The Beatles Breakthrough
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64699
Printed Date: January 30 2025 at 10:37
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Topic: The Beatles Breakthrough
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Subject: The Beatles Breakthrough
Date Posted: January 28 2010 at 21:26
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Well, this is something interesting. Ever since I was young I never understood the love for the Beatles' music and I just didn't get any of it up until recently when my brother received The Beatles' Rock Band for Christmas (since he loves them to death). I still didn't enjoy anything, but I decided to play the game with him because he wanted me to. It was through that that I began to take more careful note of the arrangements and structures. While I used to have a passionate general disdain for anything that represented popular or simplistic music because I believed it to be the artistic opposite of music that I always found to be deep and intellectually stimulating, it seems as though with this and particularly my musical development over the past year that I've pretty much opened my horizons nearly as far as they could go. It's simply a great feeling to finally hear something wonderful and happy in their music. Even though I still REALLY don't particularly care for anything pre-Revolver. Anyone else have a similar experience? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 28 2010 at 21:32
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I still have similar experinces, and hopefully you haven't opened your horizons as far as they could go but rather begun a process of progressive appreciation (no pun intended) |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 28 2010 at 21:36
That's pretty much what I've been doing for the past 6 years, and I hardly even listen to anything that's on this site lately. What I meant by that statement is that I pretty much will listen to anything anymore and at least see some sort of value in it. There's only that small percentage of music that I would deem as "processed crap", mainly the stuff that is obviously written only for commercial purposes (and often not even by the "artist"). In short: there's really any good music to be found in any style and in any form; you just have to find what you like. "It's music and I like it." It's simply a REALLY good feeling to at least find some value in a band that for my whole life found absolutely nothing in. -------------
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Atavachron wrote:Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 28 2010 at 22:02
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I was always able to enjoy the commercial. I can still bop along to "99 Luft balloons" or Styx's "Babe" without any shame. Guess I'm not quite as much a music snob as I'd like to be. Though I do dislike rap, hip/hop, and most commercial "dance" music though, so I get to be snobby there. Maybe I'll buy the Lady GaGa album to further lighten up.  ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 28 2010 at 22:06
Classic rock was important to me in my musical development, because I didn't really care about music before my dad showed me Rush years ago. Others like Styx and Blue Oyster Cult were around that time too, so I don't mind "Babe" at all. It's pretty much been a gradual mind-opening process ever since, in commercial directions and very experimental directions. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 05:32
I find the essentials for me start with Rubber Soul. My parents never had any albums but I was well immersed in the music through radio, etc. Even as elevator music in the '70's (fer cryin' out loud) before I became a full fledged prog fan. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 06:03
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Good point Brian. Alex, even knowing your aversion to the real early stuff, do make the effort to push back one title further to Rubber Soul. A masterpiece of songwriting, singing, even ambitious early arrangements, delicate but thoughtful. Don't pass that one by if you're embracing the band.
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 06:44
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The Beatles music isn't as "simplistic" as some might imagine (and a lot of this comes from the musical knowledge of George Martin) and the change began a bit earlier than Revolver (check out Rubber Soul). Speaking as a massive fan, I can take or leave most of the first two albums, then from A Hard Days Night onwards, the real gems start to appear.
Glad to see The Beatles Rock Band has made at least 1 new fan!
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 09:50
I'm going to give every album a newfound shot, at least, even the really early ones. -------------
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 09:53
I guess it was simply a total lack of being able to relate to the music; I felt distanced from the simplicity of it (since I have a natural tendency to go for depth in my art to begin with, regardless of the medium--which is why I like Lost) and I also felt extremely distanced from the whole cultural aspect of it. Listening to any of their songs or albums just never made me feel anything ever. Then I noticed I began appreciating a few of the songs while playing them on the game with my brother because I was paying more close attention to subtle nuances and unique arrangements. Then it all just kind of clicked. I doubt I still ever really enjoy them enough to have them be in my top favorites, but it's hard to say until I sit down and give each album unit a proper listen again. -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 09:57
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First the Saints make the Super Bowl; now Alex finds out that he might actually like the Beatles. No wonder it so damn cold north of Kentucky. Hell really has frozen over. ------------- 
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 10:03
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Though Revolver was the first really experimental album, and rightly considered one of the best albums of the rock-n-roll era, Rubber Soul is, for me, the textbook on songwriting. The Beatles do not use straight I-IV-V progressions much of the time. Diminished chords and augmented chords are common as early as their second single "From Me to You." They were never deliberately complex, just trying new things to further the muse.
