Hey guys..... there are just too many 5 stars ratings!!! I know you like your stuff, but that doesn't actually mean to always consider it A TURNING IN POPULAR MUSIC........ it has to be a REAL MASTERPIECE!!!!!

What do you think.... I think we should use 4 stars more often, even 3, that doesn't mean actually the album isn't good, just not essential...........

What about doing a ten star rating range?

10 stars... mmh, that probably would stop tons of people to give so high scores........... nice idea man..... anyway I' still working on K9....... I think he's so funny..........

Here we go again....................................

I'm asking myself: should we expect a Gaussian distribution here: with a 1 to 5 star rating, the majority of ratings at 3, a large minority at 2 and 4 and very few at 1 or 5? Or better a skewed Gaussian say peaking at 4? With the population of contributors to progarchives, I would anticipate for bands'  albums generally available, thus known about by a relatively large number of people, that there will be a balance between those who love and dislike or are neutral? However, my conclusion is that it is very difficult to find a good model to base a 5 star rating, but the one use dhere at the moment is still far from perfect.

However, I wonder about the term 'masterpiece', which originally meant a piece of work, an artefact, produced by an apprentice who had just about completed his/her articles (up to 7 years of training) to demonstrate he/she were worthy being promoted to the ranks(guild) of the master craftsmen. The piece of work was judged and called a 'masterpiece' if it merited such a distinction. As such a master craftsman effectively only  produced one 'masterpiece' and that  at the start of he/her career as a master, while subsequent pieces of work were expected to be above a minimum standard.  However, like for a lots of words time reeks changes, 'mediocre' and 'decimate' being a couple oout of 1000's to have undergone change in the last 100 years.

While there are still too many 5* ratings , the actual situation is much better than it was last year! This debate has taken place many times before but there is a bettering at least among the assigned ProgReviewers.

I agree with Dick about the majority of ratings should be three stars (my estimations is roughly 40%) with some 2 and 4* (around 20% each) and the extreme 5 , 1 and 0 * taking up the rest.

Hi Tuxon.

Very well said...i fully agree.

Tonny Larz.

tuxon wrote: It's not the raters that are the problem, it's the readers who can't interpret the provided data. I gave some albums 5 stars, for in my ears they are masterpieces. People who read my reviews, and see my ratings should be able to tell how to interpret the rating. I've read most reviews of my favourite bands and albums, as well as the reviews of my least popular bands and albums. By doing that i have seen which reviewers have a similar taste, and which have an opposite taste in music. The reviewers with a similar taste I have learnt to trust (to a degree), for generally  an unknown album with a high rating from such a reviewer within the genre we agree upon, are indeed worth listening to.

I agree. The rating system is not perfect, but it is useful. You cannot expect fans with only a limited knowledge of prog who are passionate about a few bands to rate albums as if they know which should be "essential masterpieces (in the universe of prog)" versus "good, but not essential." I for one believe that most of Yes's 70's albums are essential prog, but I realize that certain other VDGG fans or Gentle Giant buffs would scoff at such a pronouncement.

Plus I like it when someone who is passionate about an album gives it five stars because it means that this is an album that has the ability to really connect with someone, which is good to know.

If someone wants to give Styx's "Paradise Theatre" five stars, I say, right on, bro!

Hey Tuxon,

Please take my arguments as friendly instead of an attack.  In the end this doesn't really matter.  But, I do disagree somewhat.

Take the recent Chromakey reviews.  All 5 stars and the reviews themselves are all the same "Moore is a genious..blah blah blah".  This doesn't tell you anything about the content.  It doesn't explain the difference between the CDs.  He may like all them but they are not all masterpieces.  I doubt even one of them is let alone that they are all absolutely required in your collection unless that exact musical style totally floats your boat.

