A Meshuggah discussion
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59013
Printed Date: November 21 2024 at 18:29
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: A Meshuggah discussion
Posted By: aapatsos
Subject: A Meshuggah discussion
Date Posted: June 24 2009 at 13:11
This is not intended to be an appreciation thread as such, but I would not be surprised if it becomes one  The reason I wanted to discuss about this particular band is the mixed feelings I have after purchasing Nothing and Chaosphere. To be honest, I had listened to Chaosphere before and was not at all impressed - I was actually amazed at the rating in PA which seems to be quite high. In brief my initial views about these albums Chaosphere: as the title suggests, this album sounds like total chaos, too much noise and hardly any structure. Personally, I don't feel it will grow on me, but I will not stop listening to it until I get a more rounded opinion. Nothing: much more ''reasonable'' structure, ''cleaner'' riffs and more variations seem to create an interesting result. Feels like a more mature approach to the extreme metal side of things while the prog elements are still there. Looking forward to hear your views. Are Meshuggah in overall closer to the first or second description and/or do you agree with the comments for these albums. Feel free to recommend further albums and/or bash the thread creator |
Replies:
Posted By: brainerd
Date Posted: June 24 2009 at 18:44
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I kind of agree with you, Chaosphere is a bit messily put together in parts. The slightly (and I mean slightly) more diverse approach of the last few releases is an improvement. Some songs on ObZen also work as individual songs whereas most of the stuff from the late 90s onwards only really work in the context of the album, Catch 33 being the most obvious example seeing as it's meant to be all one track anyway.
Am I making sense? I'm probably too tired to be thinking about this sort of thing...
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: June 24 2009 at 18:48
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I'd say Chaosphere is their worst album between Destoy Erase Improve and the present. The production isn't the best and songs are very good, but definitely not consistently on par with their other work. I agree with your comments and highly recommend you take a look at the I Ep and Catch 33. They are very mature in songwriting and the production is great on both. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 12:53
thanks guys I will try to check them out 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 13:46
| If you think their songs don't have structure, you won't enjoy anything they have released. They aren't for everyone, so I wouldn't be surprised if you never found anything from them you liked. The point of their music isn't to be melodic or traditionally structured; it's to be rhythmic and trance-like. You can't go into a Meshuggah album expecting 4/4 time signatures and melodic singing about Tolkein-esque fantasy worlds. A lot of traditional prog is like that, but Meshuggah is a different breed altogether. |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 15:41
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^ I thought that in particular Chaosphere lacked structure but not really listened to it that many times to make a rounded opinion. Nothing sounded much more structured. Surely I would not expect any fantasy world and 4/4 signatures as you say - I can clearly understand that they are devoted in tech/extreme prog metal - need to check the rest of their releases anyway but thanks for your comments |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 16:52
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their songs may sound chaotic but they are so structured it makes most peoples head spin. if meshuggah is about anything,they are about structure. Thats where that whole "how do they play this" thing comes in. chaosphere is disjointed as an album and the songs arent as memorable as the songs off nothing or well... anything they've done. Favorite meshuggah album is probably catch 33, though I is pretty great too. I heard their rhythm guitarist (not thorendhal) say once that their songs were rhythmic exercises so i really enjoy that aspect of the music. i like picking it appart and attempting to disect the song, which is pretty fun. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 16:53
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but almost impossible
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 17:00
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I actually find Chaosphere to be their most interesting. The grooves are simply divine. If you wanna get into the album, just headbang a little bit to the ending of Sane or Neurotica.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 19:51
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Chaosphere was my first exposure to Meshuggah as well, and I didn't care for it. A few years later I decided to give them another shot and picked up catch thirtythr33. That's the one that hooked me. Since then I've picked up Nothing, I and obZen - all great discs, but catch thirtythr33 is still my favorite.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 21:05
Wow. I have the EXACT same story as you when it comes to my getting into their music. Spooky . . . |
zappaholic wrote:Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: June 25 2009 at 21:22
wow. I have the EXACT same story as BOTH of you when it comes to my getting into their music. Spooky . . . ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 08:03
wow... it seems my story would be exactly the same... spooky...  
