post punk ?
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Topic: post punk ?
Posted By: lucas
Subject: post punk ?
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 13:42
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Hi all,
I noticed we have post-rock, post-metal but no post-punk as a "prog" subgenre. I believe post-punk has nothing in common with punk and appeals more to those who like their music experimental. Indeed, bands like Magazine, Devo, PIL, 23 Skidoo, Gang Of Four, Rip Rig & Panic, This Heat, The Pop Group...are just as experimental as their rock and metal equivalents.
Any thoughts ? ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Replies:
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:08
| I agree that most if not all post-punk bands were experimental, but I still think that they had more in common with punk than with prog. Besides, if there are post-punk bands that should be here, they could probably be put under crossover prog. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:19
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Vompatti wrote:Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:34
^ So would you also include bands like Joy Division and Echo & The
Bunnymen (none of whose members, as far as I know, had previously
played in a punk band)?  Talk Talk are here solely because of their last two albums which have just as much if not more in common with prog as any post-rock album. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:36
| I downloaded a track by a band called the Headboys 'Shape Of Things To Come' recently.I think this was released in 1979 and is just a perfect example of post punk meeting prog in some weird way.Direct and to the point but with a keyboard player laying it on thick a la Emerson/Wakeman. As a Swindon lad I should also point out that XTC would be perfect for this sub genre. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:43
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:51
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Why was this thread moved to general music discussion ???????????????????????????????
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:53
I don't see a problem with a punk background either, as long as the bands you suggested have made prog albums. Maybe they have, I'm not sure. But do you really think that post-punk should be listed here as a subgenre of progressive rock? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 14:58
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I have argued along similar lines in some of my reviews (Japan, Talk Talk...). While the musical form of post-punk is entirely different from what is commonly regarded as prog, both movements are just two different expressions of the same urge to bring innovative and meaningful music for me. They both have progressed and broadened the musical spectre. I think the adversity between both is largely overstated. Even some goth bands quickly learned to play adequately enough to build highly Floyd influenced soundscapes (The Cure on Disintegration, Fields of the Nephilim,...) The more artsy /avant bands amongst them (Magazine, PIL, Ultravox, Tuxedo Moon) all bear huge influences from diverse bands such as Roxy Music, Can, Neu! and so on. Well I'm very inclusive so I'd welcome a lot more genres into my prog realm as others, but apart from personal preferences I think many of these bands could build a strong progressive case. No, Prog is not an island. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 15:00
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 15:27
I endorse every single letter of this post  . The opposition between the two genres was in fact fabricated by the press, and had very little root in reality. Unfortunately, the 'punk' tag can be very dangerous for any band as regards some prog fans, and it has barred the likes of The Stranglers from being added to the DB. Anyway, in the liner notes of Siouxsie and the Banshees' Voices in the Air - The Peel Sessions album, you can read something like that: " The group adored the free-floating apprehension of Can, the glossy spookiness of The Doors, the wholesome sleaziness of Sparks, the haunted mechanical emptiness of Neu, and the perverse grace of The Velvet Underground". Two Krautrock bands, one Prog-Related one, and two that have often been suggested for addition here. And the two founders of the band met at a Roxy Music concert - another PR band. Edit: Obviously, my answer to Vompatti's question is a resounding YES. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 15:43
|
^
The more i listen to post-punk, the more I think this was the "real" prog-rock of the eighties. Clear krautrock influences in bands like this Heat and the Pop Group. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 15:55
Are there two threads on this topic...
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 15:57
Best genre ever, outside of prog of course. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 16:16
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Yep I'm getting kind of dizzy trying to work out what is what here!
I'm a big fan of 'post-punk' and I would support it as a genre. After all there seems to be several Metal genres on this site and metal aint (in itself) prog. So there must be room for a genre that fits bands of the Postpunk variety which would include for me Joy Division (Who were a punk band originally but maybe not a good one). Post punk bands dont have to have a direct link to punk. Devo were doing this kind of stuff before punk happened for example and probably had closer links at the time to ctn beefheart maybe. Art Rock aybe?
