Symphonic vs Eclectic.
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Topic: Symphonic vs Eclectic.
Posted By: Zargus
Subject: Symphonic vs Eclectic.
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:22
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I tought this culd be intresting to see, since we all know symphonic is the bigest and most beloved prog genre but are the 3 bigest sympho band realy more popular then the 3 biggest Eclectic bands?
I whuld gues they are but lets see. My self i like the eclectic band more think they are more intresting and chalanging and i listen to em more, What do you guys think?
This is my first poll ever so i apoligies if i do something wrong, its yust for fun.  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:25
| Eclectic for sure. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:26
I'd take just Tales from Topographic Oceans over King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator, and Gentle Giant. 
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:28
| What are your favourite bands in Eclectic, Robert? |
Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:32
| I prefer the first trio of bands (Symphonic), but prefer King Crimson over all bands listed above in both categories. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:36
I hate Eclectic prog. I don't even know why I'm on the team.   Joking aside...I do love Gentle Giant- I've rated several of their albums with five stars. I also like King Crimson (in my opinion, this is the definitive Eclectic band), but I've never rated one of their albums a five. Van der Graaf Generator...meh...I have to be in the mood, and even then, I only like a few albums. As far as other bands go, I love The Gourishankar and The Tangent. I also just got the new SBB (my first experience with that group), and I really enjoy it. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Logan wrote:Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:41
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:44
This is true, but my preferences don't disable me from, for example, judging whether or not an artist belongs in the Eclectic prog category. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 15:45
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I'm not a big fan of Yes and ELP, though I love 70's Genesis. I really like King Crimson, and Gentle Giant really attracts me though I'm not into them very much yet. VDGG is the most unique and extraordinary band I know, and absolutely one of my all time favorites, maybe even the all time favorite. My vote obviously goes to the Eclectic bands. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:05
You're a good member of the team, and I might re-join it at some time. It's a difficult category. Sometimes things just shout out Eclectic, but often it's a very analytical process. The evaluation process is always interesting and, indeed, one doesn't need to like the music to recognise the qualities that make something suitable for Eclectic. Since it's such a mixed bag by its very nature, a team member is bound to be exposed to much music that doesn't appeal, but that does not influence whether we think something fits even if we're not enthusiastic about the job. Okay, maybe it can somewhat, but that's why there are teams -- each person bringing his/her own perspectives. Zargus, Rico tends to choose people who had a good general knowledge of Prog since one should be quite familiar with all of the categories since it's about music that combines various Prog styles without being dominated by any one of them. When I joined, it was known that I was most into the "avant" side of things, but what's been great about the team is that we are varied in musical tastes, even if they intersect, so each could bring more specialised knowledge and outlook. Oh yes, I knew you liked The Tangent, I forgot. I was impressed with their live performances, and realised that it was the production that hadn't appealed to me. King Crimson is king of PA, methinks. It's my favourite of the representatives, and Larks' Tongues in Aspic ranks amongst my favourite albums in PA. Somehow Bubu's Anabelas came closest to being my Eclectic album yardstick, but being Eclectic I guess there is no particularly definitive album. I still have some problems with Hammill's vocals at times (still love VdGG), and GG, though my favourite some years ago has palled for me over time. My favourites include Emmanuael Booz, Jean-Paul Prat, Kultivator, Gnidrolog, Ma Banlieue Flasque, and Jean-Pierre Alarcen. |
Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:06
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great and difficuly poll...
GENESIS are my all time favorite band,YES created some absolutely awesome music but I do not like ELP that much...
On the other side KING CRIMSON are a very intricate and ground-breaking band,VAN DER GRAAF are also quite good yet difficult to get into,while I absolutely love GENTLE GIANT,it's one of the most challenging bands ever!
So no vote for me...Both trios of bands are in summary equal to my ears!
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Posted By: LiquidEternity
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:15
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Eclectic. By a ridiculous amount. And it just happened that way.
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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:21
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I prefer eclectic overall, and as far as the three chosen artists from each go I prefer eclectic as well. I like GG, KC and VdGG a lot, and as far as the symph three go, I like Yes and Genesis a lot and ELP...not as much.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: poslednijat_colobar
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:25
| Symphonic prog for me! |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:36
| I would prefer just Van der Graaf Generator above Yes, ELP and Genesis together. King Crimson is a bit better then VdGG and Gentle Giant is one of the most brilliant bands that ever played. Eclectic it is! |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:42
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well i dont have as many records as i should have to judge all thies bands (lack of money) i have 3 King Crimson album In Court of the Crimson King, In wake of Poseidon and Larks Toungs in Aspicks, 3 Gentle Giant albums the self titled debut, Acuaired by Taste and Octopus, 1 Van der Graaf Generator - Pawn Haerts (stil strugles with it ), 2 Genesis albums, Selling Englan and Foxtrot, 3 Yes, Fragile, Close to the Edge anf Relayer and 3 ELP albums, Tarkus, Trilogi and Brain Salad Surgery i like best as a hole the symphonic bands better as I stil dont get VDGG, stil Gentle Giant is my favourite prog-band, and Genesis not far behind, Close to the Edge is an unmatched achivment and is uniqe album. EL&P is okey i like som songs, and other songs are funny. King Crimson are Kings of the realm of prog while the Giants are rather Gentle in there aproach to fame, but in the Begining it was Genesis and i have to say Yes to wote Symph. |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:45
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I like both put i prefer sympho. I need to listen to some eclectic prog at times to be able to appreciate my sympho.
