How good is prog?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61616
Printed Date: March 06 2025 at 12:06
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Topic: How good is prog?
Posted By: Yorkie X
Subject: How good is prog?
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:15
 ?
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Replies:
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:16
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Less than but almost ten percent of my reviews are one star, so I voted accordingly.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:18
I would have chosen five percent - if available 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:19
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I've only given one item a 1-star rating, but bands like PsyOpus knocked me up to 10%. ------------- 
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:21
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10% I think is fair |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:26
| Thing is if you dont like a particular sub genre of prog that swallows up about 10% in one go let alone the bands you have heard in other prog genres that have left you cold on the odd occasion .. so I come up with a figure allowing for this for me its about 25% I`ll round it to 30% |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:29
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I'd say about 90 per cent (seriously too). It's like any genre, be it jazz, metal etc, most of the stuff is super run of the mill and boring and the other 10 per cent is gonna kick your ass. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:30
| Most of anything is crap. I'd say about 80%. |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:33
Intristing decision to give 90% crap
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Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:33
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By replacing "crap" with "bad", my answer is roughtly 25-30%. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:33
If it's crap can it really be prog? I think not. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:38
Doesn't that mean standard and generic rather than crap? -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:50
I dunno. I'm fueled by beer at the moment. |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:56
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There is some pretty bad prog out there, but I don't know much prog that's true crap. I voted 10%. ------------- 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 07:59
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No Prog is crap. I voted zero.
Dam! I forgot about Marillion and Magma! Oh well too late now I voted already.    ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 08:04
*Spits coffee on computer screen and grabs baseball bat* -------------
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 08:18
I fully agree. Way to much run of the mill stuff out there. ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:02
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Anyone who votes for anything other that 0% is talking crap, and here's why: Sturgeon's Law - "90% of everything is crud" - an oft quoted phrase that makes people feel good about liking niche genres of anything - ergo 90% of Prog is crap is toted as a get out of jail free clause. Pareto Principle - also known as the 80/20 rule - paraphrased - 80% of what people like in Prog comes from 20% of the Prog Bands.
Path of Least Resistance - application of this is two fold - 1) bands take the path of least resistance in producing music so that more people will like it and 2) fans take the path of least resistance in appreciating music - ie they listen to stuff that is similar to stuff they already like and will disregard anything that takes "effort".
The Dreaded Fourth Album Principle - each band is only allowed to produce three albums that sound similar, after that they must produce something completely different. Failure to do so will attract stagnation and lack of original ideas criticisms. Compliance ensures the complete alienation of the entire fanbase - therefore (given a 10 album career) 60% of Prog albums are crap.
The Obligatory Live Album Syndrome - Live albums cannot replicate the complexities of the studio album, so are therefore crap and those that can defeat the object of being "live" - ergo all live albums are crap (30%)
The Masterpiece Effect - another two fold effect depending on whether the masterpiece is so regarded at the time of release, or was posthumously awarded at some later date - either way the result is generally the same - all else that follows is crap.
The Magnus Opus Postulate - a little known phenomena that is an extrapolation of observations regarding Masterpieces, in that once having produced the Magnus Opus, all other works pale by comparison (including those released before the MO) and are thus "crap"
The Unrealistic Expectation Effect - having produced a masterpiece, the follow-up is generally a disappointing anti-climax, and is thus "crap"
Parsimony or (Occam's Razor paraphrased) - once you've eliminated/collected/heard all the stuff you do like, everything else is stuff you don't like, so must be crap. Assuming that the average (Prog fan) CD collection is around 4,000 albums then the remaining 20,000 albums in the database are crap - ie 80%
then we have a few localised forum specific principles:
1989 Principle - if everything you like was recorded before a specific arbitrary date, then everything recorded after said date is crap. (actual figures unknown - too tedious to calculate - let's assume 50%)
The Knucklehead Principle - if it's metal then it's crap and since metal accounts for ~18% of the bands listed, then 20% of Prog must be crap.
The Only True Genre Principle - if all the bands you like are in one subgenre, then all other subgenres are crap. (actual figures unknown - it depends on the subgenre(s) involved - let's assume 18 full-prog subgenres and an equal distribution - so ~95% are crap)
The 1337 Principle - boils down to anything simple and accessible is crap - applies to 70% of everything.
