Well said.  It doesn't take drugs to be creative.  Just look at Zappa.

 

 

 

Came here for Cartman.  Leaving satisfied.

 

/hippies can't stand death metal

 

I admit I don't know.  My only point was, hippie or not, we owe a lot to at least some of those '60's counter-culturists, hippie or otherwise.  That also was my reason for referencing WOIIFTM, as FZ absolutely skewered the pretenders, while keeping hands off the righteous. 

I think that you are unaware that we are aware that coffe tea etc are drugs too. God how condescending.

Anyway, you don't have to be a hippy to smoke pot, but I have a very low regard for hippies and other degenerates anyway.

 

LSD found a new home in rave culture

Where acid rock gave way to acid house,

Hippies gave way to Crusties,

The summer of love was reborn

In the second summer of love 

Where the handpainted camper van

Became the the handpainted combi van

Ladbrooke Grove moved to Glastonbury,

Haight Ashbury relocated to Chicago,

And the dawning of the Age of Aquarius

Gave way to afternoon of new age mysticism,

The Peace Movement became the Peace Convoy

 

Old Hippies never die, they only smell that way.

 

 

 

Anyway, Hippies were never associated with Prog Rock. By the time Prog became the prominant music of youth the hippy movement was long gone and replaced by the Freak Scene;

 

wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_scene - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_scene wrote: ]The freak scene was a term used by a slightly post-hippie and pre-punk style of bohemian subculture. It referred to overlaps between politicised pacifist post-hippies, generally non-political progressive rock fans, and non-political Psychedelic music and Psychedelia fans. The individuals moved between rock festivals, free festivals, happenings and alternative society gatherings of various kinds. The name comes, at least partly, from a tongue-in-cheek reference to the beat scene.

 

 

But I'm a pacifist who dabbles in Eastern religions, loves acoustic guitars, psychedelic music, yoga, and believes that one might possibly have real mystical experiences with chemical help. And yet, my drug experience is extremely scant outside of alcohol, which I used as a social lubricant and really never had anything to do with my "hippiedom."

 

So I may be a non-drug using, full contributing member of society, responsible parent, and still a hippie at my core.

 

(While I listen to Yes' debut album which I love...I guess that clinches it)

Not necessarily as glib as it appears on the surface. The youth of 1988 acid house culture were born around 1968 (though not necessarily of Hippy parents, they were the children of the Hippy Generation) whereas Prog fans were the children of the Rock'n'Roll/Beatnik Generation two (subculture) generations earlier. I don't agree with the idea that each generation rebels against their parent's generation (there is no real evidence of this), but with one of the generations between them, ie the most immediate preceeding generation. This is born-out by revivals that skip a generation or two, and that the current "Prog" revival is a result of people being influenced by the music of their parents, not of their elder siblings.

ExittheLemming wrote: In Scotland circa 1985, most the of the hippies I knew were pony-tailed insurance clerks who swapped their pin stripes for cheesecloth after 5pm. Those who didn't work supplemented their dole income by selling drugs or pimping their girlfriends.

My year living in Edinburgh coincided with the post-Punk New Romantic era of pixie boots and pirate shirts that harked back to the pre-Punk Glam ethos and I saw no evidence of any interim transition between Hippies and pony-tailed insurrance clerks (or any evidence of Prog come to that - or even Neo Prog, Marillion found fame in the Home Counties and not in the Heart of Lothian). Then I didn't associate much with people who would have been in their late 30s by that time.

ExittheLemming wrote: Where does Freak Scene come from ? No such interim youth movement was evident (at least in Scotland) prior to punk's arrival in circa 1977. It may have earned its revisionary author a nice lucrative information job in the city, but never existed full stop.

I can only speak from personally history/experience - in the East Midlands of Bedford and Northampton of the 1970s the two confilicting youth subcultures were Freaks and Skins.

ExittheLemming wrote: You either liked Prog or Punk in 1977 Glasgow and the former is inextricably associated with Hippies, regardless of what semantic nuance of sociology is yer bag.

Punks used the term "Hippies" as a derogatory put-down rather than an accurate terminology. The Hippy Movement died in 1969, the vestigages of which trickled through into the Glam/Prog era, but only as a fashion and music development, not as a lifestyle.

ExittheLemming wrote: Of course its a given that Hippies don't have a monopoly on recreational drug use, but we've already seen this argument unwittingly undermined by someone citing their use for 'religious purposes' - I mean wake up, those who believe in transcendental agents, miracles, the primacy of love and a cosmic architect couldn't possibly be mistaken for hippies could they ?

