, in terms of appreciation, certainly on sites such as this, they are most definitely up there.

I've recently converted my old Camel vinyl to digital, and am able once again to appreciate just what a marvellous band they were.

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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:16

O666 wrote:

FIRST: My English is not good and many of PA fans know it !!! I dont agree with you Sohraab. I love CAMEL (like many of Iranian proggers) but they are not one of my idols. Camel start very good with their 4 first albums (Camel,Mirage,The Snow Goose and MoonMadness). In my opinion "The Snow Goose" is a masterpiece and one big step in Symphonic-Rock genre. After TSG Camel released MoonMadness. I dont like all of MoonMadness songs and I think its lower than The Snow Goose. I think MoonMadness is the end of Camel's golden era. Raindances is a smooth jazz album and I think Camel's new members didnt fix in line up well. I allways like Mel Collins but he wasnt good in Camel. "Breathless" and "I can see your house from here" was 2 pretty bad albums (IMO) specially "Breathless". I cant undrestand why they released these 2. Nude is very ordinary album and "Single Factor" is one of the worst Prog album I have evere listened. I dont want write Camel history. They have one masterpiece, 2 or 3 perfect album and some good albums. Rajaz and "A nod and a Wink" are good but not masterpiece.

Maybe some of us have nostalgic feelings but we must to be reasonable. We must analysis bands with musical criteria like composing,arrangment,orchestration,...... Sorry for my poor English.

hi my friend! my english is not as good as u say! Wink

i am partially agree with your review on camel album. with one exception. i think rajaz and a nod and a wink could be considered as masterpieces by the standards of PA. anyway this is not my case. the question in my mind is that why they were underrated at 70`s? what could has been the reason for them to be less considered by public compared to PF, Yes, Gensis and others? did Camle have anything missed in their music at 70`s?

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:19

lazland wrote:

If you use the old football analogy in the UK, Camel were second division in terms of sales as compared to the big bands of the First Division.

However, in terms of appreciation, certainly on sites such as this, they are most definitely up there.

I've recently converted my old Camel vinyl to digital, and am able once again to appreciate just what a marvellous band they were.

yes absolutely they are well respected in PA. but i mention again, my question is that why should they have been in second division? did they miss technical elements? or maybe their mood was not well accepted by public comparing other prog rockers? what has been the reason?

Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:20

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:21

sohraab wrote:

They came along later. They never had the showmanship or excitement of other bands imo.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:30

BaldFriede wrote:

"The Snow Goose" used to be a very popular album in the circle of my brother's friends; several passages were given special names by tem, like "Fa Frischemelodie" ("Fa Freshness Melody"), "Fagottgefurze" ("Bassoon Farting"), "Decker Syndrom" ("Decker Syndrome"), "Tahiti Reuemelodie" ("Tahiti Remorse Melody") and so on. There were about a dozen of these names, often not refering to whole tracks but to special passages in them. Ah, the silly ideas of youth!

first of all what a great photo! i really liked it!
second, Snow Goose is many times considered as a work which is the exact cup of tea for women. i don`t know the exact reason. maybe because of some soft major-tuned melodies. is it like this for u? i mean do you find Snow Goose a more female-oriented album? maybe u can give ur opinion as a Lady! thx.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:33

Paravion wrote:

seems that this time u like my post more than PF one! anyway nice artwork from camel. thx.

Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:50

sohraab wrote:

Paravion wrote:

seems that this time u like my post more than PF one! anyway nice artwork from camel. thx.

Sorry to break it to you - but this is not camel art work. It's the cover of a 7" issued by swiss blues/psychedelia/kraut band Krokodil in 1969. It's a homage to the camel cigarette. Great song.

It's very confusing. Both bands have animal names and Krokodil even issued a record with (almost) the same cover art as Mirage. When I mean Krokodil i sometimes utter Camel and vice virsa.

I hate Camel. I find them rather boring and without edge. They don't suit my temper I guess. Krokodil - on the contrary - ranks as one of my all time favourite bands. Their album "An Invisible World Revealed" is a must. Sorry about the digression.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 08:54

Paravion wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Paravion wrote:

seems that this time u like my post more than PF one! anyway nice artwork from camel. thx.

it`s OK no problem! i`ll check `Krokodil` to know how it makes u don`t like camel. sounds interesting. thx.

Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:01

i`ll check `Krokodil` to know how it makes u don`t like camel.

That's not the way it works Confused

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:02

sohraab wrote:

hi my friend! my english is not as good as u say! Wink

I really undrestand you bro. Albums like "Breathless" made Camel underrate! Each bands judge with all works that they did, Raindances released in 1977 and disappointed Camels huge fans (IMO). I love Camel's melodies style and I think they wrote great melodies. You can see these kind of melodies in Raindaces but very weak. Songs like "Remote Romance" hit Camels name. This is my opinion.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:05

Paravion wrote:

i`ll check `Krokodil` to know how it makes u don`t like camel.

That's not the way it works Confused

so what is the way? i want to know what is ur taste that makes Camel a `boring` thing. i`m here to know such kind of things and broaden my knowledge. not for making arguments and attack the others such as some people...

Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:10

No need to start bandying terms like "sexist" around, it adds nothing to the debate and can cause extreme offence to some.

I first saw Camel around 77 or 78 at Salford Uni and they were very accomplished. They weren't the most exciting live band rather they preferred their superlative music do the talking.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:11

O666 wrote:

sohraab wrote:

hi my friend! my english is not as good as u say! Wink

oh thanks god! at last someone offered his OPINION without any MISBEHAVE. u have my deep respect bro. and i think ur point is reasonable. maybe Latimer had lost his way after Moonmadness... but i don`t know if u agree with me that he had a great restart with Rajaz. and i also heard that he`s working on a new album as well...

Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 09:13

Textbook wrote:

Not at all. They're massively rated around here.

+1

Also, Micky would love this thread Big smile

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 10:04

Paravion wrote:

i`ll check `Krokodil` to know how it makes u don`t like camel.

That's not the way it works Confused

anyway i`m listening to `An invisible world revealed`. it`s great! thx for introduction! Big smile

satisfies the folk/psych side of my moon! Wink

Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 10:58

I'm absolutely agree that Camel were too underrated in 70s and I think it happened because :

- they were just creating and performing music without other " activities" like organizing Great Shows (Pink Floyd), theatrical performance of their songs (GENESIS), demonstration of the technical abilities (YES,ELP) etc . At that time outstanding quality of the Music wasn't enough ...

+IMO almost for the same reasons VdGG (my favourite band) weren't so famous either...

+IMO Harbour of tears, RAYAZ, A nod and a Wink are real Masterpieces! My favourite Camels' albums(+Snow Goose)

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Would you catch the final words of mine?
Would you catch my words???

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 11:16

Varon wrote:

Good poll. I'm absolutely agree that Camel were too underrated in 70s and I think it happened because :

+IMO almost for the same reasons VdGG (my favourite band) weren't so famous either...

+IMO Harbour of tears, RAYAZ, A nod and a Wink are real Masterpieces! My favourite Camels' albums(+Snow Goose)

quite reasonable without doubt. nice and almost perfect answer indeed. but do you think this underrating has had nothing to do with their musical form? considering that the camel sound has been something different with other bands; soft and more simple but catchy in it`s own way...
anyway nice post,thx

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 11:20

Tony R wrote:

No need to start bandying terms like "sexist" around, it adds nothing to the debate and can cause extreme offence to some.

I first saw Camel around 77 or 78 at Salford Uni and they were very accomplished. They weren't the most exciting live band rather they preferred their superlative music do the talking.

Is this guy protected or something......how does not calling a sexist a sexist help?

I can't believe I am having posts hidden. What has happened around here? This guy appears on the scene and puts peoples backs up and I'm the bad guy?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 11:33

i always consider Andy Latimer as an emotional artist, looking at his face in `coming of age` DVD it`s quite obvious that he`s playing and singing with whole of his soul... no wonder if he had been a silent, non show-off guy... i would really like to let 20 years of my age go but just live 5 years in 70`s London... what a pity...

Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 12:04

sohraab wrote:

Varon wrote:

Good poll. I'm absolutely agree that Camel were too underrated in 70s and I think it happened because :

+IMO almost for the same reasons VdGG (my favourite band) weren't so famous either...

+IMO Harbour of tears, RAYAZ, A nod and a Wink are real Masterpieces! My favourite Camels' albums(+Snow Goose)

You are right of course but I thought it had been already mentioned . + it goes without saying IMO . I tried to make up some ideas that I've never heard before .

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Would you catch the final words of mine?
Would you catch my words???

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 12:06

Varon wrote:

Good poll.

Where?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 12:10

Varon wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Varon wrote:

Good poll. I'm absolutely agree that Camel were too underrated in 70s and I think it happened because :

+IMO almost for the same reasons VdGG (my favourite band) weren't so famous either...

+IMO Harbour of tears, RAYAZ, A nod and a Wink are real Masterpieces! My favourite Camels' albums(+Snow Goose)

You are right of course but I thought it had been already mentioned . + it goes without saying IMO . I tried to make up some ideas that I've never heard before .

u r right. i`m a little bit sleepy! here in Malaysia it`s 1:09 am! but for last question. i heard something like one year ago that Latimer is working on a new album. is it right? any news?

Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 12:25

I heard he was in David Minasian's project "Random Acts of Beauty” - Latimer composed smth for it . But I know nothing about Latimer's (Camels) new album .

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Would you catch the final words of mine?
Would you catch my words???

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 12:27

Varon wrote:

I heard he was in David Minasian's project "Random Acts of Beauty” - Latimer composed smth for it . But I know nothing about Latimer's (Camels) new album .

thx 4 information. c u around. progy night.

Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 13:52

Yeah, Snow Goose and Moon Madness are some of the best music I've ever heard. Not far behind is Mirage and their self titled, Nude isn't bad either.

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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.

Posted By: esky
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 16:59

They were great. It's just that they (Latimer) got a little too ambitious towards the end. I lost track with their last several albums because it wasn't too terribly interesting as the first four to five offerings were.

