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Sneering from a position of concealment

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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61138
Printed Date: February 24 2025 at 00:49
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Topic: Sneering from a position of concealment
Posted By: Big Ears
Subject: Sneering from a position of concealment
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 03:59
My main reason for visiting this site is for discussions or information on progressive rock. I do not like sniping (on myself or others) and feel that it can blight an otherwise superior site. We all have our moments, but it seems there are those who frequent the site for no other purpose than to score points. They contribute nothing. The last time I commented on this topic, I was told I was too vague, but to analyse individual examples is to play into these people's hands. Rule 4 is No sniping and the details tell us not to engage that member; so should not clear examples be deleted in the same way that other less innocuous postings are swiftly removed? It is not reasonable to avoid contributing for fear of being sneered at from a concealed position. On this basis, people with something to add on progressive rock do not do so and the timewasters proliferate.  



Replies:
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 05:09
I don't think that sniping is a problem on this site. Do you have any specific complaints? No need to point the finger, but your post does seem a bit vague.
 
I take it that you have a genuine complaint, but I suppose it's also possible that you feel either personally vicitmised or have witnessed exchanges that make you feel uncomfortable?


Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 05:20

We'll agree to disagree onthe first point. Both experienced and witnessed to the second. On the next occasion I encounter sniping,  I'll try to be specific without playing into the sniper's hands.  



Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 07:50
I think this is a well-moderated forum,the admins do as much as they possibly can to make this a nice place to come visit and talk about this music that we love(among other things).
 
If you see any instances of sniping or anything that you feel violates the forum rules and regulations hit the report button.Us admins receive those reports via email,and they get taken care of quickly.


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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 08:02
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

I think this is a well-moderated forum,the admins do as much as they possibly can to make this a nice place to come visit and talk about this music that we love(among other things).
 

If you see any instances of sniping or anything that you feel violates the forum rules and regulations hit the report button.Us admins receive those reports via email,and they get taken care of quickly.




Indeed they do - I've never had a problem with someone else on this forum, whereas on other forums, you'll be abused nearly daily...

This is probably the best-run forum I've ever been on, and I can't think of a member who goes out of his/her way to snipe/flame/troll others.

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Posted By: paulwalker71
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 08:16
As a long time lurker who recently de-lurked with considerable fear and trepidation, I have to say that I haven't experienced any sniping, abuse or flaming on this site - and, believe me, I looked in from the outside for a good while before I first replied to a post.

I've been a member of many internet forums, and been on the receiving end of some heavy stuff, so I think I speak from some experience when I say that generally speaking this is a well run and safe site.

That's my 2 cents anyway Smile


Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 08:24
What TheProgtologist said. Report it, it will be adressed, end of story. Quicker than generalizing the phenomenon, too.

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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 08:26
Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

We'll agree to disagree onthe first point. Both experienced and witnessed to the second. On the next occasion I encounter sniping,  I'll try to be specific without playing into the sniper's hands.  

Why don't you just visit another site if it distresses you. We are all happy here for the most partSmile

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]


Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 09:38
Originally posted by Big Ears Big Ears wrote:

We'll agree to disagree onthe first point. Both experienced and witnessed to the second. On the next occasion I encounter sniping,  I'll try to be specific without playing into the sniper's hands.  

Your ability to seek sniping can let you to be a new reporter. Cool

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http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 11:12

Wow, topic in which name I don't know 1.5 words. Sneer = look ?

Oh and to be honest, I feel good here. Non answered topics bothers me sometimes, also fact that most people visits and posts (including me) just in first section here on forum, Prog lounge, but so far, no feel of being endangered. Heh, Ricochet has eye avatar, so I suppose he's watching (or at least his avatar is). And you have total of six eyes Big Ears (are these ears those of these cats?), so that's literal meaning of having pair of eyes even on my back.

There is, however, one collaborator I'm little bit afraid of. He scares me (also a little bit).



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 11:41
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Wow, topic in which name I don't know 1.5 words. Sneer = look ?

Oh and to be honest, I feel good here. Non answered topics bothers me sometimes, also fact that most people visits and posts (including me) just in first section here on forum, Prog lounge, but so far, no feel of being endangered. Heh, Ricochet has eye avatar, so I suppose he's watching (or at least his avatar is). And you have total of six eyes Big Ears (are these ears those of these cats?), so that's literal meaning of having pair of eyes even on my back.

There is, however, one collaborator I'm little bit afraid of. He scares me (also a little bit).



Boo!  Evil Smile


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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays


Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 11:50
 
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Boo!  Evil Smile

Actually, you're third most scariest for me.

But hell (is hell scary) I have to thank you for keeping eye on grammar level. Or at least I read post by you somewhere, that you care for good language. Also your reviews are often on the same level of stars as my are. And your posts are in to-the-topic style, something I'm not able to do.And I saw your photo, it also helps. And you don't look mean.

