What makes people find Prog boring?
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Topic: What makes people find Prog boring?
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Subject: What makes people find Prog boring?
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 15:42
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People born in the late eighties and (early) nineties grow up with music like R 'n B and dance. As that music is (in most cases) mainstream music, the majority of those people listens to it. A huge minority of teens, including myself, listens to prog. As most of the prog that's made isn't isn't very accesible it's not a very popular music style. I can fully understand this, as most people don't want to listen to weird time signatures and strange vocals. They rather listen to more accisible melodies with a pleasant sound. As far as I know, this has always been the case. The thing that annoys me is that people who don't like prog, say it's because prog is boring. Even prog that had mainstream succes is said to be boring, for example Pink Floyd. I can't understand why people say prog is boring, as I find acts as VDGG, Genesis and Porcupine Tree anything from boring. I can understand people calling music boring when the music is quiet and soft... but lots of pop and R 'n B also is very soft, and that is not said to be boring. This can't be a matter of tastes. I am, for example, not a fan of rap, but for disliking it I don't find it boring. Same thing with other styles of modern music, like modern pop and dance. That music does not entertain me, but I don't think it's boring at all. My question here is: what makes people find progressive music a boring form of music? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 15:48
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This is what my wife says about all the classic prog I listen to....
"It all sounds like elevator music"
The problems I have with that statement I can barely put into words.It just sums it up.....most people just don't understand this music we all love so much.
And as far as all the post metal,post rock,progressive death metal,etc. that I listen to,I won't even go into what she says about that stuff.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 15:58
| The fact that a good amount of it is not in 4/4 might confuse less adept listeners. Unable to compute the complex rhythms, their less-developed music receptors will interpret the sound as mush. |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 16:13
Elevator music huh? I usually hear that it sounds like movie music or video game music. I think that's because that's how most ppl get their exposure to classical music, so anything that has elements of classical music is relegated to the movie/video game bin. I think one guy actually walked in halfway through Magnum Opus and asked if it was from Lord of the Rings. 
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 16:29
As elitist as that sounds, it seems to be true (for a lot of people), and a good part of why people find prog boring. Also the songs in prog often take longer to express the ideas so people won't have the patience to listen to them (but with this longer form comes the potential to express more and greater ideas, and potential to f**k up even greater as well :P). Another thing is that you can't dance to prog and often can't rock to it either, it's never sexual and often expresses its ideas in an intellectual way, it's something that was never meant for the masses (in or current world anyway). So people without the right mindset in listening to it will find it boring. Usually because they don't get it, but of course there are cases of people who get it and don't like it at all (prog in general) for other reasons. I find dance music boring because I don't like dancing. :P If a type of music goes against your mindset and thereby doesn't do anything for you, it will be boring. |
WalterDigsTunes wrote:Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:14
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What makes prog boring?Hmm, there are two answers for that: 1 - It is a dated style of music (say what you want, Genesis is as dated as Cyndi Lauper and Nirvana, if both were any good) 2 - Jon Anderson's / Peter Gabriel's voice sucks  -------------   
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:23
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most prog musicians were too a-d-d or too full of themselves to write a decent song that had hooks or a long enough section of 4/4 to headbang to. n00bs. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:35
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Nobody in my family besides me and my dad like music that doesn't have vocals. I once played Wish You Were Here and my sister complained that there weren't any, at least up until the end of Shine On... part 1. My other sister has even stated that she only cares about the singing (and the cuteness of said singer). I encountered the same problem trying to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey, "It's stupid there's no talking in it" "The music is weird turn it off", etc. I can't get them to step outside of their safety zone and teach them to appreciate anything but what they already like. I should buy some Merzbow and play it constantly, after that, they'll be grateful to hear anything else. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:45
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Prog fans, naturally. Yuck. |
Posted By: alanight
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:49
| People = Stupid |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 17:59
I guess I like some prog  , but there are lots of prog songs and albums that bore me to death.There are different reasons: 1. Lack of emotion. It's probably the main reason. Music is rather constructed than comes from the heart, as a result it is artificial and, yes, boring. 2. Lack of variety and writing skills. There are ideas but musicians fail to keep the listener's attention during the whole song (piece, album). 3. Lack of originality, lots of bands without their own sound. 4. Simple case, when I understand: music is great, but it's not my cup of tea. The length does not matter - almost side-long "Echoes" never seemed boring to me, while some 3-5 minute songs seem endless.
------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 18:22
that was the great thing in the late 60s and early 70s. every band really did have a different sound then -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 18:25
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It's all a matter of tastes. And what you search for when you listen to your music. And the time you devote to the music you hear.