I would be much happier if one of those was a 5 and maybe a 4 or two then some 3s.  Then in the reviews themselves explain ...on CD....the reason I gave less stars is that song xxxxx does something thesame/goofey/blahblah so we can get a stylistic feel for the differences.  Then follow those with "I gave it a 3 for these reasons, but if you like xxxxxxxx you might give it a 4 or 5"

Then look at the Crimson Glory review and see the true folly of the existing system "Another masterpiece".  Puuulllleeeeeeeeeeze spare me.

JMCecil wrote: Hey Tuxon, Please take my arguments as friendly instead of an attack.  In the end this doesn't really matter.  But, I do disagree somewhat. Take the recent Chromakey reviews.  All 5 stars and the reviews themselves are all the same "Moore is a genious..blah blah blah".  This doesn't tell you anything about the content.  It doesn't explain the difference between the CDs.  He may like all them but they are not all masterpieces.  I doubt even one of them is let alone that they are all absolutely required in your collection unless that exact musical style totally floats your boat. I would be much happier if one of those was a 5 and maybe a 4 or two then some 3s.  Then in the reviews themselves explain ...on CD....the reason I gave less stars is that song xxxxx does something thesame/goofey/blahblah so we can get a stylistic feel for the differences.  Then follow those with "I gave it a 3 for these reasons, but if you like xxxxxxxx you might give it a 4 or 5" Then look at the Crimson Glory review and see the true folly of the existing system "Another masterpiece".  Puuulllleeeeeeeeeeze spare me.

I disagree that only one album in a band's discography is worthy of five stars. Certain bands go through stages where several albums are of extremely top notch quality (e.g., Genesis, Yes, ELP, Crimson, and many others). What's the point of trying to determine which of those is the five star one and which is four or three? That's a ludicrous exercise. If an album powerfully affects you, then it deserves to be rated among the top LPs. It's all about impact.

Well JMcecil.....anyway you see it...reality is,when you have an open forum/ reviewer site...as this brilliant site has !!!

Thats what you get...namely peoples uncensored meaning

on this or that album/music . If you want censorship....

as to how people can rate or indeed think of his and her

favourite music/band....then this site would only have -

collaborators reviews....and still, you could not have them all thinking or rating to your liking.

And that...i think is the (one of them at least)brilliant thing

with Progarchives.

Have a nice prog summer.

Heptade wrote: I'm new here, so take this as you will. I read the site every day and have for a while. A rating system only works if people use it with care, which is often not the case here. I have thousands of albums, and of those, maybe 50 or so would get five stars. What's the point otherwise? I l really love Van der Graaf Generator, almost in a fan-boyish way, but is every album worth five stars? My responsibility, if I love the band's work that much, is to decide which is their true masterpiece, give it five stars, then judge the others against that. Then other people can get some practical use out of my reviews. If someone says every album they like is a masterpiece, then I'd like to live in their universe for a while. It must be wonderful to be that easy to please.

Regarding the picking of the single best of a band's ouvre to get five stars, see my earlier post.

But regarding your comment re. someone rating every album they own as a masterpiece, that's not a realistic scenario. No one I know would say every album they own is a masterpiece, but they do have their favorites, and if they want to give them five stars, then that's fine with me and is useful to me to know that among that band's fans, this album is a very good one.

Peace.

BELVA wrote: What do you think.... I think we should use 4 stars more often, even 3, that doesn't mean actually the album isn't good, just not essential...........

What is essential for me couldn't be essential for others; i saw a lot of  5 stars given to albums i consider nothing more than trash,  but it's often a matter of taste, personal stories and memories (i.e. 4 me Yessongs is essential and Tales From Topographic Ocean is just litter).

However i think you're overall right

Many people also use the phrase "I just couldn't bring myself to give it 2 stars, 3 stars, etc. I think that ties into people only reviewing their favorite bands. It happens especially when people idolize the bands and everything they do too much to give them a proper review.