Nope, someone else .,..



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:04
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

 
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Boo!  Evil Smile

Actually, you're third most scariest for me.

But hell (is hell scary) I have to thank you for keeping eye on grammar level. Or at least I read post by you somewhere, that you care for good language. Also your reviews are often on the same level of stars as my are. And your posts are in to-the-topic style, something I'm not able to do.And I saw your photo, it also helps. And you don't look mean.

Nope, someone else .,..

Sorry about the wedgie and stuffing you into a locker.  I won't bully you anymore.  Tongue

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:11
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

 
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Boo!  Evil Smile

Actually, you're third most scariest for me.

But hell (is hell scary) I have to thank you for keeping eye on grammar level. Or at least I read post by you somewhere, that you care for good language. Also your reviews are often on the same level of stars as my are. And your posts are in to-the-topic style, something I'm not able to do.And I saw your photo, it also helps. And you don't look mean.

Nope, someone else .,..



ME ME ME!!




I think a bigger problem on this site is the members that have seen every topic 100 times and prefer to highjack them or throw them off topic with random blurts and pictures.

http://www.nuimsu.com/files/images/side-kick-face.jpg


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:15
Please relinquish the name of this scary collab so that we may mercilessly tease him or her.  Tongue


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:17
Can't be me....I'm nice.










These days.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:18
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Please relinquish the name of this scary collab so that we may mercilessly tease him or her.  Tongue


And bragging rights Approve


Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:22

There was a line after these dots, which I deleted, to prevent revealing the truth. You are not The One (again, Babylon 5 quote), even your Boondock new avatar is good (great movie), assuming that I'm correct in that guess. And your last one was also nice.

The Doctor, you're the one who was doing this to me back in Hill Valley high school. No, I can't be mad at you 

But back to topic, sniping is bad thing, very bad thing. And hard to prove. And after all, hard to think about, when you're victim, because it's the bully, who's in charge of it, who's doing it. You're terrorized by him and this affects you. Negatively. Friend tackling and argues are normal here, there's nothing bad about playing this game with someone you know for some time and both of you want it. But .. you know. 



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:30

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

Please relinquish the name of this scary collab so that we may mercilessly tease him or her.  Tongue

Somebody pointed it out in another topic. That it has something to do with avatars. For example Snow Dog, he has pleasant avatar which greets people and say: Hello, I'm nice person. And voila, he is. But you are different. You may be, as you proved from this post (kind, use of word please, keeping playing this game and not being pedant to break it),  but you may be not. That's your trait. You are from Zeuhl team, you have this mystery dog with blue eyes (or wolf more likely, snow wolf ? or something else, my knowledge isn't in nature much) and so are you, mysterious person for me.

But not in bad way of this word. Even this More Mysterious Person Than You, about who I'm talking about is not bad. Just keeping his distance, from me at least.


So it's avatar. One guy once wrote (here in another post), that if you want to scare the people, or frighten them, choose one special avatar. One person to be exact.

hehe



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:39
Interesting topic, and a good one to discuss concerns in an impersonal manner (general perceptions).  I apologise in advance for going off on tangents, but I have a disorganised mind.

I have come across sniping at this board, as with any board I frequented.  As has been said, just use the report post button when you think you find cases of it, but be aware that what you find abusive may not be perceived as abusive by other people. If no action is taken, then you might consider PMing an admin to ask why, but better yet, I think, PM the person who you feel is being abusive so that you can share your concerns with that person in private, and hopefully discuss it that way.  I know  that I'd much rather be PMed directly about any infractions or rudeness, and would be more likely to change my course of actions than have some someone write about me.  The personal touch is considerate, though I would appreciate being privately reported to the administrators with the report post button so that any offensive posts could be removed quickly.  I know I have bad days, and it's not uncommon for me to write things that I regret later (of course such a person as me should be extra careful about minding my speech since I'm not always compos mentis). I'm already regretting writing this and feeling embarrassed.

I've also noticed this "scoring points" mentality with some, and I don't like that either. It's very difficult to have a rewarding discussion (exploration of ideas) with people when they're out to "win" and show superiority, and didactic people are a bit off a turn off for me, though I lean that way sometimes.  It's common for people to express themselves in a black or white manner rather than be willing to explore the grey areas -- thinking true or false instead of levels of validity.  I find too many judgemental, arrogant, pedantic, and sarcastic posts for my tastes, but that's been the same at every board I've belonged to (and I'm commonly guilty of coming across as obnoxious in various ways) -- others perceive things differently....


Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:42
Peter Gabriel getting Kafka'd - is that scary enough....probably not.
 
There can be only one.....and I don't think it's me.