As I said...bollocks.

Are you mad? What is this randomness? We all know that alcohol is a drug, but comparing it to Magic Mushrooms is ludicrous. And what do studies about alcoho; have to do with anything in this discussion at all?

Also, FACT Alcohol is worse for you than many of the drugs you people are complaining about people using.  

Yeah....druggies always say that.

 

this from Sounds, 1974:"For though Hawkwind have become token hippies, the irony is that for the most part they are real hippies - Nick certainly admitted feeling distressed that "hippy" was now used as a term of abuse. But how many hippies are there left, really? For in Amsterdam, that supposed citadel of the type, the cold fact is that they pulled only one third capacity at the Concertgebouw."

 

Speaking for myself, I know that I'm definitely NOT a hippie. Maybe I wanted to be one for a while, but it does not fit in with my own ideas. I have a particular dislike for spirituality in general and Eastern morosophies in particular; I never wanted to have a Persian carpet and wish it could fly, for I love to have solid ground beneath my feet. I prefer the exclusivity of marriage above "free love". The smell of patchouli brings me in a state which precedes vomission. I quit smoking pot when I was about half my current age without yearning for it ever again. And I'm happy this way .

 

I'm just a conservative...

 

I grew up listening to heavy metal in the 80's though.

Fortunately (!) the 70s fashion that we all think of is a bit of a caricature of what people really wore - glam & glitter was not street wear, most teenagers (certainly of the Prog persuasion) wore denim and a printed T-shirt much like they have done ever since. Jeans were flared (somewhere between 16" & 28") but platform and stack heeled boots were not that common (it's really difficult to drive a car or ride a motorcycle in them). Punk fashion in the UK was not quite as wide-spread as the fashion culture historians would have you believe either and by the time it hit the High Street (~1979) the movement itself had more or less gone. From a male perspective it generally meant nothing more than the jeans becoming narrower and the t-shirt graphics changing from Peace and Love to Anarchy and the colours changing from Purple and Orange to Grey and White.

 

What we did have in the UK was a massive inflation and an economic recession, which lead to the 3-Day week, unemployment, strikes and the Winter Of Discontent... which basically meant we were too skint to waste money on food, clothes and haircuts (and soap, shampoo and a razor) when there was good music to be bought and great gigs to go to.

 

I managed to hang on to my hair until '78, but I needed to get sponsorship to go to Uni so had it trimmed to shoulder length for the interview. That length didn't suit me, so I had it cut a bit shorter the following year - it stayed shortish for another 4 or 5 years, but by the Mid-80s I was one of those pony-tailed ex-hippies Iain referred too (but not an insurance clerk ).

 

Can't say much about the flip-clocks, being a electronics apprentice I was more interested in LED and Nixie clocks and even owned a Sinclair Black Watch.

 

You'd have to be an idiot not to know that caffeine and nicotine are drugs, especially since whenever these discussions come up, the substance abusers always shout BUT CAFFEINE IS A DRUG TOO WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THAT!? Unlike a most people, I don't regularly drink caffeinated beverages because it's already hard enough for me to get up in the morning without my being addicted to a stimulant, but I think the difference between caffeine/nicotine and LSD is obvious: LSD causes you to lose touch with reality, and the most caffeine can do is make you feel energetic. Nicotine is stronger, but that still only has peripheral mood effects. I read an interesting study a while ago that said that the relaxation given by a cigarette is actually just the relief of nicotine withdrawal, and I think increasing stress is a bad idea, but I guess others may disagree.

And yes, lots of people abuse alcohol as well, but I also judge people who get piss drunk for fun. In fact, many studies show that alcohol is actually more harmful than many drugs that are illegal ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122765890 - I just saw this today , which caused me to once again laugh at the shortsightedness of my peers), which is always used as proof that marijuana and whatever else should be legalized, but I tend to take it the other way, although I realize that outlawing alcohol would be a very bad idea.

 

 

 

 

Don't know how true THAT is??????

 

I wouldn't say so. Neil just looks like a hippie, but he is just an afterimage of hippiedom, placed in the wrong context of time. In fact he may be rather a yuppie (a word from the time of his heyday) than a hippie.

 

 

 

 

Yes, citing that a lot of people say something is a good way of proving it's wrong.  Looking at the facts would be another good choice.  But that would lead to you being wrong, so I wouldn't suggest it.