Bands like Magazine (I keep on going on about them) are progressive by nature. Post Punk is a bit of a vague title and can include a whole load of stuff (Punk Poetry anyone?). ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 16:49
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I'm not really sure what this genre entails. Would The Melvins be considered a post-punk revival band? Some of their newer stuff seems to fit the experimental, punk-inspired genre. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 16:53
No way. The post-punk revival hit in 05 or so, while the Melvins seem to have been churning out sludgy rock since the late 80s. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 21:31
Yeah, if post-punk has nothing in common with punk than why is it called post-punk? I'll admit that I know nothing or little of the bands you mentioned. Punk was billed as anti-prog back in it's heyday so whatever label it takes, it has to drop "punk" before it should even be seriously considered as a prog sub-genre. Seriously, how can you move beyond a genre that had such contempt for good musicianship? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 21:40
| What he said above, this genre deserves no spot on this site. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 22:27
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Punk was the arch rival of Prog back in the day, and all the musicians involved in that movement publicly ridiculed Prog bands quite often. Now there is a Post-Punk movement that people want to wedge into these archives? Isn't there enough diversity present here, already? If you like that type of music, go for it. I listen to plenty of music outside of the Prog circles. Just don't try and make it fit into a place it doesn't belong. prog =/= good. You can enjoy different, original music without having to call it 'prog', y'know.
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 02:17
Well it comes down to the whole Prog versus 'progressive' debate that rages here every day. Or should I say form versus attitude? Post-punk was the 'progressive' rock music of the 80's. But it was of course no Prog in any form. As to the ridicule, they sure laughed at some symphonic Prog, but never at art-rock and kraut as stated above already. Don't misunderstand me, I'd be perfectly happy if things stay as they are now, but the idea to include post-punk is far from absurd. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 02:34
Erm, call it a wild stab in the dark if you like but by becoming a better musician ? ------------- 
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 08:17
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While I like a lot of post-punk bands, I think including them on this site would be a mistake. A quick perusal through Allmusic's list of top post-punk bands should make that fairly obvious. Here is a partial listing for your convenience. Do you really think these bands aer prog? Talking Heads Echo and the Bunnymen Siouxie and the Banshees the Cure Adam Ant Bauhaus Violent Femmes etc.... For me, these bands are much closer to punk than to anything resembling progresive rock, and while they are inventive and at times experimental, that doesn't mean they belong here. ------------- 
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 08:25
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^These bands belong to a genre that has its roots in the rebellion against prog and therefore they are not prog, just post-punk. However, some bands from the punk/new-wave movement sounded a bit proggish now and then. But that does not make them prog. Though I am not a diehard purist, I don't think that such bands should be included before PA becomes RA (RockArchives). I can imagine Bowie and Black Sabbath being included, but this is just one bridge too far... ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 08:26
| Those bands you listed are incredibly different from each other. Personally, I would never think of mentioning Adam Ant in the same breath as the Talking Heads - who were a huge influence on Eighties King Crimson. I fail to see how Remain in Light is close to punk, but probably it's just me. |
Posted By: shockedjazz
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 08:46
| It was not one of the Crimsons guitar players in the "Remain in light" tour, wich you can see in youtube as live in rome? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 08:50
Yes, Adrian Belew .
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 12:38
Rick Wright incidentally mentioned Remain In Light as being one of his personal favourites of all time. Nice reference. Talking Heads almost escape genre tagging like post punk. Art Rock perhaps best fits it but lots of CBGB debutantes like Television and Talking Heads would lend credibility to this site. Magazine's debut springs to mind also. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 16:09
And I would like people here separate new wave or cold-wave (the cure, joy division, siouxsie and banshees, echo and the bunnymen) from post-punk (magazine, devo, the pop group, pere ubu (chris cutler played with them), this heat (with charles hayward from canterbuty band quiet sun), rip rig & punk, gang of four, PIL which are really experimental and bear very little similarity with the often-listed new wave/cold-wave bands when it comes to post-punk. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 17:32
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^ Cold-wave is an interpretation that is fairly unique to France - which is odd since the bands you identify as cold-wave are mainly British - the term is practically unknown in the UK. Those bands are known as Post Punk. ------------- What? |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 18:10
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Early Talking Heads (where you have Eno and Fripp involvement to various degrees) is as progressive as early-80's KC. Whether or not it's prog in the strict sense is subject to endless debate. For that matter, I've seen arguments on this very site questioning whether Discipline, Beat, 3PP are prog. Talking Heads are a unique case...despite the 'it has a good beat and you can dance to it' quality of much of their output. Same with Television.
I'd say a good case could be made for the Heads, Television, and my ol' favorites The Wipers as crossover. Not so sure about post-punk, since these bands were all extremely capable.