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Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 08:19
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I really love Meshuggah, but it definitely took some time for me to fully "grok" their music. Firstly, I have friends that cover their songs. Listening to the individual instruments is quite remarkable, particularly the drums. Then, put those parts back together. Their music is yet another case of being "more than the sum of its parts." Seeing them live really sealed the deal. Great band and one of the most influential of the past two decades. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent"> 
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Posted By: avalanchemaster
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 11:29
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They are so much better live than on album.... that said, I find their I ep to be their best release. It is just the right length, has just the right changeups and keeps it intense from beginning to end. Catch 33 is somewhat boring imo. Chaosphere is excellent. so is Obzen. Nothing is almost too repititious for me. (yes I get the polyrhythmic interplay) The early material is a different beast all together... very thrashy. Well most of their stuff is somewhat thrashy, but just insanely complex rhythmically.... sort of like african polyrhythmic contortions... call them a love/hate band.... and Thordendahl's solos are just Allan Holdsworth ripoffs. also, the best related project is not a Meshuggah album at all, but the extremely rare "Fredrick Thordendahl's Special Defects- Sol Niger Within version 3.33" which features more diversity, better songs, and Saxophone in some songs.... like Meshuggah meets jazz.... good stuff for sure! ------------- http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sellerID=AP |
Posted By: Ben Enochian
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 12:00
This. CHAOSPHERE is majestic in my eyes, it's holds some amazing grooves and feels that still blow me away, almost 10 years after it came out. It's all a matter of taste and opinion, but this is one of my fave 3 albums of all time and there is not a bad song on the record that I skip when listening to it. I spent a few months working it all out when it first came out and thus became a much better player, simply by 'ape-ing' the styles of riffage that Fredrik and Martin utilise. ...oh, and Tomas can play drums a little bit too...  Live...they are amazing...as they are on record. I think the production of Chaosphere is chaotic, and it's meant to be that way. Daniel Bergstrand did a good job I think. ------------- www.enochiantheory.co.uk www.myspace.com/enochiantheoryband "Direction...what we need to achieve..." |
Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 12:20
that's not a fair assessment. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent">
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Posted By: avalanchemaster
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 13:33
I suppose it would offend your sensibilities less if I said that his solos are influenced by Holdsworth.... if you don't agree, well then I would have to question your exposure to Holdsworth.... ------------- http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sellerID=AP |
Posted By: moe_blunts
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 14:17
holdsworth is in a league of his own. really awkward guy, too, but he sure as hell can play. Fredrik's solos are more ripoffs of beebopjazz saxophone... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/moe_blunts/?chartstyle=minimalDarkRecent">
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Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 15:19
| Meshuggah personally, are a band I can appreciate for up to two minutes at a time, before it starts to hurt my brain. :) |
Posted By: Ben Enochian
Date Posted: June 26 2009 at 20:27
heheheheh I've heard the same thing from a few people. For sure...it is not easy listening, but heavy metal never is. As I said, and I'm sure a lot of people would agree...it truly is a matter of taste. As musicians, they are incredible...forging their own style and utterly destroying all preconceptions of how 'metal' should be played...yet, I can appreciate to the average listener that it is a bunch of noise. It's like marmite...you either love it...or you don't!  Personally, I adore them...they have constantly destroyed convention within a specific realm of 'metal' music...and will continue to do so. Yes, Fredrik worships at the throne of Allan Holdsworth...but let's face it, I had never heard of Allan until I heard Meshuggah and I can thank the nutty Swedes for introducing me to his work. If you came out the other way...then yes...Meshuggah would be a total headf**k for you... Everything leads from and to someting else...we have all enjoyed finding bands that have influenced our hero's, yes? And I think that is the true excellence of any band worth their salt. ------------- www.enochiantheory.co.uk www.myspace.com/enochiantheoryband "Direction...what we need to achieve..." |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 01:08
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Yeah, exactly. I love discovering bands that have influenced other bands I like. Hell, sometimes I'll even end up liking the inspiration more than those that receive it!
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: avalanchemaster
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 03:18
yep. pretty much says it all. However, I came upon Holdsworth in my jazz fusion exploring independently of Meshuggah, whom I had heard before Holdsworth. But isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery? Obviously Thordendahl loves Allan.... Meshuggah has inspired so many clones that it is ridiculous! when that many bands imitate the originator of a style, you know they have taken giant steps in the evolution of Metal.... ------------- http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sellerID=AP |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 03:28
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I look at things this way. You had Sabbath. You had the NWOBHM bands. You had thrash metal pioneers like Dave Mustaine and Metallica. You had Pantera who were hugely responsible for bringing groove metal to the world and have influenced sh*t tons of bands. Then you have Meshuggah, a band that like the aforementioned, totally f**ked with convention and brought something totally new to the table. Possibly one of most inventive metal bands ever and their influence on other bands is truly noticeable now. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ben Enochian
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 05:27
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Ok, so we all agree then. Lovely. We can lock this thread. hahaha  ------------- www.enochiantheory.co.uk www.myspace.com/enochiantheoryband "Direction...what we need to achieve..." |
Posted By: avalanchemaster
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 12:20
Yep. I just said that..... ------------- http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sellerID=AP |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 21:07
Yeah I know, but I said it better. -------------
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: June 27 2009 at 23:25
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I actually sort of prefer Nothing to Chaosphere, but it's like comparing chocolate and vanilla ice cream. Both are great, but ultimately people seem to choose chocolate over vanilla. ------------- 
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: June 28 2009 at 11:09
I´ve listened to Meshuggah since Contradictions Collapse was released and I remember being rather impressed by that one but even more by Destroy Erase Improve. I wasn´t a real fan at the time though. When Chaosphere were released I couldn´t get into it and I actually didn´t listen to Meshuggah for a couple of years after that. But when they were touring for Catch 33 I went to see them live. Just to see the beast in action and that was my eye opener. Seing them live totally blew me away. Brutal, technical, intense and hypnotic. After that concert I went back and began listening to all of their albums from an end and today Chaosphere and Nothing are probably my favorites. Chaosphere is just as structured as Nothing IMO but much faster paced and more inaccessible. I love that Meshuggah´s music are as inaccessble as it is. It means that the music is everlasting. There´s nothing worse than an album I can hum along to after having listened to it only once ( with exceptions of course I love Motörhead and AC/DC type of hardrock/ heavy metal too ).
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 02:46
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*This post lost its relevance* ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 09:54
Yes lets get back to talking about Meshuggah. Much more fun to be had there .
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 11:39
Hear, hear! file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTony%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - - Petrovsk Mizinski and file:///C:%5CUsers%5CTony%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml - - |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 12:14
Tony, you've linked to files in your C:, were you supposed to? 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 12:35
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 13:08
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Yes they are amazing to see live... they are tribal and their rhythms. I remember being almost literally hypnotized and by the end not realizing what had just happened. They are less brutal, but yet more brutal live... I can't describe. Their music doesn't feel as punishing. You just have to submit to it and let it do to you what it wishes. You can't listen to Meshuggah like you may other music or you certainly won't be able to appreciate it. Truly they are not evil or even brutal like other metal groups may be. Actually, to me they are not metal but rather in a genre of their own... like they have stated they are a mechanical execution of inhuman stretches of time signatures. They are a rhythm exercise, and should be regarded as such.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 29 2009 at 16:00
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