Posted By: Nov
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 17:28

Maybe some of us have nostalgic feelings but we must to be reasonable. We must analysis bands with musical criteria like composing,arrangment,orchestration,...... Sorry for my poor English.

Hey 0666,

You started a thread over at Progressive Ears that has gone now to 3 pages with no reply back from you.

Some of the guys there are wondering if it was a wind up so perhaps you ought to pop over there and prove that you're the real deal Wink

Interesting points about Camel. I disagree where you say that "Nude" is an ordinary album coz I'd put it in my top 3.

Cheers!

Nov

Posted By: Paravion
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 18:05

sohraab wrote:

Paravion wrote:

i`ll check `Krokodil` to know how it makes u don`t like camel.

That's not the way it works Confused

I don't know. Or perhaps I do - but I consciously abandon a notion about having actual knowledge of my own taste. I would hate to spell out the reasons as to why I dislike Camel - as I almost certain they won't offer anyone a significant amount of enlightenment. But Krokodil has nothing to do with it - I'm almost certain about that. To me - It's sufficient just to go with my intuitions and not caring about the whys.

anyway i`m listening to `An invisible world revealed`. it`s great! thx for introduction! Big smile

satisfies the folk/psych side of my moon! Wink

This is great! You're welcome..Perhaps you can tell me why I don't like camel?

Posted By: Schizoid-Man
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 19:14

I partial to a bit of camel. In particular the song 'Mystic Queen'

Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 22:57

Given how much everyone seems to love them on this site I don't think they're the most underrated by a long shot. The most underrated prog band is probably one none of us have heard of. Camel has quite a bit of cultural clout.

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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.

Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: October 11 2010 at 22:59

The most underrated prog band is Satan Alfa Beel Atem

Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 01:42

A band that passed me by in the seventies. I have the remasters of Snow Goose and Moon Madness because they cost only a fiver each as well as Gods Of Light 73-75 but can't say I've been blown away. Quite nice inoffensive symph prog.Hardly earth shattering.

Posted By: cesar polo
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 02:36

Of course, Camel are the most underrated prog band of all time. They are at least as great as Yes, ELP, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd or King Crimson. So, I think that when people talk about the "big prog bands" it should be G7(including Camel), not G6(the above mentioned).

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 02:38

cesar polo wrote:

Of course, Camel are the most underrated prog band of all time. They are at least as great as Yes, ELP, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd or King Crimson. So, I think that when people talk about the "big prog bands" it should be G7(including Camel), not G6(the above mentioned).

INDEED!

Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 03:03

I don't think Camel is underrated here, but I have to admit: listening for about 20 years to their music I'm surprised how many times you can listen to their music, at least their classic albums, without getting bored.

For me they have become my favorite band after Yes, and I never expected that. I used to think they were second division, sub top, but not anymore.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 03:11

Moogtron III wrote:

I don't think Camel is underrated here, but I have to admit: listening for about 20 years to their music I'm surprised how many times you can listen to their music, at least their classic albums, without getting bored.

For me they have become my favorite band after Yes, and I never expected that. I used to think they were second division, sub top, but not anymore.

think i should change the topic header again!
Camel is NOT underrated NOW. but it WAS at 70`S.
i want to know what has been the reason.
some people passed nice ideas.

Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 03:29

sohraab wrote:

For me they have become my favorite band after Yes, and I never expected that. I used to think they were second division, sub top, but not anymore.

think i should change the topic header again!
Camel is NOT underrated NOW. but it WAS at 70`S.
i want to know what has been the reason.
some people passed nice ideas.

I did read that, but I forgot

Yes, it was a bit off topic, sorry

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 03:31

Moogtron III wrote:

sohraab wrote:

For me they have become my favorite band after Yes, and I never expected that. I used to think they were second division, sub top, but not anymore.

think i should change the topic header again!
Camel is NOT underrated NOW. but it WAS at 70`S.
i want to know what has been the reason.
some people passed nice ideas.

I did read that, but I forgot

Yes, it was a bit off topic, sorry

it`s OK man!
no need to be sorry... this is a friendly discussion forum for me...

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 08:15

Triceratopsoil wrote:

The most underrated prog band is Satan Alfa Beel Atem

HUH???? what a strange name... i`ll go for them by sure...

Posted By: Drummerboy
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 10:16

Snow Dog wrote:

sohraab wrote:

They came along later. They never had the showmanship or excitement of other bands imo.

Not only that, but they did not get much airplay the way the first team of Tull/ELP/Yes did in the day. Maybe because almost all of their work requires a certain effort by the listener, while the mega-bands had very approachable singles that were big radio hits. However the effort was greatly rewarded; I agree they are the great under-rated band of the 70's and also agree that a lot of their later work does not come close to the classic period of their first decade. While they may have lacked showmanship in the sense of an Ian Anderson, their live music was absolutely incindiary; very intense, similar to KC in the mid-70s. Amazingly I saw them in their 1997 incarnation at a no-name club in Osaka, Japan, and they were still just incredibly powerful.