- Some people will like prog, some won't. Easy enough.
- Some people want music just as background for other activities or for relaxation or for dance or for whatever. Many prog fans hear music just because they want to dig into it, explore it, like reading a book in sounds.
- Some prog music needs a lot of time to digest. Some people either can't devote so much time to it or just don't care to because they don't feel they need to.
So in the end is the same that makes you and me different: we're different.
I, for example, can't get to like Fran Zappa. I find Sigur Ros boring, as I do Can. And on top of that, I don't like them. I think they almost always go together, boring and dislike. Something that doesn't make you have a good time (not in the "let's party" sense of the expression) is something you will not like. ------------- 
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 18:56
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Everybody who has contributed so far has added a good reason. I'd agree with that, but I'd also add that repetition has a lot to it. Most bands have one riff in each song and repeat it in groups of four along with a verse in groups of four and a chorus in groups of four. A prog song tends to develop musically, some songs are even symphonic where you are hearing a new musical idea every bar (not necessarily a different mood or feel). In that sense, there isn't something catchy for the listener to grasp on to, and the song takes a lot of exploration to appreciate well. People want a catchy repetitive riff or hook that they're able to sing a long, and explorative composition doesn't lend to that. ------------- 
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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 18:56
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Prog isn't boring, there are just people who are boring.
-------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:02
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The reason why the only rock music I listen to is old style prog and fusion is because I find most other forms of rock inferior. I never enjoyed Rock music growing up until I found old prog and fusion or prog related music. It's just the best music because it has fun bass playing, cool drumming, nice keys, nice percussion, interesting vocals and the songs are busy and the melodies are catchy and long lasting. I don't like modern style prog though. It's just metal with a bit more to it. I find that boring too. I like the new bands who style their music on old style prog but as long as they are original and don't sound like a copy of old bands. This is the music which progresses because the songs are quality and stay strong. Forget about inventing and experimenting. Progression is all about clever melody ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:27
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I'm pretty sure the answer lies in Camel's The Snow Goose and Soft Machine's Third
These albums have always bored me to tears but are held up by the majority of proggers as each band's greatest achievement. Maybe there's just a large percentage of masochists in in the prog world who want every note of music to be as long and drawn out as it could possibly be.  -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:35
That's not really it man . . . . . -------------
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Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:39
Actually I've had a friend and whenever were seatmates she always wants to listen to music with me but she's a big fan of R n' B and mostly pop music. And she always tell me that it' s boring specially the mellow ones, but fine,I understand it...... For me if you're a fan of popular music you'll find prog boring because it'll take time before one can appreciate it. But if you're a fan of prog music and you'll listen to pop I don't think you'll enjoy it especially the hannah montanabecause you had improved you're listening skills. .------------- The planet is fine the people are f**ked. -George Carlin- |
Posted By: Canprog
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:41
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:50
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Prog bands that bore me seem to have aload of w**kery and no passion or general song writing skill *cough DT
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: camilleanne
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:54
DT??  ------------- The planet is fine the people are f**ked. -George Carlin- |
Posted By: PROGMONSTER2008
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 19:59
Snowgoose has some moments which don't excite me much
 I love the cool parts of the album though. The start and the middle of the album are very good  ------------- Jazz/Classical Rock(70's style prog/fusion). Lots of prog keys and melodies(all original ideas) http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/vigilante2008 |
Posted By: DASistGrantTeeL
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 20:00
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i thought this was prog-archives, but this seems like a bunch of people talking about how bad prog is
------------- "This dream is all I’ve ever wanted, Cared for, I only hope things haven’t changed when I awake…" |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 20:02
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At least a 80% of my school, or 80% of all the people who goes to the clubs I go to dance, just say that "prog"(they don't even know that word though) is boring, just because the fact that it's not in the mainstream right now. If they were living in the 70's, they would definitely "dance", sing-along, and play all day stuff like Floyd. I don't think they even listen to the music. Not insulting them, all of those are friends of mine, so.... Just telling my observation. I could give a highly danceable or catchy song to a friend of mine who listens to music that all people like, and still wouldn't "like it" just because the rest doesn't like it. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 20:12
I'm sorry lol It's stupid for me to summarise music within a couple of lines but Dream Theatre sum it up for me lol I don't dislike them.I just think they've brought the part of prog which I was hoping to forget.