------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:48
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Eclectic for me, by miles ------------- 
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Posted By: kitaman27
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 16:59
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Hmm for me Yes > Genesis > King Crimson > VDGG > Gentle Giant > ELP So if each place is worth a point I guess Symphonic wins 12-9 :D ------------- I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt, not that fancy store-bought dirt... I can't compete with that stuff. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:15
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I'll list all of these bands from favorite to least favorite: 1. Genesis (6 points) 2. Yes (5 points) 3. King Crimson (4 points) 4. Van der graaf Generator (3 points) 6. ELP (1 point) 6. Gentle Giant (1 point) Symphonic- 12 points Eclectic- 8 points Symphonic wins. ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:20
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1. King Crimson 3 1. Genesis 3 3. Van der Graaf Generator 4 4. Yes 3 5. Gentle Giant 2 6. ELP 1 Eclectic: 9 Symphonic: 7 I had a two way tie for first, but eclectic still won. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 17:56
| Eclectic for me since quite some time. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:08
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I can definitely call myself a sympho-nympho here, although I do like King Crimson (a lot) and Gentle Giant. I have yet to aquire the taste for Van der Graaf Generator. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:10
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Ehh, let me think..........................SYMPHONIC
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:17
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1. King Crimson 2. Gentle Giant
3. Genesis 4. Van der Graaf Generator 5. Yes 6. ELP That's my order, I guess eclectic when considering these bands, but Symphonic has U.K., and some of my favorite modern bands (Transatlantic, SB, TFK, Rocket Scientists etc.), and I think there's more from it than I like in general... but I think Zappa should be in eclectic so I dunno... in the end I never separate these bands like this in my mind, it's all prog, and it's all good music. |
Posted By: rpe9p
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:30
| This is one of the hardest polls for me to answer that ive seen in a while. I like GG and ELP a good bit, but the other four are probably my 4 favorite bands |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:31
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I may be a symph guy, but I love all those bands. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 19:44
 That makes you an eclectic guy. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:32
I can live with that. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 20:44
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I'm thinking eclectic. Bands in that category generally seem more interesting, experimental, and progressive in the literal sense. The symph ones tend to contain the more hateable elements. ------------- 
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Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 21:38
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I wish one of the choices was Genesis, King Crimson and Yes or Gentle Giant.
I love all of Genesis' with Peter Gabriel and the first two with Collins, as well as an occasional song after that.
King Crimson has been decent for the most part throughout their career except for their extreme industrial, like Thrak!, which isn't really my cup of tea.
I like ELP's first four studio albums and most of Welcome Back, but that's it. Hate what they've done since. And Van Der Graaf is hit and miss for me. With a few exceptions, I either love one of their songs or can't stand it.
I like Yes' classic albums, from the start through Relayer, a few later ones and think they still put on a great live show. But they've had some schlock as well. And Gentle Giant had a string of truly great albums as well. My favorite is the highly underrated Three Friends. ------------- PROGMATIC |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 21:38
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Not even close, "Eclectic" for me. Although i'm a huge Genesis fan. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 21:54
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Symphonic for me, but rather close. ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 22:19
 ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 17 2009 at 22:47
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God that's just too hard. In each category there's a band I'm not that crazy about (Yes and Gentle Giant respectively) Without wishing to lift a rock on another tiresome genre debate, the symphonic label attached to many of prog's giants just stubbornly refuses to adhere to the bottle. Question: Are there any so-called classic symphonic bands with a strong or pronounced blues element in their output ? If someone can illustrate that there are, then IMO the Symphonic handle could be deemed superfluous ? ------------- 
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Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 00:38
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I prefer Genesis and ELP to King Crimson, VDGG and Gentle Giant (although Gentle Giant come close), but I can't stand Yes, so I won't vote. Eclectic Prog is also eclectic in music appeal: when it's good it's breathtaking, when it's bad, it's horrible. While my favourite Symphonic bands did a considerable amount of masterpieces, it seems the genre is covering more "middle ground". No vote. ------------- |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:42
Same here - No real choice for me... Raised on YES, GENESIS and ELP 
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Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 01:43
Ooh this is a good thought experiment, and it's killing my brain. At this moment in time Genesis is my favorite of the whole lot, followed by long favorites King Crimson. Then it gets tricky. Depending on the day, it's going to be either VdGG or Yes (I don't think I ever listen to both on the same day). ELP and Gentle Giant offer the same waffle. If I could recombine the choices, then . . . Ah, nuts. Okay, today it will be eclectic. (Now if I were to vote again tomorrow . . . .) 
