Who's the brain behind The Beatles?
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Topic: Who's the brain behind The Beatles?
Posted By: The Runaway
Subject: Who's the brain behind The Beatles?
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 13:55
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Who's the real mastermind of this fantastic band? ------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Replies:
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:47
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None of the above listed. Theodor W. Adorno was the brains behind the 'Beatles' as he held the rights to the music and eventually his estate sold those rights to Michael Jackson.
Adorno a classical musician wrote their music and it was all filtered down through Paul who could not read a note of music by the way. In fact the only half way real musician in the band was George Harrison. John was a poet who could strum a few chords and Ringo a hack drummer at best. George often wondered why they never wanted to use his songs. Oh and as an aside, Paul ended up being Knighted, and you don't get Knighted unless you have done as you were told and made your masters proud.
The Beatles were introduced to the public as a means to spread youth culture which led to the spreading of the 'New Age' culture and this was all geared to setting up a nylistic culture that is all to present today. It's called divide and conquer but this gets into a whole different 'Pandora's Box' if you will. Things are not what they seem. |
Posted By: Lota
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:49
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George Martin!!! he was the fifth Beatle....
------------- And In The End, The Love You Take, Is Equal To The Love You Make |
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:56
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Since Harrison has no votes, I'll be the first to give him one. Lennon or McCartney could also be cited as The Beatles' brain.------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 15:14
| George Martin had a huge role, although it has to be said the other 4 did have a bit of talent here and there. He did play a large part in translating the writers' basic ideas into the works of musical genius that they became. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 15:31
One has to wonder why he would chose such a band of talentless no-hopers to be is pawns, then Trilby could not sing without Svengali.  ------------- What? |
Sacred 22 wrote:Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 15:33
| Ringo |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 16:24
The truth often comes as a surprise to the majority but to the few it just makes sense.............hell, you could run polls here asking who was the better musician between say Beethoven and Lennon and I'm guessing Lennon might even win. Our cutlure is created and the people who create it know what they are doing, much as religion was used long ago to keep the King in control.
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 17:51
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: SentimentalMercenary
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 18:08
 ------------- Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell. - Karl Popper |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 18:08
It's not a conspiracy at all, it's the way the people who run the planet have run things for thousands of years. The term 'conspiracy' was coined to make it look like the majority are the ones who know. When in fact common sense will tell you that that is is impossible. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 18:51
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hahhaha.. .. nothing like net channel surfing and tuning in just when the man and the woman ...whoops.. oh this is great.... the tinfoil hats and musical idiocy are back and on full display... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 19:03
hahahhah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 19:36
a moist, squeezing, jerking noise can be heard in the background  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 19:40
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John lennon, he was the most intresting and most productive and wrote the best and most experimental songs without him beatles whuld have been yust any simpel pop band. ------------- 
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 19:52
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the beatles are an invention of the media, they never actually existed. all the music attributed to them was actually produced by neil armstrong while he was supposedly training to, and then going to, the moon. that being said, "the beatles" only released a few good songs anyway. -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: TheCaptain
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 19:55
 ------------- Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:03
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Ringo, needless to say.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:18
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Think of Plato's cave and the guy that got out and came back to tell the others that the world was not as they thought. He was threatened with his life because the others that were stuck in the cave did not want their version of reality destroyed.
The same thing will be true in this age as well and no tin foil hat analogy will ever help you aside from maybe keeping the rain off of your head.
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:23
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:26
 |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:31
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hey, you boys play nice, this is a forum after all
not everyone can believe the beatles were true visionaries or that the earth revolves around the sun, or that the moon exists ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: santiagomo87
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:32
Adorno or not, Abbey Road is one of the best albums ever made. Back on topin I have not voted because I think it is all four of them except Ringo ------------- Santiago |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:43
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http://barcelonadiary-lishman.blogspot.com/2008/02/interview-with-estulin-part-3.html -
A link I found and the Tavastock Institute was also heavily involved with the marketing of the Beatles as well as the Stones. Anyway, most people will never believe it and that's to be expected.
http://barcelonadiary-lishman.blogspot.com/2008/02/interview-with-estulin-part-3.html
As John Lennon used to preach, give peace a chance....................Well, the meaning of peace is simply the lack of any opposition. If you want complete control of the people, that is what you would strive for, but maybe this is not the best place for this topic.