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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: The T
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:47
Obviously, it's me TongueEvil Smile

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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:49
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

 You are from Zeuhl team, you have this mystery dog with blue eyes (or wolf more likely, snow wolf ? or something else, my knowledge isn't in nature much)


It's an arctic fox.  Smile

and so are you, mysterious person for me.

Funny, my wife told me the exact same thing this morning.  Wink



Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 12:52
I am I scary yet?
 
 
 


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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:09
Liquid eternity is kinda scary........and Epignosis.

Witch brings up a point. How does someones Avatar effect how you feel about them? Are there people you are wary of due to it? Are there those you warm too?

For me......yes and yes.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:18
Your avatar gets me kinda randy Snowie.  Makes me wanna get to know ya better.  Wink

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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:30
The two-legged race horse is kind of scary, isn't it? Wink

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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:59
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Your avatar gets me kinda randy Snowie.  Makes me wanna get to know ya better.  Wink
LOL


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Big Ears
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 14:05
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Interesting topic, and a good one to discuss concerns in an impersonal manner (general perceptions).  I apologise in advance for going off on tangents, but I have a disorganised mind.

I have come across sniping at this board, as with any board I frequented.  As has been said, just use the report post button when you think you find cases of it, but be aware that what you find abusive may not be perceived as abusive by other people. If no action is taken, then you might consider PMing an admin to ask why, but better yet, I think, PM the person who you feel is being abusive so that you can share your concerns with that person in private, and hopefully discuss it that way.  I know  that I'd much rather be PMed directly about any infractions or rudeness, and would be more likely to change my course of actions than have some someone write about me.  The personal touch is considerate, though I would appreciate being privately reported to the administrators with the report post button so that any offensive posts could be removed quickly.  I know I have bad days, and it's not uncommon for me to write things that I regret later (of course such a person as me should be extra careful about minding my speech since I'm not always compos mentis). I'm already regretting writing this and feeling embarrassed.

I've also noticed this "scoring points" mentality with some, and I don't like that either. It's very difficult to have a rewarding discussion (exploration of ideas) with people when they're out to "win" and show superiority, and didactic people are a bit off a turn off for me, though I lean that way sometimes.  It's common for people to express themselves in a black or white manner rather than be willing to explore the grey areas -- thinking true or false instead of levels of validity.  I find too many judgemental, arrogant, pedantic, and sarcastic posts for my tastes, but that's been the same at every board I've belonged to (and I'm commonly guilty of coming across as obnoxious in various ways) -- others perceive things differently....
A number of fair points.


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 14:28
It's just the doodlings of the semi-sane, but thank you, Big Ears, though I'd be more interested to hear about any potentially unfair points. LOL


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 14:39
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

There is, however, one collaborator I'm little bit afraid of. He scares me (also a little bit).



LOLClap


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 14:40
Of course he's scared to death of me... Isn't my avatar scary, and then those catsWinkLOL!

Seriously speaking, even if I have often complained about people here, this forum is HEAVEN compared to others I have seen around the web.Really anti-social behaviour I have come across on other boards would never be tolerated here. However, it is also true that there are people who have got sniping down to a fine art, and therefore are not as easy to catch as outright trolls.


Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 15:53


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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 16:05
Who's got a problem and who wants scaring?
Evil Smile


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 16:31
"Wanna see something really scary?"




Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 16:32
On a serious note, if you have a problem with a member of the Admin Team would you kindly express your grievances via Pm to another member of the team.

Thanks


Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 03:48

EDIT: OF COURSE, YOU'RE RIGHT. THIS NUMBER SOUNDED IMPOSSIBLE TO ME, SO MY BRAIN TOOK ZERO LESS NUMBER. One F-ckin million, that's insane, breath-taking and makes 577 posts per day. How ? :- O


Few things OFFT and one OT:

- The Doctor who travels in Tardis. It's very favourite in UK/US I suppose. But I never saw even one episode. Same with Twilight Zone, or Mystery Science Theater 3000. I saw something on youtube, maybe I should watch it.


-Tony, you're less scary, because I have animation turned off. But truth is that it makes this horse more visible. I assume that you're The Tony, this Tony everyone's referring at. Well, admin with 100k posts, well, that's impressive. And I almost never saw your posts, probably looking bad way, bad sections.


-as for referring at Micky is usual, he's kinda legend here too :-)


-Raff - your avatar maybe presents sinister group of people, but they're done in warm colours of blue and orange, so it pleases, rather than scares.


Quote randy

Randy
Overly excited in a sexual manner. See also horny.

oh my dear god, that's not what I want to think about :-O



-Negoba has quite scary avatar, but his new one is better. Cuteness, over horror bringing masked man



-Strange, LiqEt's avatar is not so usual, as I think about it. But because of few facts, he can't be scary for me. And Epignosis, well, this avatar makes one feel little bit respect and being


-wolf, dog and I forgot about third one, fox. My bad. And for the second response, my girlfriend is telling me this all the time, when I look her with still stare into the eyes. I like that, when I was young, I couldn't stand looking into someone's eyes, now I've mastered it. Different looks, lazy cat eyes, wild staring eyes, enigmatic ones, angry look with confrontation...