No,just constructive criticisms.Making a purpose for being on a forum. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Tengent
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 21:19
2. Urgh.. also too true.. the lyrics for Golf Girl - Caravan crack me up it's so bad. 3. Agreed with BaldJean, most prog bands in the 70's really did have their own unique sound. I find it difficult to be unique now. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 21:22
Prog isn't boring, it just requires an attention span, which some folks don't really possess. 
------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 21:54
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^ +1
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 22:01
| Most people find prog songs too long and just don't understand it. And if it is not liked by other people, then they'll just go with the flow. I guess that sums it all. Yet, I don't think prog is not emotional, on the contrary, I think prog often reaches peaks of emotion very hardly achievable on pop or other styles of music, just because they take the time to develop the ideas. I wouldn't say that prog bands lack variaty and writing skills either, I mean, what I love of prog bands is that they are completly different from other bands, have great music and melodies, and aren't afraid of coming with something new. Ofcourse, just as is the case with pop, rock, metal, and any other kind of music, there are good musicians and composers, and others that just haven't got the ability. And different people will like different things, it's a matter of taste. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 22:02
Isn't this the definition of the prefab pop/r&b decried in the original post? |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 22:09
The topic creator was asking why we think OTHER people find prog boring.
Some of the people listing bands that they can't get into are just giving examples of how they can understand why some people find prog to be boring.
Like me,I cannot get into VdGG.They do absolutely nothing for me,simply bores me to tears.But I am not going to say they are bad,just not to my personal taste. ------------- |
Posted By: MrPlow
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 22:35
| Probably because most people think they should like what they hear on the radio, which is a bunch of bells and whistles and instant gratification. They don't have the patience to listen to complex music. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 23:40
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I think it's the combination of horrible lyrics about dragons, the endless w**king, and the ridiculous air of pretension heavy in the air around every prog band. Or, you know, not. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 23:59
The worst enemy of Progressive Rock is a Progressive Rock fan. Now if you ask me why other people find Prog boring, I believe because they don't understand it or can't hook chicks with it. Iván
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 00:03
I think most people are joking. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Synchestra
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 00:21
but the point is not all prog is undanceable
What makes prog boring? the short answer is: Nothing ------------- 'Yeah, thats.. Whatever you're talking about for ya' - Zapp brannigan |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 02:37
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It's just a fact that there are (and were) a lot of people who just aren't musically-minded. Just a fact of nature. Some are cursed with it as we are, and some will never get it because they're not wired that way.
For them music is something rythmic to dance to and the short sounds on the radio between 12 minute advert blocks.
Just the same now as it was 40 years ago.
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 03:42
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all people like to eat, but not everybody likes to cook.
All people like music, but not everybody likes to listen first. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 03:44
Perfect answer. ------------- 
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 04:53
I agree, even though I find a lot of prog to be catchy … after you have listened carefully 5 or 6 times, which most people just don’t do. It’s the same with wine: I can’t understand why people drink alcopops instead (BTW, "alcopop" could be an interesting new genre ).------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Cookie
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 05:12
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Unlike POP this bubble will not burst ------------- Cookie Monster |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 05:31
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It's easy to dismiss something that takes a while to get into as boring - if you don't get it first time round give up, which a lot of people do. A bit of perseverence pays off - ie I'm not going to pretend i got into KC straight away - it took a while.
And not everyone is prepared to take that while, especially in this wonderful world of instant radio hits.
Mind you, growing up in the late 60s/70s, prog was in the forefront of culture and hence cool - everyone seemed to be into it and hearing new things was commonplace - these days you tend to have to seek out new things. But to me at least, this is part of the fun. ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Darklord55
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:32
Have you been spying on me again?
This is exactly what goes on at my house. I have managed to get her to listen to some PT which she kinda liked. But that's as far as it goes. She's into the 70's and 80's pop s**t.  |
Posted By: henge
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:41
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Developement time. A typical pop song will hit the chorus within the first minute of the song. As well it will repeat that chorus ALOT! Repetition is key in pop music.
Prog is an artistic expression with not as rigid a structure as pop. You want a 3 minute piano intro, go for it. Want a 4 minute percussion extravaganza? No probs. I think Prog is an art form and good art is always challenging to the listener. Problem is not everybody wants to be challenged. Sometimes you just want to hump Brittany! ------------- Ever heard the one about... New album from Anton Evans, plus gear talk. http://www.antonevans.com |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 07:43
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BeE cUz dEi KeNt stAnD D soUnDz of TEH MELLOW-TRONZ AND TEH UBER LOOOOOONG STRANDZ OF TEH NEW-DELZ. lollolololololololololoL!