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:53
What's the best part of this conspiracy? How stupid it is? How you expect us to reject everything obvious and accept your story without a shred of proof offered? Or is it how you act like a conspiracy like this, if true would be something highly devious and destructive? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Scoppioingola
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 20:59
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 21:01
y'know you might have had an interesting point about society if it weren't for your opener. I mean, why ruin a perfectly stupid conspiracy theory with bizarre nonsense that even a child could see through. If you want to sell it other people, you have to find the legitimacy in your ideas, even if they're completely absurd. I've been a conspiracy buff for years but this just ruins it for all us hard-working paranoids out there. Theodor Adorno - a brilliant thinker who was attacked equally and viscously by both the Left and Right - died in 1969 after several years of heart problems. Here's a lovely quote by one James Whitehead from his page on this particular theory -- "In this hall of mirrors, lack of evidence is certain proof of a cover-up. As for Adorno, his essays were written mainly at the time when pop music meant Glenn Miller. To have leaped from Schoenberg pupil to writer of 'Love Me Do' was clearly an artistic conversion somewhat more Damascene than Kurt Weill's journey from Busoni pupil to composer of 'September Song'. Probably the most fruitful area for the rock journalist who wishes to distinguish him or herself would be an investigation into what our Theo was up to in middle-life, or "The Lost Bing Years" as we lounge-lizards like to call them." Either get a grip or present some compelling evidence. You of course realize the notion that this man actually wrote the Beatles' music is so far outside the realm of probability - nay, possibility - that it collapses under its own weight. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 21:05
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BTW the answer is George Martin, followed by John Lennon |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 21:22
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Pete Best! The band wouldn't be the same without his departure... |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 22:01
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Who is the mastermind? Bill Berends , off course ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 00:00
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Steven Wilson, ov coarse. He went back in time and knocked up four English women who gave birth to the Beatles... actually only three. Ringo was just the drummer they hired. :P All of this is obviously true if you use common sense, you all just think it's a conspiracy theory because you are all sheep, like the ones described in the song Sheep by Pink Floyd.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 00:49
It was really Lenin and McCarthy - they had a lot more in common than most of realize.  ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 00:49
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Here is a quote from John Lennon in his 1980 Playboy magazine interview, which can easily be found on the net. Incidently, talking about so called 'tin foil heads', both he and Yoko would qualify when you consider some of what they said in the interview regarding LSD, society, woman and children. However, that is another story. I really get the feeling that Lennon was really holding back from telling the real story about the Beatles in this interview and his constant bashing of the band is odd to say the least. He was killed shortly after the interview. Anyway, here is the quote:
LENNON: Ringo was a star in his own right in Liverpool before we even met. He was a professional drummer who sang and performed and had Ringo Star-time and he was in one of the top groups in Britain but especially in Liverpool before we even had a drummer. So Ringo's talent would have come out one way or the other as something or other. I don't know what he would have ended up as, but whatever that spark is in Ringo that we all know but can't put our finger on -- whether it is acting, drumming or singing I don't know -- there is something in him that is projectable and he would have surfaced with or without the Beatles. Ringo is a damn good drummer. He is not technically good, but I think Ringo's drumming is underrated the same way Paul's bass playing is underrated. Paul was one of the most innovative bass players ever. And half the stuff that is going on now is directly ripped off from his Beatles period. He is an egomaniac about everything else about himself, but his bass playing he was always a bit coy about. I think Paul and Ringo stand up with any of the rock musicians. Not technically great -- none of us are technical musicians. None of us could read music. None of us can write it. But as pure musicians, as inspired humans to make the noise, they are as good as anybody. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:15
 oh dear.. your point is what? Lennon does little "bashing" and much praising of the band as musicians in that interview. You seem to have a misunderstanding of how music is made and then professionally produced to emerge as real songs. The tapes of the Beatles rehearsing in 68/69 clearly reveal a band who were quite imperfect and only after much reworking and good post-production did the music reach their standard. No secret composers or sinister nu-age machinations.But really, why do I bother? Must be the debunker in me. Carry on. |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:31
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When you look at bands like ELP or Yes and other bands of their ilk you notice a kind of professional edge to them and with the Beatles I see a kind of overly handled band much like the Monkees complete with cheesy movies and even a Yellow Submarine. Come on, really???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXT_yT2lAGE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXT_yT2lAGE
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:37
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A little introspective from Frank Zappa. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1cx-Q88cxw&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1cx-Q88cxw&feature=related