Posted By: Norman Kiddie
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 11:40

I saw Camel supported by Eloy in Germany back in 1978. They played most of Rain Dances and the more popular tracks from Moon Madness and their usual Snow Goose medley. Firstly they wiped the floor

with Eloy who were a very good band. In those days every prog fan had Camel albums having said that it was evident that the likes of Genesis, Yes and Floyd most definately sold more albums.

However I would like to point out the fact that the albums you have mentioned are undoubtedly great albums, I love them too especially Rajaz but we are talking a different Camel. Todays sales are to a very different audience than in the seventies though real prog fans would have bought them too.

Let´s just hope Andy Latimer continues to produce quality music and gets his just deserts for a job well done.

Norman

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 11:48

Norman Kiddie wrote:

I saw Camel supported by Eloy in Germany back in 1978. They played most of Rain Dances and the more popular tracks from Moon Madness and their usual Snow Goose medley. Firstly they wiped the floor

with Eloy who were a very good band. In those days every prog fan had Camel albums having said that it was evident that the likes of Genesis, Yes and Floyd most definately sold more albums.

Let´s just hope Andy Latimer continues to produce quality music and gets his just deserts for a job well done.

Norman

i`m recently getting addicted to `a nod and a wink`. i just think it satisfies almost all possible technical standards of a good progressive, also including very broad but accurately balanced moods. just wonders me that how creative Latimer was when he was writing this music. well appreciated by my side... hope he keep on.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 12:50

sohraab wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

yes, but my discussion is about the situation of the band at 70`s prog society of UK and world in general. wondering how they WERE so underrated. maybe i should change the post text a little!

They were not underrated in the 1970s - they never had "hit" albums like Floyd, Yes or Genesis, but for an essentially instrumental band they sold very well and made the UK top 40 charts 5 times:

Position	Artist	Title	Date	Details
22	Camel	The Snow Goose	May 1975
15	Camel	Moon Madness	Apr 1976
20	Camel	Rain Dances	Sep 1977
26	Camel	Breathless	Oct 1978
34	Camel	Nude	Jan 1981

Genesis's Trespass and Nursery Cryme didn't chart at all when they were originally released. Van Der Graaf Generator never had an album in the top 40, nor did Gong, Gentle Giant or Caravan.

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 13:04

Thats very interesting Dean. I thought they had a few hits because they were in the press a lot and thats how I came to hear of them. I didn't by Snow goose although I knew of it, but I bought Moonmadness.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 13:26

Underrated or not, i think it's the kind of relaxing symphonic rock genre that push some people off. For me, it's great music atmosphere that i enjoy listening sometimes not too long, because he doesn't move enough for my personal taste... And i always had the impression that their masterpiece album were overrated in the prog community and not underrated...

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 13:36

Snow Dog wrote:

Thats very interesting Dean. I thought they had a few hits because they were in the press a lot and thats how I came to hear of them. I didn't by Snow goose although I knew of it, but I bought Moonmadness.

I can remember hearing their first album while I was at school and I bought Mirage when it was released. I didn't care for Snow Goose very much (and still don't) but several of my friends liked it and I recall it was fairly popular with non-Prog fans at the time as chill music for student parties. I didn't get to see them live until the Rain Dances tour and I have to admit I wasn't that impressed.

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 13:42

^ Never liked Snow Goose much myself.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 13:48

I come at this from a different angle. None of the big 6 or so are really favourites for me. The fact that Camel is so firmly in the second division makes me kinda happy because it's the only favourite of mine that is even that highly acclaimed.

For a prog band, once you strip away the huge ones, and looking at UK success, they were actually pretty successful commercially. All of their albums from Mirage (1974) to Stationary Traveller (1984) made the UK charts. Not many prog groups had such a run.

If pressed to explain their lack of 1st division success, I might agree with the poster who mentioned that they were mostly instrumental, and add that their vocals were not the stuff of higher echelons, although I think they suited the group just fine. Their tendency to change with every album may have prevented them from building a really large audience. For instance, how does Raindances solidify the Snow Goose/Moonmadness fan base?

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 12 2010 at 20:33

kenethlevine wrote:

I come at this from a different angle. None of the big 6 or so are really favourites for me. The fact that Camel is so firmly in the second division makes me kinda happy because it's the only favourite of mine that is even that highly acclaimed.

LIKE...

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 07:40

Nov wrote:

Maybe some of us have nostalgic feelings but we must to be reasonable. We must analysis bands with musical criteria like composing,arrangment,orchestration,...... Sorry for my poor English.

Interesting points about Camel. I disagree where you say that "Nude" is an ordinary album coz I'd put it in my top 3.

Cheers!

Nov

Thanks!!!

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 10:55

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

yes, but my discussion is about the situation of the band at 70`s prog society of UK and world in general. wondering how they WERE so underrated. maybe i should change the post text a little!