Early on, there are quite a few covers, and the songwriting is still in development. But as a musician, playing hundreds of shows and knowing hundreds of songs (even simple ones) just changes your ear and competency. The Beatles did a nice variety even way back when.
There is a beauty in near-perfect songwriting in early gems like "Ticket to Ride" and "Help!" Even then things were a little past pure pop.
I'm a Beatles junkie so I could rattle on.... ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 10:21
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Now you can contemplate the deep mysteries of I AM THE WALRUS.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 10:30
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Goo-goo-kachoob, man. Groovy. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 15:28
James said the same exact thing.  -------------
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 15:29
I'm honestly not all as familiar with Rubber Soul so I'll have to change that and get back to you on that one. I do see what you mean though; and I think "They were never deliberately complex, just trying new things to further the muse." is a very true statement. -------------
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Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: January 29 2010 at 17:12
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I've been told when a Boy kiss a Girl, take a trip around the world heyhey
------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 00:02
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I think it's worth starting from Help! though it is indeed Tomorrow Never Knows that makes you go holy s***, from which planet are these guys from!
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Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 00:50
Doesn't matter were it comes from as long as it keeps comin' Often I've heard old movies,kids shows anything except MTV  . Anyway The Beatles had a cartoon series in the late 60's ( They had nothing to do with it themselves) but all the songs Revolver back were played on it and I bloody loved it.  ------------- Matt |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 00:55
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Rubber Soul may be their most transitional album, but Revolver was transformative both in terms of material and approach to record making; despite the progression in songwriting, Rubber Soul was still a collection of songs, albeit great ones, but was a fairly uneventful Beatles album. Revolver on the other hand was something else-- from 'Eleanor Rigby' and 'Yellow Submarine' to 'Good Day Sunshine', 'For No One' and 'Tomorrow Never Knows', it was evident this was something quite special in rock and not simply another high-quality album by a group of talented young guys. |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 01:28
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Having listened to Revolver as a child, I heard the U.S. Version, which omits 3 songs. So it was years later that the transformative effect which I think Dean is talking about became a unique experience for me .when I heard it the very first time. This experience is timeless to me. The song is "I'm Only Sleeping" and as it is ending, it fades out while guitars are playing backwards, then silence, then the brushing of the Tabla ( I'm really not sure if its a Sitar exactly)
I can't explain how this moment tweaks my mind, but it does ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 01:37
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Let me edit my last statement
...the transformative effect that ATAVACHRON was mentioning ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: Floydman
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 15:44
The Beatles incorporated sounds, textures and recording techniques that were not commonly associated with pop music and rock music. The example are numerous ranging from running a series of loops though a recording console or writing and recording backward parts. Listen to some of “Strawberry Fields Forever” demos, there is a definite feeling that this was a groundbreaking song. It doesn't fit into any R'n R / folk /Muscle Shoals(?) template does it? So they had to invent a whole new musical vocab. to accommodate the song. This obviously had an influence on the Rolling Stones psychedelic period and everyone else. The Beatles were known for their melodies and odd chord progressions they changed how musicians thought of the album just ask Brian Wilson. Robert Fripp of the pioneering progressive rock band King Crimson said on Cambridge Guide to the Beatles his goal was to build on what the Beatles did on Sgt Pepper. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 16:16
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Glad to see another person converted to The Beatles! I never thought I'd hear that from you! Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of Abbey Road? I think that's their best album by a large margin... -Jeff ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 21:19
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You'd better listen to Rain/Paperback Writer Taking nothing away from the early stuff, that's where the band turned the corner. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 22:41
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yeah, but I still dig the early stuff like Paul's rippin' bass on "Little Child" ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 30 2010 at 23:27
Abbey Road is my 2nd favorite; it's pretty good. I'd say from Sgt. Pepper's to Abbey Road everything is pretty good. Before Sgt. Pepper's, Revolver and Rubber Soul are alright; still don't care for much before that, and not really impressed or familiar with Let It Be.