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Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:55
I only know of 1 person who has the whole Get Back tapes, and 30 hours of the whole 100 are arguments and conversations, I mean damn, George even left the studio for 2 days! ------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 01:55
------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 02:42
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None of the fab four can be called "the brain behind the Beatles" properly. So I give George my vote to give him a time with John and Ringo. And with the name of Pete Best already mentioned, I'd like to add Stu Sutcliffe to the list as well. ------------- 
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Posted By: SentimentalMercenary
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 08:56
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I've got to side with Sacred 22. I do not think he has that much explaining to do to support his case. On the other hand, those who still think that the Beatles were 'geniuses' still have a missing link to account for. Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : ( )
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Had this happened here and there throughout the history of music, I could think differently and accept that there might not need to be a Step B. Until then, I remain a conspiracy theorist too!   ------------- Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell. - Karl Popper |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 09:24
------------- What? |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 09:43
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McCartney has perpetrated this "untrained" thing forever, but Blackbird is a combo of Travis picking and the entry level classical piece Bouree by Bach. Do you honestly think a classically trained musician would ever have written "Love Me Do"? The idea that pop culture is used to distract the public from real issues is absolutely true. But talent has little to do with it. If someone falls out of favor, a new pretty face is found. The Beatles were talented songwriters, mainly because they worked very hard it. They knew 100s if not 1000s of songs from their time slogging in the clubs. They were energetic, had very good ears, had great timing, and evolved along with culture quite adeptly for a time (yes helping produce it also).
Like Genesis, the Beatles were an uncommon collective where each person played a certain part and it happened to compliment quite well, for a time. In that I include George Martin, who indeed was the fifth Beatle.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 10:11
The Illuminati and the Jewish Cabal probably co-conspired to have him killed effectively keeping the Beatles true nature secret and cementing their power over the world.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 11:02
You are a GENIUS. ------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 13:07
I always thought that the 5th Beatle was Billy Preston. Go figure. BTW Pete Best was the brains but that was after Stuart Sutcliffe left. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 13:13
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Billy was the 8th Beatle. Get hip to the groove, man. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Matthew T
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:37
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I am going for Brian Epstein.........not on the list. He got them em' going ------------- Matt |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:52
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Macca by far
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 16:54
i thought it was Forest Gump  as he also was the man beheind Elvis`s dance moves. no think it is the combo of Lennon and MaCartney and but of Spice from George Harrison and some guidlines frim Geroge Martin. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 17:54
This would have been my vote too. The Beatles, like every group of artists, needed someone to manage the business end of things. Few musicians can do this themselves. Yes, there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.
Jon Anderson only learned how to read music many years after Yes became huge, so that in itself is not evidence that the Beatles were the facade for a vast conspiricy. That John Lennon was shot after an interview with Playboy proves nothing. The fallacy is called post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore on account of this. Michael Jackson died after Americans started arguing over health care reform. His death was the result of a giant conspiricy to prove that we do need health care reform in this country. It wasn't his doctor that killed him, it was the liberals.
 We've been warned not to believe everything we read. That is most certainly true, and it applies to all of us.
------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 20:42
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Macca is the brain, and more evident after the death of Epstein.
BTW Sacred 22 i have read the Estulin interview, i do not believe anything about that he's saying about the Beatles.
And i think that Adorno have no time to "compose" the music of the Beatles between 1967-69, becuase he was doing other things, like writing his Aestetic Teory for example. -------------  |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:01
All this conspiracy thing is soooo ridiculous. step B??!?! wtf? they didn't produced one masterpiece after another since the beggining, they clearly evolved from album to album, although very quickly. And not reading music doesn't mean they couldn't write songs or think of great and clever arrangements, plus all their music wasn't complex, but it was interesting and original. They might have been illiterate amateurs, but they listened to a lot music, learned very quickly, had good ears, great ideas and an open mind, that's all they needed to produce those masterpieces. Doesn't this makes much more sense? ------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:27
that's the one |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 21:28
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Not recommending anything here, just stating the facts, as I understand them:
Step A : Four musically illiterate amateurs undertake to form a band.