They were not underrated in the 1970s - they never had "hit" albums like Floyd, Yes or Genesis, but for an essentially instrumental band they sold very well and made the UK top 40 charts 5 times:

Position	Artist	Title	Date	Details
22	Camel	The Snow Goose	May 1975
15	Camel	Moon Madness	Apr 1976
20	Camel	Rain Dances	Sep 1977
26	Camel	Breathless	Oct 1978
34	Camel	Nude	Jan 1981

Genesis's Trespass and Nursery Cryme didn't chart at all when they were originally released. Van Der Graaf Generator never had an album in the top 40, nor did Gong, Gentle Giant or Caravan.

now i really start to think that prog music of 70`s was written to be discovered 30 years later... people of that period were normally listening to Abba, Bonny M or stuff like this. although i respect such pop pioneers but it`s really sad if at that golden age people have not been used to prog music as much as they should be. after all i don know exactly cuz at that time i was not still born... Cry

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:08

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

yes, but my discussion is about the situation of the band at 70`s prog society of UK and world in general. wondering how they WERE so underrated. maybe i should change the post text a little!

They were not underrated in the 1970s - they never had "hit" albums like Floyd, Yes or Genesis, but for an essentially instrumental band they sold very well and made the UK top 40 charts 5 times:

Position	Artist	Title	Date	Details
22	Camel	The Snow Goose	May 1975
15	Camel	Moon Madness	Apr 1976
20	Camel	Rain Dances	Sep 1977
26	Camel	Breathless	Oct 1978
34	Camel	Nude	Jan 1981

Genesis's Trespass and Nursery Cryme didn't chart at all when they were originally released. Van Der Graaf Generator never had an album in the top 40, nor did Gong, Gentle Giant or Caravan.

Not all teenagers today listen to Beyonce and Lady Gagagah - many listen to Florence & the Machine, Bring Me The Horizon, Stone Sour and The XX - so it was in the 70s - not all teenagers listened to Abba and Bonny M - many (most) of us listened to Prog and Rock.

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What?

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 11:19

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

I think you ARE wrong...they are a very popular band. maybe in the seventies they weren't Premier league but they sure are popular now.

yes, but my discussion is about the situation of the band at 70`s prog society of UK and world in general. wondering how they WERE so underrated. maybe i should change the post text a little!

They were not underrated in the 1970s - they never had "hit" albums like Floyd, Yes or Genesis, but for an essentially instrumental band they sold very well and made the UK top 40 charts 5 times:

Position	Artist	Title	Date	Details
22	Camel	The Snow Goose	May 1975
15	Camel	Moon Madness	Apr 1976
20	Camel	Rain Dances	Sep 1977
26	Camel	Breathless	Oct 1978
34	Camel	Nude	Jan 1981

Genesis's Trespass and Nursery Cryme didn't chart at all when they were originally released. Van Der Graaf Generator never had an album in the top 40, nor did Gong, Gentle Giant or Caravan.

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!
i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:26

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!
i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I think you are wrong - the pop music of then was just as bad and just as good as the pop music of today and I don't think a great deal has changed on that score. I think nostalgia, and especially 1970s nostalgia is viewed through rose-tinted glasses - we only remember the really good stuff and the really bad stuff - it's the mediocre that describes an era and much of the 1970s was awfully, forgettably average.

I was there, it wasn't that great.

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:28

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

yep...and Boney M sucked big time!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:42

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

i know that from ur point of view it was not that great since u are from 70`s! u r grown up with good rock music and so it`s pretty normal that u have not liked the pop music of that time... but what about our age? we miss many things in our life in this boring technological era... specially good music. what can we be proud of compared to PF, Eloy, JT and other giants of your age? DT, Por. Tree? opeth?! i love them all but to be honest they are nothing comparing to 70`s bands.
so it`s the only feeling that all of the people of my age have (i think). missing good music... we just born 30 years late. and i don think you can feel the way that we feel. they were almost simply accessible for you but for us? everyday i`m waiting for the death report of another monster... after Rick Wright i became sick as hell... i`v nightmare: death of Dave Gilmour before i see him on stage... its only the matter of difference between ages... i can not explain it here. its to broad...

Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:07

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

I was there too, I think there is some good music today, but I don't think I hear the kind of developed pop music today that you might have heard in the early to mid 70s. I'm thinking of artists like Simon & Garfunkel, Paul Simon, EW&F, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Dionne Warwick or Michael Jackson. I don't hear much pop music today that has that same kind of artistic sophistication.

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:22

Easy Money wrote:

I was there too, I think there is some good music today, but I don't think I hear the kind of developed pop music today that you might have heard in the early to mid 70s. I'm thinking of artists like Simon & Garfunkel, Paul Simon, EW&F, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Dionne Warwick or Michael Jackson. I don't hear much pop music today that has that same kind of artistic sophistication.

I WASN'T there, but this is my line of argument too. There doesn't seem to be any Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson like figure today in the pop scene, no artist who's both THAT popular and THAT sophisticated. So, some things must have changed from then to now.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:26

sohraab wrote:

i know that from ur point of view it was not that great since u are from 70`s! u r grown up with good rock music and so it`s pretty normal that u have not liked the pop music of that time... but what about our age? we miss many things in our life in this boring technological era... specially good music. what can we be proud of compared to PF, Eloy, JT and other giants of your age? DT, Por. Tree? opeth?! i love them all but to be honest they are nothing comparing to 70`s bands.