Yeah, this forum is better right from the beginning. Prog is music for thinking (even not necessarily always, but mostly), so childish behavior and majority of answers like: "lol, yea, :-D, stfu noob..." won't be reality here. In fact, I haven't heard stfu here (maybe now, jokingly will somebody use it), so it's good.

However, more intelligent people means that somebody can be evil enough to act normally in public, but doing these things in private, sniping, blaming, chasing... just possibility, nothin more. And not big chance for that though.

But it's different problem, if you have problems with long time member, who's respected, or admin/mod/collab, who are respected even more. Maybe to extent that they're untouchable. No offense, but this function is for invited and deeply scanned ones, so when you're in, you can do things that you wouldn't be able normally, just because of your authority. No talking in particular, just theoretically. 



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 04:12
MartyMcFly89, FYI I have over one MILLION posts.


Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 04:27
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

MartyMcFly89, FYI I have over one MILLION posts.

Yes........suspicious that.


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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 04:32
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

MartyMcFly89, FYI I have over one MILLION posts.

Yes........suspicious that.


Originally posted by Tony R's profile page Tony R's profile page wrote:

Account Status:     Active
Joined:     16 July 2004 at 03:12
Last Visit:     Today at 13:12
Posts:     1001044 [531.90 posts per day]


531 a day?!



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Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 09:35
Originally posted by progkidjoel progkidjoel wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:


Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

MartyMcFly89, FYI I have over one MILLION posts.

Yes........suspicious that.


Originally posted by Tony R's profile page Tony R's profile page wrote:

Account Status:     Active
Joined:     16 July 2004 at 03:12
Last Visit:     Today at 13:12
Posts:     1001044 [531.90 posts per day]


531 a day?!

More than his avatar's footprints.


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http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 09:39
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

MartyMcFly89, FYI I have over one MILLION posts.


And each and every one of them an absolute treasure, to be sure.  Tongue


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 11:20
I guess that rodents can be kinda scary for non-rodent lovers but we don't bite (just swallow whole) LOL

This lemming does suffer from the 'red mist' on occasion and I can be a tad abrasive, but only to predators and you will invariably get an apology by PM if I step 'over the cliff' Embarrassed

As for sniping on PA, it does clearly exist but I don't think it endemic and there are some contributing factors at work here:

Some posters have a polemic style (play the devil's advocate by offering provocative opinions they don't necessarily hold) - this ain't sniping in my book e.g. Micky uses this device fiendishly well Ouch

Some posters use a lot of irony (which is usually misinterpreted by being taken literally) - this ain't sniping in my book e.g. King By Tor is particularly adept at this

Hey ho, time to stalk some prey (slow moving herbivore wanted, smoker preferred)



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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:52

Lemmings can't be scary for me, because back in early 90's, when I  was discovering magical world of DOS games on dad's 486 (with I suppose 40Mhz and 16MB ?), one of games I adored the most was Lemmings.

Suicidal creatures they look like, but wikipedia says different thing, as you probably know. But myth is strong thing. For example in Czech, there is a saying "I don't think about it, I know it." Well, he has to think about it to know it, he can't be sure if he doesn't think about it. In fact, correct translation is more like "I don't think it, I know it"

but lemmings will always fall off the cliffs in minds of people. I had once guinea pig, but it died. I was sad.

I saw Epignosis defense in Indukti thread and I read all posts here, because it concerns me as well. I gave this abomination (my point of view) 2 stars, he gave 1 and gave also hell better explanation. And then defended himself (maybe not, but for sure had about 20 posts here). And Micky was there. He's legend ?



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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my


Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: September 15 2009 at 00:15
Originally posted by MartyMcFly89 MartyMcFly89 wrote:

Lemmings can't be scary for me, because back in early 90's, when I  was discovering magical world of DOS games on dad's 486 (with I suppose 40Mhz and 16MB ?), one of games I adored the most was Lemmings.

Suicidal creatures they look like, but wikipedia says different thing, as you probably know. But myth is strong thing. For example in Czech, there is a saying "I don't think about it, I know it." Well, he has to think about it to know it, he can't be sure if he doesn't think about it. In fact, correct translation is more like "I don't think it, I know it"

but lemmings will always fall off the cliffs in minds of people. I had once guinea pig, but it died. I was sad.

I saw Epignosis defense in Indukti thread and I read all posts here, because it concerns me as well. I gave this abomination (my point of view) 2 stars, he gave 1 and gave also hell better explanation. And then defended himself (maybe not, but for sure had about 20 posts here). And Micky was there. He's legend ?



Yes of course he is...you ain't him are ya ? Tell us about your prog girl  Wink


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