Step B : (Bob Dylan or some other reprobate person (Mick Jagger?) gets them high.)
Step C : Produce musical masterpieces after another?
Clear as day.
 'Caveat: except for Pet Sounds, same approach didn't work out so well for Brian Wilson. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 08 2009 at 23:31
Of course, I would be concerned if the majority of people could see thru it. That would just be kookie.
What would the point be?????It's like what Hitler said, he said, "if you are going to sell a lie make sure it's a big one otherwise no one will believe it"
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 01:41
So the fact that few people accept it makes it true? If that's the case, then I'm the greatest guitar player in the history of the world!  ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 01:55
Aunt Mimi and Leggy Mountbatten.  ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 01:55
but that's just the start of all the untenable things that would have to have happened according to the current theory being posited, which is that Adorno 'funneled' the music through Paul who then presented it to Martin and the Boys to turn into hits (John's songs too? Really? 'I Am the Walrus', 'Come Together', 'Hey Bulldog', 'Happiness is a Warm Gun' ..hmm) creating the biggest media money-maker since the Three Stooges as a way to fund, what, some secret post-Socialist Intellectualism on the world as a way to influence people to... I'm just making this up as I go, someone stop me... |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 02:00
Get off your high horse bud
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 08:15
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By the way, I think the brain in The Beatles was Macca by far, all of them were great musicians and songwriters IMO, but Paul was allways most involved in the songwriting and arrangements of the songs, especially in some of their greatest albums when the other weren't much into them. Of course George Martin was a big influence on them too, that's why he's the fifth Beatle, but he didn't write the songs.
-------------
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 09:15
I imagine Adorno in the studio chat session with the Beatles telling how's Get Back might have sound. ------------- |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 09 2009 at 13:58
No, Adorno and anyone else connected with the actual song composition would have them passed down through the proper channels. Then the band would be instructed as to where to go from there.
It is not uncommon to have ghost writers in music and literature and have someone elses name attached to it. Happens all the time.
The band went from a simple rockin blues band to writing very slick and polished tunes out of no where. Anytime anything is mass peddled I tend to take it all with a grain of salt.
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Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 00:08
And you obviously haven't heard the evolution from Help to Rubber Soul to Revolver. That is certainly not out of nowhere. They were great writers and solid musicians; people still listen to their music for that reason. If they are conning us, then I'd gladly follow and worship them obediently
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 00:09
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You should of put a yoko option up
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 02:09
It's not to take anything away from the music, no, some of it is very good, but I'm not convinced they wrote it, that's all. As far as not talking, well money goes a long way in keeping a person quiet, among other things. Gag orders are issued to military personal and others in positions close to so called sensitive information all the time. I know an individual who has a gag order placed on him and he has to inform the authorities of any change of address etc, etc. I even suspect that Lennon may have been killed for that very reason. If Lennon spilled the beans on that one, the world would have listened. Anyway, who knows, it's all possible. Lets put it this way, the Beatles had an awful lot to say about shaping the culture of youth. They really got the ball rolling so to speak.
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 06:14
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This threa(t/d) is obviously in the wrong forum. It should be in the "Just for Fun" forum.
The Ruthless have returned from outer space.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 21:23
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[QUOTE=Equality 7-2521] [QUOTE=Sacred 22]
None of the above listed. Theodor W. Adorno was the brains behind the 'Beatles' as he held the rights to the music and eventually his estate sold those rights to Michael Jackson.
Adorno a classical musician wrote their music and it was all filtered down through Paul who could not read a note of music by the way. In fact the only half way real musician in the band was George Harrison. John was a poet who could strum a few chords and Ringo a hack drummer at best. George often wondered why they never wanted to use his songs. Oh and as an aside, Paul ended up being Knighted, and you don't get Knighted unless you have done as you were told and made your masters proud.