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Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 08:22
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I believe most naysayers use "boring" for a couple of reasons: 1) lack of vocabulary 2) don't like prog and its not worth the effort 3) textitus - write as little as possible to answer a question. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 08:28
That's exactly the point - often people who say prog's 'boring' have never made any effort at all to get into it. Try it properly, and if you really don't like it, fine.
I'm like that with lots of prog (and metal) bands - but I'd like to think I've given them a chance before i decide I really don't care for them ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: SergiUriah
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 09:39
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What makes prog people find other musics boring?
They do not sound interesting for them... ------------- http://img229.imageshack.us/i/bonfirma.jpg/"> 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 09:40
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They think it's boring for the same reasons many will think classical music is boring. Complex compositions, that break with rock/pop tradition, in terms of structure, turn people off immediately. It's a 'comfort zone' thing. Often 'boring' is a term to describe something one is merely not used to, or not able to understand.
Each to their own though. I can understand why someone, brought up on music as a means of expressing themselves through dancing, may find Pink Floyd boring. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:11
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My friends don't find prog boring, they use the term weird. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Urik
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:47
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It just requires training. I understand these people. You see, most music is made of simple 4/4 beats with catchy rhymes and a structure that almost always is the same. When you show them Prog, you are grabbing a person that all his life has been watching Disney, and you show them Krubick film. They don't have training, they don't understand it, and that's why the won't like it. I myself have been listening for prog for years, and there still is stuff that I can't understand and don't like. It all is just a matter of what you know and what you understand. You simply can't take away all what they have ever known and give them something long and complex and expect them to love it. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:50
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The explanations are various: 1.- Manipulation: Most people want too be told what is good and what is not in art, I seen people buy a piece of metal junk, because a pseudo informed critic says it's the work of a great artist, when I visited the Louvre, was disappointed by La Gioconda and found works by Rafael Sanzio or Albrech Duhrer mire rewarding, but MOST people say it's the best painting ever because they are told so, and they know little about art. In the same way people who know little about music, need an expert (DJ) to tell them what is good, and of course SJ's will never recommend a Prog album, being that musical industry (who feeds them direct or indirectly) wants to sell their hot and more popular albums. In Perú Prog was terribly sold, until Frágil released the excellent Avenida Larco, being that there was pressure from the Pan Tel (The TV station that produced the album and If I'm not wrong the video), all DJ's talker wonders about this album. I'm sure most people didn't noticed the excellent keyboards or elaborate Symphonic structure, they simply bought it massively because the main song was about hookers, had a great video and experts said it was Good...........I wish all the Prog bands had this chance, Frágil deserves it, but people would not notice the difference between them and the artists being on the peak in 1980. 2.- Instant gratification: Most people see music as an instrument to have fan, call it dance, relax or being cool, they feel that any time spent on finding structures, influences or styles is wasted time, they just want catchy music they can enjoy instantly. We know Prog is not like that, in some cases you must listen an album 4, 7 or 10 times before you really love it (In my case Trespass took me several years), I don't imagine the average teenager making any effort to love some album, they just place it on the CD player and if doesn't capture them instantly, they throw the album. 3.- Status: Yep status, there's an axiom in school, you are as cool as the music you listen and the clothes you wear, if you listen music everybody loves, you will be considered cool, if you like this weird music nobody cares about, you'll probably be c0onsidered a geek. So if you want to be cool, proclaim to the four winds Prog is boring (This is not required, because few people know Prog, you just don't have to listen them). 4.- Time and age: Most of the older guys must have listened the phrase "What are you doing with that music?...ACT LIKE YOUR AGE!!!!!!!" Most people when reaching he 30's acquire a lot o responsabilities, including, work, family, mortgage, and music is only something to be listened during heir reunions as background or to relax,m they want anything but music i which they have to invest time, and Prog requires time. My 2 cents Iván -------------
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Posted By: Scoppioingola
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 11:17
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A very interesting thread. It made me remember a recent personal experience. I was hanging out with some friends last Friday, and one of them happens to be a fan of indie music. So he proceeds to make us listen to those bands he loves (which I find quite boring indeed, the repetitive riffs, the predictable hooks, the cringe worthy chorus repeated over and over...). After a while, I propose a piece of music which I find absolutely stunning : Fracture, by King Crimson. Ascending and descending arpeggios, the rude Wetton bass, the complex interplay between the violin and guitar at the climax, and of course, Bruford's brilliant drumming; the song has it all. In the first three minutes, all my companions had left me for another room in the house where they simply began to play this same old indie music, and it really made me think. I remember the first time I listened to Fracture, I hated it, like I hated most of Larks tongues and Red. And even thought your friends are music lovers, chances are, they won't bother trying to find what's so great about those weird sounds and complex structures, because those things sound so alien to them. Of course, King Crimson were always rather hard to swallow, but I'm pretty sure any other band from my prog collection would have done just the same effect to them. Just my two cents... |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 11:52
