Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64184 Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 13:06 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: My new little projectPosted By: The Pessimist
Subject: My new little project
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 18:56
Call it what you will, but as far as I see it it's jazzy IDM with a few breakcore elements. Enjoy, opinions, download, whatever.
All written and produced by yours truly
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Replies: Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 19:43
Hey, is your last name Podraza or Kibble?
Later edit: Oh I see, it's neither of them
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 19:59
Hey, that was good. I liked it
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 20:18
My full name is actually Alekzander Podraza
The truth is out
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 20:19
So then who's Alex Marshal?
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 20:21
I go by many names
Nah, it's a story of marriage and whatnot, who I was loyal to and all that jazz...
My original surname is Podraza (Polish in case you are wondering)
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 08:53
I thought IDM was Industrial Death Metal so this was a bit of a suprise. What does that stand for?
I like this...is this all programmed on a single keyboard or do you have a recording platform where you can mix and effect independent tracks? A little independent EQing would really help this, but that's my engineer's ears working.
Overall, this is quite good, I like that it's busy. Some groove, some complexity, very good chops.
Nice job.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 09:05
Intelligent Dance Music
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 11:03
Negoba wrote:
I thought IDM was Industrial Death Metal so this was a bit of a suprise. What does that stand for?
I like this...is this all programmed on a single keyboard or do you have a recording platform where you can mix and effect independent tracks? A little independent EQing would really help this, but that's my engineer's ears working.
Overall, this is quite good, I like that it's busy. Some groove, some complexity, very good chops.
Nice job.
Thanks man
Well I'll let you know what I did...
I used FL Studio 9 for the drum loops. I picked off various cymbal and drum sounds from a few drum solos in my music collection, as well as using the infamous "Amen Break" in parts, and mashed them together to create a drum track.
For the synths and piano (the bass is actually a synth bass) I just DI'd my Roland FP-1, Korg Triton and Microkorg into a mixer and mini-jack-phono'd the mixer to the lineout on my computer. Everything you hear there is keyboard parts layered over a single drum line. I mixed it all with Cubase SX 3 (a top program I must say).
Considering you know your sh*t on production, any constructive pointers you can give me on EQing and whatnot would be very much welcome
And yes, IDM stands for Intelligent Dance Music
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 11:13
Cubase allows you to individually EQ each track. It sounds like you're using loops so you can't individually EQ the individual drums and they also sound like they have a pre-applied reverb.
But the basic idea is that each instrument or element has its own place in the EQ spectrum. Mixes get busy when instruments are too much in the same EQ space. What that practically means is cutting a little bass out of the non-bass instruments, and finding the frequecies that really are most important to a track and either boosting those or cutting the rest (just a little). You end up not necessarily making each track sound it's best solo'd but occupying its own space. (Reverb and panning are also used for this.)
Although acoustic guitars are classically hard to EQ, you'll notice that most recorded acoustic have alot of low and sometimes low mid cut out of them. There place is in the high mid section. This is NOT what you're used to listening to when you sit with your acoustic.
Let me listen to your mix again and I'll give some specifics.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 11:21
Ok, listening now.
First off, everything (especially the drums) seems gated pretty hard. The drums are eating alot of EQ space. They really need mainly a little of EQ for cymbals, maybe a little boost in the bass, and then some mid cut to allow the keys to come through a little more clearly. The bass also can be confined to a narrower frequency range.
Finally, do you use compression on your master? This can and has been badly overdone but a little really is the proverbial "Good" button. You might experiment a little with a master reverb, again very mild.
There are four "effects" used for good mixing...Panning, EQ, Compression, and Reverb. Along with your actual levels. Getting used to using these will really make your mixes sound less home-made.
Your playing and composition is great...this is just technical garbage.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 11:41
OK, all taken in
Now I won't apply all of this to the track in question too soon, because if I'm truthful, I'm sick of hearing it in a week though, definitely I'll dig up this thread once again and have another try with the production.
And yeah, I did use a fair bit of compression. I'll cut it down if necessary?
One thing I'd like to know is the general rules on Reverb. That's always been a grey area for me and no-one has ever really talked to me about it. I know so far that Reverb basically determines how far back in the mix it falls, but the ins and outs of it I have no clue. The Reverb VST I'm using at the moment is Ambience, if that helps at all.
I will be recording another song shortly, so I'll definitely apply all these tips to it
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 15:38
Very nice!
Posted By: AbrahamSapien
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 13:41
Seriously. The way, this sounds ic completely new to me, but I love it. Soo jazzy and groovy ... The riffs are mind blowing, solo is orgasmic ... Prog on, man.
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 14:09
Exciting song Alex.
------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives
https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 14:28
Cheers guys
Feel free to download it through the link if you enjoy enough. It is entirely free, no malware or anything and is 192mp/s (i think). When the EP is complete I'll put that up for download as well. Spread the word
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: blyons147
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 14:55
you should download addictive drums
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 15:26
Great work, Alex.