...so if you put all those values into a spreadsheet, go and make a cup of coffee, then finally give up trying to make sense of it all and make a wild stab at the result the undeniable conclusion would be that 100% of Prog is crap since all these factors are mutually inclusive. A result which is patently false since you evidently like some Prog. So there must be some form of natural logarithm involved, (since they are inherently part of any viable formula) and possibly an inverse square law since that is a natural consequence of applying calculus to any predictable phenomena, and that given the bias demographic involved in collating this data then Kurtosis risk will indubitably produce a skewed distribution the results are more likely to be the diametric opposite of any rational estimate, so the answer is 0%.
QED
 /edit: Damn -- I failed to take into account the Marillion Contingency and Magma Mythology.
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:03
I wholeheartedly agree, too. Voted for 90%...One science-fiction writer (forgot which one) said, in defense of Sci-Fi as a literature art form: "95% of science fiction is crap, but 95% of anything is crap as well." ------------- |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:12
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It's all dreadful, apart from ELP who are a musical abomination, in a class all of their own...
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:14
Theodore Sturgeon (see my previous post) ------------- What? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:44
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I voted for 90 % of prog is crap. Even the remaining 10% is saved mainly by the musicianship and compositional talent displayed. I think Prog suffers from the same fate as the 'progam' music you also find in the classical realm i.e. both attempt to communicate something outside itself. Guess it has to be best enjoyed for what it is: entertainment, a distraction, thinking man's razzmatazz etc It's when we all start to believe the risible drivel of the concepts/lyrics on offer that it stops being fun or loveable. Therein lies the seed from which the jungle rises up when all we wanted was a nice stripey lawn to catch some sun.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:44
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I went with about 30%. There are a couple of genres that I just haven't had much luck with. Unlike some previous posters I tend to like most things that I have heard within our hallowed halls, and can even find some good amongst the crap that I have heard. ------------- 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:46
| I voted 70%, difinin crap as music I wouldn't want to hear more then 10 minutes long per year. I don't like most of the metalprog which seems to be the lot. I also dislike the wannabe symfo bands with no progression at all who use midi to record their whole album. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 09:54
This is all crap. Or, at least 90% of it. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 10:00
^  absolutely - well spotted Alex ------------- What? |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 10:04
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After weighing myself before and after a trip to the loo, I conclude that one crap is about 2 lbs. Since it takes about 3 craps for food to go through (corn being the scientific helper here) I conclude that I am 6 lbs crap. Since I weight approximately 150 lb. I am (long time transpires as I try to do simple math) 4% crap. Since I am a such a nice guy, I assume all things are neither more or less crappy than I. Therefore all things are 4% crap, including prog. I will pick option 2 as the closest approximation. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: UpsideDown Ocean
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 10:23
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i's say that a band who tries to MAKE and BE prog by writing song full of clichés and odd signature times and virtuosisms just to be called prog is crap...
all prog that comes from the heart can be good or bad, but never crap ------------- I always liked to talk to people I don't know...with them I feel safe and sane... (Italo Svevo, Zeno's Conscience) |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 10:36
Ah the dialectic of pooh is a slippery demon to be sure, and ripe for such an empirical approach Jay. Thing is old Descartes (and maybe some folks round here) might have had a splinter in his sphincter or a stinger in his ringer when he wrote: I think I will blame that curry, therefore I am going to put the toilet rolls in the fridge. Problem: Cartesian refrigerators: are they an anachronism ? Did Holland have Indian takeaways in the 17th Century ? Do any of the Brothers Grim round here have a sliver of humour in their soul ? (or is this just 'noise' that can be filtered from our results ?) -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 10:46
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I'll pass on the splinters in the sphincter. I'm adventurous but not that adventurous.
Now I'm going to spend the rest of my week trying to parse the last series of questions. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 11:10
We have a bokononist here!! ...and we can flip the coin of Dean's brilliant gedankenexperiment above with reverse parameters such are: "I know other prog fans are witty, intelligent and imaginative just like me hence it's not crap, I just don't get it" "I thought it was crap at first and it took a lot of time before finally growing on me" ..and any other point you can elaborate. Therefore, no prog is crap. Or at least 90% of it is not. This paradox is dangerously approaching the topics of contemporary philosophy, so I'll shut up now. ------------- |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 12:07
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About 50% is crap. I try new bands via the free streams on site and a lot make me wonder why they bother. Martin Orford was right in his interview when he points out that record companies used to filter out the crap and stop it ever getting out. But for all the garbage, there's some wonderful stuff as well. Phideaux is my latest discovery on the site and has even prised IQ off my playlist temporarily. Chupacabras is one of the best epics ever. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 12:16
This had me stumped but good old Wiki comes to the rescue: Bokononism is the fictional religion practiced by many of the characters in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cats Cradle (which I ain't read )-------------
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 12:46
| What era are we talking about? Where is it from? What genre of prog? |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 14:06
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I wouldent say crap, but about 20-25% of the prog i get my ear's on is not very interesting.