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A lot of people said that prog takes time to settle, it takes a wile, as brilliantly said by Gentle Giant, to Acquire the Taste. However, even those who claim to listen prog do not do that and the IVÁN's post fit this perfectly. For example, in the first topic he raised, entitled Manipulation, can be clearly seen here. How many albums get straight 5 stars or straight 1 star reviews/ratings just because of its hype? Yes, in my case, is a great example of that, because I LOVE Tales from Topographic Oceans and it has the worst rating among classic Yes albums. Obviously most people didn't took the time for that to settle in. Same, in terms, as with The Yes Album (my favorite Yes album). Instead, most people just rush a crappy 5 stars rating/review about Close to the Edge because of the hype. Same thing happens with Genesis's Selling England by the Pound and, for example, Lamb Lies Down and Nursery Crime, which are better albums than SEbtP, IMO. This can also be seen even more clearly in modern/recent releases. Most Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater and The Mars Volta are excellent, just as good or better than most of 70's releases and yet they are mercilessly bashed because people just think the 70's sound is straight better because other people say so. This takes us to the second topic raised by IVÁN, entitled Instant Gratification. Still using those three moderns giants with well-known acronyms, this becomes painfully evident, specially in TMV's case, because their music is so different from everything because it HAS a bit of everything, making them the only TRULY PROGRESSIVE band among the big modern ones, and yet their ratings are, to say the least, laughably discrepant with reality. So, instead of taking the time to appreciate anything new, it is easier just to listen something that reminds the long lost decade, which leads to INSTANT GRATIFICATION. In fact, it is less complicated for someone that already listens to prog to move to other genres of equally challenging music, but the fact is that prog, like most genres of popular music (here, popular music is used as the contrary of classical music), is bound to the same rules as the other genres: manipulation and instant gratification.
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Posted By: Wizbat
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 12:06
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I,ve noticed a change in what I like to call the musical IQ of the music listener compared to that of earlier times.
I was at a party a couple of years ago and after much imbibement of alcohol etc we all went back to our tents (camping in the back yard, Big party!!) and some of us put music on and I sat down to a bit of Journey, 'Raised on radio' and in the morning a few of my friends said that my music was too much for them and 'freaked them out'.
Now journey is not exactly as extreme or as technical as some music I listen to, I dread to think how they would,ve fared if I,d put on steve vai or Dream theater.
As most of them listen to dance, R&B and all that sh*te I have had to conclude that for whatever reason, these days, most people have less ability to understand anything more than the very basic musical arrangements.
Maybe it,s the air polution....
------------- My Band. www.limeshark.com BASS It is big and it is clever |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 12:36
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My theory is that people who find prog boring are boring people.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Kestrel
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:18
I largely agree with this. I even find myself doing the same thing: When a friend shows me a song and we're both sitting there listening to it, I tend not to care for it. I often need to listen to it on my own for me to really start to appreciate the music. I know my friends feel the same when I show them music. Also, a friend of mine who doesn't like prog said she doesn't like it because it's too dense. When she listens to music, she wants it to either not be a distraction from homework or a chance to cool down. Which I understand, but why not listen to music for music's sake? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:49
This. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:49
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what makes people find prog boring? easy... the 85% of modern prog that is complex... but has not a shred of progressiveness (ie.. a semblance of BEING interesting). Blame yourselves for that.. .you propagate the notion by rejecting or mocking suggestions that are progressive... but don't fit the stupid idea of prog= complex music. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:51
Micky - a one man Rebel Alliance |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:06
ahhahah.. you know how those stories always end.... with the rebel missing his head ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: dojonane
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 19:48
Off Topic I know, but: Talk to Bruce Dickinson about Van Der Graaf! Peter Hammill is a huge influence on his style (you can hear it clear as day) ------------- 
10 days travel by foot; http://www.pomade.tv/upperfriend" rel="nofollow - I Wait neath the skin |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 19:52
Definitely that!  |
Posted By: dojonane
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 19:52
Speaking of Boring, this whole 'Prog is by default pretentious' argument is *YAWN* What was I saying? Oh yeah, I'm almost certain that someone has to FEEL something deep in their bone marrow to widdle all the possible content and subject matter of what can come across in a song down to Dragons! And why isn't the manufactured Pop Dribble that is so obviously fabricated, focus group tested, test tube spawned and not even written by the 'talent' themselves never accused of being pretentious? As far as I'm concerned, if you're going out of your way to wear a cape on stage IN EARNEST, like it or not, it speaks to a genuine part of your character and what you find worthy of expression as an artist. -------------
10 days travel by foot; http://www.pomade.tv/upperfriend" rel="nofollow - I Wait neath the skin |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 20:30
. . . . Or destroying the Death Star. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 20:39
hahhaha.. that is Hollywood...... and since I just looked in the mirror and I haven't morphed into Brad Pitt, and can barely drive my truck straight much less a sleek starfighter, I would venture to say that this is no Hollywood. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 22:43
Ha, I bet it's more like 'freaking out' than 'dancing' though.