The Beatles were introduced to the public as a means to spread youth culture which led to the spreading of the 'New Age' culture and this was all geared to setting up a nylistic culture that is all to present today. It's called divide and conquer but this gets into a whole different 'Pandora's Box' if you will. Things are not what they seem This is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, as I have gone outside the topic many times myself. I love the Beatles no doubt. But I feel compelled to support some of your viewpoints due to all the horrifying crime that I witnessed during my extended time in the music biz. When music changed in the media, I was always there hands on watching agents, managers, and record executives forcing or blackballing anyone that stood in the way of that change. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 21:53
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an excellent article on how and why the Beatles music, particularly the early work, was so notable for the time, it even mentions Adorno right at about halfway down the page - http://www.icce.rug.nl/%7Esoundscapes/VOLUME03/Words_and_chords.shtml - http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME03/Words_and_chords.shtml |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 22:23
I'll be reading that one when I have some time to digest. In the meantime, everybody let's enjoy the 'reciprocal oral sex' yearning of Please Please Me:
C'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon, c'mon c'mon c'mon
Please please me, oh yeah, like I please you...
Damn box set.
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 10 2009 at 23:39
I have seen it first hand as well. Few people really understand how the business works. You have seen it and you know. Once you get into the business you find out and Frank Zappa was very vocal about that. Steven Wilson as of late is another one.
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:08
Interesting article and it really supports what I have been saying. Thanks for digging that one up.
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Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:20
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Now that I think of it, Plato said in the 'Republic' that he thought musicians should be licenced for the tremendous power that they can weild upon the unsuspecting public, and when you look at what those master musicians (Beatles) who could not even read music did, well it really should have any intellegent person thinking. Culture creation? hmmmmmmmmmm
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players" |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 03:49
of course it supports what you've been saying, don't most things? Surely the substandard quality of the Beatles' solo work was due to Adorno's absence. And George Harrison was attacked in his home by a crazed fan to silence him. Wait, I can see it; one day in early 1966 Paul McCartney quietly meets with one 'Mr. A' who promptly says, "I like you boys but listen to this", at which point he plays a demo version of Eleanor Rigby, after which Paul says "Yeah mate, you've really got somethin there". |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 05:04
This is veering off into von Däniken territory and follows a similar logic to his arrogant theories that ancient civilisations were too primitive to have built the pyramids so they must have had alien help.
There are too many assumptions being made about the musical abilities of the Beatles and all this musicologist analysis is retrospective. It is already been asserted that the Beatles played "by ear", so it is only natural that they composed "by ear" - and in doing that they would not have followed any rules of chord progressions, blues or otherwise, since their musical education was practical rather than theoretical and from a broader palate (and palette
) than just blues based rock'n'roll. For example their use of the plagel cadence shows that hymns figured somewhere in that education, which is not unsurprising given the School Education system in 1950s Liverpool being considerably less secular than we know it today; also McCartney's family were Jazz and Brass Band musicians, he was exposed to all kinds of music and would have called on that when writing his own music.
Of course they would have started from a framework of 'standard' chord progressions learnt from hit tunes of the day without realising that they were "rules", but then modified that with accidental note, chord and key changes that simply sounded right to them, regardless of how right those new progressions where to trained musicologists. These things don't have to be planned or orchestrated, they just happen, and thousands of other bands make similar 'mistakes', just none of them hit upon a winning formula quite like the Beatles did. Wacky (or clever) key changes could be similar 'errors' - in retrospect they look complex, but they could just as easily be "compose by ear" changes that sounded right to them - I doubt that they knew they were modulating from "the home key of G Major onto an unstable B minor." - the chord just fitted for them at that time so they used it.
Another point made in the text is that some of the chord progressions don't stand up without the overlying vocal harmony - which they make out is some wonderfully clever invention - it's not - it's a natural result of composing on the guitar/piano while singing along - both the melody and the chord progression were composed simultaneously, that's all. ------------- What? |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:16
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It gives new meaning to the Fab 4...