Think that goes no matter what sub genre. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 15:21
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I would say about 80% is crap. Let's say we each have 100 bands we worship. Now put that out of the 4,662 bands on PA. Sure there are so many great bands we haven't discovered, but there are so many Dream Theater, Genesis, and Yes clones out there that really there isn't a ton of great stuff.
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 15:41
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No prog is crap, same as no music is crap. No music is good either. It's all opinionated whether something in art is good or bad. In my opinion though? Of what I've heard? 70% probably. 2/3.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 16:06
| I think it's higher than 30%, but less than 70%. So if I average that i get 50%. Completely unscientific, and probably wrong, but I'll go with it. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 17:24
1980's only. Prague Indo Prog/Raga Rock  But anyway, a while ago I would've said 90% but I like just chilling to a lot of the random prog on here now. Maybe 20% is crap, whereas a lot is just ok. Only about 5% is really masterful.
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Posted By: SMSM
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:29
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Depends on what is defined as prog. A number of prog bands in the 1980's were crap because the record companies forced them to record bland new wave pop by rejecting any prog material. Some prog bands totally sold out and played/play crap in order to get radio airplay that was/is only playing pop.
Some crap music defined by the mainstream media as prog because it contains maybe a fourth chord, or has a tempo change.
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 22:16
I find this to be a bunch of crap. The other 90% of your post makes sense though.
 I think I'll vote around 70%, because I imagine there are tons of crappy clones out there. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 17:34
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Any creative attempt at making music to me is great, and most prog is creative so... ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Telinstryata
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 19:28
| I'd say 80% is excellent. 10% is crap, and the other 10% is random noise that some artists put on their albums to take up space. |
Posted By: XunknownX
Date Posted: October 05 2009 at 22:00
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 05 2009 at 23:16
I imagine he's here for that ten percent, which, incidentally, is a helluva lot of ass kickin' music. |
Posted By: HeroOfYesterday
Date Posted: October 06 2009 at 08:50
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I'd say about 10%. It might not be 'crap' but there is some bands that I could just not get into. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/HeroOfYesterday |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 06 2009 at 08:58
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I voted over 60°, because in today's new wave of prog groups it's probably less than 10% of decent stuff, the rest being crap
In the last years, I've had a real problem finding 10 albums to make up a top yearly 10 list on PA. I think in two cases, I only submitted 5 or 6..... when even the 5 th probably not even finding a spot in a list dating from 97 or 98. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 06 2009 at 10:50
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I went with 40% as even the most derivative stuff on here can be very good if done well and I still hold hope of finding something I like from genres I've had no luck with so far. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: October 06 2009 at 11:14
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Well if there's something classified as prog that I don't like, it obviously isn't prog so I guess that means none of prog is crap. ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: guitargods2009
Date Posted: October 07 2009 at 02:49
2 people so far voted that "All prog is crap" in this poll. Makes me wonder what they're doing here on PA. 
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: October 07 2009 at 02:52
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Since modern stuff keeps getting churned out, the proportion of crap will increase and the proportion of quality material from the olden days will become an ever-smaller part of the prog pie. I weep because of this tragedy. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: October 07 2009 at 17:27
Yeah 10% of prog probably represents thousands of bands still. With that theory I should of voted lower. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: October 07 2009 at 18:31
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I voted 50%, but I think it's a little higher, how high I can't guess but I'm just working on the algorithm that any good band will be imitated. Usually the first round imitators are still good, but any round after that isn't worth listening to unless there's something else going on. At any rate, just judging the original prog (symphonic), I'd say it's a lot more than 50% that's crap, it just seems better than it is because the good bands are the ones that are constantly remembered. |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: October 09 2009 at 16:13
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If Radiohead and Dredg are Prog... then not all prog can be good... I find very subjective this poll... and at the end... I seriously doubt someone could ever know all the prog bands that exists... so is kind of a waste of time... really... ------------- |
Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: October 10 2009 at 08:49
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well for me its 30%..
------------- The planet is fine the people are f**ked. -George Carlin- |