High-End Audio-A Calling For Porcupine Tree Leader
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Forum Name: Tech Talk
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67490
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Topic: High-End Audio-A Calling For Porcupine Tree Leader
Posted By: rushfan4
Subject: High-End Audio-A Calling For Porcupine Tree Leader
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 15:17
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I happened across this article in the local paper from a couple of weeks ago and thought that I would share the link with anyone who might be interested. http://www.freep.com/article/20100429/ENT04/4290317/1039/ENT04/High-end-audio-a-calling-for-Porcupine-Trees-Steven-Wilson - http://www.freep.com/article/20100429/ENT04/4290317/1039/ENT04/High-end-audio-a-calling-for-Porcupine-Trees-Steven-Wilson
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Replies:
Posted By: Evan
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 19:16
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thanks for the link. While I don't believe that the convenience of MP3s is an absolute negative, Wilson does make some very good points - I particularly like his analogy of compressed music being akin to the JPEG of a classic work of art. good post! |
Posted By: Anguiad
Date Posted: May 17 2010 at 23:54
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Yep, he has a lot of reason. But still, the ipod is one hell of a machine. I'm one of the few that could listen the whole album with a set of headphones on the computer, but on m4a, it sounds quite good. However, the CD on stereo(no 5.1 yet) is my weapon of choice ------------- "Tis your birth and faith that wrong you...not I." |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 00:47
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Eh, lossy compression is okay if you have a high enough bitrate. Studies have proven there's no appreciable difference for those with normal hearing capabilities. IF you have damaged hearing in a particular way, you can sometimes tell, but for the average joe, its not a prob. Additionally, the comparison to visual media is not completely valid, as the human brain performs way more inter/extrapolation on audio than on visual stimuli. Literally, we often hear what we want to hear. ------------- 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 00:55
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MP3s really aren't that big a deal if they're decent quality, even the worst MP3 isn't as bad as looking at a cell phone picture, he should be complaining more about people listening to music with terrible iPod earbuds and $5 headphones. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 00:59
Particularly the ones that crank it to maximum volume, thus forcing me to listen to every single second of their awful music's treble. |
Henry Plainview wrote:Posted By: Synchestra
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 02:12
------------- 'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 14:07
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What's a no brainer to me is that his analogy is way off. Sure, technically mp3 is to CD audio what jpeg is to an uncompressed image. But in both cases, the compression ratio is the decisive factor. Any painting (or a digitalized version of it) can look marvelous as a jpg, even on a big LCD. Likewise, a properly encoded mp3 file can sound just as great as the real thing - which, in case of CD audio, is also reduced in quality compared to the master tape, which in turn is inferior to the actual performance. If we extend Mr. Wilsons analogy, any audio recording sucks, and if we appreciate music as a work of art we should only listen to live performances. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 18 2010 at 14:11
Well, that's only because you're used to inferior analog equipment that can't reproduce these frequencies properly. ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 04:28
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there's no difference between
1. Vynynl
2. CD
3. cassette tape
4. 48kbps WMA
5. 96kbps MP3
6. DVD Audio
to my ears. ------------- 
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: May 19 2010 at 13:25
I don't think Wilson should be too proud of all his productions. PT record usually sounds quite nice, but I heard the band live in Helsinki, and the sound was quite horrible. The bass frequencies was tuned up to +10, so that I was worried that the roof would fall in on me, and the volume was extremely high, I kept fiddling with earplugs to try to get some kind of decent level. Without earplugs I would probably had tinnitus for days..
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: May 20 2010 at 08:17
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^ of course live performances hugely depend on the location and the sound system, as well as the sound engineer. I wouldn't blame bands too much for bad live sound ... usually they can't influence it, and they can't hear it either on stage.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: May 21 2010 at 15:35
But still I think the two of the most common mistakes in live sound is two that is quite easy to avoid, and that is the extreme bass overkill and the ear shattering volumes. Maybe I am just growing too old, but nowadays I like to go to a concert without having to wear earplugs :) Old veterans Jethro Tull was a pleasant experience, for example. Nice balanced sound, and not at all loud. Still the music and the band had great impact.