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 05:49
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By the way, did anyone care to look at All Music. Check the Experimental Rock section http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4437 - http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:4437
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 06:07
Karl, you can bring up all the examples you want (as I have), but some people here will not take notice of you. They see what they want to see, and will not waver a second from their beliefs. There are people here who believe PA is a den of iniquity because of the Prog-Related section, and don't know what is happening on other sites or publications - or perhaps they just refuse to see. |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 06:15
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^ But I still have the newbie-energy to help bringing it all up again! Guess I will get frustrated soon enough The reason why I want to put my energy into this is because the issues around band-additions (and genre-extensions) is the only flaw that I can see in the otherwise perfect concept that is PA. So I just want to help keeping the debate alive! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 06:31
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Karl, I understand your point of view perfectly. You see that, with my almost five years here and almost 20K posts, I still bother posting my opinion. However, no one likes talking to the wall - especially when no one can bring forward any reasons different from 'they're not prog'. As I said in an earlier post, my opinions are always backed by what my ears perceive, not by tags or affiliations.
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Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 08:35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-punk - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-punk
These bands don't belong to the Prog-Archives, IMO!!!
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 08:38
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Because of a bunch of labels thrown in by Wikipedia? What about explaining why they don't belong on the basis of the actual MUSIC? *in full devil's advocate mode today*  |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:21
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Okay, to take one of the bands mentioned by Lucas as an example: Devo. Devo's songs are short, filled with hooks, minimally orchestrated, and very simple in structure. The members possessed no degree of instrumental virtuosity to speak of. I like Devo, but I can think of nothing about their music that would warrant them a progressive rock label. That being said, I think an argument could be made for the inclusion of Pere Ubu, but the thread is about adding a new category (post-punk) not about adding individual bands. Furthermore, to deny that certain bands (joy division, Siouxie, etc.) are post-punk is absurd. Even Lucas admits that coldwave(a term I've never heard before this thread) is a sub-genre of post-punk. That would be like saying Marrillion is not prog because it is neo-prog. -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:31
Good post ! I believe we've been talking a bit at cross-purposes here. In all my posts, I have been referring to individual bands, and not to a new sub-genre (which, in my opinion, would not be a particularly good idea, especially with that name - perhaps something else?). My personal argument has always been to assess bands or artists on an individual basis, and not dismiss them out of hand just because of a tag someone affixed on them some time ago. As I have said on numerous occasions, I judge music on the basis of what I hear, not what someone tells me in a website, book or magazine. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:58
Who gives a damn what other sites are doing? We have no loyalty to them, or anybody else. We make decisions based on what we think is best for us. I could really care less what the boys next door are up to.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:01
Well, I collaborate with one of those other sites, so I for one care about what happens outside PA. I hope I haven't lost my right to do so. And I would advise you to tone down the aggression - I want to have a civil discussion here, not have to defend myself every time I post. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:20
There was nothing aggressive about my post, so there is nothing to tone down. My point was simple: what happens on some other site has nothing to do with PA. So what if you collaborate elsewhere? I'm glad you do, and I'm sure you do a good job, but what does that have to do with anything? Just because some other site decides to become more all-inclusive has no bearing whether PA should or not. I should think that's an obvious point, but you keep citing other sites as if they should dictate what we do here, so I decided to state the obvious. I'm sorry if you misunderstood and took it personally, but I never showed any aggression towards you at all.
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:30
Now I think many will not agree with this. I can't bring up the exact posts immediately, but I've read on multiple occasions (in the new bands thread) that the fact whether other prog sites include a certain artist or not, is surely a decisive factor to add them here as well (or not). Also, the point you make sounds like saying: 'I will spell the word 'progresive' with one 's' because that's how I feel it should be spelled and I don't care how others spell it. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:32
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:38
It definitely is for controversial additions (Prog-Related or not). I know this as a fact, and any of the Admin Team will be able to confirm it. There is another factor too: prog fans visit many sites to read reviews or find other information, and will see bands or artists included there that here are not. This is how many members' suggestions occur. Like it or not, we don't exist in a void. We can choose to be different, but it's not necessarily a win-win situation. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:41
On that, I do agree with you, Raff, and I'm not saying it's not worth considering, but you must realize the eyebrows and concerns decisions like this raise among many people here (not the least among them, some of our top contributors). I just want to make sure we aren't pushing for this simply because we think we need to 'keep up' with the competeting sites.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:00
Actually, I don't have time to visit other sites, I rely on other people to bring such things to my attention should they deem I need to know, this site keeps me busy enough. Though having seen The Sweet and Sting listed on one of those sites I do realise I could use that excuse to add just about any band I can think of if that was the only criteria of adding bands. Fortunately it is not. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:08
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It should also be pointed out that we are not always *behind* the other sites with band additions. Sometimes we are ahead of them. I have added bands to PA which you will NOT find on the other wonderful prog sites, or who were not there when I added them to this site.