But yeah there are exceptions and you can certainly 'groove' to a lot of prog. I groove like a motherf**ker to Tarkus. |
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: August 11 2009 at 23:17
Perfect. Example, You may not enjoy KC's Thrak, but it is anything but boring.
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Posted By: Takeshi Kovacs
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 04:26
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I was playing Jacula last night and my daughter remarked that it was depressing church music!
-------------  Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/ |
Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 05:23
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If they think that complexity is boring, musical virtuosity is also boring and radio formated pop and mainstream music is all they like, who cares about their flat taste? Have they ever listen to Magma or Caravan or Egg for example? ------------- 
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Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 05:29
This is why I'm with girl who loves rock music and also a lot of prog rock. I grew up on listening rock, pop, electronic music (I'm 89), but finally I've came to prog music completely. Good for me, huh ? ------------- There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 05:49
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Good prog music contains consciousness, it has the ability to evoke emotion and in some cases make one more self aware, there's a spiritual experience with good music that many prog bands manage to capture , its not about preaching God but more about transcending deep into the sonic dreamscape freeing your mind your soul your body to heal and bath in the glory of mans creation .. to feel one .. Then there's pop it starts at the groin passes through several accountants and finishes at the groin .. deep |
Posted By: pepato
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 08:06
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Short answer: because IT IS boring. Well, some of it. Riverside above all. I'm joking, but not so much. I agree with your post and I quite find myself in there - with the difference that I'm not a teen, I began listening to prog when I was... 23? I don't count Dream Theater and likewise, of course. Prog is difficult music, by definition. Prog is often related to musicianship, so it's quite self-referring, solipstic, call it what you want, but it often deals more with the intellectual excitment ("how many strange notes can this guy do") than the emotional one ("my god, this song rocks/makes me cry/turns my guts upside down") And at last, of course, it's a matter of taste and mood. I used to dislike soft music when I was teenager, and listened only to metal. Now I'm more mature, and metal bores me while slower or mellower sounds agree with my spirit more. But the opposite also happens: I met a guy who listened to black metal when 14 years old, to prog when 17, and now he's a folk-punk guitarist. The strange paths of life. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 10:10
I find it quite stimulating and fresh to the ears, but of course we Jacula fans are a bit off our rocker.  ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 11:57
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I got it, the non-prog that has spread like disease through their minds. We haven't won yet, have we?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 12:04
If there is one thing Jacula isn't, it's church music, IMO. Have you guys seen/heard anything from Antonius Rex? It doesn't exactly evoke images of anything religious. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 12:27
Are you operating with the concept of the chakras (spiritual energy centres in the body) and expanding here from how music stimulates this depending on its structure, with more advanced types of music hence stimulating/unblocking higher levels of chakras?  Given that certain Yes albums are alleged to revolve around subject matter drawn from Eastern mysticism (Buddhism, to be exact) it is not exactly unlikely that this kind of illumination might have been part of their intent in their music! Here comes the really crazy thing is... a while ago I tried to read (didn't finish, though) a book about esoteric astrology, which is an attempt by Theosophists to update astrology to their beliefs and (then-)modern science. Theosophy already being a synchretic religion, the "glue" here was the concept of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_rays#Alice_A._Bailey - the Seven Rays as identified with radiation from different types of stars.  If you then introduce the Pythagorean concept of the music of the spheres, which conceives the universe as one gigantic chord with different... well, then you can link all this to Hawkwind's 1971-1975 infatuation with composing their music according to astrological principles as detailed in the booklets to the albums they made back then. Ironically, they're one of the less "cerebral" - certainly less scholary - and more mystical/Jungian-subconscious 1970s prog acts. Their song Seven by Seven certainly seems to concern the seven rays, and a lot of the lyrics to other songs they wrote then make more sense and have new layers of meaning when you have as much as a passing familiarity with Esoteric Astrology. (Hawkwind and Theosophy - upcoming Prog Blog? )Of course, if you ask me all this stuff with Chakras and Seven Rays is hogwash. I'm more of a Discordianism person.  HAIL ERIS! HAIL DISCORDIA! ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 12:47