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Posted By: paulwalker71
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 04:35
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I'm going to plump for Symphonic But I'd take Gentle Giant any day over ELP. And maybe even VDGG over Yes. So the examples that are given don't really help me - that said, overall and historically I've been more of a Symphonic Progger... It's no surprise to me that its currently tied at 30-30 in the poll! |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 04:46
| My two favourite bands are on the eclectic side. |
Posted By: Roy-Mus
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:22
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I prefer 70's Yes, Genesis and ELP, and although I enjoy some KC (In the Court, In the Wake and Larks' Tongues), and love the classical GG (being In a Glass House my favourite), I really don't get VDGG and because of that, I voted for Symph instead of Eclectic.
------------- I am you and what I see is ME! |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 06:57
Hm. Actually, my three favourite albums. And Crimson and Der Graaf Generator are both remarkably consistent. |
Posted By: Noak
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 07:59
| Eclectic all the way. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 08:29
 No contest for me. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: The Acolyte
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:50
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This is a very goos thread indeed, a very competitive one, very good choices to each genre.
On the symph side, i like Yes and Genesis early stuff...but i had not been able to like ELP at all...it´s amazing how hard i've tried.
On the Eclectic side, VDGG and King Crimson are amongst my all-time favorites, and with Gentle Giant i am now "acquiring the taste", so for me goes Eclectic!  ------------- "…but would I leave you in this moment of your trial?" |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 09:59
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Symphonic for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: Badabing666
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 10:13
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I didn't really know any eclectic music until I joined PA and am thoroughly enjoying discovering VDGG back catalogue together with many of the newer bands of that genre. But for now given the choices above it has to be symphonic for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:03
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This was really hard for me. Genesis is one of my favorite bands ever, as is Yes and ELP. However, like someone else said, King Crimson is better than either Yes or ELP (not Geneiss though, I hold to that). VDGG and Gentle Giant are also minor favorites of mine. I love the works of Genesis, Yes, and ELP an incredible amount, but when I consider how much they changed over time, I can't help but feel that the eclectic bands win the battle. I'm on record here as defending Genesis's post-Hacket period as being incredibly valid and artistic, but there's no doubt this change lost them a ton of fans. ELP's post Work's period is remarkably awful, though even on Love Beach there is some worthwhile music. Yes's post Howe period, while still strong, is also definitely a down turn and a time of great confusion (at least Genesis stuck to the same three members, while Yes could barely keep a line up together. The fact that Yes made any good music at all in the 80's, 90's, and 2000's is a testament to their skill). The symphonic bands simply don't hold up as well as the eclectic bands over time.
King Crimson's success in adapting and remaining fresh and relevent and even groundbreaking is well documented and indeed quite incredible. VDGG has never compromised which is incredible. They've gotten a bit lighter since the beginning but you can hardly say they ever even once sold out. And Gentle Giant had such a bizarre and incredibly complex earlier career, that even their later pop efforts are worthwhile. I like Giant for a Day and Civilian way more than Interview, for example. It seems to me the eclectic bands just hold up better, so even though I do prefer Yes, Genesis, and ELP to Giant and VDGG, I have to go with the eclectic bands.
That said, I love all of these bands. ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:16
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Not an easy choice for me either, but in the end I went for Eclectic, especially on account of the mighty King Crimson. I've never been a big fan of Genesis (growing up in Seventies Italy meant seeing them treated more or less like gods, and that got on my nerves after a while), but Yes and ELP are definitely among my favourite prog bands. On the whole, if we are talking about the two subgenres and not just those two sets of bands, Eclectic wins hands down. Like many people here, I got into prog by way of Symphonic, but I've progressively (pun intended ) moved away from it.
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Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 11:28
------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 12:25
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The eclectic trio.
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Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 13:06
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These six bands are 6 of the 8 first bands with which I was introduced to prog (The Flower Kings and Jethro Tull being the other two). I instantly fell in love with Yes, ELP, Genesis and King Crimson while I was repulsed by VDGG and indifferent to Gentle Giant. After a few years I grew weary of the 3 symph bands while my love of KC increased and VDGG became one of my favorite bands. I never really gave Gentle Giant a chance and I swear I will get around to it sometime. Although without KC VDGG and GG I can only name two other bands classified as "eclectic:" Peter Hammill and The Tangent. I consider The Tangent to be more symphonic than eclectic and Peter Hammill is VDGG so my view of the sub-genre is incredibly narrow while I am far more familiar with Symphonic prog. Anyway I vote for eclectic. ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 13:11
Holy crap, ninety votes and it's a dead heat. 