As for those who beat us to the punch with certain groups, we'll get there eventually. Since many of us have to buy all or most of the CDs we use for our work here, we don't have the luxury of having everything the moment it is released. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:10
^ Presactly 
------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:26
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Sorry, guys, but I don't like the implications of some of the things said in the above posts. If you believe the likes of me and Olav are showing off because we get promos for free from other sites, well, you're off base. If all we wanted to do was show off, we would not care to see some of those artists we review added to PA. Finding links and samples, as well as writing bios and adding albums, is a lot of work, and I can tell you that the only reason I do that (and Olav as well - we've talked about it very often) is because we care for this site. Personally, I have learned a lot about music since I started reviewing for Progressor, and that activity has broadened my horizons a lot. This is something I want to share with the people here, and not to use as a way to state, 'look, I know more than you do'. This is just not me - and, if you think so, it means you don't know anything about the person I am. As a final remark, I do not think for a second that the other sites are ' wonderful', and could not care less about engaging into a competition with them. Most of them work very differently (i.e. they are based on news and reviews, while ours is a database), and I believe this is a good thing. However, as we don't exist in a void, I don't see why we should not consider what they do. I don't really believe it was necessary to be offensive in order to make a point. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:29
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^ Nobody has said or implied that Raff. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:34
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*That* was offensive?? Wow. I stand by my central tenet that we do fine here and don't need to feel inferior to other sites, though my comments were general, not aimed at anyone.
I'll go back to my room now
 Important Edit......missed the question marks after the first three words, previously. I was questioning how my post was offenseive, not stating that someone elses was. Again, my post below was not some indictment of either Raff or Olav or Progressor, it was a general statement about my feelings that THIS site is doing a good job. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 12:49
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^ several Off Topic posts hidden - the air's been cleared, can we move on please. ------------- What? |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 14:51
Not the most exeprimental post-punk band, somewhere between post-punk and new wave.
post-punk/no wave cf http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=5744 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=5744 http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=1894 -
somepost-punk influence but belong to the gothic wave (see below).
No, I never said that. Once more I will give the example of the MOST eclectic website I ever saw : "guts of darkness". Here is a list of the musical genres reviewed http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/styles.php - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/styles.php
Let's focus on punk and gothic.
Punk is subdivided as follows (the figures in brackets are the number of albums reviewed) :
The following band are tagged "post-punk" : - The Pop Group : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11190 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11190
- Gang Of Four : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12436 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12436
- Magazine : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12411 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12411
- This Heat : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12491 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=12491 well post-punk/RIO/avant-rock
- A certain ratio : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11048 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11048 well post-punk/funk
- XTC : http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11765 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=11765 post-punk/psychedelic
No wave, steming from post-punk, is another half prog-half punk related style with bands like Massacre, Bill Laswell, Material, Etron Fou Leloublan (RIO/no wave), James Chance and the Cotortions, Glenn Branca, DNA (with Arto Lindsey, later in The Lounge Lizards)...
Then gothic :
The following bands belong to the gothic wave : - The Cure ( http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=2769 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=2769 ),
- joy division, http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=1967 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=1967 well cold-wave + post-punk
- echo an the bunnymen http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=5755 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=5755
- siouxsie and the banshees http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=3466 - http://www.gutsofdarkness.com/god/objet.php?objet=3466 post-punk goth
Talking Heads are tagged "new wave".
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 19 2010 at 17:07
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Already there is disagreement over who or what Post Punk is and this is before the idea has even begun to look half serious. The definitions listed on Guts Of Darkness (I think that's a positively dreadful name btw - and I'm an ex-Goth) are not universally accepted or recognised and many of them are unheard of outside France. I have said before on this forum that many of the musicians that formed Post Punk bands in the 1980s would have been in Prog Bands if the music climate had not changed in 1976 ... but it did change and they did not form Prog bands. Some of those musicians later went on to form more Progressive oriented bands, and some of those Post-Punk bands were continuing the Art Rock/Krautrock/Electronic/RIO tradition - we recognise who those bands were and have included them into existing subs here - creating a specific Post Punk category to include a whole wave of bands that have no connection to any existing Prog subgenres is meaningless.