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I agree with whoever said the usual complaint is that it's weird, not boring, they ask why can't they write a song straight instead of all these nonsensical changes. To be honest, that's what I felt when I heard Experience , my first Gentle Giant song and one of the first few prog rock songs I heard outside Dream Theater and Rush. I still don't PARTICULARLY know why Gentle Giant shouldn't write a straight up rock song instead of one with lots of twists and turns, except that I find the latter a lot of fun. And to partly answer micky, it's really got nothing to do with old or new prog. If anything, the organs, the big symph sound and theatrical vocals in old prog are more likely to turn off people than new prog. It's all a matter of taste, there's really nothing more to it and yet this topic resurrects itself in different hues all the time.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 13:22
And plenty of us here are ready to post on this topic until we go blue in the head. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 13:23
And plenty of us here are ready to post on this topic until we go blue in the head. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 13:51
That's why with my post I went for something different.  (now reply to it you dolts!) ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: SMSM
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 17:28
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As a member of Gentle Giant once stated that some Jazz was boring because you could have a 15 minute improvised piece, where only 3 minutes of music would sound good, the rest was irrelavent
Certain passages of progressive rock material have such "boring" improvisation, jamming or noodling
Some Flower Kings live cds contain this.
Y. Malmsteen guitar solos are often out of place in his music.
Or how about 10 minute guitar solos or drum solos in a middle of a song.
- I believe this is applicable to all types of music, but because progressive rock contains so many quality musicians, some take advantage to show off their chops in not the best way.
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Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 18:31
That's not far from th truth, I guess! ------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 18:37
I've got most of the Rex albums and enjoy most of them very much. I prefer Jacula over Rex, but the first Rex is similar to Jacula. The recent Rex comebacks are good but much slicker sounding. The whole occult thing is overblown if you ask me. Obviously they're into it. Whether they're serious or just showmen, don't know, don't care. Just love the music. I do know Mr Bartoccetti went to Catholic University. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Xanthous
Date Posted: August 12 2009 at 19:11
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Well I think that It's just how you're exposed to Prog. If you listen to some of the Proggier (Did I just say that?) stuff first you'll find it to be boring. You've got to let an unexposed mind slowly get into it. If you start off slowly with more prog-related music and drift there you'll be able to enjoy it better but if exposed full-out their may be mixed results. If someone doesn't like the first sample of what some call Prog,they'll find reasons to dislike it as a whole, without giving it a chance. Sorry if the post is all over the place, I can't seem to keep my thoughts relevant to the matters at hand.
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 03:28
I'd love to but it's 9am here and my brain doesn't wake up till 12
Edit: Re-read the post and noticed the bit about Seven by Seven - over here that was the B-side of the Silver Machine single. Re theosophy: wasn't it a theosophist who got Conan Doyle to believe in fairies? ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 04:20
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Doesn't sound unlikely. Theosophy was pretty popular back in the late 19th century, as a matter of fact Frank Baum was a Theosophist and there are lots of references to it in The Wizard of Oz. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Johnnytuba
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:58
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My guitar player in my band always busts my chops about Van Der Graaf Generator. He is heavily into the Seatlle movement, which I am too, but I prefer prog way much more. This year at my 30th birthday, he was making fun of the music I like so band, I wanted to punch him. The thing that bothers me is that this guy is so into music that he won't take a good listen to the music that I enjoy and that inspires me. Everytime I even want to play a Rush cover in my band I get laughed at. I think I am going to start playing music with more like-minded people. ------------- "The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow. Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go. |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:59
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People usually find it boring because most people can't sit and listen to one song for 30 minutes. The music is the least boring I've ever heard with all the contrasts, and stuff like that. People just get bored because of the length, not because of the music.