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 13:22
| To see, at the moment when I'm typing this, the perfect equality of the two options is priceless. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 13:33
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I would rank the bands, VdGG > KC > Genesis > GG > Yes > ELP With a big drop off after GG. Eclectic by a good bit. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 13:53
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Yes, Genesis and Gentle Giant. So symphonic by 2:1, but ELP are not bad too - far better than KC and VDGG. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:05
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Both styles are favourites of mine, so:
NO VOTE   -------------  |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: September 18 2009 at 14:30
------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 00:06
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Though I think both VDGG and ELP have their own things going on, and I respect that, neither are among my favorites. I love GG and Genesis, but I prefer the latter because I find them more consistent. Still both are incredible bands! KC and Yes... Both are among the most important, artistic and brilliant bands of rock history, so you'd think it would be difficult to say which is better. Only if I didn't already know Yes is my favorite band! Symphonic gets my vote, but it's not like it steals this. Yes > KC > Genesis > GG > VDGG and ELP ------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 00:23
| I love all six bands but Genesis is the only I like anywhere as much as I like KC and GG, so eclectic by a mile for me. |
Posted By: dAJaro
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 01:26
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how am i supposed to vote? i'd rate those bands from top to bottom: genesis vdgg king crimson elp/yes gg guess i'll have to leave out my favorite prog band in this poll and go with KC, VDGG and GG :p ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/dAJaro/?chartstyle=basic10"> 
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Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 03:20
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1. King Crimson 2. Yes 3. VDGG 4. Genesis 5. Gentle Giant 6. ELP Sympho: 9 Eclectic: 12 ------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 17:48
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1. Yes 2. King Crimson 3. Genesis 4. Gentle Giant 5 VDGG 6. ELP Sympho: 11 Eclectic: 10 Love Symphonic and Eclectic equally much. |
Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: September 19 2009 at 17:59
I just noticed you ranked the bands the same as me! |
Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: October 09 2009 at 14:38
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The closeness of the Tales vs Brain Salad poll reminded me of this and I'm so happy to see this at a dead heat with 106 total votes.
------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: October 09 2009 at 15:19
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All prog genres are great! ALL but Symph is where it all started ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: October 09 2009 at 15:43
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^ Sorry, but it started either as Eccletic, Psychedelic or Canterbury, the jury is still out
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Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: October 09 2009 at 15:46
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Eclectic by a fair margin
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Posted By: Xanthous
Date Posted: October 11 2009 at 16:21
| I love both Eclectic and Symphonic. I love Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant and like VDGG. I've had more experience overall with Symphonic and fewer but greater moments with Eclectic. Very hard decision but I will go with Symphonic to even the vote, 58 to 58. |
Posted By: GabrielGenesis
Date Posted: October 11 2009 at 21:05
| I prefer Genesis,Yes,and Gentle Giant.So I chose symphonic. |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: October 11 2009 at 23:22
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This is a tough choice for me. Yes is very important to me, being the band that got me to say, "Wow, what is this? There has to be more music this good." Through them, I was lead down the obvious channels - Genesis, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, Rush, and from there further bands. I devoured their discography, listened to them countless times, untold bootlegs, etc... Genesis I love, but I always have felt that their albums are uneven, despite the fact that each has at least one moment that is so great as to make their whole album worthwhile. Supper's Ready and Lamb, to me, are defining moments in my love of prog. King Crimson I enjoy, but I've never quite loved them. Gentle Giant, on the other hand, I can't get enough of, even if I sometimes feel like I'm not quite grasping everything that's going on (in fact, the breathless feeling that I may reach a higher state of understanding and enjoy it more is part of what I love about them). Van Der Graaf Generator has become very important to me, though, for Pawn Hearts effected me almost the same way that Yes did, being something unique and special, having me think, "There must be more music like this." (Luckily, VDGG has many more albums, and Peter Hamill has been quite prolific in his output). But ELP ... I loved the idea of Brain Salad Surgery (what a cool album name! What cool album art! Karn Evil 9? A 35 minute song???? With a cool name???), but it just didn't click with me. I've had Tarkus and Welcome Back my Friends waiting for me to listen to them for months now, but haven't got around to it. And yet, at the end of it all, I can put on any of Yes' classic discs, and think, "Oh yeah, this is why I got into prog." And suddenly, everything else I've discovered since seems less important, for so far there hasn't quite been another Yes. If this poll was Yes and Genesis for VDGG and Gentle Giant, I'd be completely stumped. But the inclusion of ELP weakens Symphonic's role, while KC is much better in my mind. Giving eclectic the ever so slight nod to victory. |