Pah! I've been listening to "new" music every week for the past 50+ years and at no point have I every thought "Oh dear, there just isn't any great music being made today" even through the 80s and 90s there was some superb music being made that was every bit as great as the stuff we heard in the 70s. Opeth are a bloody fantastic band and have been one of my favourite bands since the late 90s - they are easily "as good" as any of the 70s icons you venerate. Sure last Friday I was at an Enid gig with 100s of other grey-hairs like myself reliving 1977 like it was yesterday while trying to squeeze into 35 year-old T-Shirts like we were still 19 again, but another week and I could be at a Coheed & Cambria gig or a Porcupine Tree gig - it makes no difference to me when it was made as long as it's great music, which it is. My favourite albums at the moment are Biffy Clyro's Only Revolutions and Pendulum's Immersions - the best album I've heard this year is The Way Of The ORwarriOR by Orphaned Land. Great music is still being made. Certainly they will never topple Meddle and Dark Side Of The Moon from the top of my personal list of great albums, but that's because they were the soundtrack to my life, just as Peter Gabriel, VdGG, Ultravox, Bauhaus, Fields Of The Nephilim and Muse are.

sohraab wrote:

so it`s the only feeling that all of the people of my age have (i think). missing good music... we just born 30 years late. and i don think you can feel the way that we feel.

Pah! (again) - You have the advantage of not having to listen to all the also-rans and nearly made-its and all the dire support bands that no one has heard of since that we listened to in the 1970s - you can cherry-pick the good stuff. The music isn't lost - you canstill hear it.

sohraab wrote:

they were almost simply accessible for you but for us? everyday i`m waiting for the death report of another monster... after Rick Wright i became sick as hell... i`v nightmare: death of Dave Gilmour before i see him on stage... its only the matter of difference between ages... i can not explain it here. its to broad...

Pah! Sure you can't see those gigs, but neither can I - even though I have been to hundreds of gigs, there are still loads of people from that era I've never seen play live like Yes and Jethro Tull. But time is against me too - I may not live long enough to see some of today's rising stars - at least you have that advantage over me.

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What?

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:28

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

i tell u John. i think even the definition and classification of music genres changes by the time. Simon & Garfunkel and Paul Simon are not considered pop for our age. cuz the things that we`v grown up as the pop music are a way more simple than the pop of your age. this, changes the definition and characterization of pop music for us. so that even pop music of your age is kinda different for us... and the sad thing is that, it becomes worse day by day... we r almost losing every thing... am i too pessimist?! Wink

but i really feel like it...

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:34

sohraab wrote:

so that even pop music of your age is kinda different for us... and the sad thing is that, it becomes worse day by day... we r almost losing every thing...

Not really. Tori Amos is un-simple enough to have gotten into the Prog Archives, for instance. Wink

There is good music but, to address my own question above, audiences have become too scattered and fragmented. I would hate to make a strawman assumption, but I THINK audiences these days are very close minded, obsessively in pursuit of very narrow musical horizons and not much interested in musicality. That is probably what drives so much fragmentation in the music scene. If everybody is interested mainly in great melodies and chord progressions, the musician's job becomes simpler, right? They didn't call Stevie Wonder too complex or artsy in the 70s.

Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:35

sohraab wrote:

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

but i really feel like it...

I don't think its that bad Sohrab, pop may have declined some, but I think there is all kind of interesting development in electronica, metal, nu jazz. post rock, dub. I'm an old fart, but i am always interested in new music that is coming out. I don't feel any despair over today's music, but I do miss really sophisticated pop. These days you have Alicia keys and Jill Scott, but its not quite as good.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:49

Easy Money wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

but i really feel like it...

o nooooooooooooo!!! plz don`t tell me u go for Alicia keys! yes of course u r right. i listen to new electronics like Schiller as an example that i love, to Norah Jones as a nice pop-jazz or even some listenable Trance music... but something is missing believe me... i don know if u were listening to 40`s 50`s music when u were younger, feeling the same way...

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:51

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

so it`s the only feeling that all of the people of my age have (i think). missing good music... we just born 30 years late. and i don think you can feel the way that we feel.

i think i almost got u, of course with some disagreements...
but i`m sure i`m enough with Pahs!!! LOL

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:54

rogerthat wrote:

sohraab wrote:

so that even pop music of your age is kinda different for us... and the sad thing is that, it becomes worse day by day... we r almost losing every thing...

Not really. Tori Amos is un-simple enough to have gotten into the Prog Archives, for instance. Wink

most of them can not be more simple than they r now even if they try! really. Wink

Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 13:55

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

So was I, and there haven't been many truer posts made on the forum.

