Ayn Rand
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Topic: Ayn Rand
Posted By: The Quiet One
Subject: Ayn Rand
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 18:14
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I'm intrigued to read one of her works but I'm undecided to which one first. Besides voting, if you can add a brief explanation why you voted that, that would be really helpful |
Replies:
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 18:16
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I've read all 4 of her official books multiple times, and I typically tell people to read The Fountainhead first. As to these two options... it's tough to say. It depends on what you're looking for. Because Anthem is 1,000 pages less than Atlas Shrugged, the depth of both books varies quite a bit. Atlas Shrugged is better book, in my opinion (being the 2nd best book ever, losing barely to The Fountainhead)---but Anthem is a very, very good read as well. Get both. ------------- 
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 19:15
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I predict that this thread will be filled with calm, reasoned discussion, and that absolutely no fights will break out.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 19:39
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The Communist Manifesto. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 21:52
| ...... |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:02
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I liked Anathem by Neal Stephenson. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:10
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Pablo, I cast the first vote. It was in favor of Anthem. The reasoning is twofold: 1) Anthem takes an hour or two, while Atlas Shrugged takes about ten days. 2) Anthem is a concise version of Rand's view, while Atlas Shrugged is long as f**k. THAT SAID.... If you WANT something good and long to read, go for the big book. However, Rand writes really crappy sex scenes, so there.  Hope this helps buddy. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:18
Thanks  So, what you mean is, Anthem is a brief "version" of Atlas Shrugged ? Or something like that ? |
Epignosis wrote:Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:24
"Anthem" is a "basic version." Truth is, none of Rand's novels do a good job succinctly explaining her philosophy (The Fountainhead comes the closest). She was honestly not a good writer in terms of literature. If you want the WHOLE deal, get Atlas Shrugged. Then read The Fountainhead. 2000 pages later you will be a master of her philosophy (especially since 75 page or so of Atlas Shrugged is one man's speech). ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:25
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I guess I should say that Anthem is Sci-Fi, whereas Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are more or less realistic fiction (the latter more so than the former).
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:26
 She's not a good writer, then ? IForget about her philosophy, is Anthem or Atlas Shrugged fun or entertaining to read, like say 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World ? |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:32
Basically, no. Great mind. sh*tty writer. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:32
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She is a very "blocky" writer. She is one of those writers who can take up pages trying to describe something. It's like an engineer trying to write a novel; very technical and no passion. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:37
Excellent description. For a woman who desired economy in government, she had no economy of words. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:40
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^hmm, thanks for that, I'll take that in mind... A definite 'no' for Atlas Shrugged then.... Anthem might take a chance, since it's short... |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:49
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I tried Atlas once and admit I couldn't finish it. Didn't have that kind of patience in my 20s. I could try again now but I don't care to.
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:50
Well, I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead for one high school class. I am glad I did in retrospect... ...but go to Athem first. If that interests you in the least, hit up one of the others. EDIT: The "others" aren't that bad, just long as hell. Rand just isn't the best writer of fiction, that's all. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:53
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And I'll tell you this Pablo... Want a magnificent work of fiction with meaning? A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving. If you don't have that book and can't get it easily, PM me your address, and I'll buy and mail you a copy of it. It's a bit long (and has some diversions on American politics of the 1980s), but the last four pages made me quit writing for MONTHS). ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 26 2009 at 22:59
Thanks, will try to find it. Seems pretty interesting from what I'm reading on Wikipedia. |
Posted By: SouthSideoftheSky
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 05:58
Exactly my experience and sentiments too!
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 07:50
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I voted for Attlas shrugged. Before I give the reasons for that I must say that I read her books at the age of 15 and this is the right age for her books. She writes as it's all black or white and in older ages we find it a bit childish.
However, Anthem is a book that is so dedicated to the ideas that it "forgets" to tell a story. Attlas shrugged is indeed a very long book but it is easy reading (except that 75 page speach which is also not that hard) and a much more enjoyable book.
I agree that the sex scenes are very far from porn but her attitude to sex was very liberal for her time and she dared let her heroine have sex without marriage to more than one guy so that's a fine part for me.
