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Isn't Bob Marley overrated?

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Topic: Isn't Bob Marley overrated?
Posted By: fuxi
Subject: Isn't Bob Marley overrated?
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 02:50
Isn't there anyone else here who believes Bob Marley is overrated?

I can't help it, but whenever I hear tunes like "Is this Love", "Three Little Birds", "Buffalo Soldier" or even "Redemption Song" I merely cringe. They sound like nursery tunes with added rhythm section.

As far as I know, the only truly stirring tracks the man has recorded are "Get Up, Stand Up" and "No Woman No Cry". The latter is simply sublime!

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps my problem is I only really know the one-disc LEGEND. But judging from what I know, Marley simply isn't the giant of modern music he's so often made out to be. He can't hold a candle to actual giants like Duke Ellington, Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix.

Can it be said the hero-worship Marley undergoes is on the same level as nice middle-class kids wearing Che Guevara T-shirts? (Without really understanding what Che wanted or did.)

Or am I wrong?

Your opinion, please, fellow-proggers!



Replies:
Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 03:10

My problem with him is that a lot of junkies (or wannabe junkies) likes him, saying things like "Yeah, Marley is cool and great", but they actually know just vaguely that he's been doing it, wearing nice haircut (not nice for me) and constantly smiling. Well, from these circles comes big fan base.

I always prefered Jimi over Marley. And black American Jazzman's are of course out of league, their place in history is simply deserved.



And your comparison with Che Guevara Tee's is very true. This kind of people wearing T-shirts with guy about whom they know just that he fought against ..... Yep, that's it, most of them even don't know with whom he's been fighting, or why his nickname is Che.




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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 03:37
Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.
Rasta...!


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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 03:46
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.
Rasta...!

A cliche,but......this.

( "this" is the cliche Chris, not you.LOL)


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 03:48
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.

Rasta...!


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with. People from rich countries just seem to like it because they find the Jamaican accent so cute.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 04:13
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.

Rasta...!


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with. People from rich countries just seem to like it because they find the Jamaican accent so cute.

Sorry but i think you are talking bollocks here.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: TheClosing
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 04:22
I hate Sublime, does that count? Wink


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 04:34
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.

Rasta...!


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with. People from rich countries just seem to like it because they find the Jamaican accent so cute.

Sorry but i think you are talking bollocks here.



I'm sorry if I seem to be talking "bollocks", since the point I am trying to make is serious.

Nelson Mandela is a wonderful activist for freedom and peace, and in that capacity he is rightly revered by millions of people all over the world, and if you wanted to, you could say something similar about Marley, although I'm not aware that Marley ever ended anything as hideous as apartheid, and in a peaceful way too. You may admire Marley for his ideals, but does that mean he was a great songwriter or a great musician?

Similarly, the Sex Pistols and Madonna undoubtedly influenced "thousands and thousands" of artists all over the world, but does that mean they are great musicians? I certainly don't think so!

So my original question remains. Many of Marley's best-known tunes sound hopelessly naive to me. Am I misguided and was his music more sophisticated than I'm aware of, or could it be that his work (I'm not talking about his personality) is overrated?


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 04:51
I've never been much of a fan of Reggae (Black Uhuru, Lee Perry, Barrington Levi and some dub and ska  I quite like)
Marley's 'No Woman No Cry' and 'Buffalo Soldier' I think are both great songs (irrespective of genre) but what others I've heard sound a tad erm... 'samey'
Popular song formats and structures ain't really intended to be attempts at sophistication. The emotive delivery of the singer, the melody, rhythm and what the lyrics convey carry the sophistication.


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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 04:59
Bah! There's that term again..'overated'

Personally Bob Marley doesn't mean much to me, but his music is by no means the kind of thing that has me lurching for the 'Off' switch on the radio when it's played. I can think of many other artists, arse-kissed and hero worshipped by the music estblishment, and record buying public at large, who don't deserve a fraction of the adoration Marley gets.

Generally though, Reggae doesn't move me. Just not my thing.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 05:03
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.

Rasta...!


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with. People from rich countries just seem to like it because they find the Jamaican accent so cute.

Sorry but i think you are talking bollocks here.



I'm sorry if I seem to be talking "bollocks", since the point I am trying to make is serious.

Nelson Mandela is a wonderful activist for freedom and peace, and in that capacity he is rightly revered by millions of people all over the world, and if you wanted to, you could say something similar about Marley, although I'm not aware that Marley ever ended anything as hideous as apartheid, and in a peaceful way too. You may admire Marley for his ideals, but does that mean he was a great songwriter or a great musician?

Similarly, the Sex Pistols and Madonna undoubtedly influenced "thousands and thousands" of artists all over the world, but does that mean they are great musicians? I certainly don't think so!

So my original question remains. Many of Marley's best-known tunes sound hopelessly naive to me. Am I misguided and was his music more sophisticated than I'm aware of, or could it be that his work (I'm not talking about his personality) is overrated?

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 




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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 05:09
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

I.

Can it be said the hero-worship Marley undergoes is on the same level as nice middle-class kids wearing Che Guevara T-shirts? (Without really understanding what Che wanted or did.)

Or am I wrong?

Your opinion, please, fellow-proggers!
this is very true you can also said the same thing about people  wearing a pink floyd  t-shirt  [ dark side ..or the wall ]  and usually they dont have an idea what pf is about it

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Nothing can last
there are no second chances.
Never give a day away.
Always live for today.




Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 05:22
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with.....

I do not know Freedom Song, but if you refer to Redemption Song, sorry, the above is bullocks, too.
Both have naive melodies, in both songs it is the message that counts, not the melody.

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 

This.


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 05:23
Such informed opinions against the man tonight....I bow to your higher powerApprove
.
ps: I was driving a car with BMW on the bonnet the other day, strange cos I do not have a clue what BMW is aboutConfused Do you think it is something to do with post Hitlerian industrialism or just that I am a modern day rich dude who likes to pose?
 
exit stage left.........


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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 05:25
Originally posted by TheClosing TheClosing wrote:

I hate Sublime, does that count? Wink
I know this guyWink

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:27
Originally posted by Formentera Lady Formentera Lady wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with.....

I do not know Freedom Song, but if you refer to Redemption Song, sorry, the above is bullocks, too.
Both have naive melodies, in both songs it is the message that counts, not the melody.
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 
This.


Sorry - I did mean "Redemption Song". I'll be the first to admit that the MESSAGE counts; the problem is that the DELIVERY bothers me.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:29
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 


1. Where did I generalise and why is it annoying?

2. Any artist ought to be open to criticism.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:31
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Marley is certainly not overrated IMO. He is a legend, one of the greatest pioneers of reggae and music in general. A great activist for freedom, his unique freedom cry sung so eloquently in his music. Influenced thousands and thousands of musicians, affected millions and millions of listeners. A true legend. Spans across generations and whilst the weed culture is obvious in his music, at least it is for the most part a peaceful pastime.

Rasta...!


The problem is "Freedom Song" doesn't sound eloquent to me. I've heard it compared to Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but I just don't see the point. There's some trace of a melody, but the lyrics are clunky and they don't even seem to fit the rhythm. Give any idealistic 17-year old an acoustic guitar and this is the kind of ditty they might come up with. People from rich countries just seem to like it because they find the Jamaican accent so cute.

Sorry but i think you are talking bollocks here.
I have to agree. Your comments about Freedom Song could actually be applied to Working Class Hero as well as that song also has a fairly basic melody and is so basic guitar-wise that even I can play it.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:35
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Such informed opinions against the man tonight....I bow to your higher power[IMG]http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley14.gif"


If you were referring to ME, well, I was only saying that some of Bob Marley's better-known songs tend to grate on my ears. I also wished to know if other people had the same impression.

I have to repeat I really enjoy tracks like "No Woman No Cry"and "Get Up Stand Up" - and oh, you could add "I shot the sheriff" and "Exodus".

In fact, I'm half-hoping someone will turn up and tell me that such-and-such a Marley album is full of reggae that's really COOKING!


Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:43
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Bah! There's that term again..'overated'

Personally Bob Marley doesn't mean much to me, but his music is by no means the kind of thing that has me lurching for the 'Off' switch on the radio when it's played. I can think of many other artists, arse-kissed and hero worshipped by the music estblishment, and record buying public at large, who don't deserve a fraction of the adoration Marley gets.

Generally though, Reggae doesn't move me. Just not my thing.
 
Generally spoken, I agree with this. I don't give a Censored about reggae, but Bob Marley stands one or two levels above many other reggae musicians.


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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:49
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 


1. Where did I generalise and why is it annoying?

2. Any artist ought to be open to criticism.

1. For a start, the one I highlighted in bold type and Its annoying because it annoys me.

2. Its not your criticism that bothers me.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: June
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:58
How about the fact that he's probably the first artist from a developing country who achieved massive, and mainstream international fame and acclaim?

I'd say that's a pretty big deal, whether or not you like reggae.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 06:59
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 


1. Where did I generalise and why is it annoying?

2. Any artist ought to be open to criticism.

1. For a start, the one I highlighted in bold type and Its annoying because it annoys me.
2. Its not your criticism that bothers me.


Okay, I'll agree that my remark may have been facetious, and that Marley fans might take offence, because Bob was actually trying to make a Major Statement here.

On the other hand, I'm convinced that the perceived exoticism of Marley's music is actually part of his appeal. Otherwise, how could you explain that acts like the Police sold millions of records appropriating reggae and singing in cod-Jamaican accents? Acts as different as Kevin Ayers, 10cc and the Rolling Stones imitated the accent. One can only conclude that many Westerners found (and still find) a Jamaican accent endearing. No offense!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:05
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I'm not a huge fan of Marley myself but your generalisations are annoying.Tongue I just leave people who really enjoy him to do just that. 


1. Where did I generalise and why is it annoying?

2. Any artist ought to be open to criticism.

1. For a start, the one I highlighted in bold type and Its annoying because it annoys me.
2. Its not your criticism that bothers me.


Okay, I'll agree that my remark may have been facetious, and that Marley fans might take offence, because Bob was actually trying to make a Major Statement here.

On the other hand, I'm convinced that the perceived exoticism of Marley's music is actually part of his appeal. Otherwise, how could you explain that acts like the Police sold millions of records appropriating reggae and singing in cod-Jamaican accents? Acts as different as Kevin Ayers, 10cc and the Rolling Stones imitated the accent. One can only conclude that many Westerners found (and still find) a Jamaican accent endearing. No offense!

None taken...not sure i hear the accents in 10cc and The Police though. In fact i know I can't. Don't know about the other artists you mention, haven't heard their reggae songs.

The 10cc song uses Jamaican patois, but not the accent. Well thats what i think anyway.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:06
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I've never been much of a fan of Reggae (Black Uhuru, Lee Perry, Barrington Levi and some dub and ska  I quite like)Marley's 'No Woman No Cry' and 'Buffalo Soldier' I think are both great songs (irrespective of genre) but what others I've heard sound a tad erm... 'samey'Popular song formats and structures ain't really intended to be attempts at sophistication. The emotive delivery of the singer, the melody, rhythm and what the lyrics convey carry the sophistication.


Thank you for pointing this out. Many people (especially proggers, no doubt) find the Stones monotonous, and I see what they mean, but I still enjoy the band's best albums, which I find tremenJous fun, in spite of their apparent simplicity.

I guess I should have seen Bob Marley live. I once spent a whole evening grooving to some minor reggae band, and I was in ecstasy!

I'm going have to leave it here for the moment. Thank you, everyone, for your contributions so far.


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:06
I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:10
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:19
Think I sort of know what yer drivin at here Fuxi. It's not some of Bob Marley's music or lyrics you find irritating but some of his 'terminally right on' fans and pale imitators championing of his seemingly untouchable and anointed status. And what difference does it make where he originated from anyway? - musical appreciation ain't index linked. Bowie fans 'rip my knitting' for many of the same reasons (and I like a lot of Bowie's music)
But yer right, no-one is above contempt Wink


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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 07:29
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL
You would.


Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 08:44
As far as this site is concerned he isn't rated at all.  He was still good.  Peter Tosh also comes to mind in the Reggae genre.

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 08:49
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL
You would.

Thats the lyric you berk.

And its not about cricket. Its a true story of a mugging.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 09:34
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL
You would.

Thats the lyric you berk.

And its not about cricket. Its a true story of a mugging.
I know (in both cases).Wink
It's still a crap song.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 10:19
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL
You would.

Thats the lyric you berk.

And its not about cricket. Its a true story of a mugging.
I know (in both cases).Wink
It's still a crap song.

Well........I quite like it. Yeah.....quite a lot actually.Wink


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 10:28
yes

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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 10:29
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

I don't remember The Police singing in cod-Jamaican accents - what song(s)?
 
I assume you're referring to 10cc's awful reggae cricket song? That is definitely not endearing!

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!LOL
You would.

Thats the lyric you berk.

And its not about cricket. Its a true story of a mugging.
I know (in both cases).Wink
It's still a crap song.

Well........I quite like it. Yeah.....quite a lot actually.Wink
You would. Wink


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 10:40
I'm a huge reggae fan and used to play professionally with ex-pat Jamaicans in Northern California. Bob Marley is not one of my favorites, but his popularity has a lot to do with what a huge cultural icon he is to many people all over the world. His message may not resonate with everyone, but to a lot of people his call to 'get up stand up' was a battle cry that really connected at a time when such a message was timely.

As far as the music goes, his rhythm section is incredible, the syncopated contrapuntal interplay between his percussionists and guitarists is extremely difficult to replicate, even amongst reggae veterans.

Having said that, my favorite reggae artists are Prince Jammy, Scientists, King Tubby and Mad Professor. Bob's music can be kind of dreary and repetitive to me, but I am not particularly relevant to the cultural message he was bringing to the world.

P.S. On a related note, did you know that some of the keyboard parts on some of Bob's most famous albums were played by prog-rock session keyboardist Rabbit Bundrick.


Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 10:53
Eh he's cool


Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 14:27
Lady Gaga is overrated. She's doing the same thing that Dale Bozzio was doing back in the 80's.

Marley's cool. He brought Reggae to the mainstream.


Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 17:24
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:



I have to repeat I really enjoy tracks like "No Woman No Cry"and "Get Up Stand Up" - and oh, you could add "I shot the sheriff" and "Exodus".


Atleast three of his very worst right there, imo. No fan of reggae myself, but I do like ska and even calypso. So I enjoy Marley's earlier more energetic songs. Like this one.

Recorded as early as in 1963:


Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:


In fact, I'm half-hoping someone will turn up and tell me that such-and-such a Marley album is full of reggae that's really COOKING!


Here's The Wailers first recordings http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/store/artist/album/0,,194932,00.html - Simmer Down at Studio 1 . Nothing to prove his genius or lack of. Just an enjoyable collection (in small doses).

More early Wailers stuff (70-71). Its reggea by now, but with little more edge than the multimillionselling Marley + Lee Perry adds some interesting sounds and atmosphere to the production... More dub, I guess:

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Rebels-Bob-Marley-Wailers/dp/B000077SXF - Soul Rebels & http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:8s520r5ar48b - African Herbsman   (an alt. collection that covers both I think, is Soul Revolution).

By far the albums I've enjoyed the most. But I don't really like any of the later stuff, and sort of agree with your opening post.





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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me


Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 19:39

Isn't Bob Marley overrated?



Definitely not. I've always heard his influence in prog music. "Close to the Edge" at 4:53 and 7:13 has reggae overtones. And, there's always this:


If he's good enough for Jon Anderson, he's good enough for me.


Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 19:49
Very much mood music... It's alright, but I think the Rastafari culture has blown him up way too much..


Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 20:24
I've never liked Bob Marley, which meant for the longest time I thought I didn't like Reggae. Then I discovered Toots & the Maytals, Barrington Levy and Max Romeo and discovered the genre didn't have to be so boring, and that there was a lot of great stuff. 

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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.


Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 04:23
Originally posted by Ronnie Pilgrim Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:

Isn't Bob Marley overrated?



Definitely not. I've always heard his influence in prog music. "Close to the Edge" at 4:53 and 7:13 has reggae overtones. And, there's always this:


If he's good enough for Jon Anderson, he's good enough for me.

Agreed. Clap


Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 04:30
I've been a bit disappointed by Bob Marley myself, except for some songs like No Woman No Cry, I Shot The Sheriff (thought I know it only from the Eric Clapton version), Stir It Up and Could You Be Loved. I understand Fuxi. I think as a prog listener I expect something more from music, and a lot of songs from Marley sound too simple for me as well.
 
No doubt he's a very talented composer / musician, and he's one of the few third world superstars, and a strong leader and spokesman he used to be also, but for me personally, I'm not inclined to collect his albums.


Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 05:04
Not a fan either.
 
I think a lot of other artists deserve more recognition. Among them :
Jackie Mittoo
Cornell Campbell
Third World
 
I am more inclined to the original ska (in the sixties) of the Skatalites and the Maytals and also "white" ska of the british revival with the Specials, The Selecter, The Beat.
 
I also think precursors like calypso artist Ros Edmundo or jamaican rocksteady artists of the sixries.
 
Dub is also something I am digging.


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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 05:28
Well I'm not an actual "fan" either, but does that mean he's overated? I don't think so.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 05:53
I personally think the word overrated is very much overrated on the site.

As for Marley, I've never been a huge reggae fan, but his influence on the genre, and, indeed, world culture, has been phenomenal.

So, the answer to the original question has to be a resounding no, IMO.


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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 11:38
Hmmm I think he's been blown up a bit too much, as someone stated previously...
 
But he's ok. Nothing too special, in my opinion.


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Posted By: Deleuze
Date Posted: September 16 2010 at 22:48
I don't think he is...he sang from his heart, for his people, for his beliefs and for love itself. He'll always be a Legend for me...

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Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 01:22

Not over rated at all.Shocked He is(was) the most popular reggae artist for good reason.  His popularity in Africa is enormous.....also,.ask any Maori. Pacific Islander let alone a Jamacian what they think. I love him and he brought reggae to the masses with Chris Blackwell's help. Desmond Decker and Ansell Collins etc were really one offs on the charts not like Marley with hit after hit after hit



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Matt



Posted By: martinprog77
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 01:58
Originally posted by Matthew T Matthew T wrote:

Not over rated at all.Shocked He is(was) the most popular reggae artist for good reason.  His popularity in Africa is enormous.....also,.ask any Maori. Pacific Islander let alone a Jamacian what they think. I love him and he brought reggae to the masses with Chris Blackwell's help. Desmond Decker and Ansell Collins etc were really one offs on the charts not like Marley with hit after hit after hit

im sure he had a '' hit after hit after hit '' LOL

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Nothing can last
there are no second chances.
Never give a day away.
Always live for today.




Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 04:15
I find him overrated. He was a talented, quality musician, but he was not a monster when it came to ability and skill or composition or production or anything like that. He popularised reggae mostly by being in the right place at the right time, not by being its greatest practitioner.


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 06:24
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

I find him overrated. He was a talented, quality musician, but he was not a monster when it came to ability and skill or composition or production or anything like that. He popularised reggae mostly by being in the right place at the right time, not by being its greatest practitioner.

If you read some of the previous posts, it has already been pointed out that Marley's significance is not so much for the music but as a cultural leader. Consider him to be more like Mandela, Muhammed Ali or even Chuck D. If you have ever hung with Native Americans or Pacific Islanders (as well as Africans, Jamaicans and many others) you will know how important Marley is.


Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 06:48

You're selling snow to Eskimos there EM, I come from New Zealand, one of the biggest reggae places outside of Jamaica. I was just speaking about him as a musician.



Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 07:23
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

You're selling snow to Eskimos there EM, I come from New Zealand, one of the biggest reggae places outside of Jamaica. I was just speaking about him as a musician.


Yes, we know, we read your post.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 08:39
Lets break it down this way:

Bob Marley's music 101

Melody, Chord progressions and Harmonies - fairly common I IV V progressions, and variations of I vi IV V chord progressions that are common to folk songs and children's music.

Production - fairly straight ahead live band sound usually with some overdubbing, except for some select songs like 'Kaya' and others that get a little more creative.

Rhythm section - very sophisticated and extremely hard to duplicate even for reggae veterans. Sticky and Scully are simply the best and are always in high demand for studio work, (I had the honor of doing one gig with them by the way ...quit bragging)

Cultural icon and leader - HUGE!!! one of the biggest cultural leaders of our time.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 09:56
I'd like to thank everyone for their illuminating comments.


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 20:46
Originally posted by Matthew T Matthew T wrote:

Not over rated at all.Shocked He is(was) the most popular reggae artist for good reason.  His popularity in Africa is enormous.....also,.ask any Maori. Pacific Islander let alone a Jamacian what they think. I love him and he brought reggae to the masses with Chris Blackwell's help. Desmond Decker and Ansell Collins etc were really one offs on the charts not like Marley with hit after hit after hit

Thanks for restoring my faith in mankind, and EM's thread. I am currently in NZ- the Pacifics and can concur, he is enormous here too

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 21:08
Yeah.  I mean his music isn't bad by any means, but it's PRETTY poppy and commercialized music with a "reggae" sound.  I could get behind his being overrated.

That being said, he seems like he has to be the man.


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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.


Posted By: catfood03
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 22:09
All I know is that on a gut level I love what I've heard from Bob Marley. I don't try and over-think it, I just enjoy it.


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 22:25

I always liked Marley, and me being just a hip white boy, he led the to The Harder They Come soundtrack.  I prefer Toots, et. al., but I always think about Marley as being a sort of gateway drug into that, which is not a bad thing.

And I be jammun Wink


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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 22:31
Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. Rawks

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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 23:37
Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. 


What does your hair smell like?


Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 23:40
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. 


What does your hair smell like?


Probably reeks of ****.


Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 23:49
"nursery tunes with added rhythm section"

Haha perfect description


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Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it?


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 23:49
I'm not a fan of Reggae (Not that I don't find it pleasant  once in a while), but the guy was special, he had something that differences the good musician from the real icon.
 
I own one of his best of compliations and listen it when in mood.
 
Iván


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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 00:04
^ There you go and if Marley got Ivan away from the Atheism/Theism thread then you know Marley has to be damn goodApprove

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 00:24
Time tough.

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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.


Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 12:51
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. 


What does your hair smell like?


Probably reeks of ****.

Shampoo


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Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 14:42
Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. 


What does your hair smell like?


Probably reeks of ****.

Shampoo


What poo?


Tongue


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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski


Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 16:00
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

Hell yes he is overrated, and I bet his hair smelled like ****. 


What does your hair smell like?


Probably reeks of ****.

Shampoo


What poo?


Tongue

The kind used on pillow covers


Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 16:05
When you want that poo smell for your hair but can't afford real poo, get sham poo, smells just like it.


Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 16:32
No conditioner- that just makes everything complicated.....

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Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: September 18 2010 at 16:38
LOL My son had Dreads for years, I have to confess I did not get too close. I will stick with being just a Baldhead listening to my mouldy Bob Marley albums and any other 70's reggae Tongue

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Matt



Posted By: Mr Greeen Genes
Date Posted: September 19 2010 at 01:56

i like the song, Johnny Was, from Bob Marley, and a few other songs are ok... other than that he mostly bores me



Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: September 19 2010 at 12:13
Originally posted by Drew Drew wrote:

No conditioner- that just makes everything complicated.....
But so soft.  I never did the conditioning, but it's just in my house now so I tried it one day.....Oh man...as long s it's free I'll be using it.  My hair is just so comfortable to lay with now.


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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.


Posted By: GY!BE
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:05
Nope

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It is all a dream, a dream in death...


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:21
Stock answer: I'm inclined to say that Marley is overrated by some and underrated by others in various ways. 

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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts


Posted By: Deleuze
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 19:54
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Stock answer: I'm inclined to say that Marley is overrated by some and underrated by others in various ways. 


Relative answer...einstein would be proud my son...


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Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:10
Originally posted by GY!BE GY!BE wrote:

Nope


Of course you would say that, GY!BE hipster doofus.


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Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it?


Posted By: Noak
Date Posted: September 21 2010 at 10:22
Not overrated, but not very good.


Posted By: Revan
Date Posted: September 22 2010 at 09:44
I would create a poll about this.

I think not, as a matter of fact, his album survival is a fantastic peace of art, have a listen if you haven't already


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Posted By: Deleuze
Date Posted: September 28 2010 at 16:45
Not only that, he played plenty of shows live while he was affected by cancer. He shall always be remembered...

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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 29 2010 at 22:04
It´s an overrated genre to begin with.

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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 29 2010 at 22:17
Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

It´s an overrated genre to begin with.
Can't you feel the LLLLOOOOVVVVVEEEELOL

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: September 30 2010 at 16:29
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

Originally posted by el böthy el böthy wrote:

It´s an overrated genre to begin with.
Can't you feel the LLLLOOOOVVVVVEEEELOL


"No Sam, I can't" - Dewey Cox


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"You want me to play what, Robert?"


Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: October 01 2010 at 00:04

Some of the hits may be overplayed and, to those casual listeners, much of the genre may sound similar, but get into the early Marley, especially Rebel Soul and the "Scratch" Perry produced stuff.  There you may here the amalgam of influences and the true spirit of the music.  African, Caribbean, Creole, blues, jazz and more......a real melting pot of sounds and really uplifting stuff.

Ras Tafari!


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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....



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