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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 14:49

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

I'll see your Paul Simon & Garfunkle Art, EN&T, Wonder, Gaye, Warwick and Jackson and raise you Christie, Tony Orlando and Dawn, New Seekers, Lieutenant Pigeon, Mungo Jerry, Paper Lace, Bay City Rollers, Arrows, The Tams, Middle Of The Road, Donny Osmond, Little Jimmy Ozymand(ias king of kings look upon my works ye Mighty and Despair), David Soul, David Cassidy, Peters & Lee, Rubettes, Brotherhood of Man, John Travolta & Olivia Neutron Bomb, Mouth & MacNeal, Hot Butter, First Choice, Carl Douglas, Shirley & Company, Lynsey DePaul, Ace, Pilot, Sailor, 5000 volts, 100 tons and a Feather, (and all the Jonathan King creations bar one), Rick Dee's and his cast of Idiots, Smokie, (Lord) David Dundas, Meri Wilson, The Floaters, Tuxedo Junction, Manhatten Transfer... (anyway, your list is all 60s artists

)

Anyway, I get your point, but I think there is modern talent that is putting sophistication and cleverness into pop music but is being overshadowed by the dire regurgitated urban-pop and <<insert you country here>>'s got (no)talent outpourings (which are no different to what we had to endure in the 70s) and avoiding the dross that was around in the 70s (all the artists I listed had big hits - think of all the other's that didn't - for every one-hit-wonder there were hundreds of dire no-hit-blunders that fell by the wayside).

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What?

Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 14:50

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

If you're talking about prog in general, then yeah, the quality has taken a big nosedive. But if you're saying there are no current bands at ALL that compete with '70s giants, let me point you towards...

Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating

There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.

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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:07

40footwolf wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating

There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.

i agree with u that there r some good stuff today. but compete with 70`s?! no way for me... and at this point, the list that u have provided here have some problems. first, it`s ur private taste but not a generally accepted good music. say, i really don`t find anything in radiohead. they r just a commercial band to me with a music below average standards... also with mastodon... second some of them are not prog at all and for me, just popy again radiohead... so i think it`s better to be careful when we use terms like PHENOMENAL. cuz such terms do not include solid concepts but relative ones.
and after all, i love Bjork! but she is not progy at all! Wink

Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:09

Dean wrote:

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

)

Mungo Jerry

There is a video from that time period where he is singing that awful song of his over and over (possibly about underage girls) with the instrumental section where he makes weird noises and the whole time he is glancing around like some scary pervert, yeah, they don't make them like Mungo Jerry anymore.

Posted By: sohraab
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:37

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

Easy Money wrote:

Dean wrote:

sohraab wrote:

and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...

I was there, it wasn't that great.

)

Mungo Jerry

Mungo Jerry?! even his name seems weird to me! but i`ll check this 70`s guy. should be amazing... Sleepy

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:55

sohraab wrote:

40footwolf wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating

There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.

Isn't everything we have all been saying relative to personal taste? Moreover isn't it all personal perceptions vs. personal recollections? Isn't the OP of this thread exactly that? "Camel: the most underrated prog band at in the 70's?" .. Well I think we've managed to prove convincingly that they were neither underrated nor were they the most underrated, so what we are left with is a discussion on relative perceptions of music now verse music then. Few of Mr Foot Wolf's list are prog bands - that's kind of the point - they are just good bands making good music - if you don't like it, that's fine - I'll wager there is a lot from the 70s that a) wasn't Prog and b) you won't like.

In the car this afternoon I was listing to this from 1976...

...and they are not a prog band.

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What?

Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: October 13 2010 at 16:49

sohraab wrote:

40footwolf wrote:

sohraab wrote:

Dean wrote:

I was there, it wasn't that great.

Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating

There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.

The POINT is that a lot of it isn't prog, since you said "'70s bands", not specifically "'70s prog bands". And as somebody else brought up, "phenomenal" is just as relative of a term as "underrated", and for a lot of these bands, their songwriting and musicianship chops are far above par. You can't just blankly say "no music today is as good as it was in the '70s", and then when examples of great bands are brought up turn around and say "That's a subjective opinion!" So is yours. You can't have it both ways.

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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.

Posted By: raggleman
Date Posted: October 18 2010 at 14:17

I have always considered Camel to be masters of a warm, lugubrious sort of prog that is strong on melody and not overly difficult on the ears.

Breathless and Mirage are probably my favourite albums but Nude is terrific and even the Single Factor has some lovely work on it.

I do believe the band to be underrated by the general music fan but not particularly by fans of prog. After an evening listening to VDGG or King Crimson then Moonmadness can act like a warm radox bath.

Luvv'em,

Posted By: pied piper
Date Posted: October 19 2010 at 15:56

Strange enough, that Camel is considered one of the more underrated band.

They' re done some very good stuff, oh yes, Snow Goose for first, but also the "caramel" period is full of good things.

But, IMHO, I tend to consider Camel one of the more overrated band...

The post-Nude works are not so worthy.

Posted By: O666
Date Posted: October 20 2010 at 06:53

pied piper wrote:

Strange enough, that Camel is considered one of the more underrated band.

They' re done some very good stuff, oh yes, Snow Goose for first, but also the "caramel" period is full of good things.