The Fabricated 4
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:26
^ I think you're confusing them with the pre-fab four:
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 06:54
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^the Prefabricated Four
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Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 07:58
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I think its JohnLennon
------------- The planet is fine the people are f**ked. -George Carlin- |
Posted By: ModernRocker79
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 08:00
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There are so many things the Beatles did musically that jazz musicians were not EVEN DOING at the time. The psychedelic sounding pre-recorded loops, on "Tomorrow Never Knows", the backward guitar parts on "I'm Only Sleeping, George Harrison was working at a sophisticated level of extrapolating Indian scales to the Western setting, something no one else had done in rock music at the time. "Love You To", which is certainly derived from classical Indian. The guitar feedback on "I Feel Fine", the 12 string jangle sound that influenced Roger McGuinn, the reason why the Byrds went electric was because of the Beatles, the ska rhythm on "I Call Your Name", the layered fuzz bass and bass at the fore-front on "Think for Yourself". They basically influenced every early progressive rock artist and probably invented Avant-Pop on Revolver and Psychedelic Pop for that matter on Rubber Soul. "Tomorrow Never Knows” which is proto so many things is maybe the first example of Psychedelic electronic which in turns has so many spin-offs in today's music. Then there is Sgt Pepper look at the album structure and tell me it was innovative at the time. The "overture" and "reprise" at the end, and A Day in the Life, with its use of orchestra, unusual structure, time changes, sound effects and sometimes complete disregard for pop music conventions--all share a lot in common with prog music. Even Robert Fripp got into rock music after hearing "A Day in the Life". |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: September 11 2009 at 20:13
That's a perfect explanation. It's so easy to understand, I don't understand why some people need to believe they had some classical musician that wrote their music, how stupid that sounds? well, they had George Martin, that's all the help they needed. -------------
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 00:47
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Sacred 22 Please READ what Adorno himself have to say about The Beatles: Follow the link: http://books.google.com.mx/books?id=dAZmVD_AV9cC&pg=RA1-PA420&lpg=RA1-PA420&dq=the+beatles+and+adorno&source=bl&ots=5TDdW4lE1n&sig=Rys0FGs9Fa1f5sqewXRUpzSX-P0&hl=es&ei=dDWrSt-OA-KDtgf4r82oCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=the%20beatles%20and%20adorno&f=false ------------- |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 00:55
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More Clear: n the book Adorno by Stefan Mueller-Doohm, I found this quote on page 420: Adorno was keen to distinguish the Beatles from advanced modernity, whose condition could be measured by the progress of avant-garde art. /quote Adorno:/ "What can be urged against the Beatles is simply that what these people have to offer is something that is retarded in terms of it's own objective content. It can be shown that the means of expression that are employed and preserved here are in reality no more than traditional techniques in a degraded form." (Diskussion in the magazine Akzente, issue Summer 1965). ------------- |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 00:56
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With this statement i don't think Adorno were sooo interest in "compose" beatles music
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 01:07
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http://www.tinhouse.com/mag/back_issues/archive/issues/issue_10/feature.html Good reading i enjoy the perspective. ------------- |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 12:12
Do you realize what he is saying here? He is not saying that the Beatles are a degraded form but that the psychological technique employed via the Beatles is degraded. Another words and I must thank you for digging this up, is that they were being used to create culture, a means to an end if you will; on route to a fascist state. Do you realize that Adorno held the right to the Beatles music? Like I say, there is much more to this puzzle than most people can imagine
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Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 12:34
Ya, well, I'll go with Lennon anyway. ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 12:37
Yes, but it rocks. ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:10
Proof?
In 1965 Northern Songs was made into a public company with the Beatles owning 33% of the shares, Dick James and Charles Silver 37.5%, Epstein 7.5% and the rest traded on the London Stock Exchange. In 1969 James & Silver along with several of the smaller stock holders sold their shares to Lew Grade's ATV Music, realising that they could not gain control of Northern Songs Lennon & McCartney sold ATV their shares too. ATV owned Northern Songs until 1985 when the whole company was bought by Michael Jackson for a reported $47M ... source Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Songs - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Songs )
..so what proof do you have that Theodor W. Adorno's estate held the rights to The Beatles Music? Was he part of, or connected to, Lew Grade's Associated TeleVision empire? Highly improbable without proof. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:32
Was he also the one who had the android to replace McCartney with after he died? ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 13:34
Maybe Adorno was replaced with an android and he bought the shares? ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: Sacred 22
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 18:59
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Here is something to read about it
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/colemanbeatlesandAquarianConspiracy01mar07.shtml - http://educate-yourself.org/cn/colemanbeatlesandAquarianConspiracy01mar07.shtml
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 20:21
  that's the most puerile pile of incoherrant nonsense I've ever read - even the chronology is arse-backwards:
No proof given, and actually not true: The word "beat generation" predates The Beatles by several years - there is even a 1959 US film called "The Beat Generation" - the movie tag line for which on it's original cinema release was "The wild, weird, world of the Beatniks! ...Sullen rebels, defiant chicks...searching for a life of their own! The pads...the jazz...the dives... those frantic "way-out" parties... beyond belief!"