However... the White Album TOTALLY blew me away beyond belief and I believe that it is by far their best work---despite how accomplished Sgt. Pepper's, Abbey Road, and Magical Mystery Tour are. That's just my take on it. -------------
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 07:27
^ All these albums are great. And for me it's The White One that floats my boat. But take these 'large margins' and 'by fars' with a pinch of salt - neither is true. Listen and enjoy!
 ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 09:30
I totally dig the early stuff, of course it doesn't compare to what came later but I even think it's a bit underrated. A Hard Day's Night and Help surely deserves a listen if you already got into the post Rubber Soul albums, they already started devolping their songwriting on those albums. ------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 14:12
I agree; from Sgt. Pepper's to Abbey Road are all really good.
I am just absolutely astounded at how good The White Album is, I can't get enough of that one specifically. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 21:00
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^ better late than never I guess... the Beatles are the Beatles for a reason. They aren't the brain child of some evil L.A. publicist and a load of style over substance... they are who they are because they made the music that defined and directly inspired the most incredible era of popular music, maybe ever, and still resonate with people, old and young today.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 21:34
God I hate agreeing with this critter but damn his eyes, he's right. Anyone who is even tenuously employed within popular music of any genre in any capacity and is NOT influenced by the Beatles: Time for a career change doncha think ? ------------- 
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 22:16
That's true.
My misconception was basely purely on two things: that I still had somewhat of a barrier against "popular" music (which I'm glad for not having anymore) and I therefore misjudged them based on most of what I had heard to be pretty generic. My brother's favorite Beatles albums are Please Please Me and Help!, so my first actual exposures to the Beatles were me wondering, "And this is it?"
I'm just glad I've finally sat down and given them proper evaluations rather than usually hearing songs out of context. -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 22:20
That's exactly like how I could not convince progheads who had only heard Owner of a lonely heart to take Yes seriously, as a prog rock band that is...likewise with those who had heard only pop-Genesis. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 22:31
Yeah, as I was playing Beatles Rock Band I began to notice that they weren't all like that (even though those early ones are still not HORRIBLE, just nothing that excites me) and I noticed the really subtle genius moments in their music. I began to think that perhaps I had pulled one of those moments; I never suspected it before because I had enough evidence otherwise to conclude they were mostly just a pop band.
I'm so glad I was just being closed-minded. Needless to say, this was the last huge step in my musical development pretty much; I've branched out to find so much good music in many areas and this was the last logical step for me to take before eradicating all the barriers keeping me from discovering a whole lot of things.
It was also a time/priority factor... I just figured there were so many other acts that deserved my time more than giving the Beatles an actual sit-through evaluation. I'm happy I've gotten around to it, as there really is some good stuff despite the earlier material. -------------
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: February 01 2010 at 10:06
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The early growth or that explosion of Beatle mania, kids my age were astonished by their hair style and music. The change in social environment at that time was shocking to us. We knew about Chuck Berry and 50's rock n' roll but, this was a different style to what we ever heard in rock. Many kids that heard John Lennon sing "Twist and Shout" were taken over with ecstasy. When I rode the school bus, the kids were always singing Beatle songs. It was a very unusual time. The Beatles were English and contained a sound that was very alien to us but yet hypnotized us all. By the time the mid to late 60's rolled around, the Beatles were changing and many of us lost identity with the source of The Beatles. Peer pressure to not listen to strange songs like Strawberry Fields Forever. A strange little ditty but in poetic vain. Parents were concerned over the hippie age. That music was groundbreaking to musicians everywhere. The impact of late 60's Beatles had seasoned musicians up late at night lifting the tone arms of their turntables endlessly attempting to educate themselves in the area of artistic songwriting.After the mis-quoted Christ statement from John Lennon, the school staff was on our case quite a bit, as they made attempts to ban Beatles music from the school environment. Parents reacted harshly towards all my friends. John tried to explain it had more to do with the natural way he talked but, most people would not buy into it. Everyone in high school hung on for their lives. Everyone discreetly stuck to their guns and the Beatles remained with us in spirit. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: February 01 2010 at 12:17
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Corny but true - The Beatles' music was the soundtrack to my life, along with many other artists of course, but the earliest songs have a special place for me, i first heard "Love Me Do" in 1962 and was hooked, the hook is still in but has gone a lot deeper over the years, and i will be buried with it still firmly lodged there..