But, IMHO, I tend to consider Camel one of the more overrated band...

The post-Nude works are not so worthy.

How many "Post-Nude" albums you listened? Did you listen RAJAZ? If you listened to it ,Can you say why RAJAZ isn't "so worthy"?

Posted By: pied piper
Date Posted: October 20 2010 at 07:14

O666 wrote:

How many "Post-Nude" albums you listened? Did you listen RAJAZ? If you listened to it ,Can you say why RAJAZ isn't "so worthy"?

I listened to all of them, including Rajaz... sorry. I like just a small of tunes, in the post Nude age.

I can't be crucified for this.

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 20 2010 at 07:49

pied piper wrote:

O666 wrote:

How many "Post-Nude" albums you listened? Did you listen RAJAZ? If you listened to it ,Can you say why RAJAZ isn't "so worthy"?

I listened to all of them, including Rajaz... sorry. I like just a small of tunes, in the post Nude age.

I can't be crucified for this.

....

Depends...if the Camel party seize control maybe that will be their form of execution.

Anyway...I think there is some material on A Nod And A Wink better than some Pre Nude stuff.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: raggleman
Date Posted: October 20 2010 at 08:01

Come on guys !! This is all just a matter of personal opinion.

Camel are one of the few bands where it can be said that they never released any truly POOR material, it's just that some of their albums are better than others.

I suppose most people will prefer the glory years of Moonmadness, Snowgoose etc. but if you look & listen there are gems to be found in ALL their albums.

Andy Latimers guitar work is as good as ever after all.

Peace, Raggleman

Posted By: Mikeyg
Date Posted: October 20 2010 at 16:19

For Me Camel were at there best in the 70s, berfore Peter Bardens departure from the band and sad untimely demise I have lost count how many time I saw them live when I was a student from pubs in clubs, to the hammersmith Odeon and the Rainbow in London. They were a good solid band and I was there at Dingwells when Homage to the God of Light Revisited was recorderd, that was Bardens at his pure Jazz best, he could make that Hammond B3 sing. Listen to some of his solo work, especially 'Seen One Earth' Its worth a listen.

Posted By: raggleman
Date Posted: October 21 2010 at 04:10

Woah. Be very careful of Pete Bardens solo material.

The two albums I have (sorry, can't be bothered to dig them out) are fairly dreary, middle of the road, americanised crap.

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: October 21 2010 at 05:15

Watching the Camel DVD now

Its wonderful!

4.62 | 19 ratings | 6 reviews | 79% 5 stars

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9972#buymusic - from Progarchives.com partners

DVD/Video, released in 1998

Songs / Tracks Listing

1. Rehearsal (bonus footage)
2. Soundcheck (bonus footage)
3. Opening Titles / Lunar Sea
4. Hymn To Her
5. Rhayader
6. Rhayader Goes To Town
7. Drafted
8. Docks
9. Beached
10. Spirit of the Water
11. Ice
12. Fan interviews (bonus footage)
13. Mother Road
14. Needles
15. Rose Of Sharon
16. Irish Air
17. Harbours of tears
18. Cobh
19. Send Home The Slates
20. Under The Moon
21. Watching The Bobbins
22. Eyes Of Ireland
23. Running From Paradise
24. End Of The Day
25. Coming Of Age
26. The Hour Candle
27. Closing Credits / Irish Air

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Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: October 22 2010 at 18:26

The ups and downs albums I guess

Posted By: genesis_pig
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 18:09

I just heard few of their tracks (Air Born, Never let go, Breathless).. would like to get into the band a bit more..

What is the best album to start with?

Thanks.

Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 18:15

You know that I adore Camel.I don't believe that are underrated very much.But I don't like when I hear"From the obscure british prog rock bands I like Camel".Silly!For me,they are important.I agree that people had to focus more on them.A good obscure british prog rock band that I like very much is Cressida.They're obscure.Not Camel!

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Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com

Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 18:23

In terms of music camel is a first division band,saw them several times on stage in france and have never been disapointed even ther's a few weaker albums and looking at my progy frinds they're still a very popular band

Posted By: AllP0werToSlaves
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 20:22

genesis_pig wrote:

I just heard few of their tracks (Air Born, Never let go, Breathless).. would like to get into the band a bit more..

What is the best album to start with?

Thanks.

I know from my personal perspective, "Mirage", "The Snow Goose" and "Moonmadness" are excellent albums to start with. "The Snow Goose" is heralded as their best work and I would nearly agree, but "Moonmadness" takes the cake by a slight amount for me (personally, of course :) )

All in all, Camel is one of my favorite prog rock bands ever.

Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 23:01

They're also one of my favorite prog rock bands. Actually, they're one of my favorite bands, period.

Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 00:04

As far as i'm concerned , Camel was highly appreciated during the 70's & 80's , all there albums were great , and got the right recognition & rating . Nude & Rajaz were a little bit underrated , but one day we will find out that they will be highly rated . Latimer , with no doubt is among the best 5 songwriters/multi-instrumentalists . and from the way i see things , they've had more success outside UK & Ireland !

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