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 15:45
The way I was taught to envision a mix is to envision a stage in front of you. Certain elements typically belong in the center, usually lead vocals, bass, snare, and bass drums. Then other pieces can be panned to spread out things and add room. To push something back in the mix you add reverb, to bring it forward you add compression. Since compression also evens out the volume which can be a good thing, sometime you need to add reverb just to balance the sense of being right in your face that also comes from compression.
The big thing with reverb is balance. You don't one instrument sounding like it's in a huge hall and other one right in front of your face in a closet. When you think of reverb as an effect, it's easy to do this. Having big ringing guitars and really dry centered elements. There's a little bit of that going on in your mix.
The other things is a gate which is what chops off the low volume elements. The drums in this mix are gated really hard, meaning that you hear them stop almost artificially. It sounds cool, but for something to sound natural, it needs some bit of trail as the sound dies off.
Maybe that will help a little. Just experiment with the ideas and you'll find what you like.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 09 2010 at 16:27
^ regarding this and Jay's comments on EQ earlier - I tend to imagine this frequency spectrum as height in the virtual stage (low to high), so when i picture the stage before me, not only can I position each instrument in its rightful place on the stage, I can place each on it's own vertical plane - this means I envisage each one in its own 2-dimension space before me
------------- What?
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 10 2010 at 12:11
Thanks for the help guys
I'm currently recording the next song, and I will definitely keep these points in mind whilst producing it. So far I've taken the EQ and compression advice into full sqing (i.e. not to much compression and to appreciate an instruments place in the frequency spectrum) and it works a charm. I knew OF these things before, but not in as much detail. Thanks once again
Despite production, what does everyone think of the composition itself?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 11 2010 at 11:15
I thought it was brilliant! Wasn't quite sure what I was EXPECTING to hear, but goddam, that was some tasty, tasty stuff! I wish it had continued on! lol.
Very nice work!
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 11 2010 at 11:30
I really like this. I love the extended chords, the groove is good. Kept me interested for the full length of the song. It did take a little to long to get to the groove, a slow start. Other than that I really enjoyed it.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 11 2010 at 13:35
Thanks fellas
I'm currently working on a second slower song, more along the lines of a ballad than anything really but still pretty heavy and electronic. With mellotron as well, so you can all look forward to that I feel
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 08:27
Really dig the song man, great work.
Keyboards are definitely dominating the mix too much though. Snares sound quite small (referring more so to the "normal" sounding snare here). Turn down the keys slightly, but concentrate on bringing the snares up in the mix. One way is to use different samples on different tracks and process each track differently (it's what I've been doing a fair bit). If you're not down and dirty with parallel compression yet, read about it when you get the chance, because that really helps too.
Do you use saturation plug ins yet? I ALWAYS use them without fail, because they add a nice coloration to ITB mixes (In The Box, referring to mixes done digitally entirely using digital plug ins and no outboard gear) that gives you a greater perceived volume, depth and thickness to the overall sound.
Personally, my go to saturation VST plug in is JB Ferox, which is free and can be found here:
Strap one instance across all your mix tracks. Set the saturation levels to perhaps around 20-30 per cent. If you're working with distorted guitars you can get away with more, but with drums you're more aiming for a nice, relatively transparent level of coloration rather than full blown saturation. Hysteresis set fairly low. Bear in mind JB Ferox is intended for mix bus use and not master bus use. There are some good saturation plug ins for master bus use, but they generally are commercial products.
Another nifty little plug in you can use for snares is this (and you can also use it on the master bus):
Just allows you to increase the level of snares while making sure your face isn't torn off with extreme transient levels (hence the name, GClip, which effectively clips transients). Another plug in, totally free, that I use on all my mixes.
Do a bit of a boost of 250Hz on the snare will help too. Too much will sound woofy, so be careful. Find the frequencies which enhance attack and boost them too (maybe around 2-3KHz or so) High pass those cymbals if you haven't already. Although the bulk of their energy is concentrated in the higher frequencies, it helps to remove anything below about 300-500Hz anyway, just to clear the way for the low lower mid based elements of the mix.
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 11:15
Thanks for the help as usual Harry
You're a bit of a dark horse with production, but I always had my suspicions
Glad you like the song also.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 11:39
Ahh, realized I left an entire word out of my post just before and I forgot to make the links instant URL-able-ness, so fixed that too :P Since I stopped posting in the Shred Room some 7 or so months ago and got some DAW Software and an audio interface, I've been pretty much just been reading about mixing a whole lot and of course applying what I've learn to the actual audio itself. On the audio engineering forums, I tend to just spend more time reading the posts of the knowledgeable people, rather than doing much posting of my own. I feel the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know and how much more you have to learn. It's a struggle, and it's frustrating at times, but each time you hear your results improve it's quite rewarding
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 14:42
Haha yeah
As the Buddhist philosophy states:
"The foolish man thinks he knows everything and the wise man knows he knows nothing"
The truth man, learning and listening is always better.