More wax museum information here........There was a kind of fad that ruled over circles of the youth from 1970 to 1975 in South Jersey. That fad was Devil worship and it was on a very vast level. The films, the music and the witchcraft in high school. Kids were always talking about casting spells. I grew up in Vineland, N.J. and there were some very disturbing and tragic events which took place during my high school years. There was a bizzare Satan cult killing in 1971. There was a Satan worshippers sect in our area. Remember Lilith Sinclair? High Priestess of the Church of Satan on the west coast? She was investigated for the murder of a kid in our school. Her and a segment of the group had migrated to Vineland and the police were conducting a huge investigation attempting to link her to the murder. Maybe Miss Sinclair felt that taking vunerable kids into her group was perfect timing because witchcraft was very commercial then. I stayed in my room most of the time anyway. I didn't care to indulge. Black Sabbath's first album was a huge influence on kids my age. However, this was no Heavy Metal mentality or concept relayed. There was no such term at that time. It was defined as Hard Rock. There was no Lost Boys movie to influence kids to form their private vampire cult. In the media there was Dark Shadows and the memory of films like Rosemary's Baby from 1966. Revised in people's minds nevertheless.

 

There were many Jesus freaks trying to convert kids off the street. They had study groups and were relentless. They would pass judgements upon you just for taking a walk down the street. There were many in-houses where they resided and took kids under their wing. They were well aware of the Devil worship society and drug consumption crowds in Vineland. My only concern was the fact that Lilith Sinclair and the Church of Satan posed as one of these groups, but conducted services in a church that many well respected citizens attended on Sundays. Eventually she was forced out of the area after the Black Magic sacrifice of a student in our school.   

 

some people have no sense of humour - or am i right?

 

 

 

 

they were strange times indeed - Glam rock and Heavy rock ruled in the mid 70's, everyone was trying to out-do the 60's but it went too far and things became really gross.

 

beneath all this pretentious floss we were still in the 1950's in people's minds, it was not until the 90's that the real meanings and ethics of the 60's bore fruit - the environment, standard of living, racism, world village etc.

 

Punk Rock was just a reaction to all the floss by disaffected unemployed teenagers making a noise, never liked it and still don't.

 

  

i  have a lot of happy memories of the 70's, people were a lot more neighbourly then, though many areas such  as Health and Safety regulations have come a long way, people used to work in apalling conditions, and nearly everybody smoked and drove under the influence of alchohol before the law was tightened up, and no "Political Correctness".

 

 

 

 

Canned Heat were headliners and bands like the Allman Brothers and the Doors were opening acts for them. Everyone knew that Blind Owl Wilson was the greatest harmonica player around. As I grew older and pursued guitar instruction for a part time living, Kids were mis-informed and could not conceive how the artists I mentioned above were during the 60's, big as sliced bread. The usual suspects like Clapton, the Dead, Hendrix and Joplin were the extent of a child's vision into the 60's music culture. The music industry closed doors on about half of the greats from the 60's. It wasn't the artists fault by any means. It was a business decision made by executives puffing on their fat cigars and relaxing in their office lounge chairs.

 

This is why kids today look at you like your flippin' nuts when you mention names other than the usual suspects Many kids will do the research and discover the hidden truth but, will never visualize clearly how popular these artists really were. As I said before, these artists were discussed at every hippie gathering. As the style of wording or expression in journalists articles is often subtle and not revealing and to the point anyway. It was music that reached all hippies and not a selective few who were underground freaks. They have got it all wrong. The representation of the 60's is often misleading in this way.

 

I remember everytime I asked my dad to drive me to the record store to purchase "Chicago Transit Authority" it would be sold out. I mean, Chicago became a huge success in top 40 but, do people in today's society really think of that first album as a popular item in the 60's? The answer is a definite no. It is not thought to be in the same boat with releases like Cream's Wheels of Fire or The Doors self titled. Overall it is not. Listening to Paul Butterfield and Canned Heat was just as common as listening to the Beatles White Album in 1968. Think of all the red tape you would have to plough through to get that concept written in stone today. Simple analogy is that the industry's version of what the hippie people loved is quite false and in reality is a lie. The wall is so thick that no matter how many books you wrote on the subject, you will never reach that many people again. The irony of the situation is that the x-revolutionists created a new society of their own which was 10 times worse than the one that they rebelled against in 1969. .