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: May 28 2010 at 22:41
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I have to admit to liking his approach to making music, and I agree with him in spirit that the best way to experience music is off of something where the compression isn't noticeable, as a whole album. I still listen to mp3s, because I am at my desk in front of my computer all day and my stereo is in the basement. The best experience is from the stereo for sure. But compare a photo on flickr or in a photo album to a painting in a museum, each is valid for different reasons - some music is more like a flickr photo than a painting.
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 13:27
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I have the DVD-A version of In Absentia and Stupid Dream (yes the one with the horrible cover). I won't give any review of the sound of these albums yet, my old audio setup was not really up to it. I am about to put together a better system now, with some room acoustics treatment and subwoofer equalization, so maybe when this system is tuned and ready, I will try to give some evalutation of these discs.
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: June 05 2010 at 14:43
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The majority of people I know of that have Ipods don't even know there's a difference between audio compression levels... they all listen to 128 kb songs, which sound utterly horrible, and and don't know they could be listening to much higher-quality music. It's all a result of downloading from P2P sites, of course... I find it sad that they don't even know how bad the quality of the music is that they're listening to... I totally agree with Wilson... at least he's brave enough to admit there's something horribly wrong with the "download culture." Kudos Steve. -------------  
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 06 2010 at 01:24
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: sturoc1
Date Posted: June 29 2010 at 22:43
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AS to the Helsinki concert you cannot judge a particular performance audio to recorded . Live sound can be a number of different factors working for or against an FOH engineer including the engineer not being very good. Room design, System capabilities, Sold out or half house among other things can change the sound. A very good engineer will account for this during sound check or his prep for show. As for the mp3 debate where can I read this from PT's guy the link did not work. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 30 2010 at 23:10
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Apparently the articles expire after 30 days on the Free Press, and then they get moved to archives. I'm not sure how to re-access it. -------------
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Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: September 03 2010 at 12:49
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I can give Wilson some credit for the remaster of "In the Court of the Crimson King". It sounds stunning indeed, compared to the EG records CD release I had from the olden days.
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: holy ghost
Date Posted: September 06 2010 at 10:42
I would also be interested in reading this....... from the comments though, I would second that the MP3 quality is secondary to peoples choices of headphones and speakers...... I mean what's the point of a high quality rip if you're going to listen to it on those atrocious ipod earbuds? Personally I don't have as much time to listen to music on my nice home stereo as I'd want to, so I'm reliant on 320kb rips, my ipod and a subway train...... with nice headphones and a good rip I feel that's pretty similar......
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Posted By: jch
Date Posted: September 14 2010 at 04:31
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It makes me really happy to listen PT albums and it would make me even happier if other bands (I like) would take the same or similar approach of recording. . http://www.jirihifi.com - www.jirihifi.com
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Posted By: sturoc1
Date Posted: September 14 2010 at 19:19
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http://www.popmatters.com/pm/article/124918-high-end-audio-a-calling-for-porcupine-trees-steven-wilson There's the link that works for this article found it in about 2 min of searching google. |
Posted By: Westsiyeed
Date Posted: September 14 2010 at 21:56
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I agree with SW to some degree, but for some people the convenience of MP3 files and a portable music player is greater than the extra sound quality you get from a CD/DVDA on the home stereo.
Having a young family and a wife who doesn't appreciate the harder side of music
 , I'm limited to how much time I can blast the stereo, but the MP3 player gets a good workout in transit to work (and yes, good earphones are needed).That said, amongst other DVDA releases I own all PT's, and (when I get the chance) I enjoy nothing better than sitting in the middle of the living room and playing FOABP or similar in 5.1 sound. Many Gen Y's might not know what that sounds like, and they are really missing out.
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Posted By: sturoc1
Date Posted: September 14 2010 at 22:33
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I use mp3s when in transit /plane/ car/ camping /hiking where I cannot have a hi quality system available. But I use Headphones exclusively for listening during those times. Strange sometimes ,not often though, listening to certain mp3 trks I hear instrument phrasing that I haven't heard on a .wav file. Possibly due to the "throwing out' of certain freqs. That said I use mp3s only as a temp tool for listening in non critcal environs. Most of my mp3 files are generated from wav files originally, which are archived. Lps, cassettes from the 70s 80s all in wav format on the pc drives. In Studio or Home it is the .wav file all the way. |