For example, just now I downloaded the saturator you linked me to, and it actually made my mix sound a whole lot better if used in the right places (and quite minimally). It's just another way of seperating the tracks I suppose?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 14:58
Nice job Alex I have a fairly similar setup as you, as I write keyboard tunes with synthy bass as well. Mine's in a more symphonic progressive rock direction with a lot of mellotron, organ, and synths. I really enjoyed the main groove on this, and I think the song was well composed and played
The only large flaw is the drum sounds, and I don't have much of a solution for that, though. I initially used different drum machine settings on my keyboards (similarly to your setup I believe), but now I actually play the drum rhythms on the keyboard manually. I basically memorized the setup, and I play the drums myself. It doesn't sound great, but I keep trying to find new ways to make the drums sound professional. There's an drum machine I found online a while ago that worked well, but I'd rather just do them myself. Keyboard drumming is fun anyway
All in all, great job dude, and I look forward to hearing some more!
-Jeff
-------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 15:29
Really liked that, bits of it sound like a remix of something by Jimmy Smith, pretty cool.
Well done!
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: January 12 2010 at 22:59
The Pessimist wrote:
Haha yeah
As the Buddhist philosophy states:
"The foolish man thinks he knows everything and the wise man knows he knows nothing"
The truth man, learning and listening is always better.
For example, just now I downloaded the saturator you linked me to, and it actually made my mix sound a whole lot better if used in the right places (and quite minimally). It's just another way of seperating the tracks I suppose?
I'd say saturation helps more to glue together the mix tracks rather than separate them as such. At least in a metal mix (or certain styles of rock music), where you have distorted guitars/bass guitars, you lose a tiny bit of clarity using saturation, but what you lose in clarity (and the loss is minimal anyway, as I said) you make up for in having a more glued together mix that sounds larger and has more depth to it. The music you're dealing with I doubt you'd lost any clarity anyway using saturation, you're just gaining more depth and a more glued together mix. I'm hoping to get some money together eventually to get myself a commercial saturation VST plug in, but for now JB Ferox is pretty good and many people that have compared JB Ferox to the higher end commercial stuff say that JB Ferox is actually seriously good for a free plug in.
Posted By: DarioMontanino
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 00:12
I really love this man! Good Melodies good work!
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 12:00
It does a mixture of both I've noticed. The actual saturation itself glues them together, but there are certain options within the plugin that cut high and low frequencies THROUGH saturation, which is extremely beneficial. And yeah, there is the depth as well. Too much though and it sounds a bit too "tapey" if you know what i mean
And yeah, I'm saving up for a better EQ as well. On top of that a new computer would be nice as well
NEW NEWS
The new track is up. It's relatively simple compared to the last, but this time I've focused more on atmospheres and more importantly, PRODUCTION. I've taken into account all the great advice you've all given me, and although there is a whole load of other stuff I could do to the mix, I'm quite satisfied with it. And let's face it, I'm sure even the best of producers could pick at their work; we could all go on forever with mixing
I'm just uploading the song onto SoundCloud and YouTube and I'll link it here shortly
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 14:46
It's called "Elegance", and for good reason. It's a slow, melodic and atmospheric number with a bit more classical influence and some mellotron and organ work that might appeal to you guys. Check it out, the production is MUCH better on this one as I said, so please listen to my handywork
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 15:34
Well I love this one even more than the first, it reminds me of Ulver's "Blood Inside" which is a favorite of mine.
Production-wise, things are good except that the keys and the rhythm tracks feel very separate. The keys fade in and out a little obviously, and perhaps the reverbs aren't quite matched.
Overall, again, I love this composition, and it does sound better than the first.
Keep at it.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 15:50
Thanks man
I thiknk after a couple of days break I'm going to set on working on the first again. The production is kinda starting to irritate me now
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 16:01
It's called "Elegance", and for good reason. It's a slow, melodic and atmospheric number with a bit more classical influence and some mellotron and organ work that might appeal to you guys. Check it out, the production is MUCH better on this one as I said, so please listen to my handywork
Very nice.
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:00
Both tracks are now fully produced and hopefully sounding quite professional and easier on the ears. Enjoy A third track, and therefore the entire EP, is well on its way as well. It is called "Song for the Mentally Ill", quite appropriately I may say I'll post it on here in about a week's time (don't worry Micah, your project is paramount in my to do list at the moment)
1. http://soundcloud.com/alekzanderpodraza/suitcase-of-liquid-nails - Suitcase of Liquid Nails 2. http://soundcloud.com/alekzanderpodraza/elegance - Elegance
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 12:42
I think I'm with Jay on this, bro. I like 'Elegance' even better than 'Suitcase'. Really cool!