No, this really is not going to work at all. Sorry Lucas, but I cannot support this idea. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Lost Follower
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 08:55
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I see no link between over blown twiddling and experimentation. Post punk was the direct descendent of punk, which kicked down the doors for young musicians to break rules. Post punk and 'Prog' couldn't be more different. ------------- ~Jump you f**ker jump~ |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 10:49
| Somebody lock this thread before the debates get started all over again. Please. |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 12:09
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 13:12
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I like post-punk, but I think it's obvious that the site will not be adding post-punk as a subgenre anytime soon.
Post-punk bands that are progressive will be added to existing subgenres. I was listening to Devo's first album the other day, amazing record, very progressive. I think people should try to present a strong case with musical examples etc for XTC and Pere Ubu, I think those bands might have a shot. Meanwhile bands like Massacre and Material are already here. Oh yeah, and Robert Fripp's Leaugue of Gentlemen, they used to play the Mudd Clubb, ha ha ha. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 13:16
As I said before, I believe this is the main problem with this thread - suggesting a new subgenre with such a controversial name, rather than assessing individual bands like the ones you just mentioned. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 13:33
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Let's all just relax and listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6n-M-xP9w - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6n-M-xP9w
Warning: you're in for a 10 minute joyride.
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:12
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^
hehe this post-punk band sounds like a cross of Hawkwind and La Düsseldorf. But as some people here "explained" previously, it is linked to the punk movement, therefore it has nothing to do with prog (?)...
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:20
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:24
| I think that Portraits of Past is a perfect example of Post Punk who defined a genre! Awesome band, but VERY underrated! |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:24
Amazing how nomenclature and associations to spooky things can keep people from appreciating this late 70s/80s music, eh? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:29
Well, why don't you PM M@x then, and ask him to delete the entire subgenre, since you believe it is not prog - instead of treating everyone who disagrees with you like an idiot? I just wonder why we are wasting your time in discussing things, when you already have all the answers. |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:33
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:34
 you say it...I try to build a discussion but most of the progheads come and say : "no, it comes from punk so it can not be "prog" ".
Metal is not prog/ post-metal is experimental therefore it IS "prog".
Punk is not prog / post-punk is experimental therefore it is NOT prog.
Something is wrong in this reasoning... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:42
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:44
I'd like to hear somebody's opinion about this -in my opinion - fantastic Post Punk band ... Thank you in advance!!!
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:47
Ultravox and TSOL did go on some pretty synthtastic adventures, the former more than the latter. Pretty polished and state of the art stuff, yet exploratory at the same time. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:51
This is post-hardcore, and just as bands like cult of luna, isis, the ocean and tusk, they could qualify for PA, but under post-metal, as there is no post-hardcore tag in PA. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 14:51
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:00
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:07
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^
given that I saw recently Dillinger Escape Plan on stage, plan to go and see Rolo Tomassi and iwrestledabearonce, bought CDs by sweet noise, coalesce and assjack, saying that I dislike hardcore or post-hardcore would be lying. Also I have a friend of mine who is a die hard fan of hardcore and who got me into it. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: ko
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:10
ps another great song by them (just ignore that wrong cd cover!)
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 15:18
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^
excellent.
Check out Orchid as well (I suggested them for PA).
The curious thing about Assjack (see my previous post) is that it is lead by Hank Williams III, yes the same guy who released country-rock albums. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: February 22 2010 at 17:29
Joy Div and Siouxsie are Post Punk. Joy Div Post Punk in every way possible. In the type of music they play. In the time period they sprung up. In the fact they started as a punk band and then changed. Siouxsie started as a punk band and then recorded at least two PP albums and singles . They all were adopted by Goths but none of the above are Gothic even 'Goths' at the time wouldn't call them that - unlike possibly Bauhaus, Sisters, Sex Gang, Southern Death Cult, UK Decay etc.
In the end, as Dean said the difficulty with this as a genre is, even the fans can't agree to what is what! I would like to think that some bands would be accepted somewhere here. But I have no idea where? I still think that there is a place for SOME of these bands but probably not all. in the end there is a huge difference between what some describe as post punk like Wire and Violent Femmes (See previous posts) Still its fun seeing people get hot under the collar ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: February 22 2010 at 17:39
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gproa6vzgws -
------------- Help me I'm falling! |