I agree completely with Floyd, My Arms Your Hearse is my definite favorite despite the rap it gets from not being prog enough. The album encompasses everything that people love about Opeth in my opinion. Sure it was done in a much heavier manner with deeper growls, but the acoustic passages in my opinion are the best Opeth has to offer. The bridges and transitions in every song are absolutely beautiful.

There was a forum topic started here titled Opeth Dilemma. My Arms Your Hearse was mine. As superb of an album that it is, the song Amen Corner is what made it 4 stars for me. The intro rubbed my the wrong way. The riff in the beginning was just a bad idea in my opinion; albeit it does become better after he bellows "White Summer". Opeth remains my favorite band in existence at this moment and I still have yet to give them a 5 star rating. This doesn't mean they're any less innovative than Pink Floyd or any other band, they just haven't released the perfect album from start to finish. My Arms Your Hearse cut it close, with the exception of the first minute or so in Amen Corner. I apologize for going on and I hope not to turn this into an Opeth Rulez adn iz Gawd! topic but I just believe in giving reviews that are truel; giving the band credit where it is needed and pointing out flaws that you saw in the album. No review should ever be a rant about how they are no longer true to their poorly produced black metal roots or how Rick sold out for giving his stage costume to support the new Harry Potter movie. Discuss the qualities that make an album an album and then discuss how it made you cry to your school counselor later.

And in case you were wondering, the only 5 star album that I have come accross so far is Dark Side of The Moon and Thick as a Brick simply because I get the goosebump feeling throughout the entirety of those albums.

I think that the many five starts ratings are great. They show that people actually love this lovely genre! =)

I am amazed ! and to read it from the only one (but me) that talked of the second era of King crimson as influenced a lot by Talking heads - what a disapointment.

I only reviewed 3 albums here. 2 of them are probably the ones I like more than any other album (nothing to hide - King crimson's Red & lizard). If I'll continue reviw albums here I probably give lower rates but we must remember - most of us do not do it for living. we concentrate in the things we like most. that's how it should be ! I do not spend hours to write about staff I dislike. I'll just ignore it. Life is too short to waste of what you dislike !

However, we have the average rate of the albums and only few rise above 4.5 . This shows you it is easy to get a fair idea of the album worth (at least the albums with over 30 ratings). Leave Gaus alone (he is dead for many years) and remember : We are dealing with the greatest music of our time which we all love (that's why we are here) and it's natural and right to love it .

I'll end with a quote (I feel it's in place here) :

The evil men do lives after them

the good is often, burried with their bones !

Hah, maybe because they like the band a lot and everything they make is 5 stars to them maybe :)

I don't understand why so many 5 stars are given. For example, I really like Symphony X's V, but I'm not going to a 5 because its one of my top 20 favorite albums.

It's even lame when the 5 stars show up for albums that have been out a week.   That's about like going "I'm giving this CD 5 stars because I hear the band worked hard on it and it is really gonna kick ass".

greenback wrote: i give plenty of 5 stars because the music i listen is fabulous. i do not listen to music like mars volta or tool; if so, my ratings would be near 0 stars!

I have no problem with someone giving either one of those two bands 5 stars for something they did even though I can't stand either one.  But do it selectively and put in some freakin reasons.  Not just Oh MY GOD THIS BAND IZ SO GOOD 

JMCecil wrote: greenback wrote: i give plenty of 5 stars because the music i listen is fabulous. i do not listen to music like mars volta or tool; if so, my ratings would be near 0 stars! I have no problem with someone giving either one of those two bands 5 stars for something they did even though I can't stand either one.  But do it selectively and put in some freakin reasons.  Not just Oh MY GOD THIS BAND IZ SO GOOD

Who? Me? if so, just take the time to read my reviews! 

Maybe some peoples just want to up the overall note of the album.

Anyway, I think that if you are to give a 0 or 5 star rating, you should obligatory give a review with over 200 words (or more/less, I don't know). Because if you give such high/low ratings, you got to have a couple of reasons...