To make you more curious, one of the best part of the book with high intimicy is when she get slapped by her boyfriend (wanna know why ? read the book). ------------- omri |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 08:43
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Pablo, for what it's worth--I entirely disagree with the sentiments expressed on the previous page. She is my favorite author of all time and I absolutely loved reading her books; they've very enjoyable at a surface level and also at a deeper analytical level. -------------
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 09:29
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 12:43
This is something I totally second. Atlas Shrugged was okay, but reading it became too much of a chore for me to finish. However I did read Atlas Shrugged on the beach in front of a building called The Fountainhead. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 15:35
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I think I should try reading some of her work, but I don't want to buy a book that I'll never finish. I don't have a problem reading long books, I have a problem reading long books that I don't find interesting. So I am guessing I shouldn't start with Atlas Shrugged? While we are talking about long books, I once tried reading Moby Dick in middle school, I don't know if it was abridged or not, but either way, I never finished it. I think that it was just a matter of me being to young to understand it though. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 20:18
Moby Dick is a short story. Just take out all the encyclopedic information on whales and whaling and that's all that's left. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 21:43
The encyclopedic information is what makes it unsuitable for 12 year olds.  But now I sometimes like to read Wikipedia, so I might find that more interesting now. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 23:18
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She's a moron and probably the devil too. I wouldn't recommend reading anything she's written. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 23:19
I AM NOT SO SURE UR BEING HONEST.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: September 27 2009 at 23:43
This is correct. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 28 2009 at 01:04
This is correct ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 28 2009 at 07:50
"A Squeeze of the Hand"   ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: September 28 2009 at 09:33
The only logical response in this thread. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 28 2009 at 19:01
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: September 28 2009 at 20:22
 ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:03
Got today Anthem, and so far so good: finding similarities to The Giver, and with the lyrics from 2112
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:26
If you're happy with it, get the Fountainhead. Then get Atlas Shrugged. Then get We the Living. -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:34
Probably will buy the shortest of those, if I liked pretty much Anthem  I mean, long books have to be really good, and with a brief conversation with my dad he said that Atlas Shrugged is considered to be the 'bible' of the liberal/right-wing, or something like that if I'm not mistaken. (not that it affects much of it, though, just a comment ) |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:39
That's a common generalized comment. I nonetheless recommend the order I told you, partially for that reason. We the Living is technically the shortest and I really enjoy it, but I simply can't recommend it before the other two. They're much more essential. -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 19:43
Yeah, I know, that's what he said Just that I didn't know...My, no-doubt, next purchase will be 'We' by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Zamyatin - Yevgeny Zamyatin though, been planning to get it some time from now... |
Posted By: splyu
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:15
Since when is that the same thing though. Liberal yes, right wing, I don't see it. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:17
I don't know, I'm 15 and barely know something about politics, just repeating as a parrot. |
Posted By: splyu
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:20
| That's fine, I just mean I've seen her accused of being "right wing" countless times, and from the three books I read, I just don't see it at all and don't understand where this opinion comes from. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:25
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Ayn Rand is a repetitive, extremely biased and bitter writer. She's not particularly interesting on any level. Fear/misunderstanding/lies of/about socialism and so silly I couldn't accept any of her points as valid. A caricature of politics and penmanship. So blind, so prejudiced. But an "educational" read. That's my view. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:26
I don't know, my father just told me that, that she were more in the side of Reagan(spelling?) and other of the like. Again just repeating like a parrot. However, take in mind my father didn't read any books from her as far as I'm concerned, this is probably a general conseus which most seem to repeat like parrots |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:29
That's your grown-up view, how about your teenage view I mean, now I started to get most of the criticism she had in this thread, not that you're wrong or that isn't what I asked for, but I should have probably just asked which book to start with and that's it. This author's appeal to the rest seems to depend on the age and personal views about politics/philosophy/what-not, something I was not looking for. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 20:30
| OK. Read Atlas Shrugged. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 21:23
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Read Anthem seriously. Why waste your time with a book 12x longer than Anthem before you know if you'll like her style which can be a little long-winded and preachy. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 21:51
| Yeah, I would try Anthem first to see if you like her style. As far as her shorter works go, I enjoyed We the Living a bit more than Anthem. While she was equally wrapped up in her philosophies in both books I just feel like We the Living also had a better story. |
Posted By: Plankowner
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 21:55
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"Who is John Galt?"
Personally I think everyone should read "Atlas Shrugged," but maybe not as a teenager, experience politics a bit first.. Take it out during college while on summer break..
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 22:20
You are 100% correct sir. On that note: read, NONE of them first! |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 03:59
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The idea that if you don't agree with something it must be worthlless is not very wise !
I advise all of us to read other thoughts than their owns and check these ideas.
It's easy to say something like "She's facist, therefore all she made is crap" but this makes you like any other fanat that is willing to kill everyone not belonging to his group.
If you areconfident with what you are than being exposed to different thoughts and ideas can only enrich your mind.
Ayn Rand is one of the most aggressive supporters in capitalism with no balances. The more I grow up the more I believe in balances and regulations and I hope never to live in a place based exactly on her ideas. Still she rases some very interesting points to think about.
And this (as Snow dog knows) comes from a person who was raised in the most communistic culture ever existed. ------------- omri |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 11:53
It's not that I dislike her work because I disagree with her politics, it's that she thinks I'm a bad person because I disagree with her politics. I have not read Anthem, but I have read Atlas Shrugged and it turned me off from everything else... but in that story everything is very black and white. There are main characters who are the paragons of Objectivism, and every other character is written one-dimensionally as a whiny, bitter object of our heroine's disdain.
Not to give too much away, but there is a point where she spends a very long few pages describing the deaths of a bunch of innocent people, and details why they deserve to die for their "socialist" crimes.
Also, historically, for someone who seemed so anti-government, she was very cooperative with the HUAC during the 1950s. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 12:16
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If you want an awesome American author who has a political theme to his novels, check out Sinclair Lewis. Not only is he one of my favorite novelists, but there's a guy who turned down the Pulitzer prize because he considered it a piece of sh*t award. He also is the first American to win the Nobel prize in literature. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 30 2009 at 12:17
That's because perhaps even stronger than her Objectivist views was her virulent anti-communism. |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 07:58
If you check my first post on this thread you will see that I said that she describes everything as black and white and I find it childish. However, I think it should be read at least as "food for thought". What I'm trying to say is that we should check everything and then decide what suites us and not rejecting anything without being exposed to it.
I am quite far from pure capitalism but that's partialy because I read and thought about Ayn Rand's books (among others). ------------- omri |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 08:02
If wer'e in the game of recomending American writers than I recomend Wiliam Falkner (especially "Abshalom Abshalom" and "Light in august"). I'm not sure if he got the Nobel prize before or after Mr. Lewis but he sure deserved it. ------------- omri |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 08:12
mmm....euphoria...also makes me want a mint julep! And Lewis was the first ever. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 16:50
| I JUST FINISHED ANTHEM |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 16:56
Took you long enough. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: October 02 2009 at 23:17
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