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 10:04
I have a new less sarcastic theory. Some people just have a hard time wrapping their minds around something complex, which tends to be a central characteristic of a lot of prog out there. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 14:16
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You know, this thread reminded me of when I played some Flower Kings for an old girlfriend years ago (she liked whatever was most popular and played most on modern radio). She said it was "too depressing". Uh.....what? The Flower Kings? Depressing?? Now, I realize that many on this board are not fond of the Flower Kings, but I don't imagine anyone would characterize their music as depressing (for those familiar with the band, I played her a few tunes from Retropolis, but no instrumentals). She also didn't like June, by Spock's Beard. I don't like it either, but I figured since I thought it was cheesy, repetitive, and downright annoying, she would love it But, of course, it wasn't "popular", so she couldn't possibly enjoy it.Anyway, I completely understand why people might not enjoy prog, and why they might find it boring (Micky makes some points I would have made). But who really cares? Only us proggers, judging by the persistence of these types of threads. (and like Slarttibartfast, I post in all of them ) |
Posted By: DRACCA
Date Posted: August 13 2009 at 15:11
There is a thin line between those who enjoy pop and commercial rock and those who are trend mongers. As Zappa would say:TREND MONGERS. It's difficult to make a clear analogy at times. In 1983 a band I was travelling with a band that played a Weather Report piece in front of a pop crowd. They gave us a standing ovation. But the club owner screamed at us for doing it and threatened to black ball us from the business. Zappa told a story of this one hippie who use to bring coffee and donuts to the executives at Warner Brothers. After asking the hippie his advice on how to rake in more money, he came up with a concept of making songs shorter and leaving out solos which is basically what happened and you know the rest. I remember kids in school bringing ELP albums in class. The type of kids who were into southern rock and hard rock. Things were a little more open then. I remember when ELP headlined California Jam. I think if you listen to Zappa's words you will have a better understanding as to why there are so many trend mongers today. ------------- INNER TEMPLE |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 03:44
In total agreement with the statement above. As I like to say, "boring people get bored." ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 07:28
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Interesting topic certainly with some genuinely thought provoking responses. It is however rather easy to fall victim to PA's own self fulfilling prophecy hereabouts i.e. the implication transparent in most responses to date that the masses are but goldfish/budgerigars without the capability to appreciate HIGH ART (Man) I certainly have never considered prog in any of its manifestations as high art but would hazard that there surely now exists a generation of consumers who perceive ALL music as a commodity/brand or as a soundtrack of their own choosing to a (SHARED) activity of their own choice. When I listened to prog it was a strictly non contact sport, played out in a darkened bedroom squinting at the esoterica afforded by the vinyl sleeves artwork. Perhaps pop music is COMMUNAL and prog just ain't ? ------------- 
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Posted By: DRACCA
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 08:08
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I am sorry floydispink. I totally messed up your quote. I shouldn't be on here without sleep. verslibre thank you for that supportive and unique opinion. I have to chicken out on this one. When you are in line at a concert and you have a progger in front of you and an Air Supply fan behind you and they are having a conversation about the weather, you may hope that the topic doesn't change to music. It's a real mousetrap and it's uncomfortable to be in the middle. It can be a social challenge for a prog head. Especially when you have aged quite a bit and you have now surpassed that emotionally charged desire to defend your music. However, this is an interesting thread by floydispink because it represents the detailed aspects socially of how proggers are rejected by fans of pop music. People that cringe with embarrassment when they hear Univers Zero playing in the background yet they are easily taken in by Bach. Which is fine because their child is performing a Bach piece and they must be supportive. Their child may say: Hey mom! listen to this theme song for my new movie. The child is watching a cute sci-fi film on dvd. The piece is right out of the Berlin school of electronic style and errie sounding. The mom is supportive of the child and the music that he is thrilled over. Dad then puts on Tangerine Dream (at low volume), and mom says: please take this off it's going to scare the kids. ???????? ------------- INNER TEMPLE |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 11:09
I once played "Several Species..." and my little brother said it was scary, when he was even younger he used to be scared of "Another Brick in the Wall, pt. 2". I guess the only way to get people to appreciate prog is to find something in x-over or prog related and eventually get them used to it. I think some people are scared away from it because of how different it is. |
Posted By: kingcrimson2003
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:35
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I find hard to understand people who listen to music which is made by a 'geezer farting around with a sampling desk with a tart yodeling over the top' (to quote John Payne formally of Asia), boring.
I often force some prog on my house mates with mixed response although I'm not sure they enjoyed the Isis I just played! They just asked for another though (can you believe?!), so I'm playing The Knife by Genesis.
Oh, one of them has just left the room!
Ah, he's come back!
------------- In the centre of the Sun is a Cadbury's Creme Egg and inside of that is a Ferrari FXX |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:41
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It's an inherent genetic flaw in their makeup. Don't fret too much over it and enjoy your priveleged status among the elite. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: DangerousCurves
Date Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:43
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They liked it people!
(I accidently logged in as my old user name in the previous post by the way
 ) |