..again no proof given, and it's a fanciful notion anyway - the words "teenage" and "rock" were in common usage 8 years before The Beatles found popularity in the USA:
"The Blackboard Jungle" - original 1955 tagline: 'A DRAMA OF TEEN-AGE Terror!
"Rebel Without A Cause" - original 1955 tagline: ''Teenage terror torn from today's headlines'
"The Girl Can't Help It" - original 1956 tagline: "Rock yourself into your happiest time with THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT" ...those words were introduced into England from America by such teen-movies as those I've listed and the general vocabulary of Rock'n'Roll that the music used in them carried. Before the advent of TV and the Internet, Films were the only way youth-culture was carried around the world - Rock'n'Roll music was brought to England in the soundtracks of them. Even then Beatles were heavily influenced by those films (their name was taken from the Marlon Brando film "The Wild Ones")
Eh? Those so-called trigger words were in use long before The Beatles and the breaking-away, separatation and fragmentation of society started in the mid 1950 (as documented in Rebel Without Cause and Blackbiard Jungle etc) actually led four lads form Liverpool to start a skiffle group in the first place, not the other way around.
anyway... I don't know whether the next quote made me laugh or cry - either way it certainly puts the whole diatribe into perspective:
...and you believe this drivel?
 No - honestly, without proof this is meaningless. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 20:42
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^ this is the really ugly part about this theory, it appears to be socio-politically driven. Ironic, as it rallies against the public manipulations [i.e. the entertainment business] it disfavors only to replace it with myths of bizarre proportions, and completely blind to the creative process it calls into question. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 20:48
Yes i read that in other forum I know that you going to cite your "source". I'll illuminate you. It's very simple. *Everyone* who drags Adorno into this mess turns out to be drawing on Coleman and on Coleman alone. Each of them is a mythomaniac and adds their own little something to the brew, just some little detail that gives the story a personal touch. But Coleman is a crook. In reality, no one could be more distanced from conspiracy and more active in the other end of the spectrum than Adorno, if you look at his actual work. This is why he is now being persecuted, i suppose, plus, it is convenient to pick someone who died decades ago and can't defend themselves. Watt is obviously part of some project with the mission to to delude people and deprive them of any sense of culture and belonging. People like me are not easy to mislead; I have strong cultural roots, and I have actively participated in forming those roots. But most younger U.S. people are easy targets, for a large number of reasons. ------------- |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 20:57
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Adorno's trademark as a philosopher was that he
opposed everything mass media and mass culture or pop culture, and if
anyone here had read Coleman's actual statements, they would know for a
fact that *everything* that Coleman writes pertaining to the Beatles,
except for the drug connection, is a blatant hoax and very possibly the
weakest and most absurd conspiracy theory that ever existed. It seems
like a big joke. He actually states that Adorno wrote the music, and
also that the Beatles' music was atonal, and Bacchanial/Dionysian. It is the opposite to all that.
------------- |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:03
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^ it's actually dafter than that - Coleman claims that Adorno wrote the music for all the British Invasion artists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Invasion_Artists - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Invasion_Artists ------------- What? |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:46
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http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME01/The_sound_of_the_Beatles.shtml
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 21:46
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it reminds a bit of the Moon Landing theory (except for Coleman's homophobic quasi-religious agenda) which is so uninformed of the way physics, science and photography work that it's not even pushed by most theorists anymore Coleman is a deeply angry, misinformed crusader who believes people don't actually do anything of freewill - put another way, that any influence on society is planned, and with malicious intent. What he fails to realize is that anyone and anything may have an affect on any other thing. That's just how it works, and his very article is proof of that. You go, Mr. Coleman, you're proving that individuals can impact others simply by expressing themself. Case in point; the Beatles. Wake up and smell the coffee, and then move on with your life. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:13
I think it's hard for some people to accept the possibility of human talent reaching out to so many people. They think they have seen through a conspiracy to mass influence people when in reality they simply lack faith in the boundless potential of human endeavour and what could be more pathetic! I have met people who are genuinely indifferent to the Beatles and they are not the ones wasting time reading and trumpeting conspiracy theories, much less making them up, because they couldn't care less either way. Ergo, I have to conclude that the likes of Coleman are deeply resentful of talented bands like Beatles.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 22:16
exactly
interesting idea |