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 01 2010 at 15:14
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As I said to you earlier; I knew your taste in music was too good to stay away from these guys forever.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: February 09 2010 at 21:11
| What kind of a world is it when 2 of the Beatles are dead and all 4 of the Monkees are still alive? |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 09 2010 at 23:32
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 00:58
I own a copy of The Fame Monster, so HA!  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:38
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so who the hell is Lady Gaga? I saw some hack compare Pink Floyd to her... in blissful ignornace of her (assuming it is a she haha) anyone got a youtube clip for me... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:40
You don't want one. -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:42
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I've seen her compared to David Bowie and Freddie Mercury, but not Pink Floyd. I'm not really sure why though. I guess Freddy Mercury because of Radio GaGa. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:46
probably not.... but I do like to keep an open mind.. give me one. A freebe to f**k with the Big Mick for being such an a****le around the forums ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:47
one of our forum newbies in a post I saw yesterday ... goes to show the point about opening mouths and removing all doubts about ignorance ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:49
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Lady Gaga is a pop singer that has been everywhere lately. It really takes living under a rock not to at least have heard one of her songs without knowing it was hers. And I'll say I kind of like her pop.  ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:51
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This is for Alex and David:
Lady GaGa's Poker Face dubbed with Meshuggah.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:52
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Here is the actual video:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:54
I love the rock I live under Hell.. I get my news from infrequent visits to this site. Since Raff has come here I've been very insular from the world. A nice place to be...------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:54
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Personally I don't see what people see in that garbage, but to each their own I guess. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 10:55
pausing Heart to check this out... thanks Scott... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:00
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*crawls back under rock* not bad.. but I have better stuff when I feel the urge to get funky and shake my ass.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:01
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I must confess I do prefer Lady GaGa over Meshuggah. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:01
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Messuggah?
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:10
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Lady Gaga is an amazing song writer. I'm not a huge fan of her besides a handful of tunes, but her ability to turn out so many hit songs is respectable. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:11
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This might be the only occasion ever where LAdy Gaga is mentioned in the same sentence as Messhugah... And I'm not sure which one I prefer.... -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:18
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Did you see the video above where someone dubbed Meshuggah's Bleed over the Poker Face video. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:36
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^ I just did.. while trying to eat lunch. Give me Lady Gaga over that sh*t anyday... at least Gaga understands that melody is an important part of music ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:53
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How amazing the drummer of Meshugah is... Anyway, and as un-metal as this may sound, I'll also take Gaga over Meshugagah most days... (with exceptions..) -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 11:58
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^ true... their drummer sort of destroys the Phil Collins like drumming of Lady Gaga.. then again.. Gaga sort of has an edge over Messhuggah in the vocal and melodic categories
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 13:46
| I heard both tracks, and, while I find Lady Gaga's music largely uninteresting (not a big fan of electronic gimmicks, and I'd take Madonna any day over her), Meshuggah are definitely way too intense for me. Yes, the drummer is insane, and I'm sure they are all very gifted technically, but I also believe that music should be very much about melody (meant in the broadest sense of the word, but still). |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 14:31
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Are we back in 17th century Europe? Why does music need melody? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 14:40
Because I feel it does need it. Have you ever heard of personal taste? |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 14:42
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I was addressing your husband. I have no problem with personal taste. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 14:43
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well... music doesn' need melody... it doesn't even need talent hahah melody.. like talent.. just makes music better. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 02:28
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The bursting energy of "Tell Me Why" is so happy. The sharp 9ths on guitar. 3-part harmonies. Ringo's stacatto stop/start. Beatle songs meant happiness, and joy. They rock and rolled this world like no other band before them, and they were also our dear friends. They gave music depth, class, integrity and passion. I think America is responsible for their artistic development. In my life, The Beatles are my family, my brothers and my parents and my generation and most of all, my America ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: February 25 2010 at 03:09
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l
l a
i l
w w
a
I y
s
e O
v u J H
o o N
L Y
------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: February 27 2010 at 17:48
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"When you were young and your was an open book...." always love you Paul
" you know that what you eat you are....." XOXOXO george
"..she's all ribbons and curls, oh what a girl! Lips like strawberry wine..." Love you Always Ringo
and p.s. ...you are not small and without your steady backbeat the Band would be nowhere (